Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[TheSecretWeapon]

Missing the playoffs after the steps they've made the last two seasons would be a huge disappointment.

I twitched on this. I don't think the team really "took steps" the past couple season -- at least in the way these words are commonly used in sports parlance. "Took steps" suggests progress down a path toward something. But, when I look at the rosters, I see huge contributions toward these "steps" coming from older players and temps. The thinking from some was that the younger players would improve, the dependence on older guys would recede and the team could fill in around those younger guys who'd made the transition to young veterans.

Except, there was always something that felt fraudulent about it to me. Some of it was Leonsis bragging about the team having eight of its own draft picks on the roster a couple seasons ago when it was clear that three of them were total failures (Singleton, Vesely and Seraphin), that Rice, Porter and Beal were works in progress, that Booker was decent but oft-injured, and that Wall was the only one who'd established himself as a good NBA player. And, Leonsis was doing this bragging when anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the cap knew they weren't keeping several of these guys.

But, that "this is a fraud" feeling was more than Leonsis running his mouth. I think it boiled to an assessment of the team's moves and recognizing that they weren't adding good young players with their acquisition resources (or even potentially good young players) -- they were adding old guys and temps. I used the word "cynical" a few times, and I continue to think it fits. It felt to me like someone over there (I don't know whether it was Grunfeld or Leonsis or the two of them) figured they could get in the playoffs and create the illusion of a team building toward something. People bought it.

[dckingsfan]

Ted (fraud) Leonsis + Ernie (I can't draft) Grunfeld = cynical

[montestewart]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

(from the article) "The players mostly keep their noises clean"

Damn I miss hands!

[TGW]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

Well, he gave them a B+ or an A. What would the grade be if they actually won a championship? A super duper A+++++ for life seal of approval?

Here's one thing I have to say to that: Abe at least has a championship ring. He knew what success was like. Leonsis has no championship anywhere. So until Leonsis shows some hardware, then he's not on Abe's level as an owner.

[queridiculo]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

Everything is failing into places and is going according to plain. Don't forget the tremendous whole Grunfeld had to dig up from under because Abe tied Ernies head behind his back.

Just imagine you only have one hand, how can you swim against the stream?

It took some whiles, but there's no telling the hights Grunfeld will lift this franchise with full the support of a new owner.

[nuposse04]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/696752463827726336[/tweet]

I know he is probably alluding to coaching changes, but hopefully it is a package deal coming soon

[nate33]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/696752463827726336[/tweet]

I know he is probably alluding to coaching changes, but hopefully it is a package deal coming soon

I just hope this is based on actual insider info rather than merely common sense. We can all apply common sense and conclude that Ted should make some changes at the Trade Deadline (i.e. dump the veterans in exchange for future pieces). I don't know if Stein is merely speculating the same thing, or if he is actually hearing things from the front office.

[closg00]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/696752463827726336[/tweet]

I know he is probably alluding to coaching changes, but hopefully it is a package deal coming soon

The question becomes will Ted take the bait on a 3rd coaching change under Ernie? Or worse, will they pull some stupid ish trade-away of our lottery pick?

[nuposse04]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/696752463827726336[/tweet]

I know he is probably alluding to coaching changes, but hopefully it is a package deal coming soon

The question becomes will Ted take the bait on a 3rd coaching change under Ernie? Or worse, will they pull some stupid ish trade-away of our lottery pick?

I believe it is already obvious, definitely the latter

[LyricalRico]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

Good for him.

[FAH1223]

#FireGrunfeld

[queridiculo]

If Wittman gets fired the Wizards are doomed, because that can only mean that Grunfeld is going to be around to pick his successor.

[WizTom]

I can't even believe there are 14 pages of this thread, much less that it's Part 2, and there are 114(!!!) pages of this topic.

"Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here" should be a rather short discussion.

In summary, none.

The end.

[WizTom]

Missing the playoffs after the steps they've made the last two seasons would be a huge disappointment.

I twitched on this. I don't think the team really "took steps" the past couple season -- at least in the way these words are commonly used in sports parlance. "Took steps" suggests progress down a path toward something. But, when I look at the rosters, I see huge contributions toward these "steps" coming from older players and temps. The thinking from some was that the younger players would improve, the dependence on older guys would recede and the team could fill in around those younger guys who'd made the transition to young veterans.

Except, there was always something that felt fraudulent about it to me. Some of it was Leonsis bragging about the team having eight of its own draft picks on the roster a couple seasons ago when it was clear that three of them were total failures (Singleton, Vesely and Seraphin), that Rice, Porter and Beal were works in progress, that Booker was decent but oft-injured, and that Wall was the only one who'd established himself as a good NBA player. And, Leonsis was doing this bragging when anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the cap knew they weren't keeping several of these guys.

But, that "this is a fraud" feeling was more than Leonsis running his mouth. I think it boiled to an assessment of the team's moves and recognizing that they weren't adding good young players with their acquisition resources (or even potentially good young players) -- they were adding old guys and temps. I used the word "cynical" a few times, and I continue to think it fits. It felt to me like someone over there (I don't know whether it was Grunfeld or Leonsis or the two of them) figured they could get in the playoffs and create the illusion of a team building toward something. People bought it.

Here's what I can't understand: Why perpetrate this fraud? To what end? I mean, I understand if Leonsis ONLY wants to make money from his ownership of the team. They are probably doing that, having the team in the playoffs two years in a row while the Eastern Conference was historically bad. But doesn't he understand that he would make much more money if the team was really taking steps toward something, like, being competitive? Or, God forbid, challenging for a championship? I really don't get the intent, or motivation, or whatever the reason behind this BS we call the Washington Professional Basketball Team.

Don't these so-called professionals in the front office actually want to be good at their jobs? Can Leonsis really believe his own words?

Other than this, I am completely bored by the sheer suckitude of the Wizards... to the point that this is the only compelling thing about the team, i.e., "When is Leonsis going to wake up and get rid of EFG?"

[closg00]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

Good for him.

*Sniffle* I will share a little nugget from Hands recent post

Ted and EG has been rehydrating the sponge and stabilizing the franchise ever since the rebuild began in 2010 when Ted took over as owner.

Millie just can't carry water for Ernie the way Hands can

[payitforward]

...Missing the playoffs after the steps they've made the last two seasons would be a huge disappointment. And even squeaking into the playoffs to be first round fodder, while better than nothing, would still fall well short of expectations. But I actually don't think it hinges as much on playoffs as it does winning the Durant sweepstakes. Because if we miss the playoffs this year but end up with Durant over the summer, then the overall plan was still a success IMO.

However, if they regress as a team AND they don't get Durant this summer, then a multi-year team building plan has failed and there should be consequences. (I posted in another thread that the OKC cap situation and the new 1+1 superstar contract trend could push the Durant sweepstakes to 2017, but Ernie put all his eggs in the 2016 basket so IMO we have to judge him by that.) Plus if you're going to make a change, the amount of cap space the team would have this summer makes the timing ideal for taking things in a new direction.

So if we wind up this summer with no Durant and a team that has taken a step back, even I couldn't justify not going with a fresh start in the front office. So KD, do the right thing!

A thoughtful response. Thank you.

Thing is... if your "overall plan" can only be "a success" if Kevin Durant chooses to play for you, then you have a bad plan. I would hope I don't have to explain the truth of that statement.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Missing the playoffs after the steps they've made the last two seasons would be a huge disappointment.

I twitched on this. I don't think the team really "took steps" the past couple season -- at least in the way these words are commonly used in sports parlance. "Took steps" suggests progress down a path toward something. But, when I look at the rosters, I see huge contributions toward these "steps" coming from older players and temps. The thinking from some was that the younger players would improve, the dependence on older guys would recede and the team could fill in around those younger guys who'd made the transition to young veterans.

Except, there was always something that felt fraudulent about it to me. Some of it was Leonsis bragging about the team having eight of its own draft picks on the roster a couple seasons ago when it was clear that three of them were total failures (Singleton, Vesely and Seraphin), that Rice, Porter and Beal were works in progress, that Booker was decent but oft-injured, and that Wall was the only one who'd established himself as a good NBA player. And, Leonsis was doing this bragging when anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the cap knew they weren't keeping several of these guys.

But, that "this is a fraud" feeling was more than Leonsis running his mouth. I think it boiled to an assessment of the team's moves and recognizing that they weren't adding good young players with their acquisition resources (or even potentially good young players) -- they were adding old guys and temps. I used the word "cynical" a few times, and I continue to think it fits. It felt to me like someone over there (I don't know whether it was Grunfeld or Leonsis or the two of them) figured they could get in the playoffs and create the illusion of a team building toward something. People bought it.

Here's what I can't understand: Why perpetrate this fraud? To what end? I mean, I understand if Leonsis ONLY wants to make money from his ownership of the team. They are probably doing that, having the team in the playoffs two years in a row while the Eastern Conference was historically bad. But doesn't he understand that he would make much more money if the team was really taking steps toward something, like, being competitive? Or, God forbid, challenging for a championship? I really don't get the intent, or motivation, or whatever the reason behind this BS we call the Washington Professional Basketball Team.

Don't these so-called professionals in the front office actually want to be good at their jobs? Can Leonsis really believe his own words?

Other than this, I am completely bored by the sheer suckitude of the Wizards... to the point that this is the only compelling thing about the team, i.e., "When is Leonsis going to wake up and get rid of EFG?"

One theory could be that it was Grunfeld patching things together to keep his job. When Leonsis stated his goals for the team publicly, they didn't seem very worthwhile. And his comments about the players (in his blog and to reporters) indicated either ignorance or dishonesty. I was amazed that Grunfeld was permitted to trade a first round pick for Gortat AND keep his job. The need for the trade was evidence of malpractice.

It could be that there was a melding of goals: Grunfeld keeping his job, and Leonsis wanting to sell more tickets, get an infusion of cash, and be able to pay off everyone who needed paying off.

Or, it could be garden variety incompetence.

[payitforward]

Hands11 hasn't left your side Rico, he's got Ernie's back.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/1/25/10826852/grade-the-health-of-the-wizards-franchise

Good for him.

*Sniffle* I will share a little nugget from Hands recent post

Ted and EG has been rehydrating the sponge and stabilizing the franchise ever since the rebuild began in 2010 when Ted took over as owner.

Millie just can't carry water for Ernie the way Hands can

Well... Hands is dyslexic, as we all remember. So no point in critiqueing his writing in this post.

The content of his post is... what's the right word? Maybe best to just call it "silly." He can and does put a positive spin on just about everything. And all negatives have external un-preventable causes.

I thought the final comment on the thread of the post was definitive. Someone wrote:

"Wizards a C, Post gets a D for Delusional
If Wiz are an A, how do you rate the teams that are actually good?"

[payitforward]

...It could be that there was a melding of goals: Grunfeld keeping his job, and Leonsis wanting to sell more tickets, get an infusion of cash, and be able to pay off everyone who needed paying off.

Or, it could be garden variety incompetence.

Ted issued his 10 point plan -- "build through youth and the draft... win a title eventually... blah blah blah." We sucked; Ernie blew the 2011 draft; we sucked again... the fans were growing restive. And then...

...Ted blinked. He issued new instructions: "mediocre or bust." We were all in for looking like we were going somewhere and even, wow of wows, making the playoffs. Which half the teams in the league do!

The rest was, as you say "garden variety incompetence" -- but, keep in mind some people are really good gardeners. Their incompetence blooms early and late and flowers forever. That's how you turn nearly 20 draft picks into 4 players. How you take on $28m in salary to get 2000 minutes (out of Okafor), etc. etc. etc.

That's not some incompetence weed growing listlessly by the side of the road, that's the true stink of hothouse incompetence, Blue-Ribbon-Winning prize incompetence!

[montestewart]

Pile on!

...When I look at these rosters, the word that keeps coming to mind for Ernie Grunfeld: charlatan.

I understand why it would. But in fact, I don't think that's what it is. I just think he is altogether out of touch w/ how you acquire talent.

He's from the era when pretty much all GMs were ex-players. They tended to over-value veterans, to have no theory of valuation, i.e. no perspective over time and potential for development, and to rely on "the eye test" (and a pretty basic version of it at that) as opposed to numbers.

As a result, they have (i.e. Ernie in particular has) no real way to predict future results, and no way to measure themselves against other GMs. Failure always seems like a surprise, and chance always seems to be working against them. E.g. injuries and so forth.

Moreover, when chance *helps* them -- as in Session's surprising play this year and Butler's early last season -- they don't see chance or hazard at work; they don't think they got lucky, instead they think it means they "can really pick 'em." Which reinforces their belief in the eye test, etc.

When the whole league worked this way, and basically all GMs were ex-players, a few still stood out. Mostly, they were brilliant horse-traders like Red Auerbach (I'll never forget when he traded Al Attles, the GM of the then-my-team Warriors, the #1 pick in the 1980 draft for the #3 pick and Robert Parish!).

Ernie doesn't have the tools to compete w/ the top GMs in the NBA. Worse yet, he doesn't believe those tools exist!

Imagine where we'd be had the ping pong balls not given us an overall #1 and an overall #3 pick! Scary huh?

Great explanation of why EG can't