2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

[tski1972]

If if's and but's were candy and nuts...

[Johnlac1]

If Uthoff stayed at UW.. we might have 2 national championships. He developed later, but I think under Bo, he would have challenged Duje for minutes. He could have been another solid 6th/7th man. Still a horrible decision on his part.

He's leading the Big Ten in scoring on a top 5 team. I think he's fine with his decision.

In season rankings aren't the end all be all when everything is considered. The Badgers were first overall within the past two years.

Wisconsin had a much better surrounding cast to fill around Uthoff.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... I'm indifferent. The last two years were amazing from a fans's perspective.

"The last two years were amazing from a fans's perspective." Yes. Wisconsin came very close to being a two years in a row nat. champ. Truly amazing seasons.

[Johnlac1]

If Uthoff stayed at UW.. we might have 2 national championships. He developed later, but I think under Bo, he would have challenged Duje for minutes. He could have been another solid 6th/7th man. Still a horrible decision on his part.

Or maybe Wisconsin misses out on one or both of those Final Four berths because Uthoff changes the dynamics of what exactly did happen in either or both of those tournament runs. There were some close wins each year.

That's also the rub of saying if only X player was with a team who made a really deep run in the NCAA Tournament, but came up just a game or two short.

Sure there is the chance that this one player could have helped the team win it all, but it's also possible that the player could have changed the dynamics of what exactly did happen in a way which contributed to a loss before reaching the Final Four, even if you are hypothetically adding a good player to the mix.

True. I won't casually discard dynamics/chemistry. But the facts are the more good/excellent players you have, the better your chances. I can't believe Bo wouldn't have figured out a way to use Uthoff with the others. Not only offensively, but defensively he was superior to Dukan. And Duje did a real good job for the team. However, we'll never know.
The team came so close two years in a row, it's hard not to wonder what things would have been like with Uthoff. Maybe you're right, the chemistry might have been disrupted. But I wish he'd stayed. What a front line.

[Kerb Hohl]

If Uthoff stayed at UW.. we might have 2 national championships. He developed later, but I think under Bo, he would have challenged Duje for minutes. He could have been another solid 6th/7th man. Still a horrible decision on his part.

Or maybe Wisconsin misses out on one or both of those Final Four berths because Uthoff changes the dynamics of what exactly did happen in either or both of those tournament runs. There were some close wins each year.

That's also the rub of saying if only X player was with a team who made a really deep run in the NCAA Tournament, but came up just a game or two short.

Sure there is the chance that this one player could have helped the team win it all, but it's also possible that the player could have changed the dynamics of what exactly did happen in a way which contributed to a loss before reaching the Final Four, even if you are hypothetically adding a good player to the mix.

True. I won't casually discard dynamics/chemistry. But the facts are the more good/excellent players you have, the better your chances. I can't believe Bo wouldn't have figured out a way to use Uthoff with the others. Not only offensively, but defensively he was superior to Dukan. And Duje did a real good job for the team. However, we'll never know.
The team came so close two years in a row, it's hard not to wonder what things would have been like with Uthoff. Maybe you're right, the chemistry might have been disrupted. But I wish he'd stayed. What a front line.

Generally, my thought is that if you have a #20ish team, I'd buy the argument of "if only we had X player. We might be top 5." Over the course of the season or saying that you could make a run makes plenty of sense in that case.

The issue here, and where I agree is El Dude, is not even a chemistry thing or "would he put us over the top?" We already know in hindsight that they made the championship and nearly won it. Everything was already perfect. Might they have been an even better #1 seed with Uthoff? Probably. Over the course of the season I agree.

However, again, since we already know they made the title game. Now you're just looking at one game here or there. Would Uthoff have been the difference in the championship? I have no idea. Uthoff just shot like 2-13 against Maryland. He could have had a terrible game making it worse. Maybe against UNC they go to Uthoff off the bench instead of Showalter. That sounds silly, but Showalter won that game for them. Maybe Uthoff doesn't make those plays. We have no idea in those cases.

It sounds funny to say that adding a soon-to-be All American player might have made things worse, but we're talking about one game here or there maybe changing. When they were already the national runner up and outplayed Duke for a large percentage of the game, it's hard to know if adding a player would have made a 99% perfect scenario into 100%.

Would the Packers have won the Super Bowl in 2010 with Al Harris or Ryan Grant? You'd think they'd have made them a better team. But we're talking about a handful of plays. Maybe Harris blows a coverage in the SB or a playoff game.

[El Duderino]

Generally, my thought is that if you have a #20ish team, I'd buy the argument of "if only we had X player. We might be top 5." Over the course of the season or saying that you could make a run makes plenty of sense in that case.

The issue here, and where I agree is El Dude, is not even a chemistry thing or "would he put us over the top?" We already know in hindsight that they made the championship and nearly won it. Everything was already perfect. Might they have been an even better #1 seed with Uthoff? Probably. Over the course of the season I agree.

However, again, since we already know they made the title game. Now you're just looking at one game here or there. Would Uthoff have been the difference in the championship? I have no idea. Uthoff just shot like 2-13 against Maryland. He could have had a terrible game making it worse. Maybe against UNC they go to Uthoff off the bench instead of Showalter. That sounds silly, but Showalter won that game for them. Maybe Uthoff doesn't make those plays. We have no idea in those cases.

Yep

Take that great Elite 8 game vs Arizona for example. What if Uthoff is on the court late and instead of Dekker making some of those great dagger shots, Uthoff shoots instead and misses??

There are a vast array of scenarios which could change for the better or worse if you hypothetically could replay a game or games by adding a player to the mix. Besides all of that, Iowa plays a different brand of basketball compared to what Bo Ryan did. Who knows if Uthoff would have developed the same under Bo, along with the time frame of that development.

[Turk Nowitzki]

LETS GOOOOOO!

Finish strong!

[MickeyDavis]

Good game Bucky.

[Turk Nowitzki]

They are playing themselves back into the tournament conversation, that's for sure. Still work to do, but significantly less work than a month ago. Keep it up Bucky!

[sidney moncrief]

They are playing themselves back into the tournament conversation, that's for sure. Still work to do, but significantly less work than a month ago. Keep it up Bucky!

Still the four tough road games @MD, MSU, Iowa, and Purdue but I think it's more likely they steal at least one of those than lose all four. If they can take all the other winnable games on the schedule that gets them to 11-7 in conference which should be enough.

[Nebula1]

That was good to see and this team is coming together. Were those throwbacks tonight?

[MikeIsGood]

Throwbacks for the next month in honor of Black History Month, specifically honoring Bill Cofield. I had no idea he was the first African American coach in the B10.

[StickeeFingaz]

Yea the uni's were great. Quite interested in what UA will have for us next year. I think we need at least one big road win (maybe two) against Maryland, MSU, Iowa, or Purdue to get in.

[Bernman]

Another quality road win, while winning all the rest of the games we should, would be the clincher, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. We won at Syracuse and on a neutral against VCU. So there are some quality neutral/road wins already there for a bubble team. Then we'll have another chance for a good last impression in the BTT. Win in the first rd against a virtual pushover, and the 2nd against a quality team, that would be 20 wins, and highly likely to get the job done. Win 1 and then lose, I think it's about 50/50 on fairness w/ 19 wins, our kind of resume, and last impression.

I think we might have a little hidden advantage with our name and performance the last 2 years. We got in the tourney in '06 and '09 with borderline resumes to keep this streak alive. I didn't think the '06 appearance was deserved, let alone for us to be a 9-seed. We fell apart after all the attrition, and were dead in the water come tourney time, which showed when we got blasted in the 1st rd vs. a down Arizona team.

REALLY don't want to see a year in the NIT. That's complete irrelevance. Forgot what that's like. I'd rather be last in the NCAA tourney than win the NIT. That dead atmosphere is a soul crusher.

I don't think we'd be in this position if not for the Van Vliet fleecing. Lost plenty of close games, many on one or more of lack of length, shooting, and depth; which he likely would have provided. An article was just written about how he's up to 220 now, and weight was the main concern. Not trusting Hill with back-up minutes earlier just looks like a self-inflicted mistake.

[Kfatm2711]

Another quality road win, while winning all the rest of the games we should, would be the clincher, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. We won at Syracuse and on a neutral against VCU. So there are some quality neutral/road wins already there for a bubble team. Then we'll have another chance for a good last impression in the BTT. Win in the first rd against a virtual pushover, and the 2nd against a quality team, that would be 20 wins, and highly likely to get the job done. Win 1 and then lose, I think it's about 50/50.

They were at home.

[Kfatm2711]

Nevermind I read that wrong.

[DingleJerry]

If they win the 'easy' games in Nebraska and MN and the home tough game vs Michigan that puts them at 9 wins. Just get one of the tough road games, one win in the B1G tourney and you're for sure in. Win 2 of the tough road games and you're for sure in. Don't win any of them and it's really questionable, wouldn't feel comfortable without two wins in the B1G then

[Kerb Hohl]

Well, no Shields tonight. Get this one and show up reasonably well down the stretch.

[DingleJerry]

In my previous post I forgot another 'easy' game at home vs ILL. Get all those and you're 10-8 in a tough conference. Really that should be enough, unless a suprise loss to a crap team in the B1G tourney.

[Kerb Hohl]

In my previous post I forgot another 'easy' game at home vs ILL. Get all those and you're 10-8 in a tough conference. Really that should be enough, unless a suprise loss to a crap team in the B1G tourney.

I may be a bit biased, and this is full-well knowing that they have 2 or 3 terrible losses on the schedule, but I am a bit surprised by the bracketologists not being too excited about 10-8 getting them in.

Part of it has to do with the fact that there is so much parity, that the bubble is going to just be littered with teams that have a similar record and everyone is going to have a few "big" wins with all of the softer teams in the top 10.

All of that said, this team just looks worthy (barring collapse) now and I feel like they'll be selected over some of the other fodder that is sitting on the bubble if they can get to 10-8.

A nice win would erase some of those early season sins, but even though the committee won't admit putting less weight on the early season, this seems to be a case where they objectively will somewhat waive the trash loss to WIU given the early season circumstances and how they look now.

[DingleJerry]

Totally agree. 10-8, with down to the wire games against MD, IND, Purdue already. If they somehow knock of one upper level team to go 11-7 it's a done deal. Throw in back to back FF, the early season coaching stuff, also the two horrible losses and Marq we have were all last second games too. 10-8 and a win in conf tourney should do it. Hopefully we get a win in the first round at least, call it a good season and give Gard the job.