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Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG

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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#41 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:50 pm

ctorres wrote:Anyone in here familiar with BJ Armstrong's skill set, style of play, and talent level from the '93 through '95 seasons when he was the starting PG for those Bulls teams coached by Phil?

I've only looked at a few YouTube highlights and stats, but BJ Armstrong seems like the most "modern" PG to play within the triangle.

I don't want to use Gary Payton as an example because he admittedly struggled with the triangle and only played in it for one year.

Any other PG's under Phil were either guys in the twilight of their career (Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw) or guys who on any other squad were either reserves or not even NBA-caliber players (Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar, Smush Parker).

BJ Armstrong had 3 years of strong play with the Bulls from '93 through '95 and one pretty solid season with the Warriors in '96. However, by '97 (his 8th season in the league at 29 years old), his production had drastically diminished.

Nevertheless, during the 4 solid years I referenced, BJ Armstrong's production seems comparable to what you'd ideally get from a Mike Conley, Brandon Knight, J'rue Holiday, Goran Dragic, or even Darren Collison playing in the triangle. Their numbers would potentially be decent enough to justify their salaries, and also appease each player in the sense of allowing them to have an important role on a good team without having to completely sacrifice their individual stats.

However, I would not expect the same type of production from a high assist/ball dominant PG like a Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio, John Wall, etc.

Judging on his athleticism from YouTube highlights as well as his ridiculously good FG percentages, I am assuming that BJ Armstrong was much more talented than the likes of a Mario Chalmers-caliber point guard.

To put it short, could anyone in here just tell me how good BJ Armstrong was and if it's realistic to target a PG that plays like him? If anything, I may go into the Bulls thread to ask them about him.


Remember Charlie Ward? My recollection of BJ Armstrong is of him being not much better than that, maybe a little bit better on the drive his first few years.

Jordan and Pippen were the "Point Guards" of those teams. Phil isn't a moron, he adjusts to the players he has. He had two guys, 6'6" or taller, who could pass the sh*t out of the ball, among other things.

That left filling the PG position with someone who first strength was shooting. BJ Armstrong was probably the most "well rounded" PG, followed by Paxson, then Kerr, who was basically a SG in a PG body.

For God's sake (pun intended), I'd take Charlie Ward right now, and he really was only ever just adequate as PG. Yes, he played hard D, but really, he was just average at best.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#42 » by Dr. Detfink » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:04 pm

Eric Bledsoe. Accept no substitute.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#43 » by JXL » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:07 pm

Dr. Detfink wrote:Eric Bledsoe. Accept no substitute.


As much as I would love to get Bledsoe, his contract plus his injury history doesn't inspire confidence.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#44 » by Polk377 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:18 pm

The Knicks need a PG that can penetrate a defense and on the other end defend the pick and roll. The problem is that Calderon is terrible at both. You just can't get away with poor PG play in this league now. Unfortunately it doesn't look like one will be available to them via trade so we will have to wait until Free Agency.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#45 » by Dantares » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:16 pm

JXL wrote:
Dr. Detfink wrote:Eric Bledsoe. Accept no substitute.


As much as I would love to get Bledsoe, his contract plus his injury history doesn't inspire confidence.


but his injury was meniscus. I think that is actually a knee surgery that players seem to recover from 100%.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#46 » by Red Vines » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:53 pm

Context wrote:what veteran point guard was out there Red?


There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#47 » by Tennyten » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:56 pm

Someone who can throw a decent alley would be nice. KP is constantly trying to go back door but all our passes are a step slow or non existent.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#48 » by nykinoz » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:02 pm

I'd love to see Patty Mills on the Knicks, Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi !!
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#49 » by ctorres » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:17 pm

Red Vines wrote:
Context wrote:what veteran point guard was out there Red?


There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.


Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.

I wonder what it was about Jeremy Lin's game that Phil just didn't like. Unless it was inevitable that Linsanity Part II would have been too much of a distraction, I guess Lin is way too turnover prone for Phil's liking. For whatever it's worth, Calderon is ranked third in the entire league for assist-to-turnover ratio, whereas Lin is ranked 57th. Galloway and Grant would also rank pretty high for assist-to-turnover ratio if they racked up enough assists to be eligible.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#50 » by NYKAL » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 pm

guys must have forget that as bad as things are, they were far worse when Calderon couldn't hit a shot at the beginning of the season. His inability to stretch the floor was a huge problem for us. Now, some are suggesting bringing in someone that shoots worse than Calderon did during his slump?
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#51 » by vincccent » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:24 pm

ctorres wrote:
Red Vines wrote:
Context wrote:what veteran point guard was out there Red?


There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.


Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.

I wonder what it was about Jeremy Lin's game that Phil just didn't like. Unless it was inevitable that Linsanity Part II would have been too much of a distraction, I guess Lin is way too turnover prone for Phil's liking. For whatever it's worth, Calderon is ranked third in the entire league for assist-to-turnover ratio, whereas Lin is ranked 57th. Galloway and Grant would also rank pretty high for assist-to-turnover ratio if they racked up enough assists to be eligible.


Maybe it's simple: when you doesn't penetrate, nobody can strip the ball away.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#52 » by Red Vines » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:26 pm

ctorres wrote:
Red Vines wrote:
Context wrote:what veteran point guard was out there Red?


There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.


Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.



Because he got injured.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#53 » by Supreme 33 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:28 pm

Michael Carter-Williams is the guy I'd target at this point.

Big, young and could still develop a more consistent jumpshot.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#54 » by Coeur » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:35 am

Supreme 33 wrote:Michael Carter-Williams is the guy I'd target at this point.

Big, young and could still develop a more consistent jumpshot.

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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#55 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:50 am

vincccent wrote:
ctorres wrote:
Red Vines wrote:
There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.


Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.

I wonder what it was about Jeremy Lin's game that Phil just didn't like. Unless it was inevitable that Linsanity Part II would have been too much of a distraction, I guess Lin is way too turnover prone for Phil's liking. For whatever it's worth, Calderon is ranked third in the entire league for assist-to-turnover ratio, whereas Lin is ranked 57th. Galloway and Grant would also rank pretty high for assist-to-turnover ratio if they racked up enough assists to be eligible.


Maybe it's simple: when you doesn't penetrate, nobody can strip the ball away.

This is dumb if true. Just get Lin and tell him to not to penetrate as much. Going into the season with Calderon as the starter is inexcusable.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#56 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:42 am

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
vincccent wrote:
ctorres wrote:
Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.

I wonder what it was about Jeremy Lin's game that Phil just didn't like. Unless it was inevitable that Linsanity Part II would have been too much of a distraction, I guess Lin is way too turnover prone for Phil's liking. For whatever it's worth, Calderon is ranked third in the entire league for assist-to-turnover ratio, whereas Lin is ranked 57th. Galloway and Grant would also rank pretty high for assist-to-turnover ratio if they racked up enough assists to be eligible.


Maybe it's simple: when you doesn't penetrate, nobody can strip the ball away.

This is dumb if true. Just get Lin and tell him to not to penetrate as much. Going into the season with Calderon as the starter is inexcusable.


Lin? That ship sailed as far as Dolan is concerned.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#57 » by ibraheim718 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:29 am

If you're looking for a pure triangle fit at the 1 the best guy to go get would be Avery Bradley.
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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#58 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:39 am

anotherhomer wrote:
JoeypopsNY wrote:Honestly phil has no idea what he is doing.. Wow he drafted porzingis... oh wait that was his scout.


ya, phil made some questionable choices like there were other better PGs than jerian Grant, but you know what, he's better then other GMs that helm new york knicks


He is not the GM.


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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#59 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:47 am

moocow007 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
NYKnicksTAPE wrote:I honestly don't know what he can do right now. We don't have the assets to trade for a good PG. They're talking about Victor Oladipo being involved in a trade for Teague, we're talking about offering up dudes like Grant or Afflalo and a 2018 protected 1st...

So many teams can beat our offers...we don't have many valuable pieces. Maybe we can swing a trade for MCW :dontknow:

In FA, I don't see Conley coming here, Rondo's not coming here, Lin's most likely not coming here. Who else is out there?

Real talk, we might not get a good PG until 2017 FA. There's going to be so many PG's available then, we're bound to get one of them


Knowing us we'll sign more centers.

It's not just PJax. We have been assuming that band aids would be good enough for decades now. The one time we tried, we got Marbury.

So yeah, no hope


Marbury was worth the risk IF...and that was the problem...the GM had the whits to be able to get other players around him to do anything. The best player Marbury had was 1.5 years of an effective Eddy Curry. That was like a broken Amare Stoudemire for Carmelo Anthony. Hopefully at least Porzingis becomes the real deal.

Houston was supposed to be the other guy to Marbury but he got injured and had to retire soon after Marbury got there and it was Hell ever since.


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Re: Phil won't admit this: He needs a modern PG 

Post#60 » by prophet_of_rage » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:49 am

ctorres wrote:
Red Vines wrote:
Context wrote:what veteran point guard was out there Red?


There were a lot of cheap options that could help. We could've got CJ Watson for 5 mil.


Watson only played the first 8 games this season. He has been inactive since then.

I wonder what it was about Jeremy Lin's game that Phil just didn't like. Unless it was inevitable that Linsanity Part II would have been too much of a distraction, I guess Lin is way too turnover prone for Phil's liking. For whatever it's worth, Calderon is ranked third in the entire league for assist-to-turnover ratio, whereas Lin is ranked 57th. Galloway and Grant would also rank pretty high for assist-to-turnover ratio if they racked up enough assists to be eligible.

Phil doesn't like one person creating offence. He wants the ball to flow and move. That forces everybody to create at their spot.


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