2015/2016 Miami Heat Is it the Players or the Coach?

[QUIZ]

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

[QUIZ]

Spoiler:

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

For people who don't want to read all of that the main questions:

why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he'd be averaging close to 20ppg at that fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

[RexBoyWonder]

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10 ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

It's not complicated - It's shooting.

We have none. 3 point shooting and spacing is the bread and butter of todays league. You don't win without it.

In the 90's, you couldn't win without toughness and elite defense.

Rules changed, the game changed, the players changed, the style changed. We're a horse carriage in the motorized age. You can't have the best horse in the world, you'll still lose.

It's very fixable, we need to get with the times. Add to our core the best shooting and spacing possible, WE WILL LOOK COMPELTLYDIFFERENT OUT THERE.

Dragic
Wade
Batum/Fouriner
R.Anderson
Bosh

It's an all different ballgame.

Edit : that automatically will speed up our pace. Also Adding an offensive assistant coach should Help, Spo isn't showing much even with the less then ideal fit we have.

[QUIZ]

It's not complicated - It's shooting.

We have none. 3 point shooting and spacing is the bread and butter of todays league. You don't win without it.

In the 90's, you couldn't win without toughness and elite defense.

Rules changed, the game changed, the players changed, the style changed. We're a horse carriage in the motorized age. You can't have the best horse in the world, you'll still lose.

It's very fixable, we need to get with the times. Add to our core the best shooting and spacing possible, WE WILL LOOK COMPELTLYDIFFERENT OUT THERE.

Dragic
Wade
Batum/Fouriner
R.Anderson
Bosh

It's an all different ballgame.

I already talked about that Rex. Go check out their roster: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2016.html

They don't have 3pt shooters, they encourage average and below average guys to chuck. That is not a valid excuse its just a crappy cop out.

Isaiah Thomas career 36% 3pt shooter on 4.5 attempts they're encouraging him to shoot more 3's and he's hitting them at 35%.

Avery Bradley career 36% shooter on 3 attempts per game. Same thing they're encouraging him to shoot a high volume.

Joe Crowder career 32% guy on 2.8 attempts. Same thing encouraging him to shoot more and he's at 35%

[Bishop45]

Spoiler:

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

For people who don't want to read all of that the main questions:

why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he'd be averaging close to 20ppg at that fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Yes Quiz, you're heading in the right direction

More prominent question: Why are we worse offensively this year with the same coach, and better offensive players?

[eddieheatfan]

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10 ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

coaching is putrid.there's little to no planning and our offense suffers because of it.you just can give the ball to wade and boshy all the time because these players cant carry or arent willing to carry a team anymore while risking a serious injury.our defense look good at times but there are times when players get lost or sleep and some will even stay behind a play because he is complaining about a perceived ball call...oh and there's plenty of hero ball from the stars and everyone else you can rarely see them sharing the ball and look for the open man then we have our shooters that can get hot for one quarter and get bitter cold from another.also substitutions are a pain in the rear because you rarely see any of the two "super stars" playing whole quarters and you can see them often being gassed out their minds after a few minutes of play..and so on and on and on

[RexBoyWonder]

It's not complicated - It's shooting.

We have none. 3 point shooting and spacing is the bread and butter of todays league. You don't win without it.

In the 90's, you couldn't win without toughness and elite defense.

Rules changed, the game changed, the players changed, the style changed. We're a horse carriage in the motorized age. You can't have the best horse in the world, you'll still lose.

It's very fixable, we need to get with the times. Add to our core the best shooting and spacing possible, WE WILL LOOK COMPELTLYDIFFERENT OUT THERE.

Dragic
Wade
Batum/Fouriner
R.Anderson
Bosh

It's an all different ballgame.

I already talked about that Rex. Go check out their roster: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2016.html

They don't have 3pt shooters, they encourage average and below average guys to chuck. That is not a valid excuse its just a crappy cop out.

You cant' teach old dogs new tricks. Most of our vets aren't comfortable chucking up 3's. It's that simple. Celtics players are, and they have a better offensive coach too.

Dragon, Wade, Deng, don't like to shot 3's. They just don't.
Whiteside cant at all.
Justise can't hit them.


that's like 85%of our rotation.

You replace 2 non shooters with 2 good willing shooters, change up the bench a bit, and you've got a different style going.

[jereseja]

QUIZ
Its simple and its complicated
If u are slow pace team u have less shoots(yesterday 57% shooting and 20 shoots less then SA.TO doesnt help eighter)
If u shot low numbers of 3s u have less points(3 is more then 2)
If u dont play team basketball u have more ISO and 1 on 1 shoots (odd are better when player is open)
Biggest problem is SPO system and trust 15 players who u have not just 2(for playing good players need to be selfconfident and we have a lot players who are not becouse of system and really stuppid last 6-7 minutes in every game when 2 players play and other 3 just deffend and do nothing on offense)
I could go on and on...............

[eddieheatfan]

It's not complicated - It's shooting.

We have none. 3 point shooting and spacing is the bread and butter of todays league. You don't win without it.

In the 90's, you couldn't win without toughness and elite defense.

Rules changed, the game changed, the players changed, the style changed. We're a horse carriage in the motorized age. You can't have the best horse in the world, you'll still lose.

It's very fixable, we need to get with the times. Add to our core the best shooting and spacing possible, WE WILL LOOK COMPELTLYDIFFERENT OUT THERE.

Dragic
Wade
Batum/Fouriner
R.Anderson
Bosh

It's an all different ballgame.

I already talked about that Rex. Go check out their roster: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2016.html

They don't have 3pt shooters, they encourage average and below average guys to chuck. That is not a valid excuse its just a crappy cop out.

You cant' teach old dogs new tricks. Most of our vets aren't comfortable chucking up 3's. It's that simple. Celtics players are, and they have a better offensive coach too.

Dragon, Wade, Deng, don't like to shot 3's. They just don't.
Whiteside cant at all.
Justise can't hit them.


that's like 85%of our rotation.

You replace 2 non shooters with 2 good willing shooters, change up the bench a bit, and you've got a different style going.

until they get afraid to shoot their 3's like mcroberts

[QUIZ]

Ok that took a while but I've put the discussion here.

[QUIZ]

You cant' teach old dogs new tricks. Most of our vets aren't comfortable chucking up 3's. It's that simple. Celtics players are, and they have a better offensive coach too.

Dragon, Wade, Deng, don't like to shot 3's. They just don't.
Whiteside cant at all.
Justise can't hit them.


that's like 85%of our rotation.

You replace 2 non shooters with 2 good willing shooters, change up the bench a bit, and you've got a different style going.

Why are we worse offensively than we were this time last season? Surely a healthy Wade, Bosh, Goran for a full season, Whiteisde, Gerald Green, Stat and McBob should've helped some right.

Yet we're worse than the Henry walker lead Heat where Wade was just hero balling it every night.

[Chalm Down]

I thought Quiz's original post was a mirage for a sec lol...didn't realize it was moved

If we're making a Boston comparison...they just play a different way on offense. They're in the top 3 in AST%, passes that lead to potential assists, etc. Heat are like bottom 5 in all those categories.

[RexBoyWonder]

I already talked about that Rex. Go check out their roster: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2016.html

They don't have 3pt shooters, they encourage average and below average guys to chuck. That is not a valid excuse its just a crappy cop out.

You cant' teach old dogs new tricks. Most of our vets aren't comfortable chucking up 3's. It's that simple. Celtics players are, and they have a better offensive coach too.

Dragon, Wade, Deng, don't like to shot 3's. They just don't.
Whiteside cant at all.
Justise can't hit them.


that's like 85%of our rotation.

You replace 2 non shooters with 2 good willing shooters, change up the bench a bit, and you've got a different style going.

until they get afraid to shoot their 3's like mcroberts

Part of the issue is Spo. There's no doubt it. That Celtics coach got everyone there shooting and playing with confident, here almost everyone seem to play too passive and carful.

The offensive approach needs to adjust after we add the shooters we need. We won't be a contender copying Memphis.

[twix2500]

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

Pts per game is not the defining Stat for offense and pace has no barring on how good a offense is. Pace is how you play, not how well. Pts per possession is how you rate offense.

The 3pt discussion, it's not about what everyone else does. It's about the make up of the Heat. Where on the court does Miami greatest skill at scoring our? Miami has 3 of the best in the paint scorers in the league, Wade, Dragic and Whiteside. Wade and Dragic percentages are at its all time low. Because there are not enough quality role players that can play off the attention Wade, Dragic and Whiteside draws to the paint. Miami simply can't make teams pay for selling out defending the paint.

It's just too top or bottom heavy on where the quality players score.




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[QUIZ]

I thought Quiz's original post was a mirage for a sec lol...didn't realize it was moved

If we're making a Boston comparison...they just play a different way on offense. They're in the top 3 in AST%, passes that lead to potential assists, etc. Heat are like bottom 5 in all those categories.

So their coach makes up for their deficiencies by putting his guys in a system where they can all flourish? Or is the problem that Wade and Goran aren't as good as Avery Bradley and Isaiah Thomas when it comes to play making.

Is the solution to trade for Chris Paul?

[eddieheatfan]

its both i'd say.but coaching and motivation is a key factor here,that's what i think.
bosh has diminished himself from what he used to be in toronto(people blamed cabron because of that) but now i'm more convinced that is more than attitude problem for him.

ditto for wade although i must say that age and injuries or the fear of it has something to do with his poor play this season.

the spo is a total embarrassment.who does not command respect from the players because he rarely calls them out when they play bad.his subs are suspect as well.while he doesnt have a grasp on any offensive schemes that could utilize the current talent better.defense its good at times but players tend to sleep on it sometimes too and dont forget about those famous scoring droughts that mostly happen in the third quarter.that,again speaks of a lack of adaptation of to the other coach's second half own adjustments etc etc blah blah blah

[Bishop45]

Everyone's to bare a little blame, differences from last year is that fit is even more polarizing. Spo's part in the blame varies but of course it would help if he was a better offensive coach

[QUIZ]

Pts per game is not the defining Stat for offense and pace has no barring on how good a offense is. Pace is how you play, not how well. Pts per possession is how you rate offense.

The 3pt discussion, it's not about what everyone else does. It's about the make up of the Heat. Where on the court does Miami greatest skill at score our? Miami has 3 of in the paint scorers in the league, Wade, Dragic and Whiteside. Wade and Dragic percentages are at its all time low. Because there are not enough quality role players that can play off the attention Wade, Dragic and Whiteside draws to the paint. Miami simply can't make teams pay for selling out defending the paint.

It's just too top or bottom heavy on where the quality players score.




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In terms of points per 100 possessions which is points per possession times 100(obviously lol) we are worse than we were last season. 103.9pts per 100 possessions last season, 103.1pts per 100 possessions this season.

[radikalBaller]

30% is on the shooting

70% is on the coaching

Spo and Fizdale are just posers, we have no offensive riddim what so ever.

Though Whiteside attitude and pouting is deplorable, his ejection was a gift for Spo to divert the attention from his execrable coaching.

Pops just manhandled kid Spo when it comes to coaching. Unless we get a Lebron James or a Micheal Jordan, as long as we'll have an amateur coach we'll look like an amateur team each time we face the Spurs.

[3ballbomber]

I'm not one of those fire Spo people, never have been and probably never will be. I believe that this is a players league and a coach only matter so much...

With that said I was looking at some stats earlier today because during yesterdays broadcast the announcers gave out the alarming stat saying that we are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the entire NBA second only to the Sixers... Now pause for a moment and take that in. How is that even possible? There are a lot of crappy teams in the league.

Now you may be saying that its because of our slow pace(which is a problem in and of itself) but that is not the case. Per 100 possessions which adjusts for pace we are averaging 103.1pts which places us in 26th place. For comparison last year we averaged 103.9pts per 100 possessions which was good for 21st place. Somehow we are a worse offensive team this year than last year... I don't understand how.

I feel like we have a tendency to blame our players because unlike other franchises we know that Spo isn't going anywhere. Charles Barley when talking about the Kings firing another coach said "Hey Kings maybe your players suck" Thats pretty much the approach we seem to always take.

"We need a center we can't rebound", in comes Hassan. "Yay the messiah we're saved!" Fast forward 1 year, "Hassan's a jackass trade him."

Another thing that people said was "We need a PG we have the worst guard play in the league" Out goes Rio and Cole in comes Goran, TJ, and Beno. "Yay we have a real PG now! Pay the man." Fast forward 1 year "Dragic sucks he should be available for trades"

Other users have said in the past that Spo is a great defensive coach but he doesn't know a thing about offense and the stats back that up. Last year we had the 21st ranked defense this year after receiving a healthy roster we have the 7th ranked defense. Spo did his job in that regard, Wade, Goran, Stat, Green, and McBob are all below average defenders but Spo has gotten them to buy in and as a result we've made up for our individual shortcomings by working as a team.

Spo is a great defensive coach I think he's proved that much. But why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of scoring? Why are we the 29th ranked team in terms of pace? Why are we worse offensively than last season? We've blamed our lack of shooters but what shooters do the Celtics have?

Avery Bradley? Isaiah Thomas? Jae Crowder? lol

None of those guys have ever been anything special from 3. The Celtics rank 25th in 3pt percentage which is similar to us. You know what the difference is though? Unlike us they attempt 27 three's a game which is good for 6th ranked in the NBA.

Why are the Celtics the 10th ranked offense while we're the 26th. Why are they 2nd in defense and 3rd in pace? They don't even have a center we have the best PnR defensive big in Bosh and the best shot blocker in the past 20 years in Hassan.

Why do they score 105pts per game while we score 96pts? We've already established that they don't have better 3pt shooters.

Is Avery Bradley better than Wade? Isaiah Thomas better than Goran? Kelly Olynyk better than Bosh?

Sorry for the long rant but I really think we should talk about these things. It's a serious conversation that I'd love to have.

The solution to every problem can't be to just throw a super star at it can it?

If the Celtics had Goran I'd bet he's be averaging close to 20ppg at the fast pace.

If they had Bosh I bet they'd be in contention for the top 2 seeds.

Sigh... what do you guys think?

I've always stayed well away from the Fire-Coach-Brigade and have always maintained the stance "Let's criticize the coach when we actually have a roster'....well..........we finally do.........and? 2nd last in offense?

I remember during the offseason when Riles signed Amare, Green and brought back Wade, Goran and Whiteside everybody was stating how we had one of the best starting 5 in the league and people were even talking about how deep we were. WTF happened? We still have those same players right?!

I think for one, Spo is not much of a motivator....nowhere near of what Riley was like. I think Spo is good in regards to defense, drawing up plays in certain situations but he fails to inspire and lack the capability to light a fire under the players as*ses. I think he may also over complicate our offense and fails to properly utilize the strengths of players.

He has made good adjustments recently since the Bulls game of finally getting the team into a faster offense and getting players such as Wade, Bosh & Winslow to attack the rim more - when i saw this i stated that Spo finally worked some sh*t out. The fact that it took him more than half of the season to figure it out is concerning.

I think he needs to simplify the offense. Have everybody playing to their strengths. Let's play a conventional game also...Let Dragic do what he does and actually play the PG role the way it should be done than him passing off the ball to Wade. Even in 1st Q's we have Dragic passing the ball to Wade to set up our offense and it confuses me.

Pop states that this is basketball not rocket science.....you look at Spurs system and it's based on spacing and ball movement. so no matter who is on the court they are always well spaced and the ball moves. It's not that complicated.

For the first time in over 8yrs or so i am now pointing fingers at Coach Spo. I agree that we shouldn't be 2nd last, after the 6ixers, in points scored. I refuse to believe a team with Wade, Bosh, Dragic, Green, Whiteside can achieve something as embarrassing as that.