"Philosophical" question - Would you trade our entire roster for Minnesota's roster?

[RexBoyWonder]

A short recap of where the organizations stand today :

Our main assets :

Bosh - a 31 Allstar, signed long term. Not a true superstar, but a great big man that would age gracefully.
Wade - 34YO, passed his prime but still can be very good most of the time. becomes a free agent. Winner.
Whiteside - an enigmatic piece - superb in some areas, aweful in others. becomes a free agent, raises some mental questions.
Dragic - board-line allstar PG locked long term, playing a limiting role with us so far.
Deng - Average SF, becomes a free agent.
Winslow - high upside 19 YO rookie - looks like a great defending wing with question about his offense.
TJ + J-Rich - nice looking young prospects, but probably don't have a high cellings.

Future drafts : we own 3 first round picks (1 will be delivered this year, 1 is top 7 protected (2018), 1 is unprotected (2021), also owe 4 second round picks over the next 5 years.

Coached by Spo - an experienced but sometimes criticized head coach.


Minnesota's main assets :


Karl-Anthony Towns - looks like a once in a decade type talent. Has it all, offense defense shooting IQ leadership. 20 YO.
Andrew Wiggins - Athletic freak, has yet to match his skills to his physical abilities but already 20 PPG wing, extremely high upside.
Zach LaVine - ANOTER Athletic freak, more raw then Wiggins but has a scoring talent despite not putting it together yet. Boom or Bust type prospect, can become an all-star or a bench player.
Shabazz Muhammad - interesting scoring wing playing a limited role, 23 YO.
Ricky Rubio - 25YO locked long term, can't really score or shoot but elite passing and good defender. Injury problems.

Coached by Sam Mitchell - a somewhat hated and by all accounts probably a pretty awful head coach.

Future drafts : owe 2 first round picks (but lottery protected, so will likely turn to second round picks instead), also owe a bunch of second round picks under different protections).

=========

We have a bunch of proven winners here, but we're not exactly clicking. Minny despite their promising players are sucking yet again this year, and didn't even make the playoffs since 2004.

Considering all of this, and assuming Owners and GMs stay where they are, would you trade our entire roster + coach + future drafts rights with them if you could?

Would you want to be in Minnesota's overall situation right now and going forward?

Spoiler:

I guess it's largely come to what you value more or enjoy more - upside and hope or proven talent and savviness/winners. Curious to hear your thoughts as fans.

[orphicwhip]

I'd trade the entire roster sans Justise just for KAT TBH

[QUIZ]

No I wouldn't. WTF is this? I love the way Riley builds teams. If he had Minnesota's roster he wouldn't be content with once again being in the lottery. We've only been there 4 times in the 20 years that Riley has been here.

You say do you want Minnesota's upside but you don't ask if we want to endure decades upon decades of losing. It feels like that team has sucked my entire life(or at least since I was old enough to watch basket ball)

A better question is are you willing to go through decades of **** basket ball and losing in exchange for a core of Wiggins, Towns, and Lavine?

I sure as hell am not. If Minnesota was our team down here I might've never become a basketball fan. D. Wade did that for me when I was a little kid. If they sucked until I was 20 though? I might not even give a ****. Kinda like I don't give a **** about the Dolphins or the Marlins. They never sparked my interest when I was younger.

So again no I wouldn't trade our roster for theirs.

[goodboy]

Rex is drink

[twix2500]

sigh, I remember this very same conversation when we faced OKC in the finals. We eliminated them quickly and we never see the "Oh OKC will be in the finals more than Miami because of its age" talk again. Just because you build with youth doesnt mean they will grow in to contenders, and most likely they will not.

[contract]

No, but I would trade everyone but DWade for KAT.

[3ballbomber]

Rex, bro......wtf lol

We are, as we stand, a big signing away from being legit contenders. IF Riles works his magic once more and we happen to land that big fish vets will come swarming once again to ring chase and the opportunity to fill out our roster w/ battle tested veterans.

I believe we are in a nice spot. Spite of what's been going on around Hassan, we can still mend that situation. Whiteside is still very much hopeful. Riles can still negotiate w/ our current roster in regards to salary w/ the promise of something big in the horizon.

I also love that Riles is even more in a win now situation w/ his age.....it essentially means the Godfather is going to go all in soon & i'm sure Micky will be on board. I'm actually quite excited for our next 2-3 seasons.

[ZoStrong]

Rex, bro......wtf lol

We are, as we stand, a big signing away from being legit contenders. IF Riles works his magic once more and we happen to land that big fish vets will come swarming once again to ring chase and the opportunity to fill out our roster w/ battle tested veterans.

I believe we are in a nice spot. Spite of what's been going on around Hassan, we can still mend that situation. Whiteside is still very much hopeful. Riles can still negotiate w/ our current roster in regards to salary w/ the promise of something big in the horizon.

I also love that Riles is even more in a win now situation w/ his age.....it essentially means the Godfather is going to go all in soon & i'm sure Micky will be on board. I'm actually quite excited for our next 2-3 seasons.

I think people are misunderstanding the proposal or not spending some time to ponder.

If I have to turn in my Miami Heat fan card and start cheering for the Timberwolves, the answer is NO, of course.

But, the way I understand the proposal is IF Micky Arison and Riley were given a chance to own the roster + future picks + the coaching staff of that team - everyone wearing Heat jerseys in Miami - would I want that opportunity?

You have to at least think about it.
A lot of teams are one big signing away from a contender! And that one big signing rarely happens.
Besides Riley is still here, just with a diff. roster, in a much better position to make some magic!

First of all, Riley will fire the coaching staff and there will be major moves in the off season.
You have to, at least, admit that the Timberwolves have so many chips to make moves.

I will deal away Rubio and some others + picks to make a major move.
And I will sign Tyler Johnson in the off season (he is a FA) unless there is a better move.
I might even entertain signing Whiteside, but I might be happy with Pekovic who's 30 and has two more years at 12 mil/yr.

Right now the only major pieces Miami has signed thru next year are Bosh, Dragic, and Winslow.
We are no lock to retain Whiteside. Wade I am sure is not going anywhere.

Does the proposal allow us to sign Wade next year? (He's also a FA, free to sign with anyone.)
In this scenario, we are only trading away Bosh, Dragic, and Winslow + the rest of this year for the entire roster of Timberwolves and a greater chance to retool than our current roster.

Even if the proposal excludes us from getting Wade back (He's got a couple solid years after this season, imo) I will have a hard time turning down the offer. That team has just so many chips! and Riley will have a helluva off season of wheeling and dealing.

[Bourne85]

Weird...but you know what il say yes I would. Only because this heat team bores me. Knowing the outcome to the year is sad. And next year we likely get to do it all again only with higher salary.

Atleast with that core you have something to grow with and many possibilities. Exciting young talent. Sign me up.

[ZoStrong]

sigh, I remember this very same conversation when we faced OKC in the finals. We eliminated them quickly and we never see the "Oh OKC will be in the finals more than Miami because of its age" talk again. Just because you build with youth doesnt mean they will grow in to contenders, and most likely they will not.

Not exactly the same conversation here.
And I laughed off at that conversation back then.
When a young roster with a couple great talents make it to the Finals, people overreact and crown them as
the future dynasty. That almost never happens.

Our core of the Big Three were in their mid to late 20s - the prime of their career - plus some savvy veterans.
You don't give up a proven commodity(team) for a prospect.

Right now we do not have a proven commodity and the roster is aging fast.
What's the best way to retool than having a lot of chips to deal.

[Slot Machine]

Easily. KAT would give us another superstar to build around for the next 10+ years.

[RexBoyWonder]

sigh, I remember this very same conversation when we faced OKC in the finals. We eliminated them quickly and we never see the "Oh OKC will be in the finals more than Miami because of its age" talk again. Just because you build with youth doesnt mean they will grow in to contenders, and most likely they will not.

Not exactly the same conversation here.
And I laughed off at that conversation back then.
When a young roster with a couple great talents make it to the Finals, people overreact and crown them as
the future dynasty. That almost never happens.

Our core of the Big Three were in their mid to late 20s - the prime of their career - plus some savvy veterans.
You don't give up a proven commodity(team) for a prospect.

Right now we do not have a proven commodity and the roster is aging fast.
What's the best way to retool than having a lot of chips to deal.

Also I think the main reason OKC didn't become a dynasty has nothing to do with being so young :

1. They lost Harden for no good reason. Could've kept him and pay the tax.
2. They had health issue every year in the playoffs - Ibaka, Durant, just unlucky with the timing of injuries.
3. They're in the west. If they were in the East, they might have been to the finals at least 3 times by now.
4. THEY'RE STILL IN IT. Our big 3 is long gone, but OKC is still a contender, the only reason they're not getting enough attention is GSW amazing run.

I think people underestimate how hard it is find a in-prime superstar. That's' why I worry about the Day after Wade, he's been a godsend.

[MartyConlonJr]

I probably would. That team would have max space this offseason and a decent shot at the #1 pick and at least a pick around 5-6.

If you move that roster from Minnesota to Miami, it immediately becomes a hot spot FA destination.

This is a 8.8% chance of happening

C - Karl Anthony-Towns / Nikola Pekovic
PF - Ben Simmons / Kevin Garnett
SF - ? / Shabazz Muhammad
SG - Andrew Wiggins / Kevin Martin
PG - Ricky Rubio / Zach Lavine

That sort of lineup in Miami puts you in a front seat for Durant imo. We'd fire the coach and get an opportunity to bring someone in.

Would be hard to pass up. Would also have the max the following year, maybe more. Bring Westbrook in now you got Durant. I do love Wade and a few of our guys, but man i'd love the feeling of a team not on borrowed time.

[Axel]

Do we want to be a treadmill team, like we currently are, or should we rebuild?

We'd be lucky to have a core as talented as Minnesota. Definitely need a few #1 picks in there. I'd happily trade our treadmill team for a team loaded with top draft picks without having to go through multiple seasons of futility. Eventually we will have to rebuild, and this time we don't have a prime D-Wade to help Riley attract free agents.

[DWadeno3]

In a vacuum, their roster has a lot more long-term potential, so based on that one would probably trade it. But for all the complaints about our organization, a lot of fans tend to forget what it took for the likes of OKC (formerly Seattle) and Minnesota to acquire the rosters they have. Minnesota has sucked for years, in part due to incompetent management (Kahn) but also in part because drafting isn't that easy and luck plays a huge role in it as well.

And even in Minnesota's case, who knows what all those talented players will end up as. Riley has a philosophy, which is eliminating most of those risks by bringing in veteran guys where you know what yuo're gonna get and it has kept us out of the lottery for the majority of his tenure, which is something I personally appreciate.
Don't get me twisted, I enjoy watching young players grow, it's always special to have a kid become a star and stay with your organization the entire time. But to exclusively rely on that strategy and have those many years of losing and not being a respected franchise, I wouldn't want that.

In that sense, the Beasley pick pisses me off even more because that one time we were in a position to pick up a long-term option for our franchise, it turned out to be a bust. It's only more evidence of the risk drafting brings along.

[TroubleS0me]

I just want KAT from them, smart player , one of the best rookies in yrs

[heatwillbeback]

Yea. If we get assurance Wade would sign this offseason haha.

In all seriousness, I want Wade until the end. He is that important to this franchise.

[DayofMourning]

I just want KAT from them, smart player , one of the best rookies in yrs

Its fun to see how widely this perception has become accepted. I remember many a fan stating how teams would be foolish to pass on Okafor for Towns. That was based largely on their production in college, not their skillset.

[DayofMourning]

As for the original proposal, sure I would. I love Minny's team. Once Wiggins and Lavine figure it out, they'll be tough to handle. Ben Simmons on that team looks real nice as well. So does Kris Dunn, depending on what they do with Rubio. Lots of options.

[Revived]

I think Lavine is a player that will fall short of expectations but I think Wiggins and Towns will be two of the top 5 players in the NBA by 2020.