Basketball Analytics Article - Identifying some of ORL's issues

[rcklsscognition]

What we have is a fit issue with a lot of players and that's a part of why we are so inconsistent and why we run so many lineups.

I'm not sure you can run a system around Harris' strengths without significantly hurting other players on the team. The same can be said for many other players on our squad. We don't have more than a couple of pairings that even work, let alone 3 guys, or 4.

That's why I'm cautious to over-project our players for the future based on increased roles. I'm not sure how well in the current situation that would work. You might get individual increases but the team as a whole takes a hit. Can the team even function with Harris at 25% usage, 30%?

[ezzzp]

Well one thing is for sure - the Magic primary ball handler's all suck in the Pick and Roll. Payton's Points Per Possesion is a little over half a point. That is FuUuUuGLLEEee...

Harris and Gordon look to be better, but at such low rate it doesn't really indicate that they are capable to sustain that PPP if volume increases.

[Furinkazan]

Our problem is Gordon and Hezonja are only 20. We need to fast forward 2-3 years.

Im gonna hibernate like a bear...wake me up when its time

[monchief]

Well one thing is for sure - the Magic primary ball handler's all suck in the Pick and Roll. Payton's Points Per Possesion is a little over half a point. That is FuUuUuGLLEEee...

Harris and Gordon look to be better, but at such low rate it doesn't really indicate that they are capable to sustain that PPP if volume increases.

That's a nice chart, where's that data from? And what is the percentile stat being measured against?

And yeah, Payton is not good at running an offense. He has good vision, but you can't put good vision to use when your man goes under every screen or just hovers in the paint protecting interior passing lanes and dares you to shoot.

[BadWolf]

Harris haters bashing the article Harris fans supporting it.
Blind man could see two biggest issues with the team, and neither is on the wings.
Big(s) that can't defend and playmaker(s) that can't make plays or shoot

[OrlChamps2030]

Well one thing is for sure - the Magic primary ball handler's all suck in the Pick and Roll. Payton's Points Per Possesion is a little over half a point. That is FuUuUuGLLEEee...

Harris and Gordon look to be better, but at such low rate it doesn't really indicate that they are capable to sustain that PPP if volume increases.

Do you have data on the roll men?

[ezzzp]

Well one thing is for sure - the Magic primary ball handler's all suck in the Pick and Roll. Payton's Points Per Possesion is a little over half a point. That is FuUuUuGLLEEee...

Harris and Gordon look to be better, but at such low rate it doesn't really indicate that they are capable to sustain that PPP if volume increases.

That's a nice chart, where's that data from? And what is the percentile stat being measured against?

And yeah, Payton is not good at running an offense. He has good vision, but you can't put good vision to use when your man goes under every screen or just hovers in the paint protecting interior passing lanes and dares you to shoot.

Numbers are from NBA.com (Play Type - Pick and Roll - Ball Handler). I just extrapolated the Magic players. The percentile is of all active NBA players; so EP is in the bottom 26.4% of all NBA players as a PnR ball handler.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive

[Orlwillbeback]

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

[MagicFan101]

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

I have come to like Dipo much more since that draft but weren't you the loudest proponent of the "they're young so they will easily learn to shoot!" movement?

[Orlwillbeback]

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

I have come to like Dipo much more since that draft but weren't you the loudest proponent of the "they're young so they will easily learn to shoot!" movement?

I doubt it i just knew dipo was better than the other guys who were supposed to go top 5 in 2013.

Im not sure i can be bashed but for not saying we should have taken mccollum, gobert or giannis but i wont put it past you.

[Fiddlesticks]

I think its important to realize a lot of numbers could change in a different system Tobias Harris got right at 17 Points Last yr with the only thing being different this year is the 3pt % and that's not Really effecting his points. To be honest i think the system is somewhat hampering Dipo on offense also. Our best Line ups have featured our best shooters and spacing. Everyone wants things to be black and white but it does not work that way, If Harris and Dipo were being utilized better i think that is the situation where our team is at its best. Unfortunately its not that simple if Skiles stays stubborn and continues to run his same system then spacing is the key and we need to be focusing on going in the direction. The thing that is going to make this situation painful is i think both Harris and Dipo are better players in different systems so when we trade one of them or both and they become successful, we have to realize that success probably could not be had in Skiles system.

[MagicFan101]

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

I have come to like Dipo much more since that draft but weren't you the loudest proponent of the "they're young so they will easily learn to shoot!" movement?

I doubt it i just knew dipo was better than the other guys who were supposed to go top 5 in 2013.

Im not sure i can be bashed but for not saying we should have taken mccollum, gobert or giannis but i wont put it past you.

I'm just poking fun. Dipo is better than the guy I wanted that year.

I'm just happy to see that people are starting to accept that like anything else, a quality jump shot isn't an automatic result of aging. People here claimed it would be for Dipo, Elf, Harris and Gordon. While I hoped they were righ, it just isn't true. Some guys find their stroke and some guys don't.

[ezzzp]

Well one thing is for sure - the Magic primary ball handler's all suck in the Pick and Roll. Payton's Points Per Possesion is a little over half a point. That is FuUuUuGLLEEee...

Harris and Gordon look to be better, but at such low rate it doesn't really indicate that they are capable to sustain that PPP if volume increases.

Do you have data on the roll men?

Andrew Nicholson!

[OrlandoNed]

Harris haters bashing the article Harris fans supporting it.
Blind man could see two biggest issues with the team, and neither is on the wings.
Big(s) that can't defend and playmaker(s) that can't make plays or shoot

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

To echo both your points, it's really tough to rebuild from the ground up around a PG who can't shoot and a center who can't defend. I'm not doubting that Vucevic and Payton have real value in the league, but look back at the last 15 championship teams; Every single one has a defensive center and except for the 08 Boston team with Rondo, also has a point guard who can shoot in a legitimate capacity.

I think the league will really start to follow Golden State's type of roster construction of sandwiching a bunch of 6'7 to 6'9 guys who do a bunch of different things well using up all the SG, SF, PF minutes in-between a competent, all-around PG with an at least above average shooting ability and an at least average center who focuses on defense and rebounding. If you consider that type of roster an actual sandwich with the PG and C being the bread Orlando has two slabs of plywood named Payton and Vucevic. Plywood is still useful in a situation that needs building material, but it makes for not the best sandwich ever.

[ezzzp]

Harris haters bashing the article Harris fans supporting it.
Blind man could see two biggest issues with the team, and neither is on the wings.
Big(s) that can't defend and playmaker(s) that can't make plays or shoot

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

To echo both your points, it's really tough to rebuild from the ground up around a PG who can't shoot and a center who can't defend. I'm not doubting that Vucevic and Payton have real value in the league, but look back at the last 15 championship teams; Every single one has a defensive center and except for the 08 Boston team with Rondo, also has a point guard who can shoot in a legitimate capacity.

I think the league will really start to follow Golden State's type of roster construction of sandwiching a bunch of 6'7 to 6'9 guys who do a bunch of different things well using up all the SG, SF, PF minutes in-between a competent, all-around PG with an at least above average shooting ability and an at least average center who focuses on defense and rebounding. If you consider that type of roster an actual sandwich with the PG and C being the bread Orlando has two slabs of plywood named Payton and Vucevic. Plywood is still useful in a situation that needs building material, but it makes for not the best sandwich ever.

I don't buy that the league will follow GSW roster construction. The league is always about who the dominant players are. If you look at the best (25 and under) players, nearly all of them are front court players.

The Magic contention window will begin somewhere between 2-4 years. That is when most of their core will enter their prime. In 2-4 years the players that are in their prime 26-29 now will begin to fade...a great majority of the best of those players are guards or wings.

Unless a major (Lebron/Kobe) level player comes out of the draft real soon, the league will be PF/C dominant again within a couple of years.

[MagicFan101]

Harris haters bashing the article Harris fans supporting it.
Blind man could see two biggest issues with the team, and neither is on the wings.
Big(s) that can't defend and playmaker(s) that can't make plays or shoot

Good teams have guards that shoot and bigs who defend.

To echo both your points, it's really tough to rebuild from the ground up around a PG who can't shoot and a center who can't defend. I'm not doubting that Vucevic and Payton have real value in the league, but look back at the last 15 championship teams; Every single one has a defensive center and except for the 08 Boston team with Rondo, also has a point guard who can shoot in a legitimate capacity.

I think the league will really start to follow Golden State's type of roster construction of sandwiching a bunch of 6'7 to 6'9 guys who do a bunch of different things well using up all the SG, SF, PF minutes in-between a competent, all-around PG with an at least above average shooting ability and an at least average center who focuses on defense and rebounding. If you consider that type of roster an actual sandwich with the PG and C being the bread Orlando has two slabs of plywood named Payton and Vucevic. Plywood is still useful in a situation that needs building material, but it makes for not the best sandwich ever.

I don't buy that the league will follow GSW roster construction. The league is always about who the dominant players are. If you look at the best (25 and under) players, nearly all of them are front court players.

The Magic contention window will begin somewhere between 2-4 years. That is when most of their core will enter their prime. In 2-4 years the players that are in their prime 26-29 now will begin to fade...a great majority of the best of those players are guards or wings.

Unless a major (Lebron/Kobe) level player comes out of the draft real soon, the league will be PF/C dominant again within a couple of years.

I agree. As soon as that roster clicks or he jumps ship, Anthony Davis is taking over (apologies Steph). I have been 100% on the KAT bandwagon since before people thought he deserved to be in the discussion with Okafor and I somehow feel now that even I underestimated him. Then you also have Porzingis on NY and a hoard of bigs in Philly that you have to keep an eye on.