OKC is still missing the 3rd Star

[kraytinprime]

Most NBA champions have 3 stars. In the playoffs teams are able to limit one or two stars. Its when a team has a 3rd star that defensive game plans go into the toilet. Look at all the NBA champions lately:

GSW - Curry, Klay, Green
Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Manu
Heat - Lebron, Wade, Bosh
Mavs - Dirk (the exception to the rule)
Lakers - Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Lamar

So who is OKC's 3rd star?

Ibaka has been a big disappointment on offense. In 2012 I thought he had a chance to grow into being our 3rd Star. But unfortunatly it seems like he does not have the basketball IQ to be an elite offensive player. Kanter sometimes looks like an All-Star level scorer and rebounder. But other times his defense is so horrible he can't stay on the floor. Adams has made massive strides on offense this year and maybe in a few years he could become our 3rd Star. Dion has the talent to be a star but his horrible shot selection and inability to finish at the rim are troubling.

IMO, our 3rd star should be Kanter. He already has the offensive game to be a star. He just needs to be more consistent and not disappear in games. I think Donovan needs to play the man 25-30 minutes a game and cook up strategies to hide him on defense. The great thing is he fits perfectily with KD/Russ on offense.

[Pillendreher]

You can't hide Kanter on defense because the Center position has the most influence on a team's defense. If your Center sucks so bad, there's no chance you can be great defensively with him on the floor.

[Old Man Game]

Personally I think Adams is improving at a rapid pace and will clearly surpass Kanter in the next season or so. Pretty post moves and all.

[bondom34]

Overall Adams is the better player now, offensively he's gotta get there, but considering Kanter's defensive woes, Adams overall game has passed him easily. He's at least not a negative most times.

[spearsy23]

Parker and Manu aren't third stars, Bosh was never a star in Miami, and last year's version of Draymond didn't even resemble a star.

[kraytinprime]

Parker and Manu aren't third stars, Bosh was never a star in Miami, and last year's version of Draymond didn't even resemble a star.

Parker/Manu were stars when they won the title 2 years ago. Both could drop 25 points if they needed to.

Bosh was incredibly important during Miami's championships. He knocked down a ton of clutch shots. Its not so much about the stats but his ability to step up when teams focus all their attention on Wade/Lebron.

Draymond was a star in last years playoffs.

14 points per game
10 rebounds
5 assists
2 steals
1.2 blocks

[kraytinprime]

Overall Adams is the better player now, offensively he's gotta get there, but considering Kanter's defensive woes, Adams overall game has passed him easily. He's at least not a negative most times.

I like Adams. But the problem is Adams can't punish teams for going small on offense. Adams still can't dominate a smaller player in the low block. If teams go small Kanter can destroy smaller defenders on the low block and the offensive glass. If Adams can develop a decent low post game he would become our 3rd star.

[bondom34]

Overall Adams is the better player now, offensively he's gotta get there, but considering Kanter's defensive woes, Adams overall game has passed him easily. He's at least not a negative most times.

I like Adams. But the problem is Adams can't punish teams for going small on offense. Adams still can't dominate a smaller player in the low block. If teams go small Kanter can destroy smaller defenders on the low block and the offensive glass. If Adams can develop a decent low post game he would become our 3rd star.

I like Kanter as well, but his defense is so far beyond bad he's a negative on court and can't play against most teams with a decent pick and roll combo. Adams can defend and his offense is fine.

OKC doesn't need a star, it needs competent 2 way players, which Adams is much more than Kanter.

Edit: And ftr, points =/= star.

[Old Man Game]

Kanter gives so much back on the defensive end I'm not sure he really does punish teams that go small. He might score and rebound but if he gives it all back defensively where are you at the end of the day?

[kraytinprime]

Kanter gives so much back on the defensive end I'm not sure he really does punish teams that go small. He might score and rebound but if he gives it all back defensively where are you at the end of the day?

That's why Donovan has to find ways to hide Kanter. They did an excellent job by hiding Kanter on Livingston and Iguadala. Kanter went for 14 points and 15 rebounds in 20 minutes versus GSW with a plus/minus of -1. Adams played 33 minutes with a plus/minus of -12.

The key is put Kanter on a player who is not a screener and who is not great at 3's.

[Old Man Game]

Kanter gives so much back on the defensive end I'm not sure he really does punish teams that go small. He might score and rebound but if he gives it all back defensively where are you at the end of the day?

That's why Donovan has to find ways to hide Kanter. They did an excellent job by hiding Kanter on Livingston and Iguadala. Kanter went for 14 points and 15 rebounds in 20 minutes versus GSW with a plus/minus of -1. Adams played 33 minutes with a plus/minus of -12.

The key is put Kanter on a player who is not a screener and who is not great at 3's.

Well, we'll see if that works over a longer sample of minutes. Seems to me perimeter players like both Livingston and Iggy could exploit Kanter in isolation situations on the perimeter.

[spearsy23]

Parker/Manu were stars when they won the title 2 years ago. Both could drop 25 points if they needed to.

Manu scored 25 points 4 times that entire season. Parker had a great year though, if I remember correctly, which doesn't really matter since Kawhi DEFINITELY wasn't a star.

Bosh was incredibly important during Miami's championships. He knocked down a ton of clutch shots. Its not so much about the stats but his ability to step up when teams focus all their attention on Wade/Lebron.

Bosh was a good player, nobody is disputing that. He wasn't a star.

Draymond was a star in last years playoffs.

14 points per game
10 rebounds
5 assists
2 steals
1.2 blocks

Those aren't star numbers, especially combined with his 51.7 ts% and 16.6 PER. Again, a good player, nowhere near a star.


If you're saying we need more good players to be at those team's levels then I completely disagree. We're already as good as them, unfortunately the Spurs and Warriors got bett.

[kraytinprime]

Kanter gives so much back on the defensive end I'm not sure he really does punish teams that go small. He might score and rebound but if he gives it all back defensively where are you at the end of the day?

That's why Donovan has to find ways to hide Kanter. They did an excellent job by hiding Kanter on Livingston and Iguadala. Kanter went for 14 points and 15 rebounds in 20 minutes versus GSW with a plus/minus of -1. Adams played 33 minutes with a plus/minus of -12.

The key is put Kanter on a player who is not a screener and who is not great at 3's.

Well, we'll see if that works over a longer sample of minutes. Seems to me perimeter players like both Livingston and Iggy could exploit Kanter in isolation situations on the perimeter.

The only way Livingtson/Iggy could exploit Kanter is by hitting long 2 pointers. And that's exactly what we want GSW to do. Both Livingston/Iggy are horrible at shooting 3 pointers from a live dribble. Iggy thrives on spot up 3 pointers after teams double team Steph. Livingston thrives on shooting over the top of smaller guards. Kanter can do enough to limit those types of shots from those players.

[kraytinprime]

Parker/Manu were stars when they won the title 2 years ago. Both could drop 25 points if they needed to.

Manu scored 25 points 4 times that entire season. Parker had a great year though, if I remember correctly, which doesn't really matter since Kawhi DEFINITELY wasn't a star.

Bosh was incredibly important during Miami's championships. He knocked down a ton of clutch shots. Its not so much about the stats but his ability to step up when teams focus all their attention on Wade/Lebron.

Bosh was a good player, nobody is disputing that. He wasn't a star.

Draymond was a star in last years playoffs.

14 points per game
10 rebounds
5 assists
2 steals
1.2 blocks

Those aren't star numbers, especially combined with his 51.7 ts% and 16.6 PER. Again, a good player, nowhere near a star.


If you're saying we need more good players to be at those team's levels then I completely disagree. We're already as good as them, unfortunately the Spurs and Warriors got bett.

You are getting to caught up on stats. Of course guys like Bosh/Green/Manu won't be averaging 25 points per game. The reason is they are playing with 2 other stars that are superior to them. But when needed 2014 Manu could go for 25. Same with 2012 Bosh and 2015 Green.

2014 Manu, 2012 Bosh, and 2015 Green could all average 20+ points per game if they were the #1 or #2 guy on the team. Could Kanter do that? Ibaka? Waiters? Pretty clear Ibaka can't. He had his chance the last couple years when KD/Russ were hurt and he did nothing.

Do we have a guy who can go for 25 points if a team double teams KD/Russ on every posession? I think only Kanter can. If Ibaka's jump shot is off he's useless on offense. Waiters jump shot is too erratic and his inability to finish layups is horrible.

[bondom34]

You are getting to caught up on stats. Of course guys like Bosh/Green/Manu won't be averaging 25 points per game. The reason is they are playing with 2 other stars that are superior to them. But when needed 2014 Manu could go for 25. Same with 2012 Bosh and 2015 Green.

2014 Manu, 2012 Bosh, and 2015 Green could all average 20+ points per game if they were the #1 or #2 guy on the team. Could Kanter do that? Ibaka? Waiters? Pretty clear Ibaka can't. He had his chance the last couple years when KD/Russ were hurt and he did nothing.

Do we have a guy who can go for 25 points if a team double teams KD/Russ on every posession? I think only Kanter can. If Ibaka's jump shot is off he's useless on offense. Waiters had a few 25 point games but it is very rare.

But again, points =/= star. Draymond is a star because of his defense, not scoring. Waiters is just a bad player, and Kanter is too bad defensively to cover up, there's a reason they got him essentially for free. The need is 2 way guys, and right now the only ones are Russ, KD, and to some extent Serge. Adams is getting there and Cam may too, but the rest aren't. At this point, there's a next to zero chance Kanter becomes a passable enough defender to ever be anything other than a bench big.

[kraytinprime]

You are getting to caught up on stats. Of course guys like Bosh/Green/Manu won't be averaging 25 points per game. The reason is they are playing with 2 other stars that are superior to them. But when needed 2014 Manu could go for 25. Same with 2012 Bosh and 2015 Green.

2014 Manu, 2012 Bosh, and 2015 Green could all average 20+ points per game if they were the #1 or #2 guy on the team. Could Kanter do that? Ibaka? Waiters? Pretty clear Ibaka can't. He had his chance the last couple years when KD/Russ were hurt and he did nothing.

Do we have a guy who can go for 25 points if a team double teams KD/Russ on every posession? I think only Kanter can. If Ibaka's jump shot is off he's useless on offense. Waiters had a few 25 point games but it is very rare.

But again, points =/= star. Draymond is a star because of his defense, not scoring. Waiters is just a bad player, and Kanter is too bad defensively to cover up, there's a reason they got him essentially for free. The need is 2 way guys, and right now the only ones are Russ, KD, and to some extent Serge. Adams is getting there and Cam may too, but the rest aren't. At this point, there's a next to zero chance Kanter becomes a passable enough defender to ever be anything other than a bench big.

Draymond is a star because his ability to do EVERYTHING at an above average level on offense. That includes his passing ability, offensive rebounding, and yes scoring.

Just looking at offense Draymond destroys Ibaka. Draymond is pretty much the modern day Scottie Pippen. He's a point foward. He is definitely a star on offense.

[bondom34]

You are getting to caught up on stats. Of course guys like Bosh/Green/Manu won't be averaging 25 points per game. The reason is they are playing with 2 other stars that are superior to them. But when needed 2014 Manu could go for 25. Same with 2012 Bosh and 2015 Green.

2014 Manu, 2012 Bosh, and 2015 Green could all average 20+ points per game if they were the #1 or #2 guy on the team. Could Kanter do that? Ibaka? Waiters? Pretty clear Ibaka can't. He had his chance the last couple years when KD/Russ were hurt and he did nothing.

Do we have a guy who can go for 25 points if a team double teams KD/Russ on every posession? I think only Kanter can. If Ibaka's jump shot is off he's useless on offense. Waiters had a few 25 point games but it is very rare.

But again, points =/= star. Draymond is a star because of his defense, not scoring. Waiters is just a bad player, and Kanter is too bad defensively to cover up, there's a reason they got him essentially for free. The need is 2 way guys, and right now the only ones are Russ, KD, and to some extent Serge. Adams is getting there and Cam may too, but the rest aren't. At this point, there's a next to zero chance Kanter becomes a passable enough defender to ever be anything other than a bench big.

Draymond is a star because his ability to do EVERYTHING at an above average level on offense. That includes his passing ability, offensive rebounding, and yes scoring.

Just looking at offense Draymond destroys Ibaka. Draymond is pretty much the modern day Scottie Pippen. He's a point foward. He is definitely a star on offense.

He also does everything above average defensively. Kanter scores and rebounds, that's all.

[StunnaStan]

Okc ruined their chances to get a ring when they let harden, jackson, jeff green walk. Let alone, you brought harden n Jackson off the bench

[Dadouv47]

Okc ruined their chances to get a ring when they let harden, jackson, jeff green walk. Let alone, you brought harden n Jackson off the bench

this discussion will never end.
Harden case was complicated. Maybe we could have resigning him ( but not sure it's worth to start talking hours and hours about that).
On the other hand, jackson wanted to be a starter, so we had no other choices than trading him.
And Jeff Green well... no thanks! It's not the kind of player that can help a team to get a ring.

Biggest recent mistake was to treat Jeremy Lamb like **** and trading him for nothing.

[bondom34]

Okc ruined their chances to get a ring when they let harden, jackson, jeff green walk. Let alone, you brought harden n Jackson off the bench

The 1st 2 wanted out, and Green is a bad player. Not even close.