tiderulz wrote:King Ken wrote:tiderulz wrote:
fair enough. I dont find Teague to have nearly the value you do, and no where near the value to get both Oladipo and Gordon.
In a straight trade of Teague for Oladipo, Atlanta gets the more valuable player. A strong player, in a weak position throughout the league, still on his rookie contract and under control of his team for his next contract. Meanwhile Orlando would get a good, but average PG at arguably the deepest position in the NBA right now, who becomes an UFA in less than 1.5 years and could walk away leaving Orlando nothing.
And i bet if you posted this in the GB, i bet the majority of people would agree with me.
Sorry, I don't see how that statement is even true. I really don't. I do not see how Oladipo is even close to Teague.
I honestly don't even see him as a winning SG. He's undersized. Doesn't show consistency in terms of off ball scoring. Poor team defender by the metrics and doesn't pass the eye test. I see Teague as one of the better PG's in the NBA and as one of the most well skilled PG's in the NBA. He can do a bit of everything on top of that he can run an offense and shoot well as well. I really see Jeff as being a key asset and I see him as worth both Gordon and Oladipo. I do not see Victor as a future starter for a winning NBA team. An average one, yes but a good one or a contender, no. I see him as too much of a tweener. In our system, tweeners can be good but they have to have team dominate qualities, not individual based qualities.
I see him in the same vision as I seen O.J. Mayo four years ago with a lot of potential but I am not sure they will ever live up to it. Mayo didn't. That doesn't mean Victor won't but it will not be in Atlanta.
My biggest issue with you fans on bad teams like Orlando is you always talk about them in their future when their future isn't close to certain. That's why you always feel like your "potential" is always worth a lot more than what it is. You then talk about stats but stats on bad teams aren't always truthful at all.
This isn't about Teague in general. This is about these type of comparisons in general. Comparing legit young players who is actually good to unproven "potential".
Dipo is 6'4 with a 6'9 wing span, he isnt undersized.
You may see Teague as one of the better PG's in the league, but he is about 12th or so. He does a lot of things, but does them average or above average. He is 15/5 this year, 16/7 his best year. He is in no way, shape or form with Dipo AND Gordon. You may not see Victor a starter on a winning team, that is your view. Your fellow Atlanta fans do not agree with your opinion. In fact, i didnt see a single Atlanta fan agree with this opinion.
potential for players that are rookies or 2nd year players, yeah, that is what you talk about. Teague, you know what he is. Average defender, average playmaker, avg 3 pt shooter until this year, just an average to above average PG. He doesnt make anyone on the Hawks better, hence why Atlanta is ready to let him go and see what Schroder can do as the starter. Atlanta is about to slide into mediocrity, and the front office knows it, hence their engaging in trade discussions. If you think Teague is worth Gordon and Dipo, it will be interesting to see your reaction when Teague does get traded and what Atlanta gets back. You could be looking at George Hill and a 2nd round pick.
I love how you come on our board, and talk about how we overvalue our talent and talk about realizing how other teams view our talent. Anyways, done discussing with you about Teagues value, you have him inflated to a top-5 PG which he by no means is.
I really don't care to see your PG's you like since just scanning it made me
So I will address the rest of the post instead.
He is undersized. Everytime he plays he looks like a PG. He is not even the well framed as other tweener guards like Dion Waiters. He small. He doesn't have that elite strength or coordination to get by with it like Wade and he doesn't have the shooting skills like the healthy prime Eric Gordon to be ball dominate and play winning Baskeball nor does he have the elite athletic ability to play PG like Westbrook. He's a man without a true position. That's a tough place in today's NBA which you must have the off ball movement to make up for the lack of size like Bradley Beal has. He really doesn't mark off as a legit starting SG. He doesn't. The only one your roster with that potential is Hezonja but he's too raw right now and the lack of PG in your team is killing his potential impact.
You just are not going to convince me otherwise. I have LP. I read the analytics and I see his player tracking pairings. He's not a good fit for winning Basketball. He's a bad fit with every starter in your roster and only seems to do well with C.J. Watson with of course, is a very limited sample size. If he is struggling in the team concept with Orlando then fudge, he will be awful for a team who has one of the most challenge concepts in the NBA if not the most. Tiago Splitter even stated Atlanta runs a lot of difficult concepts that is even more challenging than San Antonio's.
You are trying to give me raw numbers which don't tell the story whatsoever. That's what you can't understand. It's like you see everything on surface level. If you can't understand any advanced concepts, how the hell are you going to talk with me about it? I know what each of your players are. I know why your team is extremely flawed. I know what your GM is trying to do and it's not going to work. You have to build a team. Not just draft best available and kill their development in the process. Gordon is a tweener who's has the talent to become a good NBA player. He doesn't have a real NBA position. He's too small to be a PF even if he successfully play it in spurts. He is a developing talent he has gotten much better at shooting open shots. He really battles on the boards and he's active on defense and an aggressive off the ball defender. Now his team defense could improve. His BBIQ is a work in progress but hell, he's only 20-21, that's the case for most. He works very hard to be more of contributor and I see that. Lacking size, it's unlikely he can be a PF and he doesn't really have the skill to be a SF in most NBA systems so he will likely top out as a starting level player for the most part. His pairings are generally bad but unlike Oladipo, he isn't bad for winning Basketball, he's just really damn young and raw at this stage. I would even say very good NBA player with the right personnel pairings which of course, Orlando lacks. He is one player who is very raw but talented nonetheless. Skiles likes him but even knows he's not a legit starter on even a lottery bound team and this is the player you think can get you a player of Jeff Teague's caliber. Seeing how you see Basketball in general, you probably don't even know what his caliber is.
This is why I said, when you are fans of bad teams, you can really think too highly of your prospects. They are PROSPECTS, they aren't developed and their is no guarantee they will be either to be better than what they are now. I still remember when Atlanta was young. You had guys like Marvin Williams and Josh Smith. You still had fans talking about how great each of these guys will be in three to four years. While Josh did become effective. He never developed into the star the surface based fans said but he was better than what I thought which is what he eventually became. Marvin simply was a bad fit. Honestly, he came to Atlanta a decade too late. This team would be perfect for him. He would fit what we do but not in the 2000's. Bad management, asset collecting and of course, the overpay and the realization that you are screwed with this roster and no one became what the management had hoped.
