Trade Discussion

[TeamTragic]

I just can't understand it..his value isn't even that good when he's NOT acting like an entitled baby. And now that he's a complete drain on the franchise we're still gonna hold out for some marginal upgrade that isn't coming anyway? I'd trade him for a bag of ball at this point. If they could get a full $8M expiring for him it'd be a huge win. Just get the **** done.

He's not good enough on the court to be worth all the hassle, and the perceived 'extra value' we'd get if he was at peak trade value isn't worth the hassle. This marriage just needs to end.

What the hell are you talking about? We are not dumping Kieff for garbage (that is what a bad GM would do) just because emotions are high. This is a business and McD is not in the business of doing horrible trades just for fun.

If these "contenders" want to make improvements then they will have to give us a nice package. Otherwise we continue tanking into the off-season. We are in no hurry and McD is not here to make other teams better.

Call it what you want but Kevin Love or Victor Oladipo or anybody who's actually worth anything isn't coming through that door in a deal for Kieff. You guys can dream all you want about dealing Chandler/Tucker/Kieff for some savior but it's not gonna happen. Every person here who is on the "keep Kieff til we get full value" kick thinks he's netting a package that is wildly unrealistic. There's no reason for it.

No doubt about that at this point in time. However if we can package Kieff/Chandler/Knight (or Bledose) in the off-season then we can get a better deal. Right now we are asking for the moon because there are multiple teams out there that will make the play-offs and will not get past the first round. You know who you are treadmill teams.

Even Atlanta has given up on their current squad and want to rebuild. This season is done and gone. Keep playing the youth and re-evaluate this off-season. I know that this process is slow as **** but it is the only option. We need patience more than we need a "savior" trade.

[lilfishi22]

I'm super conflicted about Kieff and have been since he threw a tantrum after Mook was moved. On the one hand, he's shown he can be very unprofessional, he's been a total non-factor virtually this entire season and he doesn't seem to be invested in this franchise. On the other hand, he's still a legitimately talented player who still seems to like his team mates for the most part.

In his last 5 gms (post-Hornacek departure), he's putting up what I had expected him to be averaging at this point in his career, 35mpg, 45FG%, 5.8FTA, 7.7RPG, 4.6APG, 1SPG, 1.4bpg and 20.6ppg. This is the player we were expecting him to be when we signed him.

Compared that to the 30 or so games prior that he played with Hornacek, 23mpg, 38FG%, 2.0FTA, 4.9RPG, 2.0APG, 1SPG, 0.3bpg and 10.2ppg. You can see why I am reluctant to sell him for anything less than his true value. I want to get good value for him so if he isn't moved because we're not getting the kind of package we want, then I wouldn't be mad if we kept him on.

[jcsunsfan]

I just can't understand it..his value isn't even that good when he's NOT acting like an entitled baby. And now that he's a complete drain on the franchise we're still gonna hold out for some marginal upgrade that isn't coming anyway? I'd trade him for a bag of ball at this point. If they could get a full $8M expiring for him it'd be a huge win. Just get the **** done.

He's not good enough on the court to be worth all the hassle, and the perceived 'extra value' we'd get if he was at peak trade value isn't worth the hassle. This marriage just needs to end.

What the hell are you talking about? We are not dumping Kieff for garbage (that is what a bad GM would do) just because emotions are high. This is a business and McD is not in the business of doing horrible trades just for fun.

If these "contenders" want to make improvements then they will have to give us a nice package. Otherwise we continue tanking into the off-season. We are in no hurry and McD is not here to make other teams better.

Call it what you want but Kevin Love or Victor Oladipo or anybody who's actually worth anything isn't coming through that door in a deal for Kieff. You guys can dream all you want about dealing Chandler/Tucker/Kieff for some savior but it's not gonna happen. Every person here who is on the "keep Kieff til we get full value" kick thinks he's netting a package that is wildly unrealistic. There's no reason for it.

I am not even talking about it anymore. We have all voiced our opinions on what should happen. Talk about it if you like, but we will find out in a few days.

[letsgosuns]

There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.

[BobbieL]

Gambo has spoken. If this trade rumor doesn't tell you how far Gambo has fallen - nothing will. His sources, because "he is always working the phones, working the phones and I have a very, well high p'laced source.."

Gay for Kieff

First off, Teletovic or Tucker would have to be included

Second - why would the Suns take on a worse player plus, they have TJ Warren at SF or PJ Tucker

I just don't see this one

[Sunsdeuce]

Bottom line is Markieff is worth whatever another GM is willing to give up. We all may think he has value but if the other GMs don't see it that way, Ryan isn't going to get what he "thinks" or we think Keiff is worth.

One key element that I see a lot of people missing is his off the court worth. That plays a big factor. This isn't just about stats is all I'm saying when calculating a players value.

Let me give 2 examples: Fitz (Larry Fitzgerald) is probably getting paid way more than what he is worth but what he brings to the community is worth more than what he is getting paid.

2) Burfict: the dude is extremely talented but he does stupid things that hurt his team especially in the most important times (Cinny vs Pitt). So his value is only what a coach and GM will put up with.

[harshey1388]

Gambo has spoken. If this trade rumor doesn't tell you how far Gambo has fallen - nothing will. His sources, because "he is always working the phones, working the phones and I have a very, well high p'laced source.."

Gay for Kieff

First off, Teletovic or Tucker would have to be included

Second - why would the Suns take on a worse player plus, they have TJ Warren at SF or PJ Tucker

I just don't see this one

The way Gambo has handled this Markeiff situation is pathetic. What a child.

[Christine-In-AZ]

It means no one outside the front office has a clue.

As it should be.
Melikes

[jcsunsfan]

There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.

There was a huge difference between the Horry towel throwing incident and the Kieff one. The reports of Kieff throwing the towel were that he threw it in Horny's general direction. Horry ended up covering Ainges head with it. The team penalty was the same. Two games. Horry was traded. The Suns are also trying to trade Markieff. The Suns got decent value for Horry in Ceballos.

Horry was suspended for two games without pay by the Suns this week for the incident involving Ainge during a game last Sunday night.

The altercation occurred when Horry was pulled after missing a 3-point shot. He screamed obscenities at Ainge and threw the towel before being restrained by teammates.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-01-11/sports/9701110013_1_cedric-ceballos-suns-forward-clifford-robinson

[letsgosuns]

Gambo has spoken. If this trade rumor doesn't tell you how far Gambo has fallen - nothing will. His sources, because "he is always working the phones, working the phones and I have a very, well high p'laced source.."

Gay for Kieff

First off, Teletovic or Tucker would have to be included

Second - why would the Suns take on a worse player plus, they have TJ Warren at SF or PJ Tucker

I just don't see this one

Gambo has barely been right about anything regarding the Suns moves since McDonough took over. Hopefully that stays true in regards to this rumor. I absolutely hate that trade idea.

[GetYourPHX]

There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.

I think fans really need to cool it on the assault charge stuff. First - no one even knows what happened that day. Let the legal process work itself out before you judge. The whole situation surrounding the case is really sketchy. There are almost no witnesses and even the person who got assaulted is on record saying "he's not sure" whether Kieff and Marcus were involved. Why should the Suns punish their players when it hasn't been proven that they've done anything wrong?

Second, and maybe I'll catch some flak for this, but I agree with Kieff that the Suns negotiated the Mo Bro's contract in bad faith. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but the Twins gave us a discount in order to play together. Their agent **** up by not getting a no-trade clause, but I honestly understand where Kieff is coming from. Trading his brother was a questionable move by the front office that went contrary to a wink-nudge term of those contracts.

Third, and this is going to sound like I'm insulting you which really isn't my intention, but I'm guessing you never played organized sports. The throwing the towel stuff, getting into it with Archie, that stuff just happens on sports teams. It happened on my teams back in High School, and it even happens on the rec teams I play on now. Sports bring out a lot of emotion in people and I really don't think Kieff has crossed the line too far yet.

Has Kieff been overly emotional? Yes. Does he need to rein it in? Yes.

But none of that changes the fact that he's a good player on a good contract. Successful franchises find a way to get the most out of their talent, and the Suns are failing at that with Kieff. Time to put the onus on the FO to take care of their boys - it's the only way we're going to be successful long term.

[Christine-In-AZ]

No one heard jack about us going after Aaron Gordon until it was dead and had it happened, we all would have been shocked.

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

[TeamTragic]

No one heard jack about us going after Aaron Gordon until it was dead and had it happened, we all would have been shocked.

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

Magic FO thinks his trade value is "higher" after the dunk contest

[letsgosuns]

There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.

There was a huge difference between the Horry towel throwing incident and the Kieff one. The reports of Kieff throwing the towel were that he threw it in Horny's general direction. Horry ended up covering Ainges head with it. The team penalty was the same. Two games. Horry was traded. The Suns are also trying to trade Markieff. The Suns got decent value for Horry in Ceballos.

Horry was suspended for two games without pay by the Suns this week for the incident involving Ainge during a game last Sunday night.

The altercation occurred when Horry was pulled after missing a 3-point shot. He screamed obscenities at Ainge and threw the towel before being restrained by teammates.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-01-11/sports/9701110013_1_cedric-ceballos-suns-forward-clifford-robinson

They got value for Horry for two reasons.

First off, the Lakers wanted to get rid of Ceballos because of that whole water skiing incident with him. "And a desire to be in the spotlight had alienated many teammates and apparently led to his going AWOL to Lake Havasu last season." http://articles.latimes.com/1997-01-11/sports/sp-17533_1_cedric-ceballos

Secondly, Robert Horry was a two-time NBA champion and a fantastic role player. He played a key role on the Rockets championship teams. He was the perfect stretch four to play with Shaq. He ended his career as one of the greatest role players in NBA history and one of the most clutch. Markieff has done what in this league so far? Caused more harm than good. Never even been in the playoffs.

[RaisingArizona]

No one heard jack about us going after Aaron Gordon until it was dead and had it happened, we all would have been shocked.

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

Dunk contest, apparently... I still think that's

[Kerrsed]

No one heard jack about us going after Aaron Gordon until it was dead and had it happened, we all would have been shocked.

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

Magic FO thinks his trade value is "higher" after the dunk contest

Actually, the Magic have always been high on Gordon. I mean they did draft him with the #4 pick and all. He was and has been seen as their future. He is one of the main reasons why they were looking to and did trade Harris. He was seen to the organization as almost untouchable, and since the Dunk contest, further cemented that.

[King4Day]

Gambo has spoken. If this trade rumor doesn't tell you how far Gambo has fallen - nothing will. His sources, because "he is always working the phones, working the phones and I have a very, well high p'laced source.."

Gay for Kieff

First off, Teletovic or Tucker would have to be included

Second - why would the Suns take on a worse player plus, they have TJ Warren at SF or PJ Tucker

I just don't see this one

He probably has @Woi as his source

[letsgosuns]

There is a lot more at stake here than getting value back for Markieff. I think this is about self-respect as an organization. Markieff has done so many bad things starting last year with him and his brother's felony aggravated assault charges and the Suns have done nothing. The Morris brothers were never internally punished for anything. After everything they did, there has been zero consequences. This is the opposite of holding players accountable for their actions.

Sarver and McDonough look like they have no backbone. Blake Griffin, who is a true superstar and MVP caliber player, received swift internal punishment from the Clippers owner for an off the court incident. Not only that, but the team released a public statement saying how this is not the kind of organization they are.

Did Marcus or Markieff ever get punished for their actions in supposedly beating up that guy? No. Did Marcus getting suspended for verbally abusing Hornacek on National TV? No. Did the Morris brothers get punished for destroying the fan base publicly last year after the Suns got destroyed by the Spurs? No. Did Markieff get punished for bad mouthing the organization all Summer and demanding a trade? No. The league fined him but the Suns did nothing. Markieff received a two game suspension for throwing a towel at Hornacek. Robert Horry threw a towel at Ainge and was traded days later. Did the Suns come out and punish Markieff for attacking Goodwin during a game? No. Zero accountability. At this point, Markieff practically can do whatever he wants (including tanking games) and the Suns will smile and say this guy is great. He is our leader. We love Markieff and he can do no wrong and he is the greatest guy in the league. What a joke. Thanks a lot Mr. Sarver and Mr. McDonough. You guys sure know how to run an NBA franchise.

I think fans really need to cool it on the assault charge stuff. First - no one even knows what happened that day. Let the legal process work itself out before you judge. The whole situation surrounding the case is really sketchy. There are almost no witnesses and even the person who got assaulted is on record saying "he's not sure" whether Kieff and Marcus were involved. Why should the Suns punish their players when it hasn't been proven that they've done anything wrong?

Second, and maybe I'll catch some flak for this, but I agree with Kieff that the Suns negotiated the Mo Bro's contract in bad faith. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but the Twins gave us a discount in order to play together. Their agent **** up by not getting a no-trade clause, but I honestly understand where Kieff is coming from. Trading his brother was a questionable move by the front office that went contrary to a wink-nudge term of those contracts.

Third, and this is going to sound like I'm insulting you which really isn't my intention, but I'm guessing you never played organized sports. The throwing the towel stuff, getting into it with Archie, that stuff just happens on sports teams. It happened on my teams back in High School, and it even happens on the rec teams I play on now. Sports bring out a lot of emotion in people and I really don't think Kieff has crossed the line too far yet.

Has Kieff been overly emotional? Yes. Does he need to rein it in? Yes.

But none of that changes the fact that he's a good player on a good contract. Successful franchises find a way to get the most out of their talent, and the Suns are failing at that with Kieff. Time to put the onus on the FO to take care of their boys - it's the only way we're going to be successful long term.

I grew up playing organized sports for many years. I do not mind the fight honestly. I mind where and when it happened. It was during a game. That is not good. If it was an isolated incident then fine, not a big deal. But before that he recently got into it with Hornacek on the bench and ended up throwing a towel at him. Those are two incidents in a close time frame. Top that off with him disciplining Goodwin for lack of hustle looks terrible considering Markieff tanked the whole season.

Tom Chambers said in the post game show he used to fight with his teammates but never in a game and that was not a good thing to happen. It was just an ugly situation made worse by everything else Markieff did leading up to that.

I also agree with you in that I think the Suns negotiated with the Morris brothers and promised to keep them together. That is why I criticized Sarver and McDonough. They do not know how to run an NBA franchise.

[Christine-In-AZ]

No one heard jack about us going after Aaron Gordon until it was dead and had it happened, we all would have been shocked.

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

Magic FO thinks his trade value is "higher" after the dunk contest

Thank you for the point illustration guys

[bwgood77]

We went after Aaron Gordon?

Why is it "dead" now?

Magic FO thinks his trade value is "higher" after the dunk contest

Thank you for the point illustration guys

When I read Lukas' quote I thought he might have had a few drinks. I never saw anything indicating us being after Gordon. No way Orlando would ever trade him anyway.