Trade Discussion

[phnart]

It will carry over to next year and still be 1-9 protected all the way until 2021.

Thanks!

[MrMiyagi]

For every "terrible" draft, there are always good finds in the mid to late 1st round. 2013's top 10 was pretty uninspiring but the Bucks found Giannis, and the Jazz found Gobert.

We have to hope that McDonough can find another Warren or Booker in the 10-14 range. His one bad pick so far has been Tyler Ennis, who has been absolutely useless.

Yup. There are no bad drafts. Only bad drafters. And while I m not all happy with McD, I'll give this to him - he has been good at drafting.

I wouldn't say that there are no bad drafts. Some years just don't have many guys who do much in their NBA careers and some years have a lot guys who go on to do a lot. That being said, there are almost always guys who go late who would be taken higher if the draft was redone. I trust McD to find those guys.

[RunDogGun]

For every "terrible" draft, there are always good finds in the mid to late 1st round. 2013's top 10 was pretty uninspiring but the Bucks found Giannis, and the Jazz found Gobert.

We have to hope that McDonough can find another Warren or Booker in the 10-14 range. His one bad pick so far has been Tyler Ennis, who has been absolutely useless.

Yup. There are no bad drafts. Only bad drafters. And while I m not all happy with McD, I'll give this to him - he has been good at drafting.

I wouldn't say that there are no bad drafts. Some years just don't have many guys who do much in their NBA careers and some years have a lot guys who go on to do a lot. That being said, there are almost always guys who go late who would be taken higher if the draft was redone. I trust McD to find those guys.

There are too many guys who lack the fundamentals to do well in the NBA, usually because they haven't been coached well, or their egos are tough to coach. So they get drafted because of the potential to do well, and some never mature to that level. Way too many one and done players coming into the league. Some do very well, as they come into a stable system with coaches who are established, and players who can teach on the court.

Booker has done a great job adjusting to the changes of the NBA, and seems smart enough to advance his career. It's so much harder to find a superstar in the draft.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For every "terrible" draft, there are always good finds in the mid to late 1st round. 2013's top 10 was pretty uninspiring but the Bucks found Giannis, and the Jazz found Gobert.

We have to hope that McDonough can find another Warren or Booker in the 10-14 range. His one bad pick so far has been Tyler Ennis, who has been absolutely useless.

Yup. There are no bad drafts. Only bad drafters. And while I m not all happy with McD, I'll give this to him - he has been good at drafting.

Im with you guys in that's it's silly to predict a "good" or "bad" draft in February. Heck it's kind of pointless to do it immediately after the draft. 2013 was considered an all time weak draft and while it hasn't been great it's much closer to average than bad. 2014 was looked at as an all time great draft but injuries and bad play has that draft looking average at best right now. Last year's draft was viewed as slightly above average but it looks like it could be one of the beat classes in a long time.

[Sunsdeuce]

He looks good in his new uniform......because it ain't a Suns uni, lol.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/washwizards/status/700839002203680768[/tweet]

[saintEscaton]

He looks good in his new uniform......because it ain't a Suns uni, lol.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/washwizards/status/700839002203680768[/tweet]

Our unis are so aesthetically unpleasing

[Sunsss]

Our unis are so aesthetically unpleasing

Is there anything you like about us?

[saintEscaton]

Our unis are so aesthetically unpleasing

Is there anything you like about us?

The pickles on the cold nacho cheese. Delish

[RaisingArizona]

Why are some of you still not donning a bag on your avi?

[bwgood77]

Well, Orlando has gotta be happy getting Illy and Jennings for Harris. They each have 16 tonight. Harris does have 21, though, but it hasn't helped much, as the Washington Queefs are killing the Detroit Mooks.

Washington actually goes to Miami tomorrow to play their third game in three nights. They won the first two though, beating Utah and Detroit fairly easily. If they beat Miami tomorrow, they will be in decent shape to make the playoffs. Not that I care if they make it, but I'd like them to at least think they can so they don't try and keep their pick at the end. Plus, there is always the chance if they stay in the lottery that they luckily jump to top 3 and keep their pick.

[HootieRules]

“Today we added another first-round pick to our collection of picks while keeping our young core intact,” said Suns General Manager Ryan McDonough. “We are excited to watch this group of players continue to develop and grow together.”

Somebody tell this dude you can't throw out the word "core" when the "core" changes every single year.

Nothing this franchise does would ever please you. Just let go,man.

Not true. Devin Booker might turn out to be a nice player. That was a good value pick.

For a franchise on pace to have its worst winning percentage since its inaugural season in the 60s, and for a franchise that sells its (at times gullible) fanbase on a new "core" every single year, there's obviously not a whole lot for rational, reflective fans to be pleased about.

[bwgood77]

Somebody tell this dude you can't throw out the word "core" when the "core" changes every single year.

Nothing this franchise does would ever please you. Just let go,man.

Not true. Devin Booker might turn out to be a nice player. That was a good value pick.

For a franchise on pace to have its worst winning percentage since its inaugural season in the 60s, and for a franchise that sells its (at times gullible) fanbase on a new "core" every single year, there's obviously not a whole lot for rational, reflective fans to be pleased about.

Funny you mention that, because rsavaj posted a BSotS column on the Wiz forum today and while reading it, I laughed at something that was quoted from McDonough saying on September 28, 2014, right after signing the twins.

"We value stability," GM Ryan McDonough said at the time. "We don't want to be a team that turns their roster over every year, especially unnecessarily. We wanted to get our core take care of."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/2/18/11054838/foolishness-timeline-of-morris-destruction-phoenix-suns

[BobbieL]

Nothing this franchise does would ever please you. Just let go,man.

Not true. Devin Booker might turn out to be a nice player. That was a good value pick.

For a franchise on pace to have its worst winning percentage since its inaugural season in the 60s, and for a franchise that sells its (at times gullible) fanbase on a new "core" every single year, there's obviously not a whole lot for rational, reflective fans to be pleased about.

Funny you mention that, because rsavaj posted a BSotS column on the Wiz forum today and while reading it, I laughed at something that was quoted from McDonough saying on September 28, 2014, right after signing the twins.

"We value stability," GM Ryan McDonough said at the time. "We don't want to be a team that turns their roster over every year, especially unnecessarily. We wanted to get our core take care of."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/2/18/11054838/foolishness-timeline-of-morris-destruction-phoenix-suns

little did he know how badly they would change to the detriment of the team..

hard to pull either the Pistons or Wiz to make playoffs
but since the Suns get the Wiz pick and I don't trust ping pong balls in Phoenix (Coyotes got screwed too ) come on Wiz!

[Frank Lee]

The revolving 'core' ???

We have two or three young hopefuls. with a couple more on the way. Odds say, with these 5 tots, 2 will succeed/contribute significantly. McDoodle cannot afford to muff up this draft. He scored big with the WizPick... is there a gem at 10+ ?

BTW, I do not consider Bledsoe or Knight part of a core. I think a healthy Bled will be traded as he is likely to walk when given the chance. And I have z e r o faith in Knight to be anything more than a 6th man... but they are good assets and with the expanding cap, could net us more picks... Im all for blowing this **** up.

A small hope in me says land #3 and draft Dunn.... just to facilitate the exit of our pseudo PGs.

[carey]

Funny you mention that, because rsavaj posted a BSotS column on the Wiz forum today and while reading it, I laughed at something that was quoted from McDonough saying on September 28, 2014, right after signing the twins.

"We value stability," GM Ryan McDonough said at the time. "We don't want to be a team that turns their roster over every year, especially unnecessarily. We wanted to get our core take care of."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/2/18/11054838/foolishness-timeline-of-morris-destruction-phoenix-suns

I honestly still believe the twins would be here if they weren't such a-holes. Seems like as soon as they signed those contracts all the bad things in their personality became magnified. More technical fouls, more yelling, assault charges, towel throwing... and those are just the things we know about. Would you take a bet that there are more things that have not been made public that would make us shake our heads?

[carey]

The revolving 'core' ???

We have two or three young hopefuls. with a couple more on the way. Odds say, with these 5 tots, 2 will succeed/contribute significantly. McDoodle cannot afford to muff up this draft. He scored big with the WizPick... is there a gem at 10+ ?

There are a lot of players I like there. Diamond Stone, Sabonis, Rabb could be there which would be amazing, Skal (though admittedly he has a long, long way to go), Hield, and one of my personal favorites Melo Trimble.

[bwgood77]

Funny you mention that, because rsavaj posted a BSotS column on the Wiz forum today and while reading it, I laughed at something that was quoted from McDonough saying on September 28, 2014, right after signing the twins.

"We value stability," GM Ryan McDonough said at the time. "We don't want to be a team that turns their roster over every year, especially unnecessarily. We wanted to get our core take care of."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/2/18/11054838/foolishness-timeline-of-morris-destruction-phoenix-suns

I honestly still believe the twins would be here if they weren't such a-holes. Seems like as soon as they signed those contracts all the bad things in their personality became magnified. More technical fouls, more yelling, assault charges, towel throwing... and those are just the things we know about. Would you take a bet that there are more things that have not been made public that would make us shake our heads?

Oh, I'm quite sure of it. I worked with a guy that went to KU and he said without question "These guys are bad news. Just wait."

[NavLDO]

I got to give props to the posters in the Crow Eating thread on the Trade board (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1428340#start_here).

As i said in another thread with posters eating crow:



Its the #1 Crow that people are eating. Also if you check out the Trade Deadline Win/Loss thread, most people have us (and Detroit) being the big winners of the day.

McD is McDoing it right!

OK, "Spinsters" out there, let's hear how McD 'screwed the pooch' again. I'm ready for another 'list' of McDoWrongs, and how he didn't play this right, like how he should have traded Morris earlier and would've gotten as much or more out of him, or how Kieff's presence this 1st 2/3 of the season has set this team 'back 3 years', or whatever other fabrication you'd like to make, because by all accounts, per other RealGMers and Media-Personalities, McD 'outperformed' expectations by getting two expirings (with both combined being overall cheaper, to boot!), and a potential 1st Rd Lottery Pick.

But of course, it was his fault that we were in this position to begin with, right? And while highly biased, this list of 'entities' that were 'disrespected' by the Morrii, provided by a popular Suns Blog is fairly accurate:

•an opposing player
•the referees
•their own coach
•the media
•(allegedly) a former mentor
•all the fans who paid less than a grand for their seat
•the Suns front office
•bandwagon fans
•the judge presiding over their case
•their entire Suns experience
•their agent
•the Suns front office, again
•the Suns fans, again
•Markieff's coaching staff... again
•his own "little brother"

And before I get accused of being a McD-homer, no, he wasn't blameless, and made several mistakes along the way, and reacted poorly to many of these issues, but the fact remains, the Morri caused a much higher number of infractions than McD did, and McD was forced to 'react' to the Morri issues. As soon as the Morri got paid, the situation just went down hill. So sure, we can blame McD for even signing the Morri at all, but let's face it, 99% of Suns fans thought we got a bargain with their signings, and we had almost zero indication that they would turn 'stupid' on us almost overnight.

No, McD screwed up the IT/Dragic situation, and made a poor trade at the deadline last year IRT the LAL pick-for-Knight, that counter-balanced the two good trades he made with 2-1sts for Dragic and a 1st for IT, yet he CAUSED those trades by signing IT to begin with, but, this year? He made out like a bandit. And for the 2nd year in a row, walked away with good draft picks for disgruntled assets, the difference being, THIS year, he wasn't at fault for the disgruntled player; KieffMo/CusMo brought this on by themselves, and are disgruntled because they didn't like how he responded to their idiocy.

McD CAN be blamed for mishandling Dragic (though it turned out great for us in the long run, but that's 'Hindsight's 20/20' at its best, and he can't claim credit for seeing the future 'woes' of Dragic's play); but, he CANNOT be blamed for mishandling the Morri. They, again, caused their misfortune; McD was just stuck having to 'clean up their mess'.

So, let's hear it! Love McD or Hate McD--neither extremes of the "McD Spectrum" can change the fact that McD walked away from this mess with respect from fans and media alike. But the funny thing is, at the end of the day, if one were to look ONLY at BoxScores in 30 years, it will likely look like McD lost on this deal, because I have little doubt that Kieff will do great things for the Wizards, and it wouldn't surprise me if he eventually gets a 3rd-Team All-NBA, or a couple of All-Star Game invites when Kieff's career is over; it's too bad he couldn't do it for us...

So..a half dozen paragraphs to fish for a fight from someone?

Not 'fishing for a fight' at all; just hoping for a debate. My idea or purpose, after reading the "Eating Crow" post from Kerrsed, was to see if even ONE poster would admit that McD got it right. Seems funny to me that non-Suns fans can come out and 'eat their crow', yet those supposed Suns fans, that have been blasting McD for weeks, are all of a sudden just 'whistling in the park' and ignoring the fact that McD got it done, pretending they haven't raked McD over the coals.

The post did exactly as I suspected; "fans" more worried about a snarky response than admitting that McD did well, and appreciating the fact that the Suns just got better. And the reason it was long was to ensure, as I've been accused of before of being a McD apologist, to make it clear that I am not, so yeah, I front loaded it to illustrate my overall opinion.

So thank you and others for doing exactly as I suspected; come at me with, again, a snarky response, as opposed to a reasoned, thought out argument for WHY my opinion on McD is wrong.

So it's just sad to me, is all...that a poster would rather be seen as being 'right', than appreciate our GM for doing good things. So yeah, my post did exactly as I hoped it would, and prove my theory 'right'. 24 hours and not ONE poster coming out and saying "yep, McD nailed this one and was wise to wait until the deadline to get the deal done" as opposed to him trading Kieff for a lesser package. McD did the same last year; he waited until the last possible moment to agree to a deal. He was 2 for 3 last year in getting good value for Dragic and IT, and while IT has exploded in Boston to become an All-Star, it still doesn't change the "net" gained; he traded a 2nd and filler, and 6 months later, he got a 1st and some filler. The Dragic trade looked good as well, at the time, but ultimately turned into a great deal.

So, here's a history of McD Trades:

Kieff...for...2016, (Picks 1-9 Protected) 1st, + Humphries(Expiring) and Blair (Filler) -- Net Positive (For BOTH teams)
CusMo, Bullock, Granger...for...2020 2nd Rd Pick (Unprotected) and $8.4M Cap Space -- Suns-Net Equal, Pistons-Net Positive
2015 2nd Rd Pick...for...Jon Leuer -- Suns-Net Positive
Goran and Zoran Dragic...for...2018 1st (Protected 1-7) and 2021 1st (Unprotected)+ 3 Fillers, and Cash -- Net Positive
IT...for...2016 1st (Cleveland, so about 28th Overall) and Marcus Thornton -- Net Positive (For BOTH teams)
Ennis, Plumlee, LAL 1st (Protected 1-3)...for...Knight and Filler -- Net Negative
Shavlik Randolph...for...Reggie Bullock -- Net Who Cares???
2-2nd Rd Draft Picks (One of which from Minny acquired in a different trade)...for...Brandon Wright -- Net Negative (IMO, we lost Wright in FA, so Wright was a 3 Month Rental that didn't move the needle for us, hence, we gave up 2 picks for nothing)
Tolliver...for...Mitchell -- Net Negative (but who really cares, I guess)
Emeka Okafor, 2nd Rd Pick...for...IT -- Net positive, overall. IT gave us good minutes, and we got a 1st later for him)
Gortat, Brown, Lee, and Marshall...for...2014 1st Rd Pick and Emeka Okafor -- Net Negative...big time thanks to Ennis
Caron Butler...for...Ish, Kravtsov -- Net Positive (We got good minutes from Smith)
Scola...for...Green, Plumlee, 2014 1st (AKA Bogdanovic)-- Net HUGE Positive
Dudley, 2nd Rd Pick...for...Bledsoe, Butler -- Net HUGE Positive
Nemanja Nedovic (30th pick) ...for...Archie Goodwin, Malcolm Lee's Contract --Net Positive

So, there are the trades McD has made since being here. If I missed one or made a mistake on the terms, I apologize. If we count 'Net Equals' or 'Who Cares?' as ties, IMO, McD has scored 9-4-2 in his trades, and if we were to provide "weights" to the overall impact, for instance, Bledsoe trade as a weight of 3, and the Randolph-for-Bullock as a weight of 1, than those numbers look even better, as McD has really only "LOST" one 'big' deal, and that was the LAL pick trade, but considering we received TWICE as much value than that pick with the 2 Heat 1sts, that trade is easily 'balanced out'.

So, yes, I posted a long post yesterday, and have done it again, to prove a point. And all I received were snarky responses, and not ONE reply of even "Well, yes, I was wrong about this, BUT, I was RIGHT about 'such' and 'such' "

I'll stand down now, because all this does is apparently cause 'hate and discontent', rather than Suns fans appreciating what a new, young GM has accomplished, in spite of his mistakes and errors. He's cleaned them up as bet he could, and has even himself, admitted he's made some mistakes along the way. Yet a good many Suns' fans on this forum would rather be petty and just highlight McD's issues than even ONCE say "You know, I was wrong, McD made a wise choice to wait until the end of the deadline."

And BTW, this is not directed at those that did recognize as much, because one or two have, but more than not, have just moved along to the next opportunity they will be able to 'pick' at McD.

And here is some for those that think I can't admit to being wrong, which I did a couple of days ago. I thought Horny was a great HC, but no, I was WRONG. I thought the Knight trade last year was a good trade, I was WRONG about that, too. And I thought McD was right to bring in IT, and thought that was a great idea, and while overall, things have turned out well, the fact is, it was a bad idea, even if we did make 'profit' from the IT trade in; we caused some bad press and hurt feelings...I was WRONG there, too.

And one last note. We are REBUILDING, and should expect to perform 'poorly' during this time, and are likely 'tanking'. So no, this team is NOT what their record says they are. So to me, that argument point is faulty, at best.

[saintEscaton]

McD redeemed himself a little by holding off long enough to salvage something of value for Kieff, but I don't think we made off like bandits or that this appeasement compensates for his slew of consecutive blunders. Still has a way to go to earn back our trust. There I gave him some credit happy?

[Damkac]

Our "core" is Booker, Warren and Len (maybe Archie). Every other player on this team could be traded in the offseason for me.

For every "terrible" draft, there are always good finds in the mid to late 1st round. 2013's top 10 was pretty uninspiring but the Bucks found Giannis, and the Jazz found Gobert.

We have to hope that McDonough can find another Warren or Booker in the 10-14 range. His one bad pick so far has been Tyler Ennis, who has been absolutely useless.

Yup. There are no bad drafts. Only bad drafters. And while I m not all happy with McD, I'll give this to him - he has been good at drafting.

Im with you guys in that's it's silly to predict a "good" or "bad" draft in February. Heck it's kind of pointless to do it immediately after the draft. 2013 was considered an all time weak draft and while it hasn't been great it's much closer to average than bad. 2014 was looked at as an all time great draft but injuries and bad play has that draft looking average at best right now. Last year's draft was viewed as slightly above average but it looks like it could be one of the beat classes in a long time.

And going back to 2011 it was considered very bad yet it had Kawhi, Butler, Klay, even IT at 60th.