2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC

[Dark Faze]

Two years, 20 million PER--can't imagine anyone matching that.

There's nobody else worth going after but Cousins. Harden too if you can manage it. The other guys..Blake isn't coming. You don't want to overpay Millsap. Eh. Two years of Gasol and then DMC2DC.

You're talking per? I was talking total. He's 35, it would be insane to offer him a contract at $20 million per. He makes a little less than $8 million now. We'd double his current salary easily with a $15 mil per year offer.

His age doesn't matter unless you're giving him a long term contract. When its only a 1-2 year deal? You can't hold his age against him given his numbers of late. You look at what guys are making now--he's going to want market value.

[Ruzious]

At that age, he could lose it overnight. I can't imagine anyone offering him anywhere near 20 mil per year - especially considering how low his previous contract was for. If we could get him MUCH cheaper, he might be part of a solid Plan C/D/E or F. Something to consider.

[pcbothwel]

I still look to make a run at Whiteside and Horford. If KD re-ups for one year and we strike out on those two, then I use the cap space to:
1) re-sign Beal to slightly below max contract that gives us the most room possible in summer of 2017 (Like Melo did with Knicks)

2) Sign Sato to 3/12M deal

3) Sign vet C to 1 year prove-it contract. My first inclination is Joakim Noah. Why? The bulls are clearly stepping back and rebuilding around Butler so I doubt he resigns. He plays with energy and runs the floor well and could thrive with Wall (See Gortat).

4) Sign backup PF that didnt get minutes or played for a bad team to the same kind of deal as Noah (I.E. Jon Leurer, Nicholson, Jason Thompson, Humphries, Arthur, etc.)

5) Rinse and repeat for PG as well. Wall and Sato could handle most, but someone like Lawson, Jarret Jack, Augustin, or Aaron Brooks could do the trick

Wall / Jack / Sato
Beal / Sato
Otto / Oubre
Morris / Leurer
Gortat / Noah

I think that lineup keeps us relevant in 16/17 (assuming Beal, Otto, and Oubre make improvements). It then allows us to go into Summer of 2017 with a starting lineup set and 25M in cap space that can quickly become 33M if we trade Morris or 40M if we trade/dont sign Otto. Griffin, KD, Ibaka, and Gallinari will all be tempting.

Code: Select all

Brad Beal                $22,000,000
John Wall                $18,063,850
Otto Porter (Hold)       $14,734,953          
Marcin Gortat             $12,782,609    
Markieff Morris            $8,000,000       
Satoransky                $4,000,000
Kelly Oubre                $2,093,040
2017 Cap Hold (#20)       $1,350,000          
Min Cap Hold             $2,000,000       
Total Salary             $85,024,452    
Cap Space                $24,975,549


[stevemcqueen1]

- Extend Beal
- Extend Sessions
- Extend Dudley
- Extend Temple
- Sign Courtney Lee or Jamaal Crawford.
- Sign Ryan Anderson
- Sign Tyler Zeller or Ian Mahinmi. Or if we have the money, Joakim Noah.

PG: Wall, Sessions
SG: Beal, Crawford/Lee, Temple
SF: Porter, Dudley, Oubre
PF: Morris, Anderson
C: Gortat, Zeller/Noah/Mahinmi

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm intrigued by the thought of adding Noah to the locker room.

- Would he be willing to continue coming off the bench here and playing 20-25 MPG?
- How much would it cost to sign him?

I think he might be cheap compared to a guy like Mahinmi. Mahinmi is obviously in his prime and is coming off a career year. Noah is on his way out. So a 1+1 show me deal to come in here and be a culture changer and sixth man of the year candidate could help get us over the hump. It'd also be insurance against a potentially disastrous Gortat injury.

Wall & Beal as the offensive firepower + a top defense = a legit team. I want to figure out how to cement the defense as good so that what we've seen the past two games isn't just a fleeting tease.

My other big goals would be to build an incredible bench by finding a high quality back up for Beal, and finding a really good PF to timeshare the position with Morris. Morris is only like a 26-28 MPG player, there are at least 20-22 MPG to be had at PF, plus Morris is probably also going to be playing some center, opening up even more PF minutes. I'd love to sign Anderson to committee the position with Morris, but he might be looking for an opportunity to start and play 30+ MPG, which we couldn't really offer.

I could live with keeping Neal to be Beal's back up again because I don't think you can ever have enough 40% three ball shooters on your roster. But I would love to get a really good back up as Beal injury insurance. Courtney Lee would be nice. Jamal Crawford is old and possibly going to retire, but maybe he'd want to try and make one last run. Between one of them, Sessions, Dudley, and a quality back up PF, that would be a lot of offensive punch on the bench.

Don't think we'll be able to get Ryan Anderson though.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, Anderson's a fine player, but he's going to get paid - it's been guestimated he'll start at 18 mil, and I'd have a hard time anteing up for that for a PF who has obvious defensive limitations and rebounds poorly. But there is no perfect player out there other than Durant.

I would go after Horford. He's as good a fit as we'll find, and I really like his all-around game - though his rebounding numbers have steadily decreased for some reason. He's even added a 3 point shot to his game this season. He defends well, can play with pretty much any kind of big - would especially fit great with Gortat, passes real well, makes 55% of his 2's. He doesn't get to the line much and he'll turn 30 in June, but again - there are no other perfect players. If he's gettable, he'd definitely be my Plan B after Durant.

[stevemcqueen1]

Yeah, Anderson's a fine player, but he's going to get paid - it's been guestimated he'll start at 18 mil, and I'd have a hard time anteing up for that for a PF who has obvious defensive limitations and rebounds poorly. But there is no perfect player out there other than Durant.

I would go after Horford. He's as good a fit as we'll find, and I really like his all-around game - though his rebounding numbers have steadily decreased for some reason. He's even added a 3 point shot to his game this season. He defends well, can play with pretty much any kind of big - would especially fit great with Gortat, passes real well, makes 55% of his 2's. He doesn't get to the line much and he'll turn 30 in June, but again - there are no other perfect players. If he's gettable, he'd definitely be my Plan B after Durant.

We're a team of generalists, not specialists. And as such, it becomes difficult for us to fit in specialists like Anderson. We don't have a rotation-worthy defensive and rebounding specialist to play next to him. He'd have an enormous positive effect on our offense. But I don't know how well we could cope with his negative effect on the defense. I think Porter would have to grow a ton as a defensive player to make up for Anderson.

So as good as his offensive game is--and I think it's good enough he could be a sixth man of the year in the right situation--he's probably not going to be worth 18 million a year to us.

But he would be worth that to Detroit or Sacramento. Those are his obvious destinations this summer. Detroit if he wants to play in the right scheme and fit AND win, Sacramento if he wants to find a good fit and play at home. Even if Sacramento ends up losing Cousins, they'll still have Cauley-Stein, who is an ideal big to play next to Anderson. SVG and Andre "Poor Man's Prime Dwight" Drummond with Stanley Johnson at SF makes even more sense IMO.

Horford would be an amazing acquisition. A game changer. He'd be the second best player on the team immediately. If Bradley Beal, Marcin Gortat, and Otto Porter are suddenly your third, fourth, and fifth best players respectively, that's a loaded team. Easily better than any starting five Atlanta has ever put around Horford before.

I wouldn't have any worries about his fit because Horford too is a generalist who could fit in any scheme and bring net positive value to any team.

I'm also not that worried about his age. He has a bad injury history, but he keeps himself in great shape and his game is built to age well.

The only thing is he seems to love Atlanta. Zach Lowe said he's interested in finding a city with a large Dominican community, but that he is also interested in the fifth year that Atlanta can offer him. New York, Miami, and Boston all have much larger Dominican communities than the DC metro area. Philly and Orlando have bigger ones too. This kind of non-basketball consideration hurts us in comparison to the franchises from those areas. Atlanta has a smaller one than DC, but it's only a difference of about 5,000. I think that, for us to sign Horford, we need to structure our pitch around continuity roster and FO continuity and pure basketball reasons. The first would be hard to do if we fire our coach and GM and make large roster changes. The second is hard to do because our coaching staff is weak. It's really hard to beat the fifth year Atlanta can offer AND Mike Budenholzer. Plus, if he wants to stay at center for the majority of his minutes, that eliminates us.

[stevemcqueen1]

Just thinking about how the front court minutes would be divided if we signed Horford:

- Horford is a 30 MPG player that's interchangeable at center and PF, but is a more natural center.
- Gortat is a 30 MPG player that's a pure center.
- Morris is a 26-28 MPG player that's a power forward that can play center only in very small line ups.

I think it could work if Horford splits time almost evenly between PF and C. There'd be about 8 minutes per game leftover, probably at PF, that you could give to an Otto Porter or Jared Dudley to go small.

Signing Horford would give us an awesome three man group of bigs. A durable one too. Ever since Horford figured out what was causing his pectoral issues he's been a rock, and so have Gortat and Morris. I think we would also ensure that Wall gets to spend his late 20s playing with a high quality front court.

I am 100% in support of making Horford the plan B if/when Durant re-ups in OKC.

[dckingsfan]

My other big goals would be to build an incredible bench by finding a high quality back up for Beal...

Satoransky?

[nate33]

If we sign Horford, we wouldn't also be able to sign Dudley.

I'm not strongly opposed to a Horford signing, but I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it either. I don't think Horford is a max player when he is at the PF position, so we wouldn't really be getting full value out of him. I'd rather pass on 2016 free agency, sign guys to 1-year deals, and try again in 2017.

[Illmatic12]

Just thinking about how the front court minutes would be divided if we signed Horford:

- Horford is a 30 MPG player that's interchangeable at center and PF, but is a more natural center.
- Gortat is a 30 MPG player that's a pure center.
- Morris is a 26-28 MPG player that's a power forward that can play center only in very small line ups.

I think it could work if Horford splits time almost evenly between PF and C. There'd be about 8 minutes per game leftover, probably at PF, that you could give to an Otto Porter or Jared Dudley to go small.

Signing Horford would give us an awesome three man group of bigs. A durable one too. Ever since Horford figured out what was causing his pectoral issues he's been a rock, and so have Gortat and Morris. I think we would also ensure that Wall gets to spend his late 20s playing with a high quality front court.

I am 100% in support of making Horford the plan B if/when Durant re-ups in OKC.

Horford, Gortat and Morris isn't enough rim protection imo.

I would definitely go after Horford with a 4yr max offer. Then would move Gortat's contract, and try to package Porter for a young rim protector before he hits RFA (if only the Wiz had just drafted Noel..)

[Ruzious]

If we sign Horford, we wouldn't also be able to sign Dudley.

I'm not strongly opposed to a Horford signing, but I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it either. I don't think Horford is a max player when he is at the PF position, so we wouldn't really be getting full value out of him. I'd rather pass on 2016 free agency, sign guys to 1-year deals, and try again in 2017.

Throughout his career, it's been said of Horford - and I think correctly - that he's a natural PF playing out of position at center. The game has changed the last couple of years - but not to the extent that he'd be worse at PF - especially since he's developed an adequate 3 ball. I think he's equally excellent at both positions - and that versatility makes him all that more valuable - AND a great fit as Steve pointed out. It isn't easy to find an excellent player who's also a great fit.

On Alexander - to what Steve was saying - the odd thing is - he should have been a great fit with Anthony Davis, so I'm not sure why that hasn't worked. Maybe if they had both stayed healthy, it would have.

[Ruzious]

Just thinking about how the front court minutes would be divided if we signed Horford:

- Horford is a 30 MPG player that's interchangeable at center and PF, but is a more natural center.
- Gortat is a 30 MPG player that's a pure center.
- Morris is a 26-28 MPG player that's a power forward that can play center only in very small line ups.

I think it could work if Horford splits time almost evenly between PF and C. There'd be about 8 minutes per game leftover, probably at PF, that you could give to an Otto Porter or Jared Dudley to go small.

Signing Horford would give us an awesome three man group of bigs. A durable one too. Ever since Horford figured out what was causing his pectoral issues he's been a rock, and so have Gortat and Morris. I think we would also ensure that Wall gets to spend his late 20s playing with a high quality front court.

I am 100% in support of making Horford the plan B if/when Durant re-ups in OKC.

Horford, Gortat and Morris isn't enough rim protection imo.

I would definitely go after Horford with a 4yr max offer. Then would move Gortat's contract, and try to package Porter for a young rim protector before he hits RFA (if only the Wiz had just drafted Noel..)

Gortat's an underrated defender, and I think he does do a solid - if unspectacular - job of protecting the rim. The last 2 games have been good examples.

[Ruzious]

If we sign Horford, we wouldn't also be able to sign Dudley.

I'm not strongly opposed to a Horford signing, but I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it either. I don't think Horford is a max player when he is at the PF position, so we wouldn't really be getting full value out of him. I'd rather pass on 2016 free agency, sign guys to 1-year deals, and try again in 2017.

Throughout his career, it's been said of Horford - and I think correctly - that he's a natural PF playing out of position at center because the Hawks couldn't find a real center. The game has changed the last couple of years - but not to the extent that he'd be worse at PF - especially since he's developed an adequate 3 ball. I think he's equally excellent at both positions - and that versatility makes him all that more valuable - AND a great fit as Steve pointed out. It isn't easy to find an excellent player who's also a great fit.

On Alexander - to what Steve was saying - the odd thing is - he should have been a great fit with Anthony Davis, so I'm not sure why that hasn't worked. Maybe if they had both stayed healthy, it would have.

[Illmatic12]

Just thinking about how the front court minutes would be divided if we signed Horford:

- Horford is a 30 MPG player that's interchangeable at center and PF, but is a more natural center.
- Gortat is a 30 MPG player that's a pure center.
- Morris is a 26-28 MPG player that's a power forward that can play center only in very small line ups.

I think it could work if Horford splits time almost evenly between PF and C. There'd be about 8 minutes per game leftover, probably at PF, that you could give to an Otto Porter or Jared Dudley to go small.

Signing Horford would give us an awesome three man group of bigs. A durable one too. Ever since Horford figured out what was causing his pectoral issues he's been a rock, and so have Gortat and Morris. I think we would also ensure that Wall gets to spend his late 20s playing with a high quality front court.

I am 100% in support of making Horford the plan B if/when Durant re-ups in OKC.

Horford, Gortat and Morris isn't enough rim protection imo.

I would definitely go after Horford with a 4yr max offer. Then would move Gortat's contract, and try to package Porter for a young rim protector before he hits RFA (if only the Wiz had just drafted Noel..)

Gortat's an underrated defender, and I think he does do a solid - if unspectacular - job of protecting the rim. The last 2 games have been good examples.

I think he's properly rated - most would consider him 'solid' or 'somewhat above average' on defense. He's very good on certain nights when he takes his 1v1 matchup personally (Drummond, Monroe, Howard, Cousins are great Cs and Marc always seems to play them well). But he also takes a lot of nights off, in terms of energy and hustle around the rim.

Gortat is a strong, physical 1v1 defender and can body up on bigger players. But he's too often slow to recover on help defense (even on the broadcast, you can too often hear Wall cursing him out for falling asleep on D, lol). With our team not being loaded with strong perimeter defenders, I'd rather have an athletic behemoth in the middle who's better at cleaning things up. Especially if we're talking about bringing in Horford who isn't the most physical guy either or a shotblocker - I'd rather pair him with an Ezeli type C.

[Ruzious]

I can't say I agree with all that, Ill. We do have strong perimeter defenders, and Horford's certainly a willing and able physical defender - though he's not a big-time shot-blocker and better suited to play PF. Ezeli does a great job in a limited role, but I'll take Gortat over him. If we have Horford AND Gortat, I don't wory about interior defense - at least until they start showing some age.

[Illmatic12]

The Wiz have one of the worst perimeter defenses in the league currently, and are a bottom 3 rebounding team. And Wittman has already chosen to close multiple games with Nene instead of Gortat, because of the gap in their defensive ability.

So it would take some convincing for me to believe that a Horford/Gortat frontcourt would provide adequate defensive presence and rebounding, given the rest of the team construction.

If we had an Ariza or Jae Crowder-type lockdown guy at the wings, I could be more confident. But our perimeter players give up too much dribble penetration and put a lot of pressure on the frontcourt to defend and rebound. I just don't feel like there's enough athleticism, defense and rebounding coming from a Horford/Gortat/Morris frontcourt - personally.

[Ruzious]

The Wiz defense fell off from top 10 each of the last 2 seasons (I think they were ranked 5th and 9th in defensive efficiency) mainly because they've been playing without a PF this season. Any team with Wall, Beal and Otto has the ability to be an outstanding perimeter defensive team. All 3 are very good to outstanding perimeter defenders. Porter's not going to be miss-used at the 4 very much anymore - unless the other team uses perimeter players at the 4. Granted, some of their backups - other than Temple - are poor, but most will be gone next season. And Oubre has the potential to become an outstanding defender.

[payitforward]

I'm trying to think -- when was the last time we brought in an outstanding FA? Gortat was a FA of course, but he was already playing for us.

But... no worries. This off-season Durant is going to pick us out of the crowd of non-entity franchises 'n sign here. 'N once he signs, it'll be flood. Everyone will want to play here. We'll even be able to make clever trades -- maybe get a mid-R1 pick for a sub-par guy like Markieff Morris? Whaddya think?

[TheSecretWeapon]

I'm trying to think -- when was the last time we brought in an outstanding FA? Gortat was a FA of course, but he was already playing for us.

But... no worries. This off-season Durant is going to pick us out of the crowd of non-entity franchises 'n sign here. 'N once he signs, it'll be flood. Everyone will want to play here. We'll even be able to make clever trades -- maybe get a mid-R1 pick for a sub-par guy like Markieff Morris? Whaddya think?

Pierce was a good signing. Before that, probably Arenas.