Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season '15-'16 Part III

[slick_watts]

there's some interesting possibilities in the offseason. sam's going to have to go nuclear and take risks to improve the roster at this point. he's going to feel the pressure to do so.

[spearsy23]

there's some interesting possibilities in the offseason. sam's going to have to go nuclear and take risks to improve the roster at this point. he's going to feel the pressure to do so.

He basically 'went nuclear' last year and managed to make all of the wrong moves, now we're really at the mercy of other GM's due to our lack of assets.

[bondom34]

Looking at the schedule, there is a shot the Clips overtake them within 2 weeks.

[Zagor]

It is very clear now this is not championship team or any close to that level. They are just KD - Russ and Others.
Sam Presti - Billy Donovan - Dion Waiters.

Sam Presti brought Billy and Dion. He is responsible for many things.
Anyone who watches Boston Celtics clearly can see what coach like Brad Stevens can do. I mean, with no superstars and with no all stars, they are playing on excellent level. They don't have center/PF who can "boss" the defense but they play very good defense.

Billy is not Vinny Del Negro or Sam Mitchell, he is not "OMG bad", but he also isn't top coach. He doesn't have his system. Little less stuborn then Brooks, with some better offense and with worse defense. So, he isn't improvment from level of Brooks. And THAT is sad.

So this is another bad decision from Sam Presti. Bringing rookie coach who wasn't famous for system in college. Rick Pittino's boy right? And Pittino was bad as coach in NBA.
Presti should have known better from that. Some of veteran coaches, some Pop's student....anyone who was part of NBA last 5-6 years.
Not this. We are utterly screwed.

Dion Waiters.
He is like Kendrick Perkins without defense. Yeah, that bad. Some people say for Roberson that it's like playing 4 on 5.
It's a lie. Playing with Dion is like playing 4 on 5. We all know everything about him. Never ever gave him a sole minute to play.
Play Morrow, Singler or even Huestis. Dion is cancer.

I don't understand why did Thunder sign Kanter if they don't intend to draw actions for that guy. He is one of best skilled big guys....and what Billy does with him? His role can play Bismack Biyombo....catch the offensive rebound.
To root for Thunder is like rooting for Arsenal in football. It is always story with potential and it is always "next season".
Sado Mazo.

[Bergmaniac]

That third quarter by Waiters was some of the worst basketball I've ever seen in the NBA. No exaggeration. He just did everything wrong. He took really dumb shots early in the shot clock and missed by a mile on all of them, he made dumb turnovers, he missed layups by meters, he was lost on D throughout. How the hell he stayed in throughout the quarter is just baffling. Cleveland didn't even try to guard Dion on the perimeter and he still couldn't make a shot. Or a layup. You could see in his face he was completely out of rhythm.

Obviously he wasn't the only reason for the loss, but he completely killed the Thunder's offense pretty much single-handedly after Westbrook's dunk has made it a 4 point game and he couldn't guard anyone all night.

[Pillendreher]

Enough that you think he singlehandedly caused a 20 point blowout? Frankly, that's just stupid. This is exactly the type of game that shouldn't be used to justify making a move, if we lost by 3 points then it makes sense to bitch and moan.

Also, this is what you guys asked for when you wanted Scott fired seehow that works?

Ignorance indeed is bliss. This fits right into the whole season. Our wings have sucked except Roberson and it's been like that since the start of the season. Everybody knew that issue needed to be addressed, but apparently you didn't.

Everybody still knows the wings need addressed, and everybody with any luck of sense knows we don't have the assets to adequately address them right now. But go on believing PJ Tucker beats the Zcavs single-handedly.

And whose fault is the lack of assets? We've turned all our assests into **** over the last 12-13 months. That's on Presti and solely on Presti. We have about six wings and only Durant and maybe Roberson can be put on the floor. The other guys aren't playing at an NBA-level, yet we're still getting more **** players every year. Every other damn team has at least one decent/serviable wing, but we just don't. And it's been like that ever since Martin left. That's just Presti **** up our roster to a point where we have about five scrubs and that Kanter contract as trade assets. That's it. No picks, no young talents, no nothing.

------------------------------------------------------------

Robes with the rest of the starters: +21.5
Waiters with the rest of the starters since Roberson's injury: +9.4
Waiters with the rest of the starters overall: +12.1

Waiters has spent 289 of his 343 minutes since Roberson's injury with both KD and Westbrook on the floor. The team has been 5.1 better with him off-the-floor during that span (defense improves by 9.1; good defender my ass) and he's been shooting terribly.

Dion needs to be removed from the rotation. It's inexcuseable to even play a guy like that, especially for a contender. And I don't know what's worse: That this is all Billy or that Presti is telling Billy what to do.

[Pillendreher]

How the hell he stayed in throughout the quarter is just baffling.

I really hope that's Billy giving Presti the finger as in 'See what you have me working with?'. Not even Donovan can be stupid enough to not see how bad Waiters is. I just can't believe that.

[Old Man Game]

I just want to see Presti unload some of this trash this off season. Let Dion walk. Move Kanter if you're able. Maybe throw Singler in too if possible. Obviously, do not pick up Huestis' option in October so we can wait him out. The only guard on the bench that's worth keeping at all is Payne.

To move Kanter you would need to give up assets.
To move Singler you would need to give up assets.
We are stuck with them unless we are willing to give up a 1st round pick or Payne.

This team is trash.

The only way we can solve our problem of lack of depth is trading on of big 4.

I think Kanter is still tradeable without giving up other assets. You might not get much back in return but there's some GM that would see those per 36 points and rebounds and think he could turn him around.

[Dadouv47]

Trading Kanter could be a huge factor in durant's decision. It's our only option to significantly improve the team.

[kraytinprime]

Thunder gave up:

James Harden (4x ALL-Star, 2x ALL NBA 1st Team, 2nd in MVP voting 2015)
Reggie Jackson ( 19/6/3 - 21 PER, boarderline ALL Star)
Lance Thomas ( 46% FG, 40% 3FG, 87%FT, 6'8" wing)
2016 1st Round Pick
2017 1st Round Pick

Thunder got:

Kevin Martin for 8 months
Jeremy Lamb - did nothing for us
Steven Adams - solid starter
McGary - does not even play
Kanter - can't play defense
Singler - crap
Waiters - crap
Foye - crap

So instead of having a top5 player, plus a boarderline All-Star, plus a good bench wing, plus 2 1st round picks we have 1 solid starter in Adams and a bunch of crap.

Harden + Jackson = $29.6 million
Waiters/Singler/Foye/Kanter = $29.1 million

The amount of screw up by Presti the last 4 years has been epic

[kraytinprime]

Trading Kanter could be a huge factor in durant's decision. It's our only option to significantly improve the team.

Who could we realistically get for Kanter?

The dude is owed $18 million the next 3 years. Who the hell wants that contract for a guy who can't even get more than 20 minutes per game because of his horrible defense? Who the hell is going to pay a bench big man $18 million a year? And then give up valuable assets for the privelage to pay that ridiculous contract? No one.

The Thunder are absolutely screwed. Our 2016 and 2017 1st round picks are gone. We can't trade away our 2018 1st round pick either. We have ZERO assets except our core of KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Adams.

IMO, the only way to significantly improve this team is to trade either Ibaka or Adams. Those are the only guys who have significant value besides Russ/KD. But both only have 1 year left on their deal so their value will also be less.

We are absolutely screwed.

[Old Man Game]

Trading Kanter could be a huge factor in durant's decision. It's our only option to significantly improve the team.

Who could we realistically get for Kanter?

It's hard to speculate. It probably wouldn't be anything of worth. Some expiring contracts and maybe trade him to a team with cap space to absorb the difference. BUT, it would clear him off our books which is what is important.

[Dadouv47]

Trading Kanter could be a huge factor in durant's decision. It's our only option to significantly improve the team.

Who could we realistically get for Kanter?

The dude is owed $18 million the next 3 years. Who the hell wants that contract for a guy who can't even get more than 20 minutes per game because of his horrible defense? Who the hell is going to pay a bench big man $18 million a year? And then give up valuable assets for the privelage to pay that ridiculous contract? No one.

The Thunder are absolutely screwed. Our 2016 and 2017 1st round picks are gone. We can't trade away our 2018 1st round pick either. We have ZERO assets except our core of KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Adams.

IMO, the only way to significantly improve this team is to trade either Ibaka or Adams. Those are the only guys who have significant value besides Russ/KD. But both only have 1 year left on their deal so their value will also be less.

We are absolutely screwed.

So what we do? trade KD,WB, and ibaka and start rebuilding ?
Didn't say it would be easy to trade kanter. Just saying we have to, and it could open a lot of options for us.
Don't think trading Ibaka or Adams are good ideas. Adams is ready to compete at a high level and Ibaka provides too much value for this team ( despite his really bad year).
Only great player we have that i think we should consider to deal if we get great value in return is payne ( I know most OKC's fans wont agree with that). But if we can trade kanter and payne for a great SG and an average back up center, i would do it ( great SG, not average, otherwise i prefer to keep payne).

[kraytinprime]

Trading Kanter could be a huge factor in durant's decision. It's our only option to significantly improve the team.

Who could we realistically get for Kanter?

The dude is owed $18 million the next 3 years. Who the hell wants that contract for a guy who can't even get more than 20 minutes per game because of his horrible defense? Who the hell is going to pay a bench big man $18 million a year? And then give up valuable assets for the privelage to pay that ridiculous contract? No one.

The Thunder are absolutely screwed. Our 2016 and 2017 1st round picks are gone. We can't trade away our 2018 1st round pick either. We have ZERO assets except our core of KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Adams.

IMO, the only way to significantly improve this team is to trade either Ibaka or Adams. Those are the only guys who have significant value besides Russ/KD. But both only have 1 year left on their deal so their value will also be less.

We are absolutely screwed.

So what we do? trade KD,WB, and ibaka and start rebuilding ?
Didn't say it would be easy to trade kanter. Just saying we have to, and it could open a lot of options for us.
Don't think trading Ibaka or Adams are good ideas. Adams is ready to compete at a high level and Ibaka provides too much value for this team ( despite his really bad year).
Only great player we have that i think we should consider to deal if we get great value in return is payne ( I know most OKC's fans wont agree with that). But if we can trade kanter and payne for a great SG and an average back up center, i would do it ( great SG, not average, otherwise i prefer to keep payne).

You are truly living in a dream land.

No team will give us a GREAT SG and average back up center for a 2nd year PG and a below average center with a max contract. The problem is the Kanter contract is for THREE MORE YEARS at $18 million.

I don't think we could even trade away Kanter/Payne in a salary dump. Most teams would want either a great player of 1st round pick to swallow Kanter's horrible contract. Really its that bad. Go find me a single team that would be willing to pick up that horrible contract? There is none unless you give assets along with it.

Kanter's contract is Perkins level bad. In order to get rid of Perkins we had to trade away an All star level guard (Jackson) and a 1st round pick. And Perk only had 1 year left on his deal. Kanter has THREE.

We are stuck with Kanter's deal for at least another year.

We are absolutely stuck unless we trade one of our core 4 (KD, Russ, Ibaka, Adams)

[bondom34]

Yeah, you'll be able to trade Kanter.

[kraytinprime]

Yeah, you'll be able to trade Kanter.

For what? Give me a realistic trade with a specific team.

[Dadouv47]

Who could we realistically get for Kanter?

The dude is owed $18 million the next 3 years. Who the hell wants that contract for a guy who can't even get more than 20 minutes per game because of his horrible defense? Who the hell is going to pay a bench big man $18 million a year? And then give up valuable assets for the privelage to pay that ridiculous contract? No one.

The Thunder are absolutely screwed. Our 2016 and 2017 1st round picks are gone. We can't trade away our 2018 1st round pick either. We have ZERO assets except our core of KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Adams.

IMO, the only way to significantly improve this team is to trade either Ibaka or Adams. Those are the only guys who have significant value besides Russ/KD. But both only have 1 year left on their deal so their value will also be less.

We are absolutely screwed.

So what we do? trade KD,WB, and ibaka and start rebuilding ?
Didn't say it would be easy to trade kanter. Just saying we have to, and it could open a lot of options for us.
Don't think trading Ibaka or Adams are good ideas. Adams is ready to compete at a high level and Ibaka provides too much value for this team ( despite his really bad year).
Only great player we have that i think we should consider to deal if we get great value in return is payne ( I know most OKC's fans wont agree with that). But if we can trade kanter and payne for a great SG and an average back up center, i would do it ( great SG, not average, otherwise i prefer to keep payne).

You are truly living in a dream land.

No team will give us a GREAT SG and average back up center for a 2nd year PG and a below average center with a max contract. The problem is the Kanter contract is for THREE MORE YEARS at $18 million.

I don't think we could even trade away Kanter/Payne in a salary dump. Most teams would want either a great player of 1st round pick to swallow Kanter's horrible contract. Really its that bad. Go find me a single team that would be willing to pick up that horrible contract? There is none unless you give assets along with it.

Kanter's contract is Perkins level bad. In order to get rid of Perkins we had to trade away an All star level guard (Jackson) and a 1st round pick. And Perk only had 1 year left on his deal. Kanter has THREE.

We are stuck with Kanter's deal for at least another year.

We are absolutely stuck unless we trade one of our core 4 (KD, Russ, Ibaka, Adams)

Some rebuilding teams could gamble on kanter's contracts.
He's clearly overpaid, but you need to take into account the new salaries and cap space going up. Some teams will pay batum and Ryan Anderson almost the max. Not comparing them to kanter, but it just shows how the new contracts are going to be crazy. So yeah, kanter is overpaid but not as bad as it looks.
Cavs managed to trade terrible varejao's contract for almost nothing.
At the end, it will be harder to move singler than kanter

[bondom34]

Yeah, you'll be able to trade Kanter.

For what? Give me a realistic trade with a specific team.

Any team that gets no free agents this summer.

Every team in the NBA will have 20+ mil to spend. NBA GMs have never once shown that if they miss every free agent available they just let that money under the cap sit there with nothing tied up. So any team that doesn't get Durant, Horford, Conley, or Dwight has 20 mil sitting there with nothing to do. One of them will take him for cap space.

[kraytinprime]

So what we do? trade KD,WB, and ibaka and start rebuilding ?
Didn't say it would be easy to trade kanter. Just saying we have to, and it could open a lot of options for us.
Don't think trading Ibaka or Adams are good ideas. Adams is ready to compete at a high level and Ibaka provides too much value for this team ( despite his really bad year).
Only great player we have that i think we should consider to deal if we get great value in return is payne ( I know most OKC's fans wont agree with that). But if we can trade kanter and payne for a great SG and an average back up center, i would do it ( great SG, not average, otherwise i prefer to keep payne).

You are truly living in a dream land.

No team will give us a GREAT SG and average back up center for a 2nd year PG and a below average center with a max contract. The problem is the Kanter contract is for THREE MORE YEARS at $18 million.

I don't think we could even trade away Kanter/Payne in a salary dump. Most teams would want either a great player of 1st round pick to swallow Kanter's horrible contract. Really its that bad. Go find me a single team that would be willing to pick up that horrible contract? There is none unless you give assets along with it.

Kanter's contract is Perkins level bad. In order to get rid of Perkins we had to trade away an All star level guard (Jackson) and a 1st round pick. And Perk only had 1 year left on his deal. Kanter has THREE.

We are stuck with Kanter's deal for at least another year.

We are absolutely stuck unless we trade one of our core 4 (KD, Russ, Ibaka, Adams)

Some rebuilding teams could gamble on kanter's contracts.
He's clearly overpaid, but you need to take into account the new salaries and cap space going up. Some teams will pay batum and Ryan Anderson almost the max. Not comparing them to kanter, but it just shows how the new contracts are going to be crazy. So yeah, kanter is overpaid but not as bad as it looks.
Cavs managed to trade terrible varejao's contract for almost nothing.
At the end, it will be harder to move singler than kanter

Big difference.

Varajao is only signed for one more year at $9 million.
Kanter is signed for THREE more years at $18 million.
You are literally committing 6x the cash and 3x the years to Kanter.

Again name me a single team that would be willing to trade for the Kanter contract? Stop with the hypoteticals that some mystery team will. There isn't any. PERIOD. The rebuilding teams don't want to waste $54 million on a center that can't play a lick of defense and will never be a starer. The contending teams know they can't play him more than 20 minutes per game.

No team will pay this guy $18 million to play 20 minutes as a backup. Except OKC of course.

[kraytinprime]

Yeah, you'll be able to trade Kanter.

For what? Give me a realistic trade with a specific team.

Any team that gets no free agents this summer.

Every team in the NBA will have 20+ mil to spend. NBA GMs have never once shown that if they miss every free agent available they just let that money under the cap sit there with nothing tied up. So any team that doesn't get Durant, Horford, Conley, or Dwight has 20 mil sitting there with nothing to do. One of them will take him for cap space.

those teams under the cap will simply trade for a player with a shorter term contract (less than the 3 years remaining on Kanter's deal) or simply pay the salaries to their current players.

No one wants to tie up $18 million for the next 3 years on a Center who can't defend and can't stay on the court longer than 20 minutes per game. And no one will give anything of value.

Again tell me a specific team that would trade for Kanter.