Trade Discussion

[Sunsdeuce]

Something I forgot to ask about the pick from Washington. Say it ends up being the 8th pick this year and Suns don't get it. Does it go unprotected next year?

[bwgood77]

Something I forgot to ask about the pick from Washington. Say it ends up being the 8th pick this year and Suns don't get it. Does it go unprotected next year?

No, top 9 protected through 2021. So theoretically we could have the top two picks in 2021 and 2022.

[lilfishi22]

Something I forgot to ask about the pick from Washington. Say it ends up being the 8th pick this year and Suns don't get it. Does it go unprotected next year?

No, top 9 protected through 2021. So theoretically we could have the top two picks in 2021 and 2022.

Ideally #1 and #30

[Sunsdeuce]

What do you think?

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

[Damkac]

Brandon Knight for Goran Dragic ... would you do that trade?

No. Dragic is too expensive and too old. And I have doubt he will ever repeat that one great season he had.

[Moochthemonkey]

Brandon Knight for Goran Dragic ... would you do that trade?

If Booker wasn't drafted, or Bledsoe was gone, then I probably would. would you do this trade:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h32sgvk

do you think the other team would?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Looking at the Washington deal again, I can't believe they want to become more like us.

Continuing to chase the 8th seed when many games behind, not quite sure whether they're rebuilding or contending, trading away rebuilding assets to win now, roster with a mix-match of players ages from Gortat and Nene to Wall and Beal. And of course trading for Markieff who you can't tell whether he helps more with winning or tanking.

[Frank Lee]

But you still have talked your way around the questions I asked, Frank...without answering them, of course. Which was the poor trade? The Pick for Knight, or Dragic for Picks?

Why.... so you and Jboy can point fingers, declare basketball superiority, then backslap each other while humming Hail to the Chief?

But, to humor you ...hoping you wont red ink a thesis, Knight, unnecessary trade that is looking worse...Dragic, a nice band aid move following self inflicted wounds


And by the way, Not to offend you with a liar tag, you have the penchant to use broad fat brush strokes when painting your pictures. Perhaps i don't understand what you think complaining is. Does it has something to do with disagreeing with your opinion on McDontRunWithScissors?

[bwgood77]

Looking at the Washington deal again, I can't believe they want to become more like us.

Continuing to chase the 8th seed when many games behind, not quite sure whether they're rebuilding or contending, trading away rebuilding assets to win now, roster with a mix-match of players ages from Gortat and Nene to Wall and Beal. And of course trading for Markieff who you can't tell whether he helps more with winning or tanking.

Well as we well know, owners and GMs will do anything to try and make the playoffs. With them it's a little more understandable after making it to the second round each of the last two years and having John Wall, especially when there is a bad draft coming up.

Their fans don't think Markieff is a good player, and they are looking at all the numbers of his career, but they haven't watched or seen the ugliness of our roster the last two years with constant turnover, injuries, etc, where no one's numbers have looked particularly good.

It's a hell of a lot better than us trading the Lakers pick for Knight. At least he is half the price, and on a good contract and they didn't give up as good of a pick. They didn't really have a long term PF and he is about the same age as Wall. I kind of thought they might make the playoffs but I didn't think Miami would continue playing so well. It seems a bunch of those fringe playoff teams are playing really well (Indiana, Miami, Charlotte, Chicago) so it will be tough for them to gain ground. I think if they could somehow get up to the 7th seed they'd have a chance against Toronto since they swept them last year.

[Bogyo]

^Well, the 30 (or so) games Beal was injured really did them in. They would be at least 5 games better if he was healthy all year, but hey, thats part of the game (see: Suns, Phoenix). The "older" players they have (Nene, Alan Anderson, Sessions, Duds for example) will expire mostly this year or next, so they'll have tons of capspace. Wall, Beal, Porter, Obure, Kieff and Gortat is not a terrible core for the east. They just need to sign another good player, becouse they wont have good draft picks, nor a lot of tradeable players/contracts if they dont want to gut their team.

[SunsFanSSOL]

I'm curious to see if the Wizard's pick was actually acquired as an asset, not to draft someone. #3, #12, Knight, and Len could make a great offer for Cousins.

[Bogyo]

I'm curious to see if the Wizard's pick was actually acquired as an asset, not to draft someone. #3, #12, Knight, and Len could make a great offer for Cousins.

I think they would have better offers than that - but that takes Boogie to agree to re-sign to the team he is traded to.
The 3rd pick this year and Knight don't does not equal a superstar for me, only if he forces his way here, and Sac really wants to blow it up like the 76ers.

[SunsFanSSOL]

I'm curious to see if the Wizard's pick was actually acquired as an asset, not to draft someone. #3, #12, Knight, and Len could make a great offer for Cousins.

I think they would have better offers than that - but that takes Boogie to agree to re-sign to the team he is traded to.
The 3rd pick this year and Knight don't does not equal a superstar for me, only if he forces his way here, and Sac really wants to blow it up like the 76ers.

Lakers turned down a deal where they would've gotten Cousins for Clarkson, Randle and the #2 pick (which turned into D'Angelo) in the 2015 draft.

I think #3, #12, Knight and Len is comparable. Sacramento is said to want proven talent, which the Sixers lack. I also think Cousins would sign here given that he and Bledsoe grew up together and played at Kentucky together.

[Bogyo]

I'm curious to see if the Wizard's pick was actually acquired as an asset, not to draft someone. #3, #12, Knight, and Len could make a great offer for Cousins.

I think they would have better offers than that - but that takes Boogie to agree to re-sign to the team he is traded to.
The 3rd pick this year and Knight don't does not equal a superstar for me, only if he forces his way here, and Sac really wants to blow it up like the 76ers.

Lakers turned down a deal where they would've gotten Cousins for Clarkson, Randle and the #2 pick (which turned into D'Angelo) in the 2015 draft.

I think #3, #12, Knight and Len is comparable. Sacramento is said to want proven talent, which the Sixers lack. I also think Cousins would sign here given that he and Bledsoe grew up together and played at Kentucky together.

Fair points friend, especially with the Bledsoe/Cousins connection. Althouh I'm on the fence about the value of this years #3, #12, Knight and Len against Claskson, Randle and D'angelo. Would u trade these stragiht up if you were the Lakers (salaries aside)?

[Frank Lee]

The hardest sell in the Valley come summertime will be season tickets. Remember, McDoOrDie has stated in his grand plan, acquiring a superstar was part of the mix. I think its going to be very difficult for Phnx to do that via free agency. Seems logical if we do not get #1 or #2, that the next step would be a packaged deal for that glitzy named star who the marketing department can prop up in lights.

The first W comes at the turnstiles, not on the court.

[Bogyo]

The hardest sell in the Valley come summertime will be season tickets. Remember, McDoOrDie has stated in his grand plan, acquiring a superstar was part of the mix. I think its going to be very difficult for Phnx to do that via free agency. Seems logical if we do not get #1 or #2, that the next step would be a packaged deal for that glitzy named star who the marketing department can prop up in lights.

The first W comes at the turnstiles, not on the court.

Wouldn't be totally against it, as there is no KAT or Wiggins or Lebron or TimmyD in this draft. Depends on who do we get back, what else do we have to give up, who else will sign here after we have that elusive superstar.

Getting Simmons or Ingram means another high lottery pick next year as well I think, which is not a bad option either with McD doing the draft. Just dont let him near trades for combo guards and handling personal issues.

[Sunsdeuce]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ricbucher/status/701819344108425218[/tweet]

You guys see this? I love how Bucher really churched up the twins.

[NavLDO]

@jcsuns, your 100% correct.

Bottom line, if your not winning, your not winning. People can quote all this stuff that Ryan is good at or bad at. This is a results driven sport (just like the NFL or any other major sport). If your product isn't winning games, your not successful.

Right now Ryan's results suck. He's has a few good draft picks but that don't really mean much in a business where winning is all that matters. I mean The way things are going under Ryan, I see Ronnie Price as an interim coach in 3 or 4 years.

@sunsbum I really like what Len can offer. But I see two things that have crippled his potential. 1) obviously injuries. 2) Tyson Chandler. His presence causes Len to have sporadic playing time this hindering Len's development. If it was me in the front office, instead of coddling Markieff and making him the "focus" of the offense, I would have had Len take that role. I mean we suck anyway, might as well see what Len really has.


As for NAV....your never ending paragraphs tend to be a bit to long and quite frankly are annoying. That's why I don't respond to your posts. Make your point and move on. You harp and harp and harp and harp about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again. -- Because I've tried short and sweet, and you can't seem to get it. And again, two years ago you can recognize tanking, and now you can't? The "product" you talk about is a team REBUILDING. It takes TIME to rebuild. You keep missing the point, so I try to explain; break it down into small pieces; you still don't get it. I may be annoying, but at least I'm honest, and don't fabricate things. I'd rather be honest and annoying, than disingenuous and annoying, since all you do is complain "over and over and over and over and over and over again" about the same situation, which again, you ranted on about 2 years ago about how others can't recognize tanking, and here you are, complaining about a team/GM that is what? Oh yeah, TANKING!!!

So I ask three questions:

1.) Are we, or are we not tanking?

2.) Does a tanking team try to win, or employ methods in order to NOT win?

3.) Is it fair to judge a tanking team's GM on said team's record?

BONUS Question: Which roster is better, the roster I posted from 2012-2013, or our current roster? (Please, PLEASE answer with 2012-2013, since it will confirm what we already know.)


My last thought on Ryan: Ryan has some good ingredients In The cupboard but his cooking sucks right now.

I don't think Ryan was tanking coming into the season. The Chandler signing, the trading a likely pretty high pick this year or next for Knight, going for Aldridge, etc. Even a few weeks back he was still talking about being a # of games out of the playoffs. He is tanking now by default because of injuries.

So what we had wanted is not by design, but by default. Sure he has a nice asset or two, and picks that are likely to used by the next GM (except for this year's).

Honestly, I think that Knight trade now looks a bit disastrous, since point guards is the one thing the league is full of good ones with more coming in, and he isn't really a very good passer, AND now we have Booker. He is a backup for Bledsoe I suppose, but it seems we play worse when he plays point because he jacks up too many shots. I don't quite mind Chandler as much for that vet leader, but I still wouldn't call that a great signing. These signings are not as bad money wise as people might think due to the rising cap and our inability to sign impact free agents, but other than making a couple of decent picks and a really nice one, he's created more havoc with the team than brought it together.

For the record, I'm all for keeping him, but he better improve in some areas, and after this draft, we better see some progress or he will be hard pressed to keep his job.

Aahh, the vice of reason between two sides of a heated debate. I see now why they offered you your Mod-ship!

You are absolutely correct, the Knight trade doesn't look very good. I wholeheartedly agree. But if you were to ask, what I'd rather have right now, Knight @ $14M per and the 2x Heat picks, or Dragic @ $17M per on the LAL pick, I'm picking option one, all day, every day!

And you are correct, and I should have explained myself, but I get called out for being too long; when the season started, we were in Re-Tool mode, when Bledsoe went down is when I think McD made the realization that we weren't going to be competitive, and that's when Knight got 'injured' and went for a 2nd opinion, and Price was lost for awhile, then Warren went to "IR", and voila, we are tanking!

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ricbucher/status/701819344108425218[/tweet]

You guys see this? I love how Bucher really churched up the twins.

I did earlier this morning. SF88 posted it to the Wizards forum.

[bwgood77]

Brandon Knight for Goran Dragic ... would you do that trade?

No. Dragic is too expensive and too old. And I have doubt he will ever repeat that one great season he had.

I don't know what his #s were that season, but his last 5 games he is at 18.4, 6.8, 5.2 on 50.7% shooting and 35.7% from 3. Not bad. He is still younger than Nash was in 04-05 and Nash was good for another 5-7 years after that.

I'm not saying I'd want him necessarily for this team that is at least 4-5 years away anyway, but he's a better player right now than Knight. He didn't start out well this season, but he's playing better lately, and plays smart than Knight. Doubles him in WS/48, which is the primary stat to look at per AtheJ415.