ATL: The 2016 Offseason Thread

[humanrefutation]

Gronk be cruisin':

http://deadspin.com/imagine-being-one-of-the-1-600-people-who-didnt-realize-1760536752

I personally don't mind this stuff, but I have a feeling that if Gronk's skin were several shades darker, there would be more criticism headed his way for being a "party boy" who wasn't a good "role model" for the kids.

[ReasonablySober]

Gronk be cruisin':

http://deadspin.com/imagine-being-one-of-the-1-600-people-who-didnt-realize-1760536752

I personally don't mind this stuff, but I have a feeling that if Gronk's skin were several shades darker, there would be more criticism headed his way for being a "party boy" who wasn't a good "role model" for the kids.

This is something Le Batard has been harping on forever. I don't think that's true. I think the reason we don't kill Gronk for partying is two-fold:

1 - He's really, really good. In any business, you're allowed to be a different kind of dude if you're awesome at what you do.
2 - Gronk is a tight end, not a QB. For better or worse, people consider QB the leader of the team and the example for the organization.

Look at Manziel. When he was an amateur he was allowed to sit court-side, party in Vegas, and people excused it. Hell they defended it. But the second he became a backup in the NFL the defenders disappeared and he became a caution case, killed in the media (and that was before it came out that he was an abusive piece of ****).

[crkone]

I think Gronk is doing the party lifestyle the right way. He just likes to have fun and knows when it's time to work, I think. Haven't really looked at his past incidents.

[humanrefutation]

Gronk be cruisin':

http://deadspin.com/imagine-being-one-of-the-1-600-people-who-didnt-realize-1760536752

I personally don't mind this stuff, but I have a feeling that if Gronk's skin were several shades darker, there would be more criticism headed his way for being a "party boy" who wasn't a good "role model" for the kids.

This is something Le Batard has been harping on forever. I don't think that's true. I think the reason we don't kill Gronk for partying is two-fold:

1 - He's really, really good. In any business, you're allowed to be a different kind of dude if you're awesome at what you do.
2 - Gronk is a tight end, not a QB. For better or worse, people consider QB the leader of the team and the example for the organization.

There is a third reason that is either consciously or unconsciously informing the narrative.

Again, I don't particularly care what a player does off the field. Especially for football players, the offseason should be a chance to have some fun.I don't begrudge Gronk for having a cruise. Hell, I actually like the guy.

But I think there is a double standard with how the media treats athletes when it comes to anything outside of pure performance ability. Once you're done playing, then all sorts of biases start informing the narrative.

That doesn't mean everyone will react that way. I think most people try to be consistent. But I believe that if Gronk was brown or black, there would be more scrutiny and hot takes about his off-the-field antics, despite his on the field performance. Guys like Gronk, Favre, Patrick Kane, Manziel (pre-2015), Leinart (pre-NFL), and others are afforded the benefit of the doubt that you don't see for guys like Ochocinco, Michael Irvin, TO, John Wall, Carmelo Anthony, Barkley, etc. Note that all of those guys were seen as top flight players who were excellent performers on the field.

It extends beyond the simple partying characteristic. Cam Newton, who led his team to 15-1 and was the league's MVP, spend half of his season responding to criticism from idiotic letter-writers and media hot takes about his touchdown celebrations. And yet, guys like Rodgers/Favre/Brady were seen as being "intense" and "having fun" when they danced, belted, or cussed up a storm.

Richard Sherman gets hammered for being emotional after the biggest play of his career.
Brady gets pats on the back after screaming "****" a million times on the sidelines.

Cam gets bashed for being short and curt in his post-SB presser.
Belicheck gets nothing for being short and curt during a presser.

I guess what I'm saying is that, from my own eyes, I see this dichotomy and it annoys me.

[ReasonablySober]

Gronk be cruisin':

http://deadspin.com/imagine-being-one-of-the-1-600-people-who-didnt-realize-1760536752

I personally don't mind this stuff, but I have a feeling that if Gronk's skin were several shades darker, there would be more criticism headed his way for being a "party boy" who wasn't a good "role model" for the kids.

This is something Le Batard has been harping on forever. I don't think that's true. I think the reason we don't kill Gronk for partying is two-fold:

1 - He's really, really good. In any business, you're allowed to be a different kind of dude if you're awesome at what you do.
2 - Gronk is a tight end, not a QB. For better or worse, people consider QB the leader of the team and the example for the organization.

There is a third reason that is either consciously or unconsciously informing the narrative.

Again, I don't particularly care what a player does off the field. Especially for football players, the offseason should be a chance to have some fun.I don't begrudge Gronk for having a cruise. Hell, I actually like the guy.

But I think there is a double standard with how the media treats athletes when it comes to anything outside of pure performance ability. Once you're done playing, then all sorts of biases start informing the narrative.

That doesn't mean everyone will react that way. I think most people try to be consistent. But I believe that if Gronk was brown or black, there would be more scrutiny and hot takes about his off-the-field antics, despite his on the field performance. Guys like Gronk, Favre, Patrick Kane, Manziel (pre-2015), Leinart (pre-NFL), and others are afforded the benefit of the doubt that you don't see for guys like Ochocinco, Michael Irvin, TO, John Wall, Carmelo Anthony, etc. Note that all of those guys were seen as top flight players who were excellent performers on the field.

It extends beyond the simple partying characteristic. Cam Newton, who led his team to 15-1 and was the league's MVP, spend half of his season responding to criticism from idiotic letter-writers and media hot takes about his touchdown celebrations. And yet, guys like Rodgers/Favre/Brady were seen as being "intense" and "having fun" when they danced, belted, or cussed up a storm.

Richard Sherman gets hammered for being emotional after the biggest play of his career.
Brady gets pats on the back after screaming "****" a million times on the sidelines.

Cam gets bashed for being short and curt in his post-SB presser.
Belicheck gets nothing for being short and curt during a presser.

I guess what I'm saying is that, from my own eyes, I see this dichotomy and it annoys me.

I guess I don't remember a lot of the guys you mentioned being unfairly slammed. I think it's example of the Twitter echo-chamber where you only hear the voices you seek out. If you're looking for #hotTaeks you can probably find them if you Google it (or simply listen to trolls like Stephen A, Bayless, Cowherd, etc.)

But with regards to Cam, this was the best thing I read regarding him.

Opponents of Cam Newton’s critics easier to find than critics themselves

I'd quote one or two paragraphs, but I won't because the entire thing is perfect.

I've wanted to discuss it for over a month now. I love Bomani Jones and Le Batard, but the extent to which they would discuss Cam's detractors drove me insane. Again, maybe it's the fact I'm not listening to racist troll #hotTaeks or I don't give a **** about a local rag publishing some grandma with an email account, but who are all these detractors?! Literally the only time I head Cam criticized this year was when he didn't give a good interview after the Super Bowl. I heard a lot of people defending Cam from criticizing of the dabs and celebrations, but I never found out who was doing the criticizing in the first place.

[humanrefutation]

But with regards to Cam, this was the best thing I read regarding him.

Opponents of Cam Newton’s critics easier to find than critics themselves

I'd quote one or two paragraphs, but I won't because the entire thing is perfect.

I've wanted to discuss it for over a month now. I love Bomani Jones and Le Batard, but the extent to which they would discuss Cam's detractors drove me insane. Again, maybe it's the fact I'm not listening to racist troll #hotTaeks or I don't give a **** about a local rag publishing some grandma with an email account, but who are all these detractors?! Literally the only time I head Cam criticized this year was when he didn't give a good interview after the Super Bowl. I heard a lot of people defending Cam from criticizing of the dabs and celebrations, but I never found out who was doing the criticizing in the first place.

I think that's a fair point on Cam when it comes to media sources - though I do remember seeing some criticism here and there on ESPN for his dancing being perceived as lacking sportsmanship, especially when that sanctimonious, dog-whistling letter was sent by that Tennessee mom and published.

But the bulk comes from the Twitterverse, and I think when DLB and Bomani are responding, they're responding in particular to the assortment of tweets online which rip Cam to shreds.

And sure, you can say "ignore those idiots!" I can just walk away and pretend their voices don't matter. But they help to shape a narrative, and it actually does impact the public perception of guys like Cam. I don't think Cam gets 1% of the criticism he got after the Super Bowl if that narrative of him wasn't present already.

[RRyder823]

I get the argument but using it in reference to Gronk makes little sense. He HAS been absolutely torn apart in the media for his partying issues.

Not really understanding how someone can think he's gotten it taken easy from the media when I've seen him getting torn to shreds before for going out dancing after a loss. Granted it was a SB loss. But in no way would I say the media is going light on him

[Mags FTW]

Gronk has caught flak on the past. For partying and taking pics with a pornstar.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/photos-rob-gronkowski-porn-star-britney-maclin-aka-bibi-jones-surface-twitter-article-1.1163127

[midranger]

I'll criticize him for looking like the consummate douche bag. You can have fun without looking like Jersey Dhore extra.

[jazzfanWA]

The reason Belichik (sp?) doesn't get criticized is because he has the same demeanor no matter what the situation. Newton celebrates excessively when things are going well then walks out when things are going bad.

[DH34Phan]

If you're going to analyze the Gronk from a racial point of view, I think you're looking WAY too far into it. It's almost race-baiting IMO. There are plenty of black (and brown) athletes and celebrities that act similar. The Rock, Kevin Hart, Shaq, Steve Harvey come to mind. They are pretty well loved by America and don't face a double standard. I'd even throw in Mike Tyson of the last 5 years or so.

[DH34Phan]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

[thomchatt3rton]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

Please do elaborate on this


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[KidA24]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

Please do elaborate on this


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Well, you can start with the fact that they wouldn't have tried to blame the white backup linebacker for sexually harassing a female trainer.

[DH34Phan]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

Please do elaborate on this

I wonder if the 1996 incident with the athletic trainer at Tennessee would have been handled differently had Peyton Manning been black. I definitely don't think it would have 'went away' as easily as it did, considering it is 20 years later and most people are just now learning about what happened.

[RiotPunch]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

Please do elaborate on this

I wonder if the 1996 incident with the athletic trainer at Tennessee would have been handled differently had Peyton Manning been black. I definitely don't think it would have 'went away' as easily as it did, considering it is 20 years later and most people are just now learning about what happened.

If that would have happened in the age of social media, he would have been screwed. His high profile being a top recruit and Archie Manning's kid in addition to Twitter not being a thing is what saved him. Not so much about being white, but that certainly helped him out as well.

[HKPackFan]

Please do elaborate on this

I wonder if the 1996 incident with the athletic trainer at Tennessee would have been handled differently had Peyton Manning been black. I definitely don't think it would have 'went away' as easily as it did, considering it is 20 years later and most people are just now learning about what happened.

If that would have happened in the age of social media, he would have been screwed. His high profile being a top recruit and Archie Manning's kid in addition to Twitter not being a thing is what saved him. Not so much about being white, but that certainly helped him out as well.

I remember it. I remember all my friends discussing it. But we didn't have the facts. We just remember the timing that he was a huge recruit going to be a top pick in the not too distant future and here comes an alleged rape case. A couple friends were just thinking some lady is trying to cash in. We had no details.

And then hush, it was silenced and forgotten.

Agreed it would have been totally different now. With twitter and social media and THE INTERNET, we didn't have THE INTERNET like it is now.

[humanrefutation]

I wonder if the 1996 incident with the athletic trainer at Tennessee would have been handled differently had Peyton Manning been black. I definitely don't think it would have 'went away' as easily as it did, considering it is 20 years later and most people are just now learning about what happened.

If that would have happened in the age of social media, he would have been screwed. His high profile being a top recruit and Archie Manning's kid in addition to Twitter not being a thing is what saved him. Not so much about being white, but that certainly helped him out as well.

I remember it. I remember all my friends discussing it. But we didn't have the facts. We just remember the timing that he was a huge recruit going to be a top pick in the not too distant future and here comes an alleged rape case. A couple friends were just thinking some lady is trying to cash in. We had no details.

And then hush, it was silenced and forgotten.

Agreed it would have been totally different now. With twitter and social media and THE INTERNET, we didn't have THE INTERNET like it is now.

It may be different now in some cases. But stories like this can also be suppressed for years if you have the right influence up top. The most recent allegations at Tennessee, that date back to late 2014, weren't brought to the media spotlight until relatively recently. The Suleiman incidents at Duke were kept quiet until he got kicked off the team late last year. FSU and the Tallahassee Police Department essentially buried the rape investigation involving Jameis Winston for almost a year before it became a national story. And there are an assortment of sordid stories out there about folks that never really make it into the major media due to influence - Barry's been known to use his influence to shield incidents involving coaches and athletes from the public eye.

It's not the same as burying an incident for a decade or more, but sitting on a case for even a year can make a meaningful difference not only in the prosecution of an alleged assailant, but can be just enough for the university and the athlete to profit meaningfully on their achievements before being taken to task.

[Profound23]

Calvin Johnson is due 24 mil on March 9th if still on the roster. This is going to be fun.

[thomchatt3rton]

If you want to examine an athlete who is white, and whose career path could have been different had he been black, I think Peyton Manning would be a fascinating discussion.

Please do elaborate on this

I wonder if the 1996 incident with the athletic trainer at Tennessee would have been handled differently had Peyton Manning been black. I definitely don't think it would have 'went away' as easily as it did, considering it is 20 years later and most people are just now learning about what happened.

I actually had NOT heard about this whole Peyton business when I made my post. My bad for jumping in on something when I didn't know what was going on.