Not enough TALENT. PERIOD.

[slick_watts]

did you list tony parker as a player who can play offense and defense?

[bondom34]

did you list tony parker as a player who can play offense and defense?

More impressive is Kyrie and Richard Jefferson...

[slick_watts]

did you list tony parker as a player who can play offense and defense?

More impressive is Kyrie and Richard Jefferson...

i admit i only glanced over the post.

[bondom34]

did you list tony parker as a player who can play offense and defense?

More impressive is Kyrie and Richard Jefferson...

i admit i only glanced over the post.

They're all pretty much the same. Kinda like BNW, only a different theme.

[spearsy23]

This is the third thread started by the same person about the same topic. Do you have amnesia?

[spearsy23]

Pointless to beat a dead horse but its a fact, the Harden trade will haunt this team. Presti outsmarted himself.

But its not just the Harden trade. Teams had overcome one bad mistake. But its the repeated mistakes by Presti that is killing this team.

1. Drafting McGary when we obviously needed a Wing instead.
2. Trading away a valuable 1st round pick for Dion Waiters.
3. Expecting Waiters to be a key part of a championship team.
4. Signing Kyle Singer to a 5 year 25 million deal, when we know we need someone better on the wing
5. Signing Kanter to a max deal when we obviously need help in the wing.

1. There was no sure thing SG sitting there.
2. This was as dumb trade.
3. You just said that.
4. We didn't have any ability to sign a different wing.
5. We didn't have any ability to sign a wing instead.

[kraytinprime]

Pointless to beat a dead horse but its a fact, the Harden trade will haunt this team. Presti outsmarted himself.

But its not just the Harden trade. Teams had overcome one bad mistake. But its the repeated mistakes by Presti that is killing this team.

1. Drafting McGary when we obviously needed a Wing instead.
2. Trading away a valuable 1st round pick for Dion Waiters.
3. Expecting Waiters to be a key part of a championship team.
4. Signing Kyle Singer to a 5 year 25 million deal, when we know we need someone better on the wing
5. Signing Kanter to a max deal when we obviously need help in the wing.

1. There was no sure thing SG sitting there.
2. This was as dumb trade.
3. You just said that.
4. We didn't have any ability to sign a different wing.
5. We didn't have any ability to sign a wing instead.

1. Rodney Hood was available. He was the concensious best wing available when it was OKC's turn to draft. Hood is 6'8". He is a very good defender who can guard 3 positions, hits 37% 3FG and 88%FT and 14 points per game. That was such a huge miss by OKC and even casual OKC fans knew Hood was the man to take. McGary was a 100% luxury pick. We already had Ibaka, Adams, and Collison. We were lacking severely at the wing.

4. Just because there was no other wing to sign AT THAT TIME does not mean you sign someone for FIVE YEARS and $25 million.

5. Again signing someone to a max deal just because there is no one else to sign is STUPID. Now we are stuck with Kanter's contract and can't do crap. So OKC just locked up $70 million the next 3 years for 2 players that will barely see over 20 minutes per game. Pathetic. And come to think this is the same organization that allowed James Harden to walk because they were unwilling to pay him $1.5 million more per year.

[kraytinprime]

did you list tony parker as a player who can play offense and defense?

enough defense to win multiple titles.

Parker may not be the best defender in the league but he's smart enough to know where he should be. He still has a super high basketball IQ.

[kraytinprime]

I will say that OKC is still the favorite to resign KD. IMO, its a two horse race between OKC and Golden State.

But if OKC keeps playing like crap and gets blown out in the 2nd round of the playoffs, I can see KD leaving.

1. But why would Golden State break up a championship team?

Answer: Because championship teams get old and players lose motivation. Adding a new piece can re-energize a team. Especially when that piece is a top3 player in the entire league. Iggy is 32. Bogut is 32. Barnes will command a $20+ million salary. They have to make moves regardless if they get KD or not.

2. Do dynasty level teams flip their roster like this? Don't they just try to keep everyone?

No. At least no the dynasties that last. The Celtics of the 80's tried to hand on to Bird/McHale/Parish well past their prime and they faded because of that. The real dynasties get rid of aging players and get better players. Look at the roster of the champion 1993 Bulls and then the champion 1996 Bulls:

1993 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Armstrong
Cartwright
Grant
Paxon
Perdue
Williams

1996 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Harper
Kerr
Kukoc
Longley
Wennington
Edwards

Notice that in THREE YEARS the entire roster of the Bulls changed except for Jordan/Pippen. What if the Bulls simply tried to keep their 1993 roster? They needed to overpay to keep Grant and Armstrong. Paxon/Cartwright was too old. Williams was not progressing. Instead the Bulls flipped their entire supporting cast to get younger (Kukoc, Longley) and more athletic (Harper, Rodman).

Steve Kerr knows this. Yes GSW may win back to back but you need to keep improving to keep winning.

3. How much would GSW have to give up to sign Durant?

Not much actually. First they would need to let Barnes walk. This isn't so bad since Barnes wanted a max deal which will be $20+ million a year. That would be a ridiculous price to pay for the 6th best player on a team.

They would need to trade Iguadala. This would be an easy salary dump. What contender would not want an elite level wing for a year? They would then need to trade Bogut or Ezeli. Again both have significant value so it would be an easy salary dump. With those moves GSW would have enough space to sign Durant.

4. What will GSW look like with Durant?

Dynasty level. Possible best team ever level.

Starters:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut or Ezeli

Bench:

Livingston
Looney
Free Agent ring chaser - MLE
Free Agent ring chaser

5. Would Durant going to GSW ruin his legacy?

Nope. What would ruin Durant's legacy is not winning a title. The guy has accomplished everything on an individual level to be an all time great: Rookie of the year, 7x All star, 5x NBA first team, 4x scoring champion. Look at Lebron. Lebron joined a top3 player in Dwayne Wade who already won a championship and was a finals MVP. Also an ALL-Star big man. But it did not ruin his legacy. All that matter was he won titles. Same with Durant. If he is the 1B to Curry's 1A, no one will care. Magic never won a title without Karem. Shaq won 3 with Kobe. Bird won with Parish/McHale. No one wins titles alone. PERIOD.

If Durant goes to GSW and wins 4 titles he will be remembered as a top10 all time player and the 1st or 2nd best small forward of all time. Curry/Durant will be remember as one of the all time great duo's.

Bottom line is Durant does not want to be remember as the greatest player never to win a championship. That would be legacy ruining.

[bondom34]

I may merge this w/ the other 5 threads. Just keep them all together.

[bondom34]

Gonna just merge this with all the others since the topic and content is the same.

[slick_watts]

I will say that OKC is still the favorite to resign KD. IMO, its a two horse race between OKC and Golden State.

But if OKC keeps playing like crap and gets blown out in the 2nd round of the playoffs, I can see KD leaving.

1. But why would Golden State break up a championship team?

Answer: Because championship teams get old and players lose motivation. Adding a new piece can re-energize a team. Especially when that piece is a top3 player in the entire league. Iggy is 32. Bogut is 32. Barnes will command a $20+ million salary. They have to make moves regardless if they get KD or not.

2. Do dynasty level teams flip their roster like this? Don't they just try to keep everyone?

No. At least no the dynasties that last. The Celtics of the 80's tried to hand on to Bird/McHale/Parish well past their prime and they faded because of that. The real dynasties get rid of aging players and get better players. Look at the roster of the champion 1993 Bulls and then the champion 1996 Bulls:

1993 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Armstrong
Cartwright
Grant
Paxon
Perdue
Williams

1996 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Harper
Kerr
Kukoc
Longley
Wennington
Edwards

Notice that in THREE YEARS the entire roster of the Bulls changed except for Jordan/Pippen. What if the Bulls simply tried to keep their 1993 roster? They needed to overpay to keep Grant and Armstrong. Paxon/Cartwright was too old. Williams was not progressing. Instead the Bulls flipped their entire supporting cast to get younger (Kukoc, Longley) and more athletic (Harper, Rodman).

Steve Kerr knows this. Yes GSW may win back to back but you need to keep improving to keep winning.

3. How much would GSW have to give up to sign Durant?

Not much actually. First they would need to let Barnes walk. This isn't so bad since Barnes wanted a max deal which will be $20+ million a year. That would be a ridiculous price to pay for the 6th best player on a team.

They would need to trade Iguadala. This would be an easy salary dump. What contender would not want an elite level wing for a year? They would then need to trade Bogut or Ezeli. Again both have significant value so it would be an easy salary dump. With those moves GSW would have enough space to sign Durant.

4. What will GSW look like with Durant?

Dynasty level. Possible best team ever level.

Starters:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut or Ezeli

Bench:

Livingston
Looney
Free Agent ring chaser - MLE
Free Agent ring chaser

5. Would Durant going to GSW ruin his legacy?

Nope. What would ruin Durant's legacy is not winning a title. The guy has accomplished everything on an individual level to be an all time great: Rookie of the year, 7x All star, 5x NBA first team, 4x scoring champion. Look at Lebron. Lebron joined a top3 player in Dwayne Wade who already won a championship and was a finals MVP. Also an ALL-Star big man. But it did not ruin his legacy. All that matter was he won titles. Same with Durant. If he is the 1B to Curry's 1A, no one will care. Magic never won a title without Karem. Shaq won 3 with Kobe. Bird won with Parish/McHale. No one wins titles alone. PERIOD.

If Durant goes to GSW and wins 4 titles he will be remembered as a top10 all time player and the 1st or 2nd best small forward of all time. Curry/Durant will be remember as one of the all time great duo's.

Bottom line is Durant does not want to be remember as the greatest player never to win a championship. That would be legacy ruining.

do you post on dailythunder? you should.

[hollasin]

I will say that OKC is still the favorite to resign KD. IMO, its a two horse race between OKC and Golden State.

But if OKC keeps playing like crap and gets blown out in the 2nd round of the playoffs, I can see KD leaving.

1. But why would Golden State break up a championship team?

Answer: Because championship teams get old and players lose motivation. Adding a new piece can re-energize a team. Especially when that piece is a top3 player in the entire league. Iggy is 32. Bogut is 32. Barnes will command a $20+ million salary. They have to make moves regardless if they get KD or not.

2. Do dynasty level teams flip their roster like this? Don't they just try to keep everyone?

No. At least no the dynasties that last. The Celtics of the 80's tried to hand on to Bird/McHale/Parish well past their prime and they faded because of that. The real dynasties get rid of aging players and get better players. Look at the roster of the champion 1993 Bulls and then the champion 1996 Bulls:

1993 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Armstrong
Cartwright
Grant
Paxon
Perdue
Williams

1996 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Harper
Kerr
Kukoc
Longley
Wennington
Edwards

Notice that in THREE YEARS the entire roster of the Bulls changed except for Jordan/Pippen. What if the Bulls simply tried to keep their 1993 roster? They needed to overpay to keep Grant and Armstrong. Paxon/Cartwright was too old. Williams was not progressing. Instead the Bulls flipped their entire supporting cast to get younger (Kukoc, Longley) and more athletic (Harper, Rodman).

Steve Kerr knows this. Yes GSW may win back to back but you need to keep improving to keep winning.

3. How much would GSW have to give up to sign Durant?

Not much actually. First they would need to let Barnes walk. This isn't so bad since Barnes wanted a max deal which will be $20+ million a year. That would be a ridiculous price to pay for the 6th best player on a team.

They would need to trade Iguadala. This would be an easy salary dump. What contender would not want an elite level wing for a year? They would then need to trade Bogut or Ezeli. Again both have significant value so it would be an easy salary dump. With those moves GSW would have enough space to sign Durant.

4. What will GSW look like with Durant?

Dynasty level. Possible best team ever level.

Starters:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut or Ezeli

Bench:

Livingston
Looney
Free Agent ring chaser - MLE
Free Agent ring chaser

5. Would Durant going to GSW ruin his legacy?

Nope. What would ruin Durant's legacy is not winning a title. The guy has accomplished everything on an individual level to be an all time great: Rookie of the year, 7x All star, 5x NBA first team, 4x scoring champion. Look at Lebron. Lebron joined a top3 player in Dwayne Wade who already won a championship and was a finals MVP. Also an ALL-Star big man. But it did not ruin his legacy. All that matter was he won titles. Same with Durant. If he is the 1B to Curry's 1A, no one will care. Magic never won a title without Karem. Shaq won 3 with Kobe. Bird won with Parish/McHale. No one wins titles alone. PERIOD.

If Durant goes to GSW and wins 4 titles he will be remembered as a top10 all time player and the 1st or 2nd best small forward of all time. Curry/Durant will be remember as one of the all time great duo's.

Bottom line is Durant does not want to be remember as the greatest player never to win a championship. That would be legacy ruining.

A lot of that team breaking up was due to Jordan retiring so players left to try and get rings elsewhere or wanted more money then the bulls wanted to pay.

[kraytinprime]

I will say that OKC is still the favorite to resign KD. IMO, its a two horse race between OKC and Golden State.

But if OKC keeps playing like crap and gets blown out in the 2nd round of the playoffs, I can see KD leaving.

1. But why would Golden State break up a championship team?

Answer: Because championship teams get old and players lose motivation. Adding a new piece can re-energize a team. Especially when that piece is a top3 player in the entire league. Iggy is 32. Bogut is 32. Barnes will command a $20+ million salary. They have to make moves regardless if they get KD or not.

2. Do dynasty level teams flip their roster like this? Don't they just try to keep everyone?

No. At least no the dynasties that last. The Celtics of the 80's tried to hand on to Bird/McHale/Parish well past their prime and they faded because of that. The real dynasties get rid of aging players and get better players. Look at the roster of the champion 1993 Bulls and then the champion 1996 Bulls:

1993 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Armstrong
Cartwright
Grant
Paxon
Perdue
Williams

1996 Bulls:
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Harper
Kerr
Kukoc
Longley
Wennington
Edwards

Notice that in THREE YEARS the entire roster of the Bulls changed except for Jordan/Pippen. What if the Bulls simply tried to keep their 1993 roster? They needed to overpay to keep Grant and Armstrong. Paxon/Cartwright was too old. Williams was not progressing. Instead the Bulls flipped their entire supporting cast to get younger (Kukoc, Longley) and more athletic (Harper, Rodman).

Steve Kerr knows this. Yes GSW may win back to back but you need to keep improving to keep winning.

3. How much would GSW have to give up to sign Durant?

Not much actually. First they would need to let Barnes walk. This isn't so bad since Barnes wanted a max deal which will be $20+ million a year. That would be a ridiculous price to pay for the 6th best player on a team.

They would need to trade Iguadala. This would be an easy salary dump. What contender would not want an elite level wing for a year? They would then need to trade Bogut or Ezeli. Again both have significant value so it would be an easy salary dump. With those moves GSW would have enough space to sign Durant.

4. What will GSW look like with Durant?

Dynasty level. Possible best team ever level.

Starters:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut or Ezeli

Bench:

Livingston
Looney
Free Agent ring chaser - MLE
Free Agent ring chaser

5. Would Durant going to GSW ruin his legacy?

Nope. What would ruin Durant's legacy is not winning a title. The guy has accomplished everything on an individual level to be an all time great: Rookie of the year, 7x All star, 5x NBA first team, 4x scoring champion. Look at Lebron. Lebron joined a top3 player in Dwayne Wade who already won a championship and was a finals MVP. Also an ALL-Star big man. But it did not ruin his legacy. All that matter was he won titles. Same with Durant. If he is the 1B to Curry's 1A, no one will care. Magic never won a title without Karem. Shaq won 3 with Kobe. Bird won with Parish/McHale. No one wins titles alone. PERIOD.

If Durant goes to GSW and wins 4 titles he will be remembered as a top10 all time player and the 1st or 2nd best small forward of all time. Curry/Durant will be remember as one of the all time great duo's.

Bottom line is Durant does not want to be remember as the greatest player never to win a championship. That would be legacy ruining.

A lot of that team breaking up was due to Jordan retiring so players left to try and get rings elsewhere or wanted more money then the bulls wanted to pay.

True. But the Bulls would not have won the second 3-peat if they simply kept the same team from the first 3-peat. In the second 3-peat they got signficantly younger, more athletic, and better defense (Kukoc, Harper, and Rodman)

[spearsy23]

do you post on dailythunder? you should.

Upper echelon low key shade.

[Northern Lights]

I hate to say it but I honestly hope KD goes to the Warriors because the guy gives his heart and soul and is in a similar situation to LeBron when he was in Cleveland. His GM just can't surround him with the right pieces and honestly he deserves to compete instead of finishing out his prime surrounded by Kanter, Waiters, Singler, Morrow and other trash can signings. I've watched OKC since their first season and to have seen them let Harden walk after making it to the Finals and then signing all these garbage stop gap players, it's humiliating.

The guy has given so much to the franchise. Let it become Westbricks team and surround him with some good pieces and see what he can do, or let him go and blow it up. We know Presti will draft a fun team to watch that will eventually peak and never win a chip because of his skills in free agency but I'd like to watch a new core develop again.

[bondom34]

I hate to say it but I honestly hope KD goes to the Warriors because the guy gives his heart and soul and is in a similar situation to LeBron when he was in Cleveland. His GM just can't surround him with the right pieces and honestly he deserves to compete instead of finishing out his prime surrounded by Kanter, Waiters, Singler, Morrow and other trash can signings. I've watched OKC since their first season and to have seen them let Harden walk after making it to the Finals and then signing all these garbage stop gap players, it's humiliating.

The guy has given so much to the franchise. Let it become Westbricks team and surround him with some good pieces and see what he can do, or let him go and blow it up. We know Presti will draft a fun team to watch that will eventually peak and never win a chip because of his skills in free agency but I'd like to watch a new core develop again.

I don't even know what to say here.

Harden wanted out.

Westbrick? Is it 2010? Or Skip Bayless.

I don't know what's to be humiliated about, unless you'd rather watch a losing team. And if you think this is like Lebron's first Cavs run, you apparently didn't watch or remember that team.

[Northern Lights]

I love Westbrook and I'm not bashing him. I'd like them to surround him with quality pieces when KD eventually leaves with the cap increase and the space left from KD's salary.

I literally scream at my TV every time Waiters is inserted into the line up or touches the ball. He is such a black hole and even when he takes wide open good shots he finds a way to botch it.

[bondom34]

I love Westbrook and I'm not bashing him. I'd like them to surround him with quality pieces when KD eventually leaves with the cap increase and the space left from KD's salary.

I literally scream at my TV every time Waiters is inserted into the line up or touches the ball. He is such a black hole and even when he takes wide open good shots he finds a way to botch it.

We all do the second part, but there's really no reason for KD to leave, and less reason to be so pessimistic. There's literally 1 or 2 teams in the league in a better situation.

[Northern Lights]

Well, didn't think we'd make it past Spurs, the roll players stepped up. I was so down watching the team blow 4th q leads and the roll players stinking it up I thought there was no chance at any kind of run. It's really nice to see them prove me wrong, you were right bondom