Welcome Okafor: Thread 2

[LongLiveHinkie]

He's going to win rookie of the year and he's going to win it unanimously so, not sure what the big deal is about.

[Duke4life831]

I know this is oversimplifying the thread but when I step back it really feels like we are dissecting and overthinking a VERY talented 19-YO kid. He's learning a ton of new information and retraining his body to do things he hasn't had to do to be successful up until this point. I'm not saying the concerns aren't valid, but they may be getting blown out of proportion because of the microscope. Seems to me a lot of what we're doing boils down to how many special talents we have. For my money, Okafor seems to have the "special" feel vs. Noel, who I still think is destined to be a very good player, but may never be "special". I am high on both and still feel like this will all work itself out, but I've been in Philly my whole life and this feels an awful lot like the Philly inferiority complex digging into a kid a little too aggressively.

They get blown out of proportion because we're the 76ers. Simple as that. We're not allowed to have nice things here in Philadelphia, regardless of how we go about it. I know I sound like a bitter female with my post, but the constant critcisim of my team, my city, and anything positive we have going for us has sucked the fan life right out of me. The rookie thread isn't even a good read anymore. There's always posters looking for ways to discredit anything OK4 does. Very similar to the way Noel and MCW was treated. I think some of the fans of other teams are actually the ones with the inferiority complex.

Ya but the Philly board isn't much better. You have multiple Philly fans who can't wait to trade Okafor away and the Philly fans seem to be the fans that pick Okafor apart the most. The general fans just go off what they hear, so what they hear is he's a back to the basket guy who is the worst defender on the league who can't rebound. While in reality he uses his face up game more than his back to the basket game. He still gets lost on defense time to time but he's improved a lot defensively and the past month or so has actually been a good defender (all defensive stats except block shots are better than Towns) and ya he isn't a great rebounder but he gets like 1 board less than KP.

[Sixteen]

I know this is oversimplifying the thread but when I step back it really feels like we are dissecting and overthinking a VERY talented 19-YO kid. He's learning a ton of new information and retraining his body to do things he hasn't had to do to be successful up until this point. I'm not saying the concerns aren't valid, but they may be getting blown out of proportion because of the microscope. Seems to me a lot of what we're doing boils down to how many special talents we have. For my money, Okafor seems to have the "special" feel vs. Noel, who I still think is destined to be a very good player, but may never be "special". I am high on both and still feel like this will all work itself out, but I've been in Philly my whole life and this feels an awful lot like the Philly inferiority complex digging into a kid a little too aggressively.

They get blown out of proportion because we're the 76ers. Simple as that. We're not allowed to have nice things here in Philadelphia, regardless of how we go about it. I know I sound like a bitter female with my post, but the constant critcisim of my team, my city, and anything positive we have going for us has sucked the fan life right out of me. The rookie thread isn't even a good read anymore. There's always posters looking for ways to discredit anything OK4 does. Very similar to the way Noel and MCW was treated. I think some of the fans of other teams are actually the ones with the inferiority complex.

Ya but the Philly board isn't much better. You have multiple Philly fans who can't wait to trade Okafor away and the Philly fans seem to be the fans that pick Okafor apart the most. The general fans just go off what they hear, so what they hear is he's a back to the basket guy who is the worst defender on the league who can't rebound. While in reality he uses his face up game more than his back to the basket game. He still gets lost on defense time to time but he's improved a lot defensively and the past month or so has actually been a good defender (all defensive stats except block shots are better than Towns) and ya he isn't a great rebounder but he gets like 1 board less than KP.

I can respect some of the Philly fans view because I know that they actually watch him play, and some actually give him the benfit of the doubt because he's a rookie. It's funny that some on the GB are pinning him to be the next Al Jefferson but Russell gets a free pass because he's a rookie and has potential, as if OK4 doesn't. I am just fed up with the politics in sports in general.

[76ciology]

If you watch the Mavs game, don't you guys feel it's one of those games where it showed that playing small trumps over playing big? It came down to Mavs' less challenged perimeter shooting versus heavily doubled team Jah. Not having good perimeter defenders and a horrible game from Ish certainly also didn't help.

[76ciology]

He's going to win rookie of the year and he's going to win it unanimously so, not sure what the big deal is about.

No, it's Towns and we should be thankful of it. Imagine if there's no KAT and Towns. 17/7 should easily get you the ROY. But then Jah would be complacent with a post heavy and non-range defense&rebounding, pretty similar to his duke days.

All these, including the off court incidents, are wake up call for him. It's just important that he improves from it rather than let it break him down.

[Unbreakable99]

I wonder how much Okafor reads stuff about how awful his defense is. I wonder if he is cognizant of his +/- and how many say the team is better with him off the court. I wonder if he thinks about any of that or he jail plays his game and doesn't care. I know Hinkie is an analytics guru so I'm sure he and the staff have to make it clear to him about stats like that. I wonder if Okafor sees how the game is changing with non rim protecting big men.

[CoreyGallagher]

So, will we get a few articles about Porzingis' 2 rebound game in a blowout loss with a game high -27? Or D'Angelo Russell finally getting to start tonight, playing 30 minutes through three quarters then sitting the entire fourth quarter which his team came back in? Game high -29 in a 7 point loss?

There probably won't even be a tweet.

[mksp]

So, will we get a few articles about Porzingis' 2 rebound game in a blowout loss that he went -27 in? Or D'Angelo Russell finally getting to start tonight, playing 30 minutes through three quarters, then sitting the entire 4th. -29 in a 7 point loss...

Heh.

I was thinking about posting the exact same sentiment on the GB......and then remembered how much worse Jah still is over the entire season compared to those two.

That said, I absolutely would not trade Okafor for Russell straight up.

[CoreyGallagher]

Heh.

I was thinking about posting the exact same sentiment on the GB......and then remembered how much worse Jah still is over the entire season compared to those two.

That said, I absolutely would not trade Okafor for Russell straight up.

Their performances for these games or the season wasn't my point, it's the ridiculous over-analyzing and scrutinizing of every game that Okafor plays. If he has a negative +/-, if he doesn't rebound enough *, if he misses too much *, if he doesn't draw enough fouls, if he doesn't play majority of the minutes and/or every quarter, if he doesn't give effort every possession *, if he makes a questionable decision *, if we get blown out, if his teammates have bad games, if his teammates have good games, etc etc.

* Exact possessions to be cited

There will always be something to nitpick and if there isn't, well, then he still sucks at defense. That seems to be everyone's go to and/or fallback.

Meanwhile, if any other rookie has a bad game... "Well, they're just a rookie, what do you expect?"

[CoreyGallagher]

Booker joined in on the fun, shot 2-10 and was -33 in only 25 minutes of a blow out loss.

[76ciology]

Brian Geltzeiler tweet last night about how selecting Mudiay over Okafor would have been the right move.

Hahahahahaha funniest thing I've read in twitter

[Wilfried]

I'm pretty sure Okafor will be a very good player in this league for a lot of years to come.
If it's going to be with the Sixers is a big question mark to me and depends on Embiid and his trade value I guess.

But he's going to be very good for a long time.

[HartfordWhalers]

Quoting from the GB:

Btw, for everyone repeating how bad Okafor is at defense and the +/- without having watched Philly much, here's something to chew on:

Sixers defense following a make with Okafor: 46.2% efg% allowed
Sixers defense following a make without Okafor: 46.4% efg% allowed

Sixers defense following a make or even a miss with Okafor: 49.0% efg%
Sixers defense following a make or even a miss without Okafor: 48.6% efg%

Sixers defense following a steal or other turnover with Okafor: 56.7% efg%
Sixers defense following a make or even a miss without Okafor: 57.4% efg%

However... The Sixers turnover rate is 20% higher when Okafor is on the floor than when he is not. (18.7 TO Ratio versus 16.7) The 2.0 TOR gap is larger than the gap between the 29th and 18th best teams in this metric, or the 1st and the 19th if you start from the opposite end.

The defensive hole is a considerable product of the offense giving up easy baskets in transition.


(There is also a small offense rebound difference of 1.6% higher O rebounds for the other team with Okafor on the floor that also hurts -- 25.1 with Okafor, 25.5 without him) And for scaling similarity, this is the difference between the 23rd and 21st best teams

[Unbreakable99]

Brian Geltzeiler tweet last night about how selecting Mudiay over Okafor would have been the right move.

Hahahahahaha funniest thing I've read in twitter

That guy has no clue.

[76ciology]

Quoting from the GB:

Btw, for everyone repeating how bad Okafor is at defense and the +/- without having watched Philly much, here's something to chew on:

Sixers defense following a make with Okafor: 46.2% efg% allowed
Sixers defense following a make without Okafor: 46.4% efg% allowed

Sixers defense following a make or even a miss with Okafor: 49.0% efg%
Sixers defense following a make or even a miss without Okafor: 48.6% efg%

Sixers defense following a steal or other turnover with Okafor: 56.7% efg%
Sixers defense following a make or even a miss without Okafor: 57.4% efg%

However... The Sixers turnover rate is 20% higher when Okafor is on the floor than when he is not. (18.7 TO Ratio versus 16.7) The 2.0 TOR gap is larger than the gap between the 29th and 18th best teams in this metric, or the 1st and the 19th if you start from the opposite end.

The defensive hole is a considerable product of the offense giving up easy baskets in transition.


(There is also a small offense rebound difference of 1.6% higher O rebounds for the other team with Okafor on the floor that also hurts -- 25.1 with Okafor, 25.5 without him) And for scaling similarity, this is the difference between the 23rd and 21st best teams

Good post.

The team plays better offense running the drive and draw. It's much tougher to set-up a defense around it and it's more unpredictable compared to running a set play for Jah when most teams would either front Jah, double Jah or make it tough for our undersized guards (TJ, Ish and Canaan) to have good passing angles for Jah. I'd put it this way, when we call a play for Jah, you kinda know how it's going to unfold as soon as they move pass halfcourt (back screen for Jah then entry pass).

IMO, the team works best with not much ball handling and passing (less ball time = less TOs;we're poor in secondary assists). Seems like the offense is much fluid with Ish-Noel PnR or our shooters jacking up contested 3s or fake, drive and dish, but horrible in getting Jah at the post, while Jah handling double teams needs much improvements.

I think Jah needs to build around the type of offense he did in Jan., where he was more in the flow of the offense with more assisted FGAs and less Isos&post plays.

[bedjawII]

If you watch the Mavs game, don't you guys feel it's one of those games where it showed that playing small trumps over playing big? It came down to Mavs' less challenged perimeter shooting versus heavily doubled team Jah. Not having good perimeter defenders and a horrible game from Ish certainly also didn't help.

Not at all...what it showed me is a more veteran team will play to their strengths and their opponents weaknesses. Mavs are a very solid veteran team, that is well coached. A team like that will crush a team like the Sixers every time. We are not that type of team yet.

[ET Da Gawd]

People on this board are redic, judging oaks stats on a very low talent team, nerlens doesn't get 10% of the criticism Jah gets even tho Jahlil is decades ahead of him offensively, people nitpick what they want. Jahlil is still obviously the best player from last years draft, imagine him w/o seeing frequent doubles...Also, Kristaps & Town don't even see nowhere near the defensive attention that jah gets when he touches the ball. Best post up big we've seen since Tim Duncan and people are bringing up adv stats as if you'll get a good barometer of how good he is while covering up the rest of this bum rosters mistakes, same for nerlens...they are both doing the best they can playing with low IQ/low talent teammates


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[ET Da Gawd]

If you watch the Mavs game, don't you guys feel it's one of those games where it showed that playing small trumps over playing big? It came down to Mavs' less challenged perimeter shooting versus heavily doubled team Jah. Not having good perimeter defenders and a horrible game from Ish certainly also didn't help.

Nope, our perimeter players are a joke and it doesn't take much to torch em bro


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[Mik317]

Yeah I'm not the biggest Jah fan but our wings create a large chunk of our problems

[Unbreakable99]

I wonder if Okakor read his article lol. If he did he must feel like the worst player ever.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/240955/Jahlil-Okafor-Myles-Turner-And-The-Futility-Of-The-Process