Atkins: Jays want to keep Jose and Edwin "long term"

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The_Hater"]Please dont pretend to know whats going on beyond closed doors just because every conversation isnt being aired in public. All we know about the jose situation is jays management asked him what he would be looking for. Thats it.

As I is, if either player wants far more money than theyre worth, a good organization will either trade them or let them go and spend that money more wisely. I'd rather have smart management then a group paying for past acconplishments.

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

Just like the Phillies retained all those veteran assets who were performing on great contracts?

It's Jose Bautista dude.

[rarefind]

The_Hater"]Please dont pretend to know whats going on beyond closed doors just because every conversation isnt being aired in public. All we know about the jose situation is jays management asked him what he would be looking for. Thats it.

As I is, if either player wants far more money than theyre worth, a good organization will either trade them or let them go and spend that money more wisely. I'd rather have smart management then a group paying for past acconplishments.

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

Bautista will be 36 when his new deal kicks in. This is precisely the type of move you tread carefully with. If he's looking for 4 years at 100-130m dollars you are entering a scenario that would be very hard to imagine looking good at the conclusion of the deal. You really have to throw away sentiments on this situation and think logically. Don't mistake Bautista's comments yesterday as anything but PR, he and his agent know what they're doing.

[Santoki]

The_Hater"]Please dont pretend to know whats going on beyond closed doors just because every conversation isnt being aired in public. All we know about the jose situation is jays management asked him what he would be looking for. Thats it.

As I is, if either player wants far more money than theyre worth, a good organization will either trade them or let them go and spend that money more wisely. I'd rather have smart management then a group paying for past acconplishments.

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

Bautista will be 36 when his new deal kicks in. This is precisely the type of move you tread carefully with. If he's looking for 4 years at 100-130m dollars you are entering a scenario that would be very hard to imagine looking good at the conclusion of the deal. You really have to throw away sentiments on this situation and think logically. Don't mistake Bautista's comments yesterday as anything but PR, he and his agent know what they're doing.

Let's dispel this myth that Jose Bautista doesn't know what he's doing. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing...

[rarefind]

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

Bautista will be 36 when his new deal kicks in. This is precisely the type of move you tread carefully with. If he's looking for 4 years at 100-130m dollars you are entering a scenario that would be very hard to imagine looking good at the conclusion of the deal. You really have to throw away sentiments on this situation and think logically. Don't mistake Bautista's comments yesterday as anything but PR, he and his agent know what they're doing.

Let's dispel this myth that Jose Bautista doesn't know what he's doing. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing...

Of course he does. Right down to his "Home is Toronto" shirt.

[Santoki]

Bautista will be 36 when his new deal kicks in. This is precisely the type of move you tread carefully with. If he's looking for 4 years at 100-130m dollars you are entering a scenario that would be very hard to imagine looking good at the conclusion of the deal. You really have to throw away sentiments on this situation and think logically. Don't mistake Bautista's comments yesterday as anything but PR, he and his agent know what they're doing.

Let's dispel this myth that Jose Bautista doesn't know what he's doing. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing...

Of course he does. Right down to his "Home is Toronto" shirt.

Lol it was a Rubio joke (just google Rubio and "let's dispel this myth), but yes it's obviously a calculated PR move that doesn't seem to have worked as well as he hoped it would. Most people I've spoken to have said they'd love to have him back at the right price but aren't writing him a blank cheque for past accomplishments.

[The_Hater]

The_Hater"]Please dont pretend to know whats going on beyond closed doors just because every conversation isnt being aired in public. All we know about the jose situation is jays management asked him what he would be looking for. Thats it.

As I is, if either player wants far more money than theyre worth, a good organization will either trade them or let them go and spend that money more wisely. I'd rather have smart management then a group paying for past acconplishments.

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

You pretty much missed every point I was making here.

Good organizations make smart financial decisions for the good of the team and organization, bad organizations overpay for veteran players just to keep a fan base happy. That's not to say the Jays shouldn't re-sign Jose, but if he demands $300 million over 10 years should they still sign him out of loyalty? Of course not. There's always a point where the price becomes a bad investment. For all we know Jose has demanded a figure that is completely unreasonable.

And no, you can't always trade a player that is grossly underperforming to his contract. In fact it's extremely tough because nobody wants those players. The list of examples of this are endless.

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The_Hater"]Please dont pretend to know whats going on beyond closed doors just because every conversation isnt being aired in public. All we know about the jose situation is jays management asked him what he would be looking for. Thats it.

As I is, if either player wants far more money than theyre worth, a good organization will either trade them or let them go and spend that money more wisely. I'd rather have smart management then a group paying for past acconplishments.

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

You pretty much missed every point I was making here.

Good organizations make smart financial decisions for the good of the team and organization, bad organizations overpay for veteran players just to keep a fan base happy. That's not to say the Jays shouldn't re-sign Jose, but if he demands $300 million over 10 years should they still sign him out of loyalty? Of course not. There's always a point where the price becomes a bad investment. For all we know Jose has demanded a figure that is completely unreasonable.

And no, you can't always trade a player that is grossly underperforming to his contract. In fact it's extremely tough because nobody wants those players. The list of examples of this are endless.

I didn't miss anything.

Obviously he's not asking $300m for 10 years, why bring that up in the argument when that's not even the situation? 20-25 mil a year is probably what he's looking for and rightfully so. Looking at his body of work + how he maintains his body, for me, I'd look to keep him here for that price. You are obviously taking a risk, especially since Jose will be in the upper 30's but imo you take it. His body + performance haven't hinted to a decline yet. And he will probably be our DH if/when Edwin leaves.

At the end of the day, Jose's not stupid, he put the pressure on Shapiro and ownership yesterday. This is the MLB, they need to start spending and stop being cheapm, especially for a player who's done good by you the last 5 years.

[The_Hater]

I'm not pretending but open your eyes.

A good organization will try and get an extension done for a player who's played at an all star level the past 5 years and one of the reasons we got to the ALCS.

You can always trade Jose down the line if it isn't working out. I'd rather have a smart group who retains assets rather than letting them walk for nothing, which looks like its going to be the case here.

You pretty much missed every point I was making here.

Good organizations make smart financial decisions for the good of the team and organization, bad organizations overpay for veteran players just to keep a fan base happy. That's not to say the Jays shouldn't re-sign Jose, but if he demands $300 million over 10 years should they still sign him out of loyalty? Of course not. There's always a point where the price becomes a bad investment. For all we know Jose has demanded a figure that is completely unreasonable.

And no, you can't always trade a player that is grossly underperforming to his contract. In fact it's extremely tough because nobody wants those players. The list of examples of this are endless.

I didn't miss anything.

Obviously he's not asking $300m for 10 years, why bring that up in the argument when that's not even the situation? 20-25 mil a year is probably what he's looking for and rightfully so. Looking at his body of work + how he maintains his body, for me, I'd look to keep him here for that price. You are obviously taking a risk, especially since Jose will be in the upper 30's but imo you take it. His body + performance haven't hinted to a decline yet. And he will probably be our DH if/when Edwin leaves.

At the end of the day, Jose's not stupid, he put the pressure on Shapiro and ownership yesterday. This is the MLB, they need to start spending and stop being cheapm, especially for a player who's done good by you the last 5 years.

My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

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You pretty much missed every point I was making here.

Good organizations make smart financial decisions for the good of the team and organization, bad organizations overpay for veteran players just to keep a fan base happy. That's not to say the Jays shouldn't re-sign Jose, but if he demands $300 million over 10 years should they still sign him out of loyalty? Of course not. There's always a point where the price becomes a bad investment. For all we know Jose has demanded a figure that is completely unreasonable.

And no, you can't always trade a player that is grossly underperforming to his contract. In fact it's extremely tough because nobody wants those players. The list of examples of this are endless.

I didn't miss anything.

Obviously he's not asking $300m for 10 years, why bring that up in the argument when that's not even the situation? 20-25 mil a year is probably what he's looking for and rightfully so. Looking at his body of work + how he maintains his body, for me, I'd look to keep him here for that price. You are obviously taking a risk, especially since Jose will be in the upper 30's but imo you take it. His body + performance haven't hinted to a decline yet. And he will probably be our DH if/when Edwin leaves.

At the end of the day, Jose's not stupid, he put the pressure on Shapiro and ownership yesterday. This is the MLB, they need to start spending and stop being cheapm, especially for a player who's done good by you the last 5 years.

My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

[Santoki]

I didn't miss anything.

Obviously he's not asking $300m for 10 years, why bring that up in the argument when that's not even the situation? 20-25 mil a year is probably what he's looking for and rightfully so. Looking at his body of work + how he maintains his body, for me, I'd look to keep him here for that price. You are obviously taking a risk, especially since Jose will be in the upper 30's but imo you take it. His body + performance haven't hinted to a decline yet. And he will probably be our DH if/when Edwin leaves.

At the end of the day, Jose's not stupid, he put the pressure on Shapiro and ownership yesterday. This is the MLB, they need to start spending and stop being cheapm, especially for a player who's done good by you the last 5 years.

My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

You just keep coming back to this opinion that Shapiro low-balled him. You can have that opinion, but you should know it's completely baseless.

Also, using your latest numbers that you've now increased from 10-15 to 20-25 AAV, offering a 36 year old a 3/75 deal is far from laughable.

[The_Hater]

I didn't miss anything.

Obviously he's not asking $300m for 10 years, why bring that up in the argument when that's not even the situation? 20-25 mil a year is probably what he's looking for and rightfully so. Looking at his body of work + how he maintains his body, for me, I'd look to keep him here for that price. You are obviously taking a risk, especially since Jose will be in the upper 30's but imo you take it. His body + performance haven't hinted to a decline yet. And he will probably be our DH if/when Edwin leaves.

At the end of the day, Jose's not stupid, he put the pressure on Shapiro and ownership yesterday. This is the MLB, they need to start spending and stop being cheapm, especially for a player who's done good by you the last 5 years.

My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

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My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.

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My point isn't that he's asking for $300/10, the point is that we have no idea how big a contract Jose asking for but it could be completely unreasonable. At some figure along the scale, somewhere between $2 million over 2 years and $300 million over 10 years, he's going to be asking for too much and re-signing him at that term/salary becomes a bad decision. None of us can sit there and point fingers at management for not extending his contract when we don't know the particulars of all of this.

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

You just keep coming back to this opinion that Shapiro low-balled him. You can have that opinion, but you should know it's completely baseless.

Also, using your latest numbers that you've now increased from 10-15 to 20-25 AAV, offering a 36 year old a 3/75 deal is far from laughable.

2-3 years at the same amount of money he is currently making Should have been more specific.

3/75 isn't laughable. 3/45 is. For the player he currently is and what he's done in the past.

[The_Hater]

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.

OK then. A lot of people would agree with your that $60/3 is fair. So with the news that he wants $150/5 out now, do you still think Rogers is low balling him and not attempting to extend his contract? Do you still think this situation is a problem being caused by Rogers?

[0 - 100]

I'm sure the term and money will come out eventually, usually always does. 20-25 is what I'm guessing it is, like most are speculating . Again, to my previous statement, Shapiro just seems fishy with the we want to bring Bautista back. It's all public optics. Shows the fans that they tried when all they did was offer him 2-3 years at roughly the same amount of money. Laughable.

Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.

Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590/status/702197465835917314[/tweet]

As I've said it's probably around 20-25 mil.

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Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.

OK then. A lot of people would agree with your that $60/3 is fair. So with the news that he wants $150/5 out now, do you still think Rogers is low balling him and not attempting to extend his contract? Do you still think this situation is a problem being caused by Rogers?

not accurate.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590/status/702197465835917314[/tweet]

And I never said Rogers is low balling him. They havent even made an offer. Again, I'm just not buying Shapiro's comments and what I think will happen is written in my previous post.

[0 - 100]

Earlier you had him making $45/3 years as fair compensation. How you've suddenly increased that to $75/3. Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5? This only proved the exact point I was trying to make.

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.[/quote]

Are you still going to dig your heels in now that it's been leaked that he's requested $150/5?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590/status/702197465835917314[/tweet]

As I've said it's probably around 20-25 mil.

[The_Hater]

Where did I say that 15/yr was fair? 15/yr is what he's getting paid now - how is that fair?

I've always said 20-25 is probably the market value for him today based on age and performance. I would lock him up for that number, again just based on the player he is and what he's done for us in the past.

OK then. A lot of people would agree with your that $60/3 is fair. So with the news that he wants $150/5 out now, do you still think Rogers is low balling him and not attempting to extend his contract? Do you still think this situation is a problem being caused by Rogers?

not accurate.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590/status/702197465835917314[/tweet]

And I never said Rogers is low balling him. They havent even made an offer. Again, I'm just not buying Shapiro's comments and what I think will happen is written in my previous post.

In between all the fact and fiction of the numbers thrown out by everyone, we do know of two things that have actually happened with Jose and Shapiro. Shapiro did announce to the press that they would like to sign Jose to an extension and Rogers did ask Jose what type of figure he'd be looking for. That's been confirmed by Jose himself.

Based on those 2 facts, you still came to the opinion that Shapiro doesn't actually want to extend Jose's contract. Hard for Shapiro to win with some people if they choose to completely ignore facts and come to the opposite conclusion.

Again, like I stated previously, Rogers only wants to extend Jose if it's at a $$$ figure and term that makes sense for them. It's reasonable to assume at this point that they're not even close to that figure right now. It's also reasonable to assume that just like Randall stated in one of his posts, Jose doesn't necessarily want an extension, he wants to ride this out until free-agency and let the highest bidder win. Something he didn't do with his last contract. But it's just so easy to blame Shapiro for anything and everything these days.

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OK then. A lot of people would agree with your that $60/3 is fair. So with the news that he wants $150/5 out now, do you still think Rogers is low balling him and not attempting to extend his contract? Do you still think this situation is a problem being caused by Rogers?

not accurate.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Wilnerness590/status/702197465835917314[/tweet]

And I never said Rogers is low balling him. They havent even made an offer. Again, I'm just not buying Shapiro's comments and what I think will happen is written in my previous post.

In between all the fact and fiction of the numbers thrown out by everyone, we do know of two things that have actually happened with Jose and Shapiro. Shapiro did announce to the press that they would like to sign Jose to an extension and Rogers did ask Jose what type of figure he'd be looking for. That's been confirmed by Jose himself.

Based on those 2 facts, you still came to the opinion that Shapiro doesn't actually want to extend Jose's contract. Hard for Shapiro to win with some people if they choose to completely ignore facts and come to the opposite conclusion.

Again, like I stated previously, Rogers only wants to extend Jose if it's at a $$$ figure and term that makes sense for them. It's reasonable to assume at this point that they're not even close to that figure right now. It's also reasonable to assume that just like Randall stated in one of his posts, Jose doesn't necessarily want an extension, he wants to ride this out until free-agency and let the highest bidder win. Something he didn't do with his last contract. But it's just so easy to blame Shapiro for anything and everything these days.

I don't seem to get what you dont understand.

But for the last time, I will explain to you.

In my opinion, I'm not buying what Shapiro/Rogers are saying to the media with the Jose situation. It's not based on 2 facts, it's based ON THEIR ENTIRE OWNERSHIP OF THE TEAM. Heck, profits have grown immensely since last season both with ticket sales and merchandise and the budget hasn't gone up. That should have been a sign to you right away. They have been cheap in the past, and done things unprofessionally as well, so I have every right to voice that opinion.

I believe Shapiro/Rogers only want to keep Jose if it's beneficial to them by a wide margin. I truly believe that. There's a reason Jose gave them a shot in the media yesterday, he's not stupid.

This is the MLB, you can't sign superstars to team friendly deals. He already shot down the 5/150. Again, as I've said it's probably in the neighbourhood of 20-25 a year for 4,5 years, which I've said I'm fine with based on his performance past and present.