2015 Draft Hindsight

[fatlever]

Now that we've had a few months to see the players from this draft, I'm curious to see where everyone stands in regards to our pick - Frank Kaminsky. This is not meant as a bash Frank thread, but more of a place for people to get their thoughts about the draft on record for future conversations.

If Frank proves to be a bit of a disappointment over the next few years I expect to see a lot of people saying "We should have taken ____". Problem is, people seem to change the person they wanted based on who is hot at the moment. I want people to get something on record now so they can't change their tune in 2 years.

If Frank proves to be a great pick over the next few years, It will be fun to see who was on Frank's side early and remained consistently in support of Frank.

The way I see it, here were the options that were in play for the Hornets for the #9 pick in the 2015 draft.

Draft Frank Kaminsky
Draft Justise Winslow
Draft Devin Booker
Draft Myles Turner
Draft Trey Lyles
Draft Cameron Payne
Draft Kelly Oubre
*Trade pick to Boston for package of picks (see footnotes)

*For the package of picks, lets assume the package was not nearly as good as Ainge led the media to believe. Lets assume the package was something like:
- #16 pick in 2015
- #28 pick in 2015
- Owed pick from Philadelphia: a 2015 first round pick (lottery protected, else second round picks in 2015 and 2016)
- Owed pick from Cleveland: a 2016 first round pick (protected 1-10 in 2016-2018, unprotected in 2019)
(essentially 1 mid first round pick, 2 late first round picks, 1 2nd round pick)

**Lets also assume that if trade is made, Hornets do not select Portis at #16, but instead one of Dekker, Hunter, Rozier, Vaughn or Grant (or anyone other than Portis), because that is totally something the Hornets would have done and we all know it. Cho doesn't magically get good at drafting all of a sudden in this scenario.

Post your votes in the thread when you vote so we can see what everyone thinks we should have done.

[fatlever]

I'll start by ranking the order I think we should have done things (now with a few months of seeing the options)

1. Draft Myles Turner
2. Draft Devin Booker
3. Draft Frank Kaminsky
4. Draft Justise Winslow
5. Trade for picks
6. Draft Trey Lyles
7. Draft Cameron Payne
8. Draft Kelly Oubre

I still believe that Winslow and MKG are too similar and would not be able to function together on offense. This year it would have been nice to have Winslow seeing as how MKG has missed all year, but looking at the big picture, I don't see those two working well.

The picks sound nice in theory, but I am not sure having that many young guys on the roster really would make a big difference unless Cho got really lucky. I don't believe we would have taken Portis at #16 because Cho was desperate for shooting and spacing and while Portis can make a 3, that's not wasn't really his game coming into the draft. This draft appears solid at the top, but nothing so far leads me to believe its deep at the back, so that #28 pick would have just been another Harrison level player stuck on the bench. I do not believe for one second Boston offered either of the Nets 2016 or 2018 unprotected picks.

As for Turner, he seems to have all the skills we like about Frank - shooting, mobility + size, but he's taller, younger, stronger, and better rim protection. If we wanted a future stretch 5, seems like Turner is a better option than Frank. Frank, clearly has the edge in passing and ball handling, but is that enough?

Booker vs Frank is really close for me, but I'd go with youth and the better 3pt shot in this case over Frank's size and experience.

[Eoghan]

Without putting too much thought into this, I'm going with the guy I probably would've drafted without the hindsight: Justise Winslow.

The main reason is the team seems chronically plagued by injuries and always in need of a bulldog perimeter defender and it seems MKG is made out of tissue paper. Hindsight has really hammered this point home but there was precedent prior to the draft to think this. I don't think Frank has contributed much to Charlotte's offense and Charlotte has improved that with other personnel anyway. But without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, the team looks most impactful, the most competitive and able to play with anyone when MKG is healthy. If WInslow is half as good defensively I think Charlotte would've cruised into the playoffs a lot more comfortably the way this season has played out. It's not far-fetched to think we could have had two MKG's on the team and WInslow was not as limited offensively as MKG was coming into the NBA plus his work ethic is just as stout. Plus, I trust Pat Riley's eye for talent about as much as anybody's.

Turner and Booker are better than I thought they'd be but I'm still holding judgment in case they pull a MCW and fade off pretty quick once the league learns how to defend them. I haven't seen enough of Lyles, Payne or Oubre to really say anything.

[yosemiteben]

Turner has made one three pointer this season, and only attempted 5. I know Myles is a lot younger than Frank, but at this point I think it's a bit too early to compare Myles as a stretch big to Frank. He's a different type of player.

Given that it's obviously way too early to judge who will be better, I'm pretty much on the fence and don't feel strongly about our options other than to echo fatlever's sentiments about MKG and Winslow.

[BigSlam]

Wanted Turner before the draft.

Wanted him when he was still on the board when we picked.

Still rather have him now.


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[BlackOutBuzz]

Seems a little early to me but I'll play along. At the time Stanley Johnson was announced I, like many others here, was all in on Winslow. Fit be damned. I had Winslow as a top 5 talent and this team needed talent. "Draft for talent, trade for need" as Cho says but rarely follows through on. Now, I hated the pick, but mainly because of his comments toward us and that this was the third year in a row we picked a 4. That said, he really did/does fit the mold of the stretch 4 we've coveted for so long.

In hindsight, thus far, choosing Frank over Winslow doesn't seem so bad. The picks, meh. I never bought into the idea that we would be getting anything substantial. We were already a young team, so adding a handful of mid-first prospects doesn't really help us. Best case would be to package them to move up to...I don't know, the ninth pick or so. Funny how we were so foolish to pass up on the offer, but no one chastises Boston for making it.

The two names that come up though are Booker and Turner. Booker I liked, but I didn't consider him at the time and I'm still on the fence of whether I'd take him over Frank. Frank and Devin are quite possibly the two best shooters from this draft, one is young and potential-laden while the other is a skilled 7-footer, tough call. Turner I liked a lot, had him ranked top ten (ahead of Frank) and he looks like the big miss IMO. Not that big on Portis either.

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[fatlever]

Seems a little early to me but I'll play along.

Doing this early is the point. Even after we've had a 2/3rds of a season to evaluate, its still hard to make a definite call on what was the available route. This will be a very easy conversation in 3 years as the players start to separate themselves. Time for all the armchair GMs to pick an option and stick to it, for better or worse.

We've been hearing these same debates for years with the MKG draft and Kemba/Biz draft. Its easy now for people to say we should have taken Drummond over MKG and Kawhi over Biz, but were they saying that 3-4 months into the first season?

I think the 2015 draft will be a hotly debated topic on these boards for many years to come if Frank doesn't pan out.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Seems a little early to me but I'll play along.

Doing this early is the point.

Fair enough, I just don't like evaluations until at least a couple years. Good idea to keep people accountable.

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[MasterIchiro]

Booker, still really young, plays with poise beyond his years, gonna blossom into a rare assassin.

[Liver_Pooty]

Wanted Winslow.

Still want Winslow, although I'm very high on Booker.

[Eoghan]

One of Turner's legs probably would have fallen off from his goofy gait if Charlotte had drafted him, knowing the Hornets' luck.

Or he'd at least be traded for a vet on an expiring contract a la Vonleh or something.

[JDR720]

turner easily for me.

if we miss on frank, this draft would be my new most hated draft (after the davis lottery draft)

[No-Man]

Winslow was the top pick in my board available so I'd have gone with him, If they had doubts about him fitting and all that, Turner was next in line, easily.

[Braggins]

They were all good choices, but Id go with Winslow. He was the best talent left. I don't think we had any reason to be desperate for another stretch 4. Hawes can kind of be a passing/stretch big and Marv can also stretch the floor. We also added Batum and Lamb. I like Winslows fit on this roster just as much, if not more, than Frank's. Frank is our backup PF as a 22 year old. Winslow would have been our starting SF with MKG injured, and our backup otherwise, at age 19 and would probably be having a bigger impact in either capacity.

Booker and Frank are basically a wash, but I might slight favor Booker on talent.

Turner is probably ahead of Frank and Booker for me, but I am perfectly fine passing on him given the question marks surrounding his legs.

[316Hornets]

I make the trade for picks then and now. The NBA landscape is changing with the huge contracts going to mid tier players and thus, increasing the value of draft picks. If Charlotte didn't feel the need the use the future picks, they could have been packaged together to bring in a star player like Boston almost did with Jahil Okafor. It seemed like a knee jerk reaction to select Frank Kaminsky based on his rare gifts, but there is a reason he was not an early entrant candidate to the draft; his ceiling is lower than other possible picks.

[Elden Payton]

I told people Winslow would fall and got laughed at.

It was obvious he was going to slide and it was obvious that he was the right pick.

Drafting 867984769867948674 power forwards does not help us at all and there is no overlap with MKG as Winslow is a SG/SF and Gilchrist is a SF/PF.

This franchise is pretty pathetic to be honest and as much as I love this team...they are an embarrassment.

Seeing people on this board try to justify something as stupid as this is painful, Frank is going to be a bust or at the very least the 15-20th best player in this draft.

You don't take 7 foot stiff, white guy senior PF's over elite perimeter defending freak athletes who are still teenagers.

Cho deserves to be fired and MJ should sell the team, that is how stupid it is.

[yosemiteben]

Drafting 867984769867948674 power forwards does not help us at all...

You mean the guy who is coming into his own as our starting center, the guy we traded for Batum along with an expiring SG that can't shoot threes, and Frank? That was too many PFs?

[Elden Payton]

Drafting 867984769867948674 power forwards does not help us at all...

You mean the guy who is coming into his own as our starting center, the guy we traded for Batum along with an expiring SG that can't shoot threes, and Frank? That was too many PFs?

Cody is playing well at the 5 but he is a 4.

Drafting players who play the exact same position 3 drafts in a row is an embarrassment.

Peoples attempts at justifications for this type of mismanagement are no more than stans or homers imo.

[yosemiteben]

Drafting 867984769867948674 power forwards does not help us at all...

You mean the guy who is coming into his own as our starting center, the guy we traded for Batum along with an expiring SG that can't shoot threes, and Frank? That was too many PFs?

Cody is playing well at the 5 but he is a 4.

Drafting players who play the exact same position 3 drafts in a row is an embarrassment.

Peoples attempts at justifications for this type of mismanagement are no more than stans or homers imo.

So the fact that there is one guy we've drafted that we have on our roster now that plays PF is irrelevant to your analysis that we've drafted too many PFs?

What is the point of bringing up drafting both Vonleh and Frank since we traded Vonleh for Batum? It doesn't fit your criticism of us drafting too many PFs when we trade them for very useful players at other positions.

[Elden Payton]

You mean the guy who is coming into his own as our starting center, the guy we traded for Batum along with an expiring SG that can't shoot threes, and Frank? That was too many PFs?

Cody is playing well at the 5 but he is a 4.

Drafting players who play the exact same position 3 drafts in a row is an embarrassment.

Peoples attempts at justifications for this type of mismanagement are no more than stans or homers imo.

So the fact that there is one guy we've drafted that we have on our roster now that plays PF is irrelevant to your analysis that we've drafted too many PFs?

What is the point of bringing up drafting both Vonleh and Frank since we traded Vonleh for Batum? It doesn't fit your criticism of us drafting too many PFs when we trade them for very useful players at other positions.

Well it has set our franchise back years so that makes it relevant.

Our best player this season (outside of Kemba) is also a 4 who was a FA acquisition.

Frank Kaminsky sucks, there is no denying it really, he's basically a 23 year old project at this point and Winsow, Turner and Booker are all better and more NBA ready.

Probably the most brain dead move we've ever made and that is saying something.

There is no justification for the moves this franchise has made and if people want to delude themselves into believing otherwise then that is their prerogative.

I honestly can't believe people think drafting Frank is a good thing.