Trade Discussion

[AtheJ415]

On NBA 2k, if you do a draft in GM mode, almost all of the Suns players are taken in the first 4 rounds. TJ goes 2nd round. Somewhat interesting.

[SunsBlood23]

On NBA 2k, if you do a draft in GM mode, almost all of the Suns players are taken in the first 4 rounds. TJ goes 2nd round. Somewhat interesting.

Yeah and Bledsoe goes first round I believe and Porzingis often goes either 30th in the first round or first in the second round. NBA 2K isn't realistic with some of it's logic.

[Frank Lee]

Spoiler:

No year is a bad year to make the playoffs.

To win the title you start by getting to the playoffs. You get to the playoffs, even at an 8th seed, you get valuable experience to your group/core. Watch the upcoming documentary on the Sunderella squad of '76... anything can happen. You don't always have to be the best team in your conference, you just have to be playing your best basketball. The #1 can always get knocked off as well. Also, no stats here, but it seems much easier to attract quality Free Agents to a winning team, rather than a muddling unit. Fat chance we score any significant piece this year via free agency. McDreamer should be slapped silly if he goes all in for Durant. Sister kissing has been his benchmark for success. A seat at the table doesn't mean you eat.

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs. Sure, the common argument is that team over achieved and wasn't a contender blah blah blah... yet some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way. That was a team that gelled, that coveted chemistry. They deserved a second run. The city did too. Instead, McDoItMyWay miscalculated with his off season maneuvers, ransacking the roster, and put this team into a personnel shuffling tailspin. We are still recovering. At least it is such a mess that we now have the best chance at a #1 since the legendary Lew AlCoinflip.

I have always been supportive of getting to the playoffs. To slam on Sarver for wanting that makes no sense to me. That should be/is the first step of winning a title. Hard to see teams going from worst to first. Often, it is the team that was turned away once, twice that ends up with the crown. (see Golden State)

We have no where to go but up now. I guess that is the benefit for being at the bottom. Problem is, the collateral damage getting there has effected the fan base and, may be more damaging, the league wide player perceptions of this Front Office.

No. It really couldn't. There is no scenario that exists in which the Dragic and Green Suns were going to win a title. Not unless you could convince Lebron that he was born in and grew up in Phoenix.

Yup, I am pretty much convinced that those two would have run this team to the ground. No doubts those two would have ever never won 48 games again. Yup, pretty much convinced that a backcourt of Dragic and Bled would regress rather than get better, and chase off any interested FAs...Yup, that chemistry they had developed would quickly dissolve. Damn Channing Frye too... what good was he (like he'll ever play for a contender)

BTW, I'm not claiming that roster would still be here/the same... or is that blatantly obvious for most here?

Hey but look on the bright side... if McDuecedInHisOwnDrawers hadn't dissolved that squad, we wouldn't be in the running for the number one pick, nor tying the worst losing streak of this franchise, nor legitimately challenging the most inept yr ever. It wouldn't be possible for any GA fan to slide down into the $300 seats....We wouldn't look like a joke to the rest of the league/players.....
So there's that...... and there wont be any title... "but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness." So we got that goin' for us, which is nice. Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga

[AtheJ415]

Spoiler:

No year is a bad year to make the playoffs.

To win the title you start by getting to the playoffs. You get to the playoffs, even at an 8th seed, you get valuable experience to your group/core. Watch the upcoming documentary on the Sunderella squad of '76... anything can happen. You don't always have to be the best team in your conference, you just have to be playing your best basketball. The #1 can always get knocked off as well. Also, no stats here, but it seems much easier to attract quality Free Agents to a winning team, rather than a muddling unit. Fat chance we score any significant piece this year via free agency. McDreamer should be slapped silly if he goes all in for Durant. Sister kissing has been his benchmark for success. A seat at the table doesn't mean you eat.

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs. Sure, the common argument is that team over achieved and wasn't a contender blah blah blah... yet some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way. That was a team that gelled, that coveted chemistry. They deserved a second run. The city did too. Instead, McDoItMyWay miscalculated with his off season maneuvers, ransacking the roster, and put this team into a personnel shuffling tailspin. We are still recovering. At least it is such a mess that we now have the best chance at a #1 since the legendary Lew AlCoinflip.

I have always been supportive of getting to the playoffs. To slam on Sarver for wanting that makes no sense to me. That should be/is the first step of winning a title. Hard to see teams going from worst to first. Often, it is the team that was turned away once, twice that ends up with the crown. (see Golden State)

We have no where to go but up now. I guess that is the benefit for being at the bottom. Problem is, the collateral damage getting there has effected the fan base and, may be more damaging, the league wide player perceptions of this Front Office.

No. It really couldn't. There is no scenario that exists in which the Dragic and Green Suns were going to win a title. Not unless you could convince Lebron that he was born in and grew up in Phoenix.

Yup, I am pretty much convinced that those two would have run this team to the ground. No doubts those two would have ever never won 48 games again. Yup, pretty much convinced that a backcourt of Dragic and Bled would regress rather than get better, and chase off any interested FAs...Yup, that chemistry they had developed would quickly dissolve. Damn Channing Frye too... what good was he (like he'll ever play for a contender)

BTW, I'm not claiming that roster would still be here/the same... or is that blatantly obvious for most here?

Hey but look on the bright side... if McDuecedInHisOwnDrawers hadn't dissolved that squad, we wouldn't be in the running for the number one pick, nor tying the worst losing streak of this franchise, nor legitimately challenging the most inept yr ever. It wouldn't be possible for any GA fan to slide down into the $300 seats....We wouldn't look like a joke to the rest of the league/players.....
So there's that...... and there wont be any title... "but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consiousness." So we got that goin' for us, which is nice. Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga

How often do guys who win 48 games win a title? You're suggesting a team that nearly made the playoffs should've been kept together at all costs because once they get that precious 8 seed, they're oh so close to winning it all. It's just nonsense.

[jredsaz]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240982/Ryan-McDonough-Admits-Mistake-Of-Trading-Away-Isaiah-Thomas

Ryan McDonough regrets his decision for the Phoenix Suns to trade Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics during the 2015 trade deadline for a first round pick.

“I think in retrospect trading Isaiah Thomas when we did was a mistake,” McDonough said. “I think sometimes in the recruitment process things sound better in July (luring Thomas in free agency) than they do in November.

“He wanted more, he wanted a bigger role and I understand why: He’s a talented player,” McDonough added. “In retrospect, we should have carried him into the summer. If there’s one (decision) that stands out, if I could get a mulligan, that’d be it.”

Wonder what he'll say after Knight is off the team...

I look at it like this. While yes, it was a bad trade in hindsight, had we not made it, we'd still be on the treadmill. The biggest regret would be not getting more back.
If we kept him, we'd have the Lakers pick, but our own would be closer to 10-12 than 3-4.

Could also make an argument that had the Suns kept Thomas they may have made the playoffs. A settled back court situation with Thomas and Bledsoe both starting would have solved the playing time issue. New Orleans got the 8th seed and had the same number of wins as the Suns had one year ago today. We went 1-10 down the stretch with losses to both the Pels and OKC.

Would we have lost out on Booker because of it?

Hypotheticals are fun.

[asudevil]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240982/Ryan-McDonough-Admits-Mistake-Of-Trading-Away-Isaiah-Thomas

Ryan McDonough regrets his decision for the Phoenix Suns to trade Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics during the 2015 trade deadline for a first round pick.

“I think in retrospect trading Isaiah Thomas when we did was a mistake,” McDonough said. “I think sometimes in the recruitment process things sound better in July (luring Thomas in free agency) than they do in November.

“He wanted more, he wanted a bigger role and I understand why: He’s a talented player,” McDonough added. “In retrospect, we should have carried him into the summer. If there’s one (decision) that stands out, if I could get a mulligan, that’d be it.”

Wonder what he'll say after Knight is off the team...

I look at it like this. While yes, it was a bad trade in hindsight, had we not made it, we'd still be on the treadmill. The biggest regret would be not getting more back.
If we kept him, we'd have the Lakers pick, but our own would be closer to 10-12 than 3-4.

Could also make an argument that had the Suns kept Thomas they may have made the playoffs. A settled back court situation with Thomas and Bledsoe both starting would have solved the playing time issue. New Orleans got the 8th seed and had the same number of wins as the Suns had one year ago today. We went 1-10 down the stretch with losses to both the Pels and OKC.

Would we have lost out on Booker because of it?

Hypotheticals are fun.

One of the biggest problems that the suns faced when Bledsoe and Knight were on the floor together is that they CONSISTENTLY got smoked on the defensive side. Sure they could put up 50, but they were allowing almost as many points to guys who had no business doing so.

If you had a back court of Thomas/Bledsoe, you would have run into the same problem....or worse.

[jredsaz]

I look at it like this. While yes, it was a bad trade in hindsight, had we not made it, we'd still be on the treadmill. The biggest regret would be not getting more back.
If we kept him, we'd have the Lakers pick, but our own would be closer to 10-12 than 3-4.

Could also make an argument that had the Suns kept Thomas they may have made the playoffs. A settled back court situation with Thomas and Bledsoe both starting would have solved the playing time issue. New Orleans got the 8th seed and had the same number of wins as the Suns had one year ago today. We went 1-10 down the stretch with losses to both the Pels and OKC.

Would we have lost out on Booker because of it?

Hypotheticals are fun.

One of the biggest problems that the suns faced when Bledsoe and Knight were on the floor together is that they CONSISTENTLY got smoked on the defensive side. Sure they could put up 50, but they were allowing almost as many points to guys who had no business doing so.

If you had a back court of Thomas/Bledsoe, you would have run into the same problem....or worse.

Sure it is a problem and it's why they would never be a contender in the west with that backcourt. But Thomas is an all star and Bledsoe had an all star caliber year last year. It's not inconceivable that they could have made up six games over their last 30 and snuck into the playoffs.

[jredsaz]

I just saw the squad get a backcourt violation bringing the ball up the court after a made basket with no pressure. Wow

[AtheJ415]

Could also make an argument that had the Suns kept Thomas they may have made the playoffs. A settled back court situation with Thomas and Bledsoe both starting would have solved the playing time issue. New Orleans got the 8th seed and had the same number of wins as the Suns had one year ago today. We went 1-10 down the stretch with losses to both the Pels and OKC.

Would we have lost out on Booker because of it?

Hypotheticals are fun.

One of the biggest problems that the suns faced when Bledsoe and Knight were on the floor together is that they CONSISTENTLY got smoked on the defensive side. Sure they could put up 50, but they were allowing almost as many points to guys who had no business doing so.

If you had a back court of Thomas/Bledsoe, you would have run into the same problem....or worse.

Sure it is a problem and it's why they would never be a contender in the west with that backcourt. But Thomas is an all star and Bledsoe had an all star caliber year last year. It's not inconceivable that they could have made up six games over their last 30 and snuck into the playoffs.

I question why you think they'd both be all-star caliber with 1 ball in a shared backcourt here. Yes, he made the all star team, but so would Bledsoe in the east. Knight nearly did last year and probably should've actually.

I think Bledsoe at the 2 is a bad thing. But Bledsoe is a much, much better defender than he showed this year. With Knight, as opposed to IT, he at least has the possibility of improving on defense. IT is a good positional defender, but he has 0 chance of ever contesting shots due to his size. Knight at least would be able to contest some if he improves.

[jredsaz]

One of the biggest problems that the suns faced when Bledsoe and Knight were on the floor together is that they CONSISTENTLY got smoked on the defensive side. Sure they could put up 50, but they were allowing almost as many points to guys who had no business doing so.

If you had a back court of Thomas/Bledsoe, you would have run into the same problem....or worse.

Sure it is a problem and it's why they would never be a contender in the west with that backcourt. But Thomas is an all star and Bledsoe had an all star caliber year last year. It's not inconceivable that they could have made up six games over their last 30 and snuck into the playoffs.

I question why you think they'd both be all-star caliber with 1 ball in a shared backcourt here. Yes, he made the all star team, but so would Bledsoe in the east. Knight nearly did last year and probably should've actually.

I think Bledsoe at the 2 is a bad thing. But Bledsoe is a much, much better defender than he showed this year. With Knight, as opposed to IT, he at least has the possibility of improving on defense. IT is a good positional defender, but he has 0 chance of ever contesting shots due to his size. Knight at least would be able to contest some if he improves.

Yeah. I'm not arguing the merits of an IT/Bledsoe backcourt. Im saying that hypothetically they may have made the playoffs last year had we kept Thomas. That's all.

[blacksun]

And Hayward does not have the scoring efficiency and is about ten times as expensive for the next 3yrs.

Hayward actually scores 6 more points per 100 possessions than Warren. Their numbers are so close, except for assists where Hayward dominates. Warren has less turnovers but thats because he doesnt handle the ball as much as Hayward. Cant deny the price, youre basically paying more for a more complete player. Credit to Warren tho for being close.

I dont think trading Knight and Warren would put us back on the treadmill. I get your sentiment, I want this team to get young too, to build from the ground up and get a title with homegrown guys. But Hayward is not exactly old, he is 25, 3 years older than Warren. He can still be a part of a championship core here in Phoenix.

However now that I think about it, giving up Warren would probably be giving up too much value to Utah. Id still give up Knight, Goodwin and picks for Hayward though. And if we were to draft Ben Simmons, TJ would be a great running mate beside him in the forward slot.

Efficiency - you might want to look at eFG%, PER etc

Scoring more total points per team posession has nothing to do with efficiency

eFG%? Oh you mean the stat that says DeAndre Jordan and Hassan Whiteside are the 1st and 3rd most efficient scorers in the league?

Here’s’ the thing. To me, advanced stats can be grouped into two, lets call them synthetic and real advanced stats. Synthetic advanced stats are stats that attempt to crunch raw box score numbers into a single number. Examples are PER, eFG%, TS%. Real advanced stats are taken from what actually happened in game. Examples are +/-, Points per 36 min, Points per 100 possessions. I dont like synthetic stats because they are vulnerable to bias because they have weighted the raw box score stats in the formula.

For example lets take your eFG%. Its goes like this: eFG% = (FGM + 0.5x3PM)/FGA. Its done because 3 pointers are worth 1.5x the normal 2 point field goal. But who says it should be measured like that? Midrange shots and long twos aren’t compensated. Thats why this stat loves post players and three point shooters while penalizing guys who shoot a lot of jumpers.

I like real advanced stats more because they are modified less, only for pace and minute adjustments. It says Hayward scores 6 more points per 100 possessions, and his team scores 4 more points per 100 possessions that Warren’s team. I dont see how it gets more real than that. This is a more accurate representation of scoring efficiency rather than some arbitrary stat.

And oh yeah since you like those stats so much, for TS%, Warren = 54.9%; Hayward = 56.5%. PER? Warren = 16.0; Hayward = 19.1.

[AtheJ415]

The real argument here should be whether Warren in a few years can be better than Hayward now, particularly when Warren is a better age fit for the rest of our future team.

[saintEscaton]

Hayward actually scores 6 more points per 100 possessions than Warren. Their numbers are so close, except for assists where Hayward dominates. Warren has less turnovers but thats because he doesnt handle the ball as much as Hayward. Cant deny the price, youre basically paying more for a more complete player. Credit to Warren tho for being close.

I dont think trading Knight and Warren would put us back on the treadmill. I get your sentiment, I want this team to get young too, to build from the ground up and get a title with homegrown guys. But Hayward is not exactly old, he is 25, 3 years older than Warren. He can still be a part of a championship core here in Phoenix.

However now that I think about it, giving up Warren would probably be giving up too much value to Utah. Id still give up Knight, Goodwin and picks for Hayward though. And if we were to draft Ben Simmons, TJ would be a great running mate beside him in the forward slot.

Efficiency - you might want to look at eFG%, PER etc

Scoring more total points per team posession has nothing to do with efficiency

eFG%? Oh you mean the stat that says DeAndre Jordan and Hassan Whiteside are the 1st and 3rd most efficient scorers in the league?

Here’s’ the thing. To me, advanced stats can be grouped into two, lets call them synthetic and real advanced stats. Synthetic advanced stats are stats that attempt to crunch raw box score numbers into a single number. Examples are PER, eFG%, TS%. Real advanced stats are taken from what actually happened in game. Examples are +/-, Points per 36 min, Points per 100 possessions. I dont like synthetic stats because they are vulnerable to bias because they have weighted the raw box score stats in the formula.

For example lets take your eFG%. Its goes like this: eFG% = (FGM + 0.5x3PM)/FGA. Its done because 3 pointers are worth 1.5x the normal 2 point field goal. But who says it should be measured like that? Midrange shots and long twos aren’t compensated. Thats why this stat loves post players and three point shooters while penalizing guys who shoot a lot of jumpers.

I like real advanced stats more because they are modified less, only for pace and minute adjustments. It says Hayward scores 6 more points per 100 possessions, and his team scores 4 more points per 100 possessions that Warren’s team. I dont see how it gets more real than that. This is a more accurate representation of scoring efficiency rather than some arbitrary stat.

And oh yeah since you like those stats so much, for TS%, Warren = 54.9%; Hayward = 56.5%. PER? Warren = 16.0; Hayward = 19.1.

Thanks for taking the effort to do what I'm too lazy to do. He's not worth rebutting IMO

[Mulhollanddrive]

http://arizonasports.com/story/564433/suns-gm-ryan-mcdonough-would-take-mulligan-on-isaiah-thomas-trade-to-celtics/

Also:

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=319389 (1h.17m)

"We have the ability to get this team back into contention quicker than alot of people think we'll be able to do it".

[NavLDO]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240982/Ryan-McDonough-Admits-Mistake-Of-Trading-Away-Isaiah-Thomas

Ryan McDonough regrets his decision for the Phoenix Suns to trade Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics during the 2015 trade deadline for a first round pick.

“I think in retrospect trading Isaiah Thomas when we did was a mistake,” McDonough said. “I think sometimes in the recruitment process things sound better in July (luring Thomas in free agency) than they do in November.

“He wanted more, he wanted a bigger role and I understand why: He’s a talented player,” McDonough added. “In retrospect, we should have carried him into the summer. If there’s one (decision) that stands out, if I could get a mulligan, that’d be it.”

Wonder what he'll say after Knight is off the team...

I look at it like this. While yes, it was a bad trade in hindsight, had we not made it, we'd still be on the treadmill. The biggest regret would be not getting more back.
If we kept him, we'd have the Lakers pick, but our own would be closer to 10-12 than 3-4.

I think McD is implying that he should have traded IT in the summertime, not at the trade deadline. So we would still suck most likely (depending on what he got back in the summertime, and of course the injuries).

That's a lot of speculation, I think. There's a good chance we were a bit better last year, keeping IT, and we may have lost Booker due to it, but additionally, and my main point, is we have no idea what kind of pkg IT would have pulled in during the summer. It could have been something that made us immediately better, vice a 1st and Thornton. It might have been a 1st last year, instead of this year, thus giving us another rookie that may have been as good or better than Booker, or it could have been a better starting PF (though Teletovic has been tearing it up as of late!)

Anyway, it's just too much speculation, and while playing the 'what if' game is fun to think about, and like you said, we have no idea what the deal would've been in the summer. Another 'what if' scenario COULD have been we traded IT, and maybe Warren in a pkg for a young, starter-level SG, which may have persuaded McD NOT to take Booker, and take Oubre instead, or maybe Cameron Payne or RHJ. A lot of things COULD have happened, including a career-ending injury for Bledsoe, thus keeping IT.

I think McD just feels he could have netted a more 'valuable' package for IT, had we kept him; and I think he probably wishes he didn't make as many trades as he did, and I think he regrets the Bucks deal more than anything.

And a couple more things 'I think'...'I think' McD had the IT deal 'done' with the Celtics, or at least the framework of the major pieces, a week or two earlier, thinking we'd have a Bledsoe/Dragic backfield again. And 'I think' McD scrambled a bit with the Bucks trade, since Gor-'wah' Dragic threw a hissy fit within the last week before the deadline, leading to the Heat deal. 'I think' it's possible, that had he planned on trading Dragic, he would not have planned a trade of IT, keeping an IT/Bledsoe backcourt, and hence, why he's feeling a sense of 'remorse' over that deal, realizing that IT/Bledsoe is better than Knight/Bledsoe. McD won't ever come out and say something like this about Knight while he's still on the team, but 'I think' McD's REAL desire for a 'mulligan' actually includes NOT trading the LAL pick for Knight...and lastly, 'I think' Dragic forcing McD's hand includes a lot more than just two 1sts...'I think' Dragic forced a trade of IT, and a trade FOR Knight, because to me, the Buck's deal was a very 'un-McD-like' deal.

[NavLDO]

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs. Sure, the common argument is that team over achieved and wasn't a contender blah blah blah... yet some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way. That was a team that gelled, that coveted chemistry. They deserved a second run. The city did too. Instead, McDoItMyWay miscalculated with his off season maneuvers, ransacking the roster, and put this team into a personnel shuffling tailspin. We are still recovering. At least it is such a mess that we now have the best chance at a #1 since the legendary Lew AlCoinflip.

I have always been supportive of getting to the playoffs. To slam on Sarver for wanting that makes no sense to me. That should be/is the first step of winning a title. Hard to see teams going from worst to first. Often, it is the team that was turned away once, twice that ends up with the crown. (see Golden State)

We have no where to go but up now. I guess that is the benefit for being at the bottom. Problem is, the collateral damage getting there has effected the fan base and, may be more damaging, the league wide player perceptions of this Front Office.

Frank...what EXACTLY did McD 'dismantle' between the 48-34 season Suns, and the 39-43 season Suns? Between April 2014 to October 2014, the off-season... Oh yeah, he made "some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way" in acquiring IT. That was it.

Frye signed a crazy, unrealistic deal with the Magic, seen by most as being one of the worst contracts in the NBA, so no, McD didn't 'dismantle' anything between those two seasons. The dismantling didn't come until 'Cry-Baby' Dragic couldn't handle the fact that IT was on the team...he couldn't WAIT a couple of weeks for IT to be traded...Dragic and Kieff and CusMo dismantled that team, Frank, NOT McD. McD got caught having to react because a grown man couldn't handle the fact that his play was declining, and thus was reaching, grasping at any excuse he could for why he was declining. But that was at the trade deadline, Frank, not between seasons. Between seasons, McD did exactly what you are suggesting, keeping the core together, and making "subtle improvements"; so who you should REALLY be upset with is Dragic/Kieff, not McD.

You might want to re-think your 'revisionist' take on the ACTUAL history. I'm glad I was able to help clear that up for you...

[jcsunsfan]

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs. Sure, the common argument is that team over achieved and wasn't a contender blah blah blah... yet some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way. That was a team that gelled, that coveted chemistry. They deserved a second run. The city did too. Instead, McDoItMyWay miscalculated with his off season maneuvers, ransacking the roster, and put this team into a personnel shuffling tailspin. We are still recovering. At least it is such a mess that we now have the best chance at a #1 since the legendary Lew AlCoinflip.

I have always been supportive of getting to the playoffs. To slam on Sarver for wanting that makes no sense to me. That should be/is the first step of winning a title. Hard to see teams going from worst to first. Often, it is the team that was turned away once, twice that ends up with the crown. (see Golden State)

We have no where to go but up now. I guess that is the benefit for being at the bottom. Problem is, the collateral damage getting there has effected the fan base and, may be more damaging, the league wide player perceptions of this Front Office.

Frank...what EXACTLY did McD 'dismantle' between the 48-34 season Suns, and the 39-43 season Suns? Between April 2014 to October 2014, the off-season. Oh yeah, he "some subtle improvements/additions could have gone a long way" in acquiring IT. That was it.

Frye signed a crazy, unrealistic deal with the Magic, seen by most as being one of the worst contracts in the NBA, so no, McD didn't 'dismantle' anything between those two seasons. The dismantling didn't come until 'Cry-Baby' Dragic couldn't; handle the fact that IT was on the team...he couldn't WAIT a couple of weeks for IT to be traded...Dragic and Kieff and CusMo dismantled that team, Frank, NOT McD. McD got caught having to react because a grown man couldn't handle the fact that his play was declining, and thus was reaching, grasping at any excuse he could for why he was declining. But that was at the trade deadline, Frank, not between seasons. Between seasons, McD did exactly what you are suggesting, keeping the core together, and making "subtle improvements"; so who you should REALLY be upset with is Dragic/Kieff, not McD.

You might want to re-think your 'revisionist' take on the ACTUAL history. I'm glad I was able to help clear that up for you...

Frye signed a huge, unreasonable contract and was too old for our reasonable rebuild anyway. He was hurt most of the following year.

Bledsoe was a holdout from FA discussions with no contact whatsoever. It looked like we were potentially going to lose him to a 1 year minimum deal and run. IT and his guys saw that opportunity and signed. Then we did sign Bledsoe and IT didn't like it. Signing IT gave us leverage with Bledsoe. I cannot see what McD could have done differently.

Goran wanted to be the ball-handler. That is why he left. He probably would have left anyway. He was going to get a huge huge offer in free agency. Maybe we could have kept Goran if we had not signed Bledsoe or McD could have micromanaged the coach and demanded that Goran be the primary ball-handler.

I am not sure what McD could have done differently. Maybe not traded the Laker pick for Knight. Got more for IT. People who expect GM's to win every deal are unrealistic, there has been no GM in history that has done that.

[Son of Ra]

If we sign Lawson I'm gonna lose my ****...

[saintEscaton]

If we sign Lawson I'm gonna lose my ****...

Maybe PJ can help him join a 12-Step Program. Suns can get their own Alcoholics Anonymous reality TV show

[bwgood77]

I look at it like this. While yes, it was a bad trade in hindsight, had we not made it, we'd still be on the treadmill. The biggest regret would be not getting more back.
If we kept him, we'd have the Lakers pick, but our own would be closer to 10-12 than 3-4.

I think McD is implying that he should have traded IT in the summertime, not at the trade deadline. So we would still suck most likely (depending on what he got back in the summertime, and of course the injuries).

That's a lot of speculation, I think. There's a good chance we were a bit better last year, keeping IT, and we may have lost Booker due to it, but additionally, and my main point, is we have no idea what kind of pkg IT would have pulled in during the summer. It could have been something that made us immediately better, vice a 1st and Thornton. It might have been a 1st last year, instead of this year, thus giving us another rookie that may have been as good or better than Booker, or it could have been a better starting PF (though Teletovic has been tearing it up as of late!)

Anyway, it's just too much speculation, and while playing the 'what if' game is fun to think about, and like you said, we have no idea what the deal would've been in the summer. Another 'what if' scenario COULD have been we traded IT, and maybe Warren in a pkg for a young, starter-level SG, which may have persuaded McD NOT to take Booker, and take Oubre instead, or maybe Cameron Payne or RHJ. A lot of things COULD have happened, including a career-ending injury for Bledsoe, thus keeping IT.

I think McD just feels he could have netted a more 'valuable' package for IT, had we kept him; and I think he probably wishes he didn't make as many trades as he did, and I think he regrets the Bucks deal more than anything.

And a couple more things 'I think'...'I think' McD had the IT deal 'done' with the Celtics, or at least the framework of the major pieces, a week or two earlier, thinking we'd have a Bledsoe/Dragic backfield again. And 'I think' McD scrambled a bit with the Bucks trade, since Gor-'wah' Dragic threw a hissy fit within the last week before the deadline, leading to the Heat deal. 'I think' it's possible, that had he planned on trading Dragic, he would not have planned a trade of IT, keeping an IT/Bledsoe backcourt, and hence, why he's feeling a sense of 'remorse' over that deal, realizing that IT/Bledsoe is better than Knight/Bledsoe. McD won't ever come out and say something like this about Knight while he's still on the team, but 'I think' McD's REAL desire for a 'mulligan' actually includes NOT trading the LAL pick for Knight...and lastly, 'I think' Dragic forcing McD's hand includes a lot more than just two 1sts...'I think' Dragic forced a trade of IT, and a trade FOR Knight, because to me, the Buck's deal was a very 'un-McD-like' deal.

I like how you call someone out for speculation and then go on to do some massive speculating. I'm not sure what McD was thinking, and I think you possibly could be right, but to me his mulligan comments don't make sense...they almost contradict one another.

“I think in retrospect trading Isaiah Thomas when we did was a mistake,” he said of last season's trade deadline deal with the Boston Celtics. “I think sometimes in the recruitment process things sound better in July (luring Thomas in free agency) than they do in November."

The first comment sounds like he thinks he shouldn't have traded him. The second comment sounds like he thinks he shouldn't have signed him.

Both of these could be true, because chemistry got screwed up (by signing him) and it caused Dragic to want to leave, but then after that trade, he could have stopped the trades. So in that case, he is possibly in a round about way trying to say he shouldn't have signed him, but then once he traded Dragic anyway he shouldn't have traded IT.

I've thought before that perhaps the IT trade was set up prior to the Dragic fiasco and he didn't want to go back on his word.

But the biggest mistake of all is the Knight trade. I don't think I would have wanted to give that contract to Knight in FA, much less give up Ennis and the Lakers pick for him.

But of course this is all speculation, and that trade deadline, at least after the Dragic trade, was a disaster as was this past offseason. The Markieff trade is finally a positive (but again, the whole result of him needing to trade him was partially brought on by himself).

Hopefully he figures something out this summer and has a good draft, but if we end up giving a bunch of money to a mediocre or aging vet who doesn't move the needle and prevents younger guys from playing more, I'll say I've had enough, despite the drafting....wouldn't mind moving him to lead draft scout if he was game or something, but that's probably it if he botches another any more FA signings or makes stupid trades.