2015 Draft Hindsight

[JDR720]

frank still could be a solid player, but it is pretty irritating to see the other rookies picked past him playing so well. i feel like we never draft a guy who out does their draft position.

i think the pf argument is partially true, we have drafted 3 straight top 10 pick pf's but they all have serious flaws we should've known about if we did proper research/scouting.

Cody isn't and never was a pf, he was an uber-athletic but well-undersized center that we decided could be a pf even though he never showed any real pf skills (shooting, dribble etc.)

Vonleh had the perfect body and pf skillset for a modern pf, but it turned out he was dumb which is why he fell so far in the draft, we should've known about that pretty fatal flaw.

Frank has the modern pf skillset, but is a bit small(strength/wingspan) and not very athletic. he was also a very late bloomer which might mean he is close to his peak. also the fact we didn't work him out or interview him (that we know of) makes me think this was a last minute decision (by MJ according to rumors)

[JDR720]

now that im thinking about it, all of our draft picks have had some pretty major flaws

Kemba is small, even for a PG.
MKG had/has a broken jumper. (and turns out to be super injury prone)
Vonleh is dumb.
Biz cant/couldn't catch a ball.
Cody is quite small and relatively unskilled.
Frank isn't athletic and is weak.
PJ is dumb.
Taylor turned out to be a drunk, girlfriend shoving viking.

[Elden Payton]

now that im thinking about it, all of our draft picks have had some pretty major flaws

Kemba is small, even for a PG.
MKG had/has a broken jumper. (and turns out to be super injury prone)
Vonleh is dumb.
Biz cant/couldn't catch a ball.
Cody is quite small and relatively unskilled.
Frank isn't athletic and is weak.
PJ is dumb.
Taylor turned out to be a drunk, girlfriend shoving viking.

#11
#2
#9
#7
#4
#9
#26
#31

We've not really had a chance to draft a can't miss player.

Kemba was a good pick and I even think Biz was a good pick, we just dumped him too early.

MKG was the right pick imo, he's my favourite player and I'd take Drummond the second time around... but MKG literally changed the culture of our franchise so I can't fault it.

Cody was a good pick imo and I'm hoping he's here for years to come.

We pulled out of our rebuild too early imo and the last couple of drafts have really hurt us, if we'd taken Winslow we were set for the next 10 years on the wings and that is a GREAT starting point to get it right.

[JDR720]

its not about picking a perfect or cant miss player those almost dont exist, its that most of their flaws cant or are unlikely to be fixed which will limit their ceiling.

[Elden Payton]

its not about picking a perfect or cant miss player those almost dont exist, its that most of their flaws cant or are unlikely to be fixed which will limit their ceiling.

I do think that MKG will continue to progress on his jumper and I don't believe Biz' hands will affect him because of the type of player he is.

I do agree though that Kemba will never get taller, Noah will probably always be as dumb as a brick and Frank will not qualify for the Olympics for anything in this lifetime.

Hopefully we strike gold in the mid first round of this (weak) draft.

[JDR720]

its not about picking a perfect or cant miss player those almost dont exist, its that most of their flaws cant or are unlikely to be fixed which will limit their ceiling.

I do think that MKG will continue to progress on his jumper and I don't believe Biz' hands will affect him because of the type of player he is.

I do agree though that Kemba will never get taller, Noah will probably always be as dumb as a brick and Frank will not qualify for the Olympics for anything in this lifetime.

Hopefully we strike gold in the mid first round of this (weak) draft.

i think the new drafting requirement should be

- an NBA body for his position (height,wingspan,reach) can work on weight/strength so thats ok.
- at least an average athlete (by position)
- not stupid off the court and at least an average bbiq/good intangibles.
- at least two good NBA skills (shooting,defense,rebounding,passing etc) or one elite skill (also depends on what that skill is)
- no major positional weaknesses (dont want a center that cant defend the paint for example)

getting this back on topic for the 2015 draft lets see if these players have these requirements.

Spoiler:

Frank
NBA Body for a PF? yes
Average Athlete for a PF? no
Not dumb/intangibles? yes
two good nba skills? yes (shooting/passing)
no major positional weakness? yes

Winslow
NBA body for a SG? yes
Average Athlete? yes
Not dumb?/intangibles yes
two good nba skills? yes (defense/rebounding)
no major weakness? no (shooting)


Booker
NBA body? yes
average athlete? yes
not dumb/intangibles? yes
two good nba skills? no. one elite NBA skill? yes (shooting)
no major weakness? yes

Turner
NBA body? yes
average athlete? no (for PF, yes for C)
not dumb/intangibles? yes
two good nba skills? yes (defense, shooting)
no major weakness? yes (no if center,rebounding)

so, based on that and assuming turner is a center/

1-Booker
2-Winslow (shooting is relatively easy to fix)
3-Center Turner
4-Frank

turner is ahead of frank because rebounding could be fixed, but frank's athletic ability cant be.

obviously it isn't a perfect system, but its probably better than cho's "3 C's" or whatever he calls it.

[Elden Payton]

Bookers defence sucks so I'd say that's his positional weakness but great job JDR.

[JMAC3]

Hey Guys, apologies up front, I am about to go in on this post. I watch far too much basketball and don't pay for league pass for nothing. I understand if you do not read, but I promise a few good thoughts may be hidden in here.

So first off, I am not sure everybody gets the point of this thread. I think what Fats meant was who was the guy you wanted to take the 2 days before the draft and then who did you want when we came on the clock that night. Not who you would take if the draft were today.

I think this because at the time I remember a ton of us posters wanting Cameron Payne, Kelly Oubre, Jerrian Grant, Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow. This may be because of who we all thought was gonna go earlier, so many of you could of had Winslow as a top 5 guy I suppose. But I do not remember but maybe 1-3 guys really talking about Myles Turner. As you can see below here thread was only 3 pages long compared to most being 8-20. Many people were not interested in him at all, including myself, and the ones who were seemed to have major hesitation. And he was not mocked to be a top 10 guy, so you would think he would of had more chatter.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1386753&start=40#start_here

The main guys I liked were Hezonja, WCS, Stanley Johnson, and Devin Booker.

Guys I didn't like were Turner, Frank, Oubre, and Payne

I was pretty neutral on Winslow, Lyles, and Portis.


Brief Prospect Breakdown
My thoughts before draft/ My thoughts on player now

Towns- Thought he was no brainer #1/ Thoughts now is he is on same level as Anthony Davis. F the twolves.
Russell- Liked his potential as a creative PG who could score- CP3 lite/ Thoughts now is fire B.Scott and let him roll
Okafor- Thought he would win ROY/ Not in love with his overall game and attitude, but still worth a top 5 pick.
Kristaps- Didn't like him for us, but thought he was talented/ Jesus, he makes me look like a dummy haha, please dont stop reading.

Hezonja- Loved his aggressiveness and athleticism/ Think he is a year away from being Belinelli with Balls- and ceiling is high
WCS- Thought it wasn't sexy, but knew we needed a Center soon and thought he was a good replacement for Biz/ Not disappointed we missed on him, but I think he will be very Nerlens Noel like soon
Mudiay- Was wishy wash on him, knew the talent was there/ Great athlete and great vision, no jumper... but plays just like JWall. Happy we didn't throw the kitchen sink at him with the way Kemba has played.

Stanley Johnson- Loved his winning pedigree, his NBA ready body, and his versatility/ watching him this year he moves around a little stiff and does not seem to be anything special with the ball yet, but think Detroit is great place for him to develop slowly. I think him and Frank are kinda on the same level of impact this season.

Frank Kaminsky- Longest one.....

Before the draft, did not want him. Spent months watching college basketball and thought no way we take another PF in this draft especially from Big Ten. When we drafted him on that night I must of pulled a Michael Scott moment like Frank was secretly Toby- "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO" my roommates still give me **** about it. I was hoping we were gonna make a trade down and that landed us either Booker or Winslow some how. But......... after I had time to think about it, it made more sense. I really didnt have much time to process the Vonleh and Hendo for Batum deal. That move really reshaped the landscape of our team along with trading Lance for Hawes and Lamb. All of sudden we appeared to be much more ready to handle the wing. I think that trade happened a day or 2 before the draft and I was mostly in shock. I would say I was still not a fan of the pick and would rather have Booker at the time.

Now, half way through the year I am coming around to the idea of Frank. Even though he has been up and down this season, I really like his intangibles he brings and how easy he is to play in almost any lineup. He has a lot of versatility and I think that will only get better as he gets stronger and eventually able to play some stretch 5- If Frye and Horford can I think Frank will be able to in a year or 2. Also, now that we have traded Vonleh, and Cody has shown he is much better as a Center than a PF this pick makes more sense. Cody should of been a Center all along, 7 foot tall, played Center in college and never took jumpers. Especially with Marvin becoming a FA. I sometimes get frustrated watching guys like Turner and Booker have big games and think why did we take Frank? Is he even gonna get better?

This is where I am excited to see what happens. Frank is far from a finished player. He was a late bloomer in college and I think he really is more on the level of a college Jr. as far as skill set goes. He like Anthony Davis went from being a guard his JR. year in high school to being a 7 foot center in college. He did not adjust as fast a Davis, not the end of the world. He brings a lot of unique skill sets for his position that allow us to be a unique basketball team. He is 7 foot tall, can shoot the three with a high volume- % will go up, he is a skilled passer and high IQ big, he is a crafty player for his size with pump fakes on the perimeter and the ability to get past his guy and sometimes flash some of those above the norm handles. However, he still lacks a midrange game, a consistent post up game, elite rebounding, and strength to finish consistently.

This is where he has a ton of room for development. He is gonna get better at shooting the 3- which is a huge weapon, He is going to get stronger- Wisconsin does not focus on the weight room very much/ more emphasis on skill level, look at their players they are never very big. Once he gets stronger he is gonna start to be a better rebounder, he is gonna pump fake and drive without getting bumped into picking up his dribble and instead take that extra dribble for the finger roll finish, and once he is stronger he will be a better post up player. The biggest thing he will fix is his midrange game- how many times does he pump fake, take one dribble pick it up and kick to the shooter next to him when he is open? Once he gets a more confident 1 dribble pull up he is gonna be a hard cover on the perimeter. If you close too slow- 3 pointer, if close out too fast he is gonna go by you for the layup, if you have a defender under the rim he will pull for a midrange, if that second defender comes to help he is already a skilled passer. He is not far away from being a good offensive weapon- even at his current strength level and lack of midrange game and not a great 3 point shooter- he is still a threat to go for double digits. Once he gets a few of those things nailed down he can be a 16 ppg player, who makes good decisions, and is not a liability on the defensive end.

Justice Winslow- Before the draft did not love him because him and MKG were redundant, really most scouts thought he was a tweener because he played a lot of 4 for Duke and did not see him do much from the perimeter other than transition buckets- sound like anyone? I liked his defense for sure, but his lack of shooting and late draft surge had me concerned/ Now watching him, I like him as a player, I think he is a good fit on the Heat, but I still stand by the fact that I do not think he and MKG can be the wings of the future for the Hornets. He has been far from amazing this season( double figures 10 times, and season high of 15 pts). I love what I have seen from him on the defensive end, but we already have that in MKG, hindsight sure he is hurt, but this is supposed to be without knowing that would happen. He is shooting under 25% from three and hit a total of 23 of them, He is averaging less than a steal a game, and just .4 blocks a game. Other than rebounding he does not seem to project as an elite stat guy. I think he is a great intangible guy, but far from a perfect fit on our team.

And just for reference- Frank 45 3s made, just under 33%, averaging more pts (23 season high), and has a higher PER. Also 18 double figure scoring games- including 10 at least tie Winslow season high (15).

Myles Turner- Thought he was soft, overrated shooter, and was worried about knees/ He has definitely outplayed his draft position so far and looks to be a really talented offensive player. However, I think he is a better stats guy than actual player. He rarely passes once he touches the ball, takes a lot of bad shots- hits some, and seems to be a really bad defender in space- see both games vs us, 26 for Marvin last night, and 18 combined for Marvin/Frank game before. He is still really young and will probably fix a lot of that, but he is not out of the water yet with these injury concerns... he has already missed 20 games this season.

Trey Lyles- Thought he was a tweener who didnt stand out very often on that kentucky team/ he still seems a bit small for the PF watching him play, but uses his quickness well, they have him shooting corner 3s and I think Quinn Snyder is one of the most underrated coaches in the NBA- great team defense, a lot of fun action on offense that seems to get the most of out his players. I guess he is a solid pick because he is a third big on that team behind Favors and Gobert, but not disappointed we missed out on him.

Devin Booker- Did not like this guy early in the process, thought he was a one dimensional guy. The further I looked into him the more I liked him and I think he was my favorite going into the draft night. I always love great shooting wings tho- because thats how I play, Loved Beal and Klay too. He had his moments at Kentucky where he stood out as maybe the best player, unlike Lyles./ Watching him now I think he is going to be a very good player, his shooting has translated to the league better than most thought right away. He is playing a ton of minutes with a beat up and bad Suns team, and he is probably their first option a lot of the time. They use him at the elbow a lot and his usage is pretty high for a spot up shooter. He moves off the ball well and gets a lot of easy buckets because of it. He is only guy I am kinda upset about not picking over Frank, but this could change if we resign Batum and Frank develops into a Chris Bosh lite.

Payne- thought he was a backup Pg/ Looks like a backup pg, get a lot of wide open threes on OKC, and is scrappy defender.

Oubre- Didnt like his work ethic, passive scoring, and did not seem to play hard/ He is an ok defender, gets a good amount of open corner threes off John Wall kickouts, but other than that havent seen him do much that stands out in the 6-7 games I have watched.

Portis- Thought he was an unsexy pick, good rebounder, decent offensive guy, not a 9th pick guy/ I think he might be the most overrated player in this draft right now, I have watched a good amount of bulls game and this guy is basically a better rebounding Speights. He is a black hole on offense and takes a lot of bad shots- makes some. I saw him shoot the first 7 times he touched the ball one game, he made 3, but only 1-2 were quality shots. I think he still was a good value pick for where they got him, but beware this guy could be a Michael Beasley type.

Outside the lottery- really has not been much noise made, so that Boston trade pretty much would of sucked. Knowing us we would have Tyus Jones and RJ Hunter and thinking to ourselves, we could of had Booker, Turner, Kaminsky, or Winslow.... what a dumb move.

In summary- I really hated the pick when it happened, sorry Frank. Today- I dont mind the pick. Next season- I think many of us will be claiming we believed in Frank all along- just like we do with Kemba, MKG, and Cody now- who this board threw shade at for years. Vonleh was picked 9th, but nobody behind him is setting the world on fire- Think we did good to get BPA and trade him for above value.

Booker is the only guy I am kinda shaking my head at, but even if Turner and Winslow end up being good players. I can understand why we passed on them. Think we are in good spot this draft to grab BPA because of drafting Frank, otherwise we would have yet again another huge hole at PF this season.

Thanks for reading guys!!!

[Benjamin Linus]

I think I had all of these guys ranked ahead of Frank before the draft. Frank was the one guy I didn't want us to draft. I've loosened up on the pick since he has the skillset to be a decent fit on our roster and in today's NBA, but I'm still concerned with his upside. This team still has a talent deficit and needed to swing higher on upside than a fit piece.

Hindsight, I'd still probably take just about everyone on that list over Frank, although I'm not completely bearish on Frank and still think he could be a solid player. The Boston deal, however, was a complete garbage offer. The only thing that interested me was the Brooklyn pick, but that was never going to be included in the deal.

[Hornet Mania]

I was in favor of Winslow at the time and I am still in favor of Winslow today. Top 5 talent, hard worker that fits our culture, and I wasn't terribly concerned with MKG overlap. If Winslow has to come off the bench a year or two so be it, that means we have an ace perimeter defender on the floor for all 48 minutes. Nothing against Frank but I would be shocked if Winslow is not considered an undeniably superior player when all is said and done in both their careers.

I wasn't too hyped for Turner or Booker, they were more the "you could do worse" option but I did prefer both to Frank at that time. I did lean slightly more towards Booker between them if all the more preferable options that could potentially fall to us had already been selected (in no special order those were Mario, WCS, Porzingis, Mudiay, Winslow and Stanley Johnson).

If we're assuming that Brooklyn's deal was as weak as the one Fats posits in the first post I would pass on that trade. If we got Brooklyn's pick this year (as far as I know it was the 'crown jewel' of the bounty Ainge offered according to a few of the rumors) I would have taken the deal without much hesitation though. Winslow is going to be a fine player but he's not such an incredible prospect that I'd keep him instead of taking a shot at a 40% chance of landing a top 3 pick (11% chance of 1st pick) plus the additional stuff.

[yosemiteben]

I honestly can't believe people think drafting Frank is a good thing.

Are you even able to recognize that his skillset does fit well with the modern NBA, or are you just rolling with "he's a project and he sucks" being the extent of your analysis of his game?

I don't understand your over the top negativity here. There's a big difference between saying you don't like the pick and saying he sucks, it's the worst decision we've ever made, yadda yadda yadda.

[Elden Payton]

I honestly can't believe people think drafting Frank is a good thing.

Are you even able to recognize that his skillset does fit well with the modern NBA, or are you just rolling with "he's a project and he sucks" being the extent of your analysis of his game?

I don't understand your over the top negativity here. There's a big difference between saying you don't like the pick and saying he sucks, it's the worst decision we've ever made, yadda yadda yadda.

He's averaging 7.6/4.0 and shooting .403 as a big... playing over 21mpg.

We passed on much better prospects who were a better fit to reach on this guy.

Winslow, Booker and Turner all have much better skillsets for the modern NBA.

Just because our team drafted him doesn't mean we have to delude ourselves into believing it was good that we did so.

We hit the jackpot with Winslow being available and in true CLT fashion...we blew it.

Kaminsky has been flat out horrible for the last month and it is clear that his 'skillset' is overrated.

I don't understand your over the top positivity and it's borderline homerism imo.

[yosemiteben]

Just because our team drafted him doesn't mean we have to delude ourselves into believing it was good that we did so.

And no one is saying you should. "Brain dead / worst decision we've ever made" is a little different than that though.

Kaminsky has been flat out horrible for the last month and it is clear that his 'skillset' is overrated.

He's been up and down, but you are being foolish if you are judging him based on a month of his rookie season, unless you're ready to write off Booker because of his 33% FG% over the last month.

[Elden Payton]

Just because our team drafted him doesn't mean we have to delude ourselves into believing it was good that we did so.

And no one is saying you should. "Brain dead / worst decision we've ever made" is a little different than that though.

Kaminsky has been flat out horrible for the last month and it is clear that his 'skillset' is overrated.

He's been up and down, but you are being foolish if you are judging him based on a month of his rookie season, unless you're ready to write off Booker because of his 33% FG% over the last month.

That draft was the crossroads for our team, we could have gone in either direction and in true CLT fashion we went the wrong way.

I'm not even a big Booker fan, he's 4 years younger than Frank though and has a better skillset for the modern NBA.

Winslow was the pick, I said so a month before the draft, leading up to the draft and during the draft.

We didn't even have a Winslow thread before I started one and it was because no one thought he would be available.

The pick was absolutely brain dead then and it's even worse now imo.

I predicted the first 8 picks down to a man so I'm not doing this in hindsight either.

I think you are the one being foolish personally.

[Diop]

Hey Guys, apologies up front, I am about to go in on this post. I watch far too much basketball and don't pay for league pass for nothing. I understand if you do not read, but I promise a few good thoughts may be hidden in here.

So first off, I am not sure everybody gets the point of this thread. I think what Fats meant was who was the guy you wanted to take the 2 days before the draft and then who did you want when we came on the clock that night. Not who you would take if the draft were today.

I think this because at the time I remember a ton of us posters wanting Cameron Payne, Kelly Oubre, Jerrian Grant, Stanley Johnson and Justice Winslow. This may be because of who we all thought was gonna go earlier, so many of you could of had Winslow as a top 5 guy I suppose. But I do not remember but maybe 1-3 guys really talking about Myles Turner. As you can see below here thread was only 3 pages long compared to most being 8-20. Many people were not interested in him at all, including myself, and the ones who were seemed to have major hesitation. And he was not mocked to be a top 10 guy, so you would think he would of had more chatter.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1386753&start=40#start_here

The main guys I liked were Hezonja, WCS, Stanley Johnson, and Devin Booker.

Guys I didn't like were Turner, Frank, Oubre, and Payne

I was pretty neutral on Winslow, Lyles, and Portis.


Brief Prospect Breakdown
My thoughts before draft/ My thoughts on player now

Towns- Thought he was no brainer #1/ Thoughts now is he is on same level as Anthony Davis. F the twolves.
Russell- Liked his potential as a creative PG who could score- CP3 lite/ Thoughts now is fire B.Scott and let him roll
Okafor- Thought he would win ROY/ Not in love with his overall game and attitude, but still worth a top 5 pick.
Kristaps- Didn't like him for us, but thought he was talented/ Jesus, he makes me look like a dummy haha, please dont stop reading.

Hezonja- Loved his aggressiveness and athleticism/ Think he is a year away from being Belinelli with Balls- and ceiling is high
WCS- Thought it wasn't sexy, but knew we needed a Center soon and thought he was a good replacement for Biz/ Not disappointed we missed on him, but I think he will be very Nerlens Noel like soon
Mudiay- Was wishy wash on him, knew the talent was there/ Great athlete and great vision, no jumper... but plays just like JWall. Happy we didn't throw the kitchen sink at him with the way Kemba has played.

Stanley Johnson- Loved his winning pedigree, his NBA ready body, and his versatility/ watching him this year he moves around a little stiff and does not seem to be anything special with the ball yet, but think Detroit is great place for him to develop slowly. I think him and Frank are kinda on the same level of impact this season.

Frank Kaminsky- Longest one.....

Before the draft, did not want him. Spent months watching college basketball and thought no way we take another PF in this draft especially from Big Ten. When we drafted him on that night I must of pulled a Michael Scott moment like Frank was secretly Toby- "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO" my roommates still give me **** about it. I was hoping we were gonna make a trade down and that landed us either Booker or Winslow some how. But......... after I had time to think about it, it made more sense. I really didnt have much time to process the Vonleh and Hendo for Batum deal. That move really reshaped the landscape of our team along with trading Lance for Hawes and Lamb. All of sudden we appeared to be much more ready to handle the wing. I think that trade happened a day or 2 before the draft and I was mostly in shock. I would say I was still not a fan of the pick and would rather have Booker at the time.

Now, half way through the year I am coming around to the idea of Frank. Even though he has been up and down this season, I really like his intangibles he brings and how easy he is to play in almost any lineup. He has a lot of versatility and I think that will only get better as he gets stronger and eventually able to play some stretch 5- If Frye and Horford can I think Frank will be able to in a year or 2. Also, now that we have traded Vonleh, and Cody has shown he is much better as a Center than a PF this pick makes more sense. Cody should of been a Center all along, 7 foot tall, played Center in college and never took jumpers. Especially with Marvin becoming a FA. I sometimes get frustrated watching guys like Turner and Booker have big games and think why did we take Frank? Is he even gonna get better?

This is where I am excited to see what happens. Frank is far from a finished player. He was a late bloomer in college and I think he really is more on the level of a college Jr. as far as skill set goes. He like Anthony Davis went from being a guard his JR. year in high school to being a 7 foot center in college. He did not adjust as fast a Davis, not the end of the world. He brings a lot of unique skill sets for his position that allow us to be a unique basketball team. He is 7 foot tall, can shoot the three with a high volume- % will go up, he is a skilled passer and high IQ big, he is a crafty player for his size with pump fakes on the perimeter and the ability to get past his guy and sometimes flash some of those above the norm handles. However, he still lacks a midrange game, a consistent post up game, elite rebounding, and strength to finish consistently.

This is where he has a ton of room for development. He is gonna get better at shooting the 3- which is a huge weapon, He is going to get stronger- Wisconsin does not focus on the weight room very much/ more emphasis on skill level, look at their players they are never very big. Once he gets stronger he is gonna start to be a better rebounder, he is gonna pump fake and drive without getting bumped into picking up his dribble and instead take that extra dribble for the finger roll finish, and once he is stronger he will be a better post up player. The biggest thing he will fix is his midrange game- how many times does he pump fake, take one dribble pick it up and kick to the shooter next to him when he is open? Once he gets a more confident 1 dribble pull up he is gonna be a hard cover on the perimeter. If you close too slow- 3 pointer, if close out too fast he is gonna go by you for the layup, if you have a defender under the rim he will pull for a midrange, if that second defender comes to help he is already a skilled passer. He is not far away from being a good offensive weapon- even at his current strength level and lack of midrange game and not a great 3 point shooter- he is still a threat to go for double digits. Once he gets a few of those things nailed down he can be a 16 ppg player, who makes good decisions, and is not a liability on the defensive end.

Justice Winslow- Before the draft did not love him because him and MKG were redundant, really most scouts thought he was a tweener because he played a lot of 4 for Duke and did not see him do much from the perimeter other than transition buckets- sound like anyone? I liked his defense for sure, but his lack of shooting and late draft surge had me concerned/ Now watching him, I like him as a player, I think he is a good fit on the Heat, but I still stand by the fact that I do not think he and MKG can be the wings of the future for the Hornets. He has been far from amazing this season( double figures 10 times, and season high of 15 pts). I love what I have seen from him on the defensive end, but we already have that in MKG, hindsight sure he is hurt, but this is supposed to be without knowing that would happen. He is shooting under 25% from three and hit a total of 23 of them, He is averaging less than a steal a game, and just .4 blocks a game. Other than rebounding he does not seem to project as an elite stat guy. I think he is a great intangible guy, but far from a perfect fit on our team.

And just for reference- Frank 45 3s made, just under 33%, averaging more pts (23 season high), and has a higher PER. Also 18 double figure scoring games- including 10 at least tie Winslow season high (15).

Myles Turner- Thought he was soft, overrated shooter, and was worried about knees/ He has definitely outplayed his draft position so far and looks to be a really talented offensive player. However, I think he is a better stats guy than actual player. He rarely passes once he touches the ball, takes a lot of bad shots- hits some, and seems to be a really bad defender in space- see both games vs us, 26 for Marvin last night, and 18 combined for Marvin/Frank game before. He is still really young and will probably fix a lot of that, but he is not out of the water yet with these injury concerns... he has already missed 20 games this season.

Trey Lyles- Thought he was a tweener who didnt stand out very often on that kentucky team/ he still seems a bit small for the PF watching him play, but uses his quickness well, they have him shooting corner 3s and I think Quinn Snyder is one of the most underrated coaches in the NBA- great team defense, a lot of fun action on offense that seems to get the most of out his players. I guess he is a solid pick because he is a third big on that team behind Favors and Gobert, but not disappointed we missed out on him.

Devin Booker- Did not like this guy early in the process, thought he was a one dimensional guy. The further I looked into him the more I liked him and I think he was my favorite going into the draft night. I always love great shooting wings tho- because thats how I play, Loved Beal and Klay too. He had his moments at Kentucky where he stood out as maybe the best player, unlike Lyles./ Watching him now I think he is going to be a very good player, his shooting has translated to the league better than most thought right away. He is playing a ton of minutes with a beat up and bad Suns team, and he is probably their first option a lot of the time. They use him at the elbow a lot and his usage is pretty high for a spot up shooter. He moves off the ball well and gets a lot of easy buckets because of it. He is only guy I am kinda upset about not picking over Frank, but this could change if we resign Batum and Frank develops into a Chris Bosh lite.

Payne- thought he was a backup Pg/ Looks like a backup pg, get a lot of wide open threes on OKC, and is scrappy defender.

Oubre- Didnt like his work ethic, passive scoring, and did not seem to play hard/ He is an ok defender, gets a good amount of open corner threes off John Wall kickouts, but other than that havent seen him do much that stands out in the 6-7 games I have watched.

Portis- Thought he was an unsexy pick, good rebounder, decent offensive guy, not a 9th pick guy/ I think he might be the most overrated player in this draft right now, I have watched a good amount of bulls game and this guy is basically a better rebounding Speights. He is a black hole on offense and takes a lot of bad shots- makes some. I saw him shoot the first 7 times he touched the ball one game, he made 3, but only 1-2 were quality shots. I think he still was a good value pick for where they got him, but beware this guy could be a Michael Beasley type.

Outside the lottery- really has not been much noise made, so that Boston trade pretty much would of sucked. Knowing us we would have Tyus Jones and RJ Hunter and thinking to ourselves, we could of had Booker, Turner, Kaminsky, or Winslow.... what a dumb move.

In summary- I really hated the pick when it happened, sorry Frank. Today- I dont mind the pick. Next season- I think many of us will be claiming we believed in Frank all along- just like we do with Kemba, MKG, and Cody now- who this board threw shade at for years. Vonleh was picked 9th, but nobody behind him is setting the world on fire- Think we did good to get BPA and trade him for above value.

Booker is the only guy I am kinda shaking my head at, but even if Turner and Winslow end up being good players. I can understand why we passed on them. Think we are in good spot this draft to grab BPA because of drafting Frank, otherwise we would have yet again another huge hole at PF this season.

Thanks for reading guys!!!

great read JMAC, summed it up well.

[HornetJail]

My ranking:
Winslow
Booker
Turner
picks
Frank
Oubre
Lyles
Payne

[Diop]

My ranking is probably:
Winslow - I get the double up in the skill, but I was willing to work it out later. Maybe trade him ala Vonleh
Frank
Booker
Turner

Frank's going to have a role in his league, be interesting to see how big it will end up

[Eoghan]

Alright, here's my full disclosure version:

Spoiler:

Guys I wanted most:

I would've been over the moon happy with any of these guys I deemed realistic gets at Charlotte's pick.

Mario Hezonja: He's every bit as good a shooter as Booker with better size and athleticism whilst sucking just as bad on defense. He would be fantastic in this Hornets offense and would be a dream complement to MKG in the future.

Stanley Johnson: Seems really versatile and polished for his age, I think he has the potential to be special, like Rudy Gay special without the me-first mentality. He can play/defend the 2/3/4 and has an MKG-like work ethic and confidence.

Willie Cauley-Stein: I love me some rim protectors and honestly he'd arguably be the Hornets best center right now. His offense is closer to Zeller's than Bismack's but he trumps Zeller in just about every other category.

Guys I liked, in order, that I didn't think would be there at Charlotte's pick so didn't really campaign for:

1. Jahlil Okafor: Okay, so I didn't figure on him becoming a complete malcontent but game-wise let's not cement him in as Big Al 2.0 yet. He's in a bad situation currently and needs veteran leadership and a coach that can reign him into a productive role in the worst way. I thought he was the best player in the draft and a ROY favorite but I keep forgetting that this is the rock & jock era of the NBA where everybody shoots pull-up threes constantly.

2. D'Angelo Russell: I didn't think he was the certain PG upgrade over Kemba like a lot on here did but I liked his ability to play some 2 and savvy passing and shooting ability enough not to argue with Russell lovers. FTR I hate taking PGs really high in the draft unless they have GOAT ability.

3. Karl Anthony-Towns: He's a lot better than I thought he was. Being in the crowded UK NBA factory I didn't realize he was so versatile offensively. I still think Okafor has more talent but KAT is a lot easier to build around these days.

4. Kristaps Porzingis: To be honest, I didn't know what to think of him other than High Risk/High Reward. I would bet significant money that he would have been a bust or chronically injured if Charlotte drafted him but that's me being pessimistic. I neither hated nor loved Porzingis, just stuck in wait-and-see mode.

Rank of the other guys:

1. Justise Winslow: See comments up thread.

2. Sam Dekker: This was my sleeper pick. Unfortunately he was drafted into Morey's Island of Misfit Trade Assets and injured too much. I was hoping he'd fill that Marv Williams stretch 4 role of good 3pt shooting, pesky rebounder and not crap on defense.

3. Emmanuel Mudiay: I'm not really in love with Mudiay. He really, really can't shoot, then or now. But at the time of the draft I wasn't in love with Kemba either b/c he really couldn't shoot either and at least Mudiay has great size for a PG and seemed like a better playmaker. I don't mind being proven wrong here by Kemba having his best season to date.

4. Kelly Oubre: Meh, a potential, swing-for-the-fences kind of pick. Charlotte has to hit on a Paul George-esque draft find at some point, right?

5. Devin Booker: Pegged him as just a dependent shooter, wasn't thrilled by his defense, athleticism or handles. But a great 3pt shooter is always a position of need for the Hornets so I wouldn't have been too upset with him.

6. Frank Kaminsky: Another safe, "what you see is what you get" pick for Charlotte. Low risk but low upside. He's better than I thought he'd be and secretly won me over with his better than average BBIQ and deceptive handles but I was not a fan of this pick.

7. Cameron Payne: Would've been okay just to fill backup PG. Had potential to be another small school Lillard/McCollum type so worth a roll of the dice although I wouldn't have spent a lotto pick on him, more of a trade down target.

8. Myles Turner: Decidedly on my DO NOT WANT list. The injury thing, yeah but mostly he just plain sucked in college. All he did was run the floor like a snail, make threes at an iffy percentage and his go-to move was a turnaround jumper despite continuous size advantage. He smelled too much like Samuel Dalembert to me, not my type of player at all. In hindsight I still don't think I would've drafted him.

Guys in no particular order:

Trey Lyles: Seemed like a 3/4 tweener with questionable shooting. I didn't know what his elite NBA skill/niche was and I still don't. Maybe he becomes another Paul Millsap or something, hell I don't know. Just never really paid much attention to him.

Rashad Vaughn: I liked this guy as a low-cost sharpshooter. Disappointed he hasn't been able to do much in Milwaukee.

Bobby Portis: I'm not surprised that he's having a good rookie year at all. He plays hard and he isn't elite at anything
but he just knows how to ball. That's how he was in college.

Kevon Looney: I had a soft spot for him as a Diaw/Lama Odom type of player. Had potential to be a good Swiss army knife forward for Charlotte.

RJ Hunter: Wasn't a big fan, thought he was drafted appropriately, maybe a little low.

Jerian Grant: Can't not be a fan of Jerian Grant and his thirst for winning. Not worth a lotto pick but would've been fine drafting him anywhere else in the 1st round.

Pat Connaughton: One of my dark horse guys, a for sure target if Charlotte had kept their 2nd rounder (like Charlotte would do such a thing).