A record breaking night? Game 59: Grizzlies at Suns

[MathiasPW]

I don't think len and chandler together for huge minutes is the best way to go but the fact horechek didn't try it for 15 minutes or so a night from the beginning of the season is ridiculous. Hell I posted when they signed chandler that I didnt love the signing but was OK with it if the suns got creative and played them together some. The league is going small so why not zig a little while the rest of the league zags and go really big for stretches of a game. Don't get me wrong it's not just coaching that makes len inconsistent but I feel like it hasn't helped his progression; Jeff fell in love with ultra small ball and at times buried him.

The zigging when everyone is zagging is pretty much what Pops decided to do when he went after Aldridge. And look at the spurs defense.

[NavLDO]

22/16 for Alex tonight and a monster putback

yeah so tonight, he is liked again... but next game he has a 6/4 game, he will be hated by some again.

People need to be patient with Len... who was merely a rebounder and shot alterer previously... he is just learning to be an offensive option.

Man, 1UPZ, you are the TRUTH! Up through January, it was "Len sucks..." or "Why didn't we pick Gobert..." etc., etc. Now, in February, and as I mentioned as much at the All-Star Break, Len has played very well IRT the minutes he's been given. Just look at his February Stats:

22.4 MPG -- 12.2 Pts / 9.2 TRB

Project that out to 33 MPG, and he's an 18/13 guy. And while typically, I'm not a huge fan of 'projection' of minutes, in this case, it works when you look at actual games like last night -- 22 / 16 on 34 minutes...or back on 26 Jan, he was 16 / 12 on 34 minutes.

And then, compare this season's per36, (which again, is fair since Len is avg'ing 20 MPG, not something like 10 or 12 MPG) to Gobert and Noel:

Len - 13.9 / 11.8
Noel - 13.4 / 10.0
Gobert - 11.0 / 11.4

Len is out-scoring AND out-rebounding those two, so I'm not sure why so many have been hating on Len this season; especially considering how putrid we've been as a team collectively. True, his TS% and eFG% are well below those two, so he's far from perfect, but he certainly isn't as far behind collectively as some fans would have you think.

[RunDogGun]

Len isn't bad, he is just inconsistent, as has been our whole team. Many of them could have a monster game, and follow it with a poor game. But a lot of that could be explained with taking on better teams, or team preparation. For example, Booker has been having a tougher time getting good shots, because the scouting report on him is more detailed. It was like Plumlee. He was virtually unknown what he could do, and once he had more success, the scouting report became more detailed, and he had a tougher time doing what he did before.

Speaking of Plumlee, he seemed to imply that without Bledsoe he wasn't getting the touches he was receiving. But now Bledsoe is too obsessed with his own points? Chandler couldn't jump very well early in this season, and he has no range, so it sure limits where he can get a pass. Plus he is our worst offender at doing moving screens, and is much slower than he used to be on the roll. Markieff received tons of touches, and early this season he had games where he was 6-17, 6-17, 7-22. It sure seemed like our guards were getting him the ball, no?

Oh well, I guess we will all find things to complain about. I like that Booker has been fighting through this time, and doesn't seem discouraged. Hopefully Len can find some consistency.

What I'm not shocked about, was us winning with our two biggest heart players (Tucker and Price) having good games, and many of our other guys did as well. We out rebounded the Grizz, which is great. We seem to play better when we are boarding well.

[Frank Lee]

Some how, and it seems rampant around here, any 'non coddling' comments get labeled as hate.

Do you really think people hate Len when they question his consistency ? If he will be a true starter and can stay healthy? Where is the hate when they point out Gobert may have been a better pick? Who here has demanded his trade ? Isn't that just normal 'fan' talk?

I see way more people who 'Hope' Len continues to get better.

Perhaps I am not aware of the newer definitions/uses for the word 'Hate' ... perhaps it is a convenient avenue for the 'I told ya so' s


As far as Len goes.... I was unable to watch the game last night...has the point guard play helped Len?... is he getting better feeds or at least consistent ones? There is no telling how a good passing PG may help Len and others for that matter....(whoops, did I just 'hate' on Bledsoe and Knight?)

[hollywood6964]

Frank, I used to post on this board (or rather, the espn board when it was around) a long time ago, in regards to the "hate"- Sometimes I'd question whether there were actually adults posting on these forums, or just childlike rabid fans, where the slightest criticism would start finger pointing and talk of someone being "negative", in an obvious attempt to shut them up; because only coddling, kid glove, silver lining and potential hope comments were welcome......I see things haven't changed much.

[saintEscaton]

Frank, I used to post on this board (or rather, the espn board when it was around) a long time ago, in regards to the "hate"- Sometimes I'd question whether there were actually adults posting on these forums, or just childlike rabid fans, where the slightest criticism would start finger pointing and talk of someone being "negative", in an obvious attempt to shut them up; because only coddling, kid glove, silver lining and potential hope comments were welcome......I see things haven't changed much.

Yup compared to other places like the BSotS purple kool aid comment section or the toxic cesspit that is the Suns subreddit RealGM is relatively more tolerant of dissenting opinions but still for the most part an echo chamber. A hug box self-help group for the ever faithful still in denial

[rsavaj]

Frank, I used to post on this board (or rather, the espn board when it was around) a long time ago, in regards to the "hate"- Sometimes I'd question whether there were actually adults posting on these forums, or just childlike rabid fans, where the slightest criticism would start finger pointing and talk of someone being "negative", in an obvious attempt to shut them up; because only coddling, kid glove, silver lining and potential hope comments were welcome......I see things haven't changed much.

Yup compared to other places like the BSotS purple kool aid comment section or the toxic cesspit that is the Suns subreddit RealGM is relatively more tolerant of dissenting opinions but still for the most part an echo chamber. A hug box self-help group for the ever faithful still in denial

lol the majority sentiment at BSOTS is pretty negative right now; if you think that place is drinking the kool-aid, then you're on a pretty extreme part of the fan spectrum

[NavLDO]

Some how, and it seems rampant around here, any 'non coddling' comments get labeled as hate.

Do you really think people hate Len when they question his consistency ? -- Where are these same questions for Noel's or Gobert's 'consistency'??

If he will be a true starter and can stay healthy? --Where is the concern for Gobert's health in these 'questioning' posts of Len?? You know, for the guy who's missed 17 games more than Len??

Where is the hate when they point out Gobert may have been a better pick? -- Because those same posters expect that McD should have picked Gobert, Nevermind that 20+ some-odd GMs also didn't pick Gobert. Nope, only McD deserves to be questioned for that. Who here has demanded his trade ? -- Don't know. I never mentioned anything about trading for Gobert. Did somebody mention that in this thread??? Or are you 'inventing' comments in your attempt to make a point??

Isn't that just normal 'fan' talk? -- No, normal 'fan' talk would be 'Man, Len had a rough game tonight'...rather than:

Len can get his shot off over anyone. Problem is that he has absolutely zero touch.

Len is just a tall guy, nothing more. He has no basketball skills.

Len's ceiling is basically a more athletic/better rim protecting Valanciunas without the nimble feet or touch around the basket.

Still love it when the faithful try to defend him and praise his "two-way upside" while writing off Noel as a one-dimensional guy who our medical staff didn't ok. Definitely not worth a Top 5 pick. Don't give me the "be patient he's a young big" excuse, there are better centers from the same draft class who are already impact contributors

Alex Len is so weak.

oh boy, len is so bad.

I see way more people who 'Hope' Len continues to get better. -- Yeah, I definitely saw those sentiments in the above comments...Yeah, sucks when the truth doesn't match up with what you think, huh...that was from one gameday thread, btw, so it's not like I had to dig in multiple threads. So, are you telling me those aren't 'hater-esque' comments, Frank??

Perhaps I am not aware of the newer definitions/uses for the word 'Hate' ... perhaps it is a convenient avenue for the 'I told ya so' s

As far as Len goes.... I was unable to watch the game last night...has the point guard play helped Len?... is he getting better feeds or at least consistent ones? There is no telling how a good passing PG may help Len and others for that matter....(whoops, did I just 'hate' on Bledsoe and Knight?) -- Whoops, did you what you just post match the sentiment of the above comments? Whoops, no it didn't, and thus why I wouldn't classify those as 'hater' comments, but nice try at deflection there, Frank...too bad it didn't work out for you as you had planned...so you can come off your 'everybody-thinks-everybody's-a-hater, when-they-are-just-providing-constructive-criticism' soapbox, because we all know better...why don't you take off those 'rose-colored-glasses' you like to put on everybody else, Frank...

[bwgood77]

Frank, I used to post on this board (or rather, the espn board when it was around) a long time ago, in regards to the "hate"- Sometimes I'd question whether there were actually adults posting on these forums, or just childlike rabid fans, where the slightest criticism would start finger pointing and talk of someone being "negative", in an obvious attempt to shut them up; because only coddling, kid glove, silver lining and potential hope comments were welcome......I see things haven't changed much.

Yup compared to other places like the BSotS purple kool aid comment section or the toxic cesspit that is the Suns subreddit RealGM is relatively more tolerant of dissenting opinions but still for the most part an echo chamber. A hug box self-help group for the ever faithful still in denial

lol the majority sentiment at BSOTS is pretty negative right now; if you think that place is drinking the kool-aid, then you're on a pretty extreme part of the fan spectrum

The majority here have been pretty negative too. I mean, I'm typically an optimist, at least to start the season, but am pretty down on the direction the team tried to take. I wanted the Knight trade to work out, but I've been pretty clear about how I am not terribly happy about a lot of things.

I mean there really isn't a thing to be happy about with this season except for the draft and that Markieff is gone.

[thamadkant]

Lol at BSOTS being positive.

90% are Booker jock riders.

Some would probably run over Archie if they see him on the parking lot, always judges him with against prime Kobe Bryant having a great night... like Goodiwn scoring 20 points under 50% would be scoffed at. Even though he is 21 and have shown drastic improvement from this season to previous seasons.

Some absolutely thrives on negativity and it has become terrible.



Reddit /r/NBA has been my go to forum for interesting topics and source of media.

[Frank Lee]

Some how, and it seems rampant around here, any 'non coddling' comments get labeled as hate.

Do you really think people hate Len when they question his consistency ? -- Where are these same questions for Noel's or Gobert's 'consistency'??

If he will be a true starter and can stay healthy? --Where is the concern for Gobert's health in these 'questioning' posts of Len?? You know, for the guy who's missed 17 games more than Len??

Where is the hate when they point out Gobert may have been a better pick? -- Because those same posters expect that McD should have picked Gobert, Nevermind that 20+ some-odd GMs also didn't pick Gobert. Nope, only McD deserves to be questioned for that. Who here has demanded his trade ? -- Don't know. I never mentioned anything about trading for Gobert. Did somebody mention that in this thread??? Or are you 'inventing' comments in your attempt to make a point??

Isn't that just normal 'fan' talk? -- No, normal 'fan' talk would be 'Man, Len had a rough game tonight'...rather than:

Len can get his shot off over anyone. Problem is that he has absolutely zero touch.

Len is just a tall guy, nothing more. He has no basketball skills.

Len's ceiling is basically a more athletic/better rim protecting Valanciunas without the nimble feet or touch around the basket.

Still love it when the faithful try to defend him and praise his "two-way upside" while writing off Noel as a one-dimensional guy who our medical staff didn't ok. Definitely not worth a Top 5 pick. Don't give me the "be patient he's a young big" excuse, there are better centers from the same draft class who are already impact contributors

Alex Len is so weak.

oh boy, len is so bad.

I see way more people who 'Hope' Len continues to get better. -- Yeah, I definitely saw those sentiments in the above comments...Yeah, sucks when the truth doesn't match up with what you think, huh...that was from one gameday thread, btw, so it's not like I had to dig in multiple threads. So, are you telling me those aren't 'hater-esque' comments, Frank??

Perhaps I am not aware of the newer definitions/uses for the word 'Hate' ... perhaps it is a convenient avenue for the 'I told ya so' s

As far as Len goes.... I was unable to watch the game last night...has the point guard play helped Len?... is he getting better feeds or at least consistent ones? There is no telling how a good passing PG may help Len and others for that matter....(whoops, did I just 'hate' on Bledsoe and Knight?) -- Whoops, did you what you just post match the sentiment of the above comments? Whoops, no it didn't, and thus why I wouldn't classify those as 'hater' comments, but nice try at deflection there, Frank...too bad it didn't work out for you as you had planned...so you can come off your 'everybody-thinks-everybody's-a-hater, when-they-are-just-providing-constructive-criticism' soapbox, because we all know better...why don't you take off those 'rose-colored-glasses' you like to put on everybody else, Frank...

Is this trolling or.... stalking? Could it be another form of hate ? Take a deep breath dude.

[LukasBMW]

Well... ****.

This loss really puts 3rd place the best possible finish for us. No way we catch the Lakers now.

[Frank Lee]

Dammit LEN ! F-d up again.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I get frustrated with Len in most games, but he's 21, 7 foot and will be better than Chandler in 3 years.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Some how, and it seems rampant around here, any 'non coddling' comments get labeled as hate.

Do you really think people hate Len when they question his consistency ? -- Where are these same questions for Noel's or Gobert's 'consistency'??

If he will be a true starter and can stay healthy? --Where is the concern for Gobert's health in these 'questioning' posts of Len?? You know, for the guy who's missed 17 games more than Len??

Where is the hate when they point out Gobert may have been a better pick? -- Because those same posters expect that McD should have picked Gobert, Nevermind that 20+ some-odd GMs also didn't pick Gobert. Nope, only McD deserves to be questioned for that. Who here has demanded his trade ? -- Don't know. I never mentioned anything about trading for Gobert. Did somebody mention that in this thread??? Or are you 'inventing' comments in your attempt to make a point??

Isn't that just normal 'fan' talk? -- No, normal 'fan' talk would be 'Man, Len had a rough game tonight'...rather than:

I see way more people who 'Hope' Len continues to get better. -- Yeah, I definitely saw those sentiments in the above comments...Yeah, sucks when the truth doesn't match up with what you think, huh...that was from one gameday thread, btw, so it's not like I had to dig in multiple threads. So, are you telling me those aren't 'hater-esque' comments, Frank??

Perhaps I am not aware of the newer definitions/uses for the word 'Hate' ... perhaps it is a convenient avenue for the 'I told ya so' s

As far as Len goes.... I was unable to watch the game last night...has the point guard play helped Len?... is he getting better feeds or at least consistent ones? There is no telling how a good passing PG may help Len and others for that matter....(whoops, did I just 'hate' on Bledsoe and Knight?) -- Whoops, did you what you just post match the sentiment of the above comments? Whoops, no it didn't, and thus why I wouldn't classify those as 'hater' comments, but nice try at deflection there, Frank...too bad it didn't work out for you as you had planned...so you can come off your 'everybody-thinks-everybody's-a-hater, when-they-are-just-providing-constructive-criticism' soapbox, because we all know better...why don't you take off those 'rose-colored-glasses' you like to put on everybody else, Frank...

Is this trolling or.... stalking? Could it be another form of hate ? Take a deep breath dude.

OK, breath taken...yep, still the same outcome. You post a snarky, baiting, trolling 'hater' post, usually about McD, I provide multiple examples of how it IS a hater post; you reply with a snarky 'everyone, look over here at this shiny object' response, that doesn't address the issue, only the poster, thinking, that somehow, proves you right??

Ohhh-Kaaayy...and I'm the troller or stalker, when you post 'baiting' responses....

Len receives multiple 'negative' posts/insults, such as just last night...

Len will be lucky if he ever manages to put it together to become even a borderline serviceable starter. Comparing him to Gobert is an insult, he's not even in the same stratosphere.

Yep, I see that "'Hope' Len continues to get better."-esque sentiment in the above quote. Which was quickly followed up with you attempting to be snarky in your post of 'Damn Hater'.

So tell me Frank, with a straight face, that that is not a 'hater' response...

[JMac1]

Where's Warren??

OMG...wtf?!! I am tired right now. With TJ, now I know I am not crazy. I don't think it is that bad.

I also think we can get a rotation player with the wiz pick. I have high hopes for bogdan too.

Forgot about him too. smh.

We have a lot of young talent, definitely not as bad as our record. A lot of assets.

[Midnight_Suns]

-- No, normal 'fan' talk would be 'Man, Len had a rough game tonight'...rather than:

Len can get his shot off over anyone. Problem is that he has zero touch.

Since you want to use my post to make a point, allow me to retort.

I absolutely am not a "normal fan". I obsess over this team and thus dissect our players' skill sets on a game to game basis. I'm as much of a fan now as I have been through the good and bad years over the past decade. I love Alex Len and have been ecstatic over his recent play, but to suggest that I, or any other fan, can't discuss the holes in his game absurd. Is that not what forums like this are for? Or are we only allowed to circle-jerk about the good while ignoring the bad?