Would the Bulls 'reset' and trade Jimmy Butler this offseason ? What would Celtics need to give you?

[robbie84]

Any Celtics contracts this summer that are unguaranteed that we could waive for cap space?????


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Amir Johnson ($12 Million)
Jonas Jerebko ($5 million)

are both team options, so I'm not sure if you can S+T for them this offseason . You may be able to trade them immediately after both teams are knocked out of the playoffs if I remember correctly.

[Dominator83]

Celtics poster claims this was more than imagination at the deadline, but no idea of his credentials. Knowing what we know about how the Bulls operate and Jimmy's reported friction with the team, it wouldn't shock me.

Correct
Jimmy Butler was the target. A friend works in the front office, the deal agreed to was Jimmy Butler for Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Nets ’16 Pick. Agreed to by Celtics and Bulls, but Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf vetoed the trade. The Celtics will try again for Butler in the offseason.

by greenteam17

Man, unless that pick turned into Ben Simmons that would be a awful trade for the Bulls.

Now if it's true that JR vetoed that trade, I'm starting to wonder if Gar really is on the outs? Which would make sense why the only trade gar was able or allowed to make was a cost cutting one.

I don't know how much stock I put into this. Normally JR let's his GMs GM as long as it's within budget. Plus if this really happened, you would think there would be a lot more smoke than just a guy on the RealGM Celtics board. This would have been mentioned by someone from ESPN, NBATV, beat writers, Woj, etc

[Dajody10]

The top Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart, though I would prefer moving Butler west instead of keeping him in the east. I suspect we could get a better haul from Minnesota, which needs a veteran and has tons of young players and their lottery pick this year to send the Bulls.

Either way, moving Rose (100% needed this summer) and Butler should both be on the table since neither are good fits in Hoibergs system (neither are good shooters) and Butler is already pushing back too much. Cash in now and make this a quick rebuild, would get the Bulls a ton of picks, young players and oodles of cap space to sign young players who fit the system moving forward.

[coldfish]

The top Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart, though I would prefer moving Butler west instead of keeping him in the east. I suspect we could get a better haul from Minnesota, which needs a veteran and has tons of young players and their lottery pick this year to send the Bulls.

Either way, moving Rose (100% needed this summer) and Butler should both be on the table since neither are good fits in Hoibergs system (neither are good shooters) and Butler is already pushing back too much. Cash in now and make this a quick rebuild, would get the Bulls a ton of picks, young players and oodles of cap space to sign young players who fit the system moving forward.

I won't disagree with any of that.

However, if I owned the Bulls I would have to sit down and seriously think if I want to trade away good players just so that I can build around a possibly mediocre or worse coach.

Trading Jimmy to Boston is selling high and you can get a ton for him. I am just concerned that the people who will be doing the rebuilding aren't particularly competent and we might just end up with another version of the 00-03 Bulls. Draft picks are nice if you are good at drafting and have a team concept you are going for. If not, then you might just be one of the countless teams who have ended up on the tank treadmill for years at a time.

[Dajody10]

The top Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart, though I would prefer moving Butler west instead of keeping him in the east. I suspect we could get a better haul from Minnesota, which needs a veteran and has tons of young players and their lottery pick this year to send the Bulls.

Either way, moving Rose (100% needed this summer) and Butler should both be on the table since neither are good fits in Hoibergs system (neither are good shooters) and Butler is already pushing back too much. Cash in now and make this a quick rebuild, would get the Bulls a ton of picks, young players and oodles of cap space to sign young players who fit the system moving forward.

I won't disagree with any of that.

However, if I owned the Bulls I would have to sit down and seriously think if I want to trade away good players just so that I can build around a possibly mediocre or worse coach.

Trading Jimmy to Boston is selling high and you can get a ton for him. I am just concerned that the people who will be doing the rebuilding aren't particularly competent and we might just end up with another version of the 00-03 Bulls. Draft picks are nice if you are good at drafting and have a team concept you are going for. If not, then you might just be one of the countless teams who have ended up on the tank treadmill for years at a time.

I can't argue with you on that, and nothing would make me happier than Reinsdorf firing both Foreman and Paxson, but deep down we all know it ain't happening. I am not as sour on Hoiberg, he walked into a situation with accomplished vets who had their own personal agendas, the Rose situation is impossible to coach around, the underlying tension between Rose and Butler is obvious, and Gasol is basically uncoachable at this point of his career. Give Hoiberg a young team like Boston and I am sure he would be fine - the guy didn't forget how to coach overnight, he's in a very bad position thanks to his good old fat friend Gar Foreman.

[Jimako10]

Well if JR is vetoing Gar, it's possible that Gar's time might be up and they don't want him making any major moves. At least that's what I'm hoping.

Is it possible they hire Matt Lloyd in the offseason, trade Butler for a massive haul, and then let Lloyd go wild with the draft?

[DASMACKDOWN]

2016 Brooklyn pick unprotected (currently#4)
2016 Dallas pick
2016 Celtics pick
2018 Brooklyn pick unprotected
Avery Bradley
Amir Johnson (Salary)

for Jimmy Butler+ filler.

Fire away guys...

No fire necessary. I take that deal without hesitation. I'm pro-rebuilding and this package gives the Bulls the necessary tools to do just that, and more. Now, I love Jimmy Butler and would prefer to have him around, but I'm also a realist. He's going to be 27 this year, and when the guys acquired from these draft picks will be ready, he'll more than likely be in his early 30's.

So yes. Absolutely I do this, especially if Avery Bradley can be flipped for someone young (which he can, given his contract).

How did Jimmy get old all of a sudden though? He is 26.

I mean its no different than Portland who decided to move out the old guys and keep their youngest best asset in Lillard. Is Portland wasting Lillards prime him being 25 going 26 in July?

I think people are always under the impression you have to tear everything all the way down to improve. You don't.

Jimmy, McDermot, NIko, Portis, possibly Moore, and fill the rest with rookies and a few high tier free agents, can turn this around rather quickly in my opinion.

[R3AL1TY]

Rather keep Jimmy. Trading for draft picks and a role player like Bradley may even set the team back further where that playoff picture may be gone for 5 years or more. If the Bulls trade Jimmy, I rather it be for a borderline all-star like Gallo, Knight, or McCollum.

[BullsGate]

Reset, Retool or rebuild are pointless if Gar Forman and John Paxson still running the show. You will have the same results. Bulls will forever be mediocre under those two.

[2xtreme]

I come in peace from the Celtics board. (Oxymoron? lol).
In all seriousness, the Celtics are probably coveting Jimmy Butler. Can score, isn't afraid to take the big shot, and most importantly to Brad Stevens, can guard multiple positions.

So questions:
-would the Bulls ever consider resetting by moving Butler/Pau/Rose this offseason?
-would the Celtics be able to pry him away in such a scenario this offseason?
-if trading him is possible, what would you need from us?

From our end, our goal is obviously to put Butler at SG next to Crowder and Isaiah Thomas and go from there. This means that Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart would be available-with some of our picks.
So to get the ball rolling I'd propose:

2016 Brooklyn pick unprotected (currently#4)
2016 Dallas pick
2016 Celtics pick
2018 Brooklyn pick unprotected
Avery Bradley
Amir Johnson (Salary)

for Jimmy Butler+ filler.

Fire away guys...

Why would you guys give Bradley in a trade? You should look to add to the that you already have...

For me Bradley + Smart + all of the brooklyn picks (2016, 2017 right to swap and 2018 with no protections) for Butler and fillers needed by both teams to make the salaries work would be a good base for a deal.

[ATRAIN53]

No.

Bulls are not trading a 26 yr old 2 time All Star who is arguably the best defender in the league and jersey is now in the top ten of sales.

That's exactly what you hope one of those top picks turn into. This is why we maxed this kid out.

[pb-ceo]

the bulls are building around jimmy. but the other guard is available.

[TheStig]

2016 Brooklyn pick unprotected (currently#4)
2016 Dallas pick
2016 Celtics pick
2018 Brooklyn pick unprotected
Avery Bradley
Amir Johnson (Salary)

for Jimmy Butler+ filler.

Fire away guys...

No fire necessary. I take that deal without hesitation. I'm pro-rebuilding and this package gives the Bulls the necessary tools to do just that, and more. Now, I love Jimmy Butler and would prefer to have him around, but I'm also a realist. He's going to be 27 this year, and when the guys acquired from these draft picks will be ready, he'll more than likely be in his early 30's.

So yes. Absolutely I do this, especially if Avery Bradley can be flipped for someone young (which he can, given his contract).

How did Jimmy get old all of a sudden though? He is 26.

I mean its no different than Portland who decided to move out the old guys and keep their youngest best asset in Lillard. Is Portland wasting Lillards prime him being 25 going 26 in July?

I think people are always under the impression you have to tear everything all the way down to improve. You don't.

Jimmy, McDermot, NIko, Portis, possibly Moore, and fill the rest with rookies and a few high tier free agents, can turn this around rather quickly in my opinion.

See I don't see that core competing for anything other than a 4-8 seed. Likely toward the bottom than the top of that range. And that's largely on the back of Jimmy being a top tier player. We just aren't getting any high tier FA's. They simply aren't coming here. The best we will luck into is some good role players. Which would help prop us into that 4-8 seed.

None of Doug, Niko Portis or More have shown they're starters on a contending team.

I'm not saying blow it up but the conservative route won't get us anywhere. Why would a high tier FA come here when contending teams or major markets will all have cap space? I would have to think about trading Jimmy for a huge celtics offer. Something like Smart, both Brooklyn pics and Memphis pick. Then you tank and see if any of the young guys emerge and add in prospects from all the good lotto picks you'd get. Again, its something you have to think about.

[ImSlower]

I like the idea, even though Butler has been a favorite since he came up.

Unfortunately, the Bulls still would have a massive problem, in that JR, the FO, our coach, our PG, and our fans all seem to have a different vision of what is needed on the court. A big second move would be needed - if we snagged a higher than 4 pick, perhaps move Rose as well. I'd be shocked if Reinsdorf or the fans as a whole (not just we RealGM types) would take to such a total reworking.

I am in the camp that sees this team as a dead end without a major move. I could get behind a major overhaul like this, but I don't think it's an option for the check-writer, nor most of his revenue streams.

[Wingy]

The only way I'd consider trading Butler was if we're getting the first pick. Otherwise, I don't see the point of such a risk.

Agreed. I'd guess you got a lot of and 1s here.

That is a really tempting package though. What tips the scale for me is Jimmy being signed on a long term deal under the old economic structure.

As the weird Bulls fan who likes the Cs, it's exciting to see all their options. Should have a decent distraction if the Bulls keep spiraling downward as I think they will. Unfortunately my passion for the C's is about 5% of the Bulls.

[DuckIII]

A lot if it is about Hoiberg and Jimmy. If Jimmy is basically refusing to play the way Hoiberg wants the offense to run, and the two of them can't salvage the relationship, then absolutely without question I would do this deal.

[TheStig]

A lot if it is about Hoiberg and Jimmy. If Jimmy is basically refusing to play the way Hoiberg wants the offense to run, and the two of them can't salvage the relationship, then absolutely without question I would do this deal.

If the problem is that the star doesn't want to play Hoiball. Then I trade Hoiball. It's easier to get an underachieving coach then it is to get a top 15 player

I don't think anyone is all that impressed with Hoiberg and it's not like Jimmy was causing problems under Thibs.

[Chi town]

Celtics poster claims this was more than imagination at the deadline, but no idea of his credentials. Knowing what we know about how the Bulls operate and Jimmy's reported friction with the team, it wouldn't shock me.

Correct
Jimmy Butler was the target. A friend works in the front office, the deal agreed to was Jimmy Butler for Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, and Nets ’16 Pick. Agreed to by Celtics and Bulls, but Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf vetoed the trade. The Celtics will try again for Butler in the offseason.

by greenteam17

Sound about right. Singe said there was a trade in place but the timing was off. Probably referencing the Bulls having cold feet due to not knowing the pick.

1. Crowder is HIGH VALUE in this CBA. He is what Jimmy was... Before going Hollywood. Gritty, tough, team player, perfect guy at SF w his 3 ball and D.

2. Smart is a GarPax hustle and heart player as well. If he develops a 3 ball he could be a great combo off the bench.

3. The pick... I'm not high on Ben Simmons. I love Kris Dunn though. He is your Rose replacement. Smart is your starter until he's ready. The value itself of this pick especially if #1 is enough.

4. Jimmy is on the outs. Think of that... GarPax agreed to this trade. Obviously we can take this as gospel truth.

5. Bulls know Gasol is gone as evidenced by their near trade at deadline except Kings wouldn't budge on pick protection.

6. GarPax have to know they are going FULL REBUILD and Rose will be gone soon.

7. A trade like this nets you 2 starters and another rotation player.

This summer I think we will see what most of us have been pining for. Hoiball is coming.

... Would we be creating a monster in BOS with this trade. Especially w Stevens as coach?

[ATRAIN53]

Trade Butler and keep Hoiberg if they can't get along?

NBA coaches are a dime a dozen. Hoiberg has won squat, this is not Tom Izzo.

26 yr old, 2 way players that make the All Star team are once a decade guys you LUCK into.
We just fired a better coach than Hoiberg. Our assistants are probably better than Hoiberg.

[truth18]

2016 Brooklyn pick unprotected (currently#4)
2016 Dallas pick
2016 Celtics pick
2018 Brooklyn pick unprotected
Avery Bradley
Amir Johnson (Salary)

for Jimmy Butler+ filler.

intriguing

Bowie, man. Devastating stuff. Had some liquid stuck on my eyes the night he left earth.

Interesting to get Chicago fans' take on this stuff. Thanks guys.