Would the Bulls 'reset' and trade Jimmy Butler this offseason ? What would Celtics need to give you?

[d boy gentleman]

If that is a what's being offered, I'd personally pack Jimmy's bags and wish him well in Boston.

[Shill]

You'd think that you'd either hire a coach who fits the players already on the team, or trade for players who do fit the system. But that's why you're a keyboard warrior and GarPax get paid the big bucks. So you don't HAVE to think. Or watch. Or care anymore.

[TheStig]

Last year was better than this year but there was a year with 10 games of Rose and Deng traded about 30 games into the year and they still had a better record with DJ leading the team in scoring. So I think this team has had years where they have done more with less.

Thibs is a better coach than Fred at this point, but I just disagree that Fred is already a miserable failure who can't improve, especially if he gets more guys that fit his system.

I'm not saying that Fred can't improve. Infact, I think he can and will. And I hope he becomes very good. But for this season, he has failed. That's all I'm saying.

[Hokie]

The Bulls aren't trading Butler for anything short of a superstar in return (like Cleveland insists on with Love). Fun idea to talk about, but realistically, it would never happen.

The Bulls aren't going to go through a rebuild anytime soon. They're going to give it a go with Rose/Butler one more time next season and go from there. Rose may or may not be back after next season, but Butler is going nowhere.

[dice]

I've been saying this since last season, but at some point Jimmy Butler is going to go down the path of Wade. Yeah, overall he will be a good player and remain so, but he will continue to miss games consistently and more frequently, just based on how physical and hard he plays every time he is on the floor

wade's games/minutes started to decline at age 30 (after 24k+ minutes logged in his 20s). and only after lebron left (last year at age 33) did his game take a hard dip

jimmy is 26 and has played under 11k minutes in this league. and wade got beat up more, averaging 10.7 FTA per game at his peak, vs. 7.7 for jimmy this year (his career high)

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I might do the deal that JR reportedly vetoed - Jimmy for Crowder, Smart, and the Nets pick. If it's #1, you could let go Pau and Noah go, have the Nets pick, the Kings pick(if we get it), and our own pick, and still have 20M in cap room to play with, and younger roster that matches Hoiball better.

C - Taj, Portis
PF - Simmons, Mirotic
SF - Crowder, McDermott, MDJ
SG - D.Valentine, B.Hield, Snell
PG - Rose, Smart
+20M in cap space

That's one scenario.

Maybe see if you can move MDJ for a 2nd too. And then the following year Rose comes off the books so you can get more space then too, if that's the decision you want to make(not sure I would want to do that, but it's an option).

If you're pro-rebuild, I think it's a great deal.

That's the deal that JR reportedly turned down. I don't think the deal in the OP would ever get offered.

[nomorezorro]

jimmy butler is literally the only sure thing asset on the bulls roster

if you trade him to rebuild and then whiff on the first high pick or two...you are entering dangerous, dangerous territory

and if you tear down your roster right when a bunch of cap space opens up, good luck luring anyone here via free agency for a few years

[nomorezorro]

like i don't understand why keeping butler, punting on next year and then going all in on 2017 free agency wouldn't be vastly preferable to this trade

[dice]

jimmy butler is literally the only sure thing asset on the bulls roster

if you trade him to rebuild and then whiff on the first high pick or two...you are entering dangerous, dangerous territory

wouldn't that just mean more high picks?

[TheGOATRises007]

I'd rather get a star in return for Butler vs draft picks. Too much risk on the draft pick panning out well. Nothing is a sure thing.

Edit: If we were to trade Butler. Personally, I'd keep him.

[logical_art]

It's very unlikely that Butler will be the best player on a championship team. So in trading him you have to determine whether his value is higher in attracting a better player than him via FA if he stays or in drafting a better player than him with a pic acquired by trading him.

I think the former is more likely at this point, but I haven't paid attention to superstars who are free agents soon and their relationship with Butler.

[MBPKOGZ]

This board confuses me. So many people were against the Oladipo + Vucevic + draft pick train but are ready to hop on the Crowder (worse than Vucevic / worse offense w/ slightly better defense) + Smart (worse than Oladipo / a much more unathletic Westbrook) + draft pick train.

If the front office was underselling Jimmy then how are they not doing it now?

It's almost as if people parrot the first opinion expressed on a thread and in this particular case it was the idea that this trade is good...

[chitowndish]

I'm not convinced we should go full rebuild but I guess I don't know what's been going on behind the scenes, seems like things are pretty bad between Hoiberg and Butler if they are considering a move, sure seems like there is a lot of smoke there.

If we don't change anything in the FO I hope we stay away from draft picks and go for a star. This FO just hasn't been good at drafting since Lloyd left and if we blow one of those pics we are in a horrible place. Also this FO has proven that they can't consolidate talent so a 4 quarter for a dollar trade likely kills us too. We're pretty good at picking up quarter type players in FA anyway. So unless something changes drastically in the FO I think we'd have to look for another star on the outs.

Of course if we can clean house in the FO and are set on moving ButleI do think the draft pick full rebuild young Hoiball team is probably the way to go, they really don't have much of a choice with Hoiball at least with his contract, no way he goes anywhere regardless of how he performs. Maybe that is part of why Boston and Chicago were rumored to restart talks after the offseason, they want the next GM to make probably the most important move of the rebuild if we go that route. I guess overall I hope they can work this crap out with Butler and we clean house in the FO.


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[WookieOnRitalin]

The problem has been and will always be Derrick Rose as a player does not fit what this team needs. If it were me, I try to assemble a team that could fit to Jimmy's strengths rather than Rose's.

I also think Hoiberg does not have a full command of this roster, the NBA, and will ultimately be seen as a poor hire. If I eat crow on that one, then so be it.

The Bulls have a lot of thinking to do. There is plenty of talent on the roster, but clearly what has been assembled at current is not going to work. You do have to look towards the future. To me, this means guys like Noah, Rose, and Gibson need to be moved for value or have their cap space used for plugging holes.

At that point, you are still left with plenty, plus some picks.

Mirotic is not done.
Butler is a better investment.
McDermott can play.
Portis can contribute.

I do not know what Pau will do, so I cannot factor him into the equation.

I also believe that 2016-17 season will be a waste. I would not invest any of the cap space into this class of free agents unless the Bulls could somehow work out a trade to fill the cap space with a player that could be an impact player right away (which is difficult).

[FlatearthZorro]

Some one already wrote it, but I believe some guys that really have "connections" to the C's fron office, said the real target of the C's wasn't Okafor, it was Butler and the proposed package was Smart/BKN 16/Dallas16/Crowder for Butler, which imo is a pretty darn decent deal. Probably u guys will disagree.

[samwana]

Some one already wrote it, but I believe some guys that really have "connections" to the C's fron office, said the real target of the C's wasn't Okafor, it was Butler and the proposed package was Smart/BKN 16/Dallas16/Crowder for Butler, which imo is a pretty darn decent deal. Probably u guys will disagree.

I'd do that deal. I hope it is still available at the draft and we have a new FO that can draft and build a team. Because I have zero confidence left in the current one.

[Chi town]

The team absolutely looks listless. I'm just saying the effort level didn't backslide this season. It started last year for whatever reason.

Well yeah, I think that naturally happens when the FO undermines the coach. But regardless, they still mainly bought in and gave a damn when it counted. I just don't see that from this team.

But Fred came hyped up and fully backed and their buy in and intesnity fell off the cliff. That's why he's a flop.

Disagree. This team has the exact same habit of beating the contenders, then laying an egg against the bottom-feeders.

The biggest difference is injuries. Noah is done for the year, Niko has missed a ton, Rose had the mask and double vision for a long time, and Jimmy had the knee injury.

+1. We all knew this year was a wash and ultimately a year of transition into Hoiball.

[Chi town]

The Bulls aren't trading Butler for anything short of a superstar in return (like Cleveland insists on with Love). Fun idea to talk about, but realistically, it would never happen.

The Bulls aren't going to go through a rebuild anytime soon. They're going to give it a go with Rose/Butler one more time next season and go from there. Rose may or may not be back after next season, but Butler is going nowhere.

Supposedly they did... But Jerry vetoed. Prob due to playoff profits. Had they done it and with all the injuries we miss the playoffs this year but get a higher pick.

People don't understand the VALUE of Jae Crowder. 7M per year for the next 4 seasons while performing like a 20M per year player in the new cap. It's Jae Crowder and your defensive C in FA for (14M). Smart immediately steps in and becomes a great backup PG.

Biggest thing about this trade is the type of character and winning attitudes we get in Smart and Crowder. This package is better than the ORL package too because we get a top pick.

I think The pick goes top 2 and the Celts won't offer the package again.

[ChiCityHoops34]

like i don't understand why keeping butler, punting on next year and then going all in on 2017 free agency wouldn't be vastly preferable to this trade

Because this front office has literally shown nothing for me to feel like they can successfully land a superstar free agent.

[MrSparkle]

This board confuses me. So many people were against the Oladipo + Vucevic + draft pick train but are ready to hop on the Crowder (worse than Vucevic / worse offense w/ slightly better defense) + Smart (worse than Oladipo / a much more unathletic Westbrook) + draft pick train.

If the front office was underselling Jimmy then how are they not doing it now?

It's almost as if people parrot the first opinion expressed on a thread and in this particular case it was the idea that this trade is good...

Well the Magic offer scared me because:

1. Vuc is one of the worst-rated defensive centers in the league (far-worse statistically than Pau) and on a big long-term contract. Everyone's whining about Pau ruining this team's defensive identity, yet they want to weaken the position for the next 3 years with a trade that also sends out our best defender.

2. Oladipo is good, I like him... But he's like a shorter, less intimidating, less established version of Jimmy. But here's the kicker-- he's up for an extension in the bloated cap, and being a #2 pick and a relatively good player, he's gonna be paid $20+ a year... And it makes no sense in the long-term to do that when you have a better player (Jimmy) locked in at less.

3. The pick(s) would've been in the middle of the 1st rd., especially once Jimmy got healthy and started winning games for them. They'd become a playoff team, without a doubt.

Boston's BRK pick(s) and cheap-salary starters (Crowder or Bradley) appeal much more from a "soft"-rebuild POV. The unprotected Nets pick could very well be Simmons or Ingram, guys with star-potential and 4-years to make it work. Not in love with "going younger", but it'd be a whole lot better than seeing GarPax try to do something with a core of Oladipo/Vuc/McDermott/Niko.