The Giannis Antetokounmpo Thread

[bondom34]

Also Bondom, you have no idea how badly I want Cam on this Bucks team Dude would be soooo freaking good with our core.

Damn I'd be ready to give him up, Donovan hasn't played him since the great Randy Foye joined. Honestly I like Cam too much to see him benched for this trash.

[The-Power]

Wow. That was something. 18/17/11 on 12 shots, that's a game.

FTA end a scoring possession, the '... on X shots' has to stop being used in the media unless they are talking about TSA which they don't do. His TS% was at 53.4 which about league average.

Anyhow, his FT% has been abysmal in the last four games (45.8% on 6.0 FTA) but other than that he's been fabulous. I loved Giannis since he entered the league and dedicated him some long posts. The roster compilation has been extremely flawed and it has been blatantly obvious that Carter-Williams and Monroe are poor fits on that team. Individually, they occupy spaces who should be free for Giannis or Parker and they demand the ball way too much for the outcome they produce. In general, especially Monoe prefers to play a slower offense while Giannis' strong suit has always been the transition game. You can't expect Giannis to thrive on a team that ranks at the bottom in terms of pace. The last four games they increased the pace and it already pays dividends. I love how they finally use Giannis and I'm so glad he produces so the coaches can stick to the strategy and Giannis can grow into his new role.

This off-season is going to determine in which direction the Bucks are heading to. The core of Middleton/Parker/Giannis look very promising, but they need to find some key pieces who aren't a dime a dozen. They need a capable ball handler who is a good shooter and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective and focused and they need another big man who has some range but who can also hold his own in the paint defensively. The Bucks are a poor defensive team on the perimeter and as I've stated before, I feel like this has a lot to do with the poor interior defense due to someone like Monroe which leads to more help inside and more space around the perimeter. It's not the only reason, as Giannis himself still has to learn when he should provide help and when this does more harm than good but I really don't see a reason why they normally shouldn't be ranked a lot higher in this regard (Middleton is a great defender, Giannis has a lot of potential due to his combination of length and agility, MCW whenever he plays can be a good perimeter defender although he's not consistently there yet).

[Prez]

Was curious, looked up his stat line of 18+/17+/11+ with 4+ steals, 2+ blocks...Giannis is the only to do it.

I know, super arbitrary line, but still lowkey rare stat line for the Freak.

[tsherkin]

Was curious, looked up his stat line of 18+/17+/11+ with 4+ steals, 2+ blocks...Giannis is the only to do it.

I know, super arbitrary line, but still lowkey rare stat line for the Freak.

It's like a Magic Johnson line, but with tons of steals and blocks. Giannis seems to have a good head for moving without the ball, and a good sense of when to attack the rim, which is nice. I think to me the thing which was most pleasant, though, was actually the team passing Milwaukee was doing. Giannis had a fine night, but the whole squad seemed to be head-up on all of their defensive rebounds and looking to break out.

[E-Balla]

Was curious, looked up his stat line of 18+/17+/11+ with 4+ steals, 2+ blocks...Giannis is the only to do it.

I know, super arbitrary line, but still lowkey rare stat line for the Freak.

It's like a Magic Johnson line, but with tons of steals and blocks. Giannis seems to have a good head for moving without the ball, and a good sense of when to attack the rim, which is nice. I think to me the thing which was most pleasant, though, was actually the team passing Milwaukee was doing. Giannis had a fine night, but the whole squad seemed to be head-up on all of their defensive rebounds and looking to break out.

I mentioned it in another thread but since Monroe hit the bench Giannis is averaging 17/11/6, Parker 20/8/3, and Middleton 22/4/5. Doesn't even seem to be all that flukey either considering many people noticed how bad that starting 5 looked together.

[tsherkin]

I mentioned it in another thread but since Monroe hit the bench Giannis is averaging 17/11/6, Parker 20/8/3, and Middleton 22/4/5. Doesn't even seem to be all that flukey either considering many people noticed how bad that starting 5 looked together.

Monroe is also a problem because he's a crud defender at perhaps the most critical defensive position. And of course, he doesn't have any kind of flexibility because his range is weak. Moving him to the bench lets him feast on bench competition while opening up the floor for Parker and Giannis. Seems like a quite promising trio.

[AceofSpades69]

He has the potential to become something great. Same all around type of talent I saw in Grant Hill when he first got in the league. Not technicaly as sound (probably will never be) but nonetheless a truly talented player with very rare traits.
Can definetly become a household name if wisely advised and injury free.

[Dr Spaceman]

I mentioned it in another thread but since Monroe hit the bench Giannis is averaging 17/11/6, Parker 20/8/3, and Middleton 22/4/5. Doesn't even seem to be all that flukey either considering many people noticed how bad that starting 5 looked together.

Monroe is also a problem because he's a crud defender at perhaps the most critical defensive position. And of course, he doesn't have any kind of flexibility because his range is weak. Moving him to the bench lets him feast on bench competition while opening up the floor for Parker and Giannis. Seems like a quite promising trio.

Agreed. They've got quite a promising young core even if they're a year behind where we thought they'd be (totally fine with how young they are and Parker coming off an ACL!) Good future in MIL.

I'm less confident, though, about the FO direction and the Monroe benching only highlights it all the more.

[Prez]

Was curious, looked up his stat line of 18+/17+/11+ with 4+ steals, 2+ blocks...Giannis is the only to do it.

I know, super arbitrary line, but still lowkey rare stat line for the Freak.

It's like a Magic Johnson line, but with tons of steals and blocks. Giannis seems to have a good head for moving without the ball, and a good sense of when to attack the rim, which is nice. I think to me the thing which was most pleasant, though, was actually the team passing Milwaukee was doing. Giannis had a fine night, but the whole squad seemed to be head-up on all of their defensive rebounds and looking to break out.

This is pretty much exactly what Kidd was talking about after the Lakers game when we first tried out PG Giannis. How Giannis passing was infectious to the team and how everyone just feeds off that as well as his intensity on defense and rebounding. He and Jabari set the tone. It's hard to explain but it makes a lot of sense when you watch, every time Giannis is on the court doing his thing everyone seems to play with a different energy.

I guess it's to be expected when you go from Michael Carter Williams and Jerryd "Imma get mine" Bayless as your point guards to an actually talented playmaker running the show

[HeartBreakKid]

Do you guys think John Henson will eventually become the starting five?

[Magic Giannison]

Thats my boy.

[H2tObes]

Do you guys think John Henson will eventually become the starting five?

Nope, he is a career backup imo. He has had 4 years to claim the starter position but still hasn't done it. He can be a short term starter for us but he is simply too much of a detriment some nights to give starter minutes

[breakchains]

I'd disagree with Tobes. I think there's a pretty good chance that Henson is the opening day starter in 2016.

[tsherkin]

I'd disagree with Tobes. I think there's a pretty good chance that Henson is the opening day starter in 2016.

Might be better to pull a Whiteside with him and leave him as a 25-28 mpg bench guy. He needs to unscrew himself as a rebounder, where he's declined every year, but with his ability to shoot a high FG% on low volume and his shot-blocking, he could probably just keep thriving in a constrained role off of the pine while they seek a real starter to cover the gap.

[Texas Chuck]

Agreed. They've got quite a promising young core even if they're a year behind where we thought they'd be (totally fine with how young they are and Parker coming off an ACL!) Good future in MIL.

I'm less confident, though, about the FO direction and the Monroe benching only highlights it all the more.

Understand that I'm a huge team guy and spend more of time evaluating teams than individuals.

But the Bucks completely messed up this off-season. I'll give them a pass on Monroe because I think they believed between Kidd and some of their talented wing defenders that they could cover him defensively. Tho signing him and giving Henson a big extension never made any sense because you can't play them together.

But they didn't have to just give Dudley and Zaza away the way they did. Not only were those guys very important pieces on the court they are the exact kind of guys you want on the roster when things start going south the way they did. And much like Utah, they kinda wasted a year not seriously addressing the PG position. It's cute to play Giannis at PG at times, but this isn't a good strategy really.


And while he doesn't have the high draft status of Parker or the sexy nicknames and "potential" of Giannis--I think Middleton might well end up being the best of the three.

[E-Balla]

Agreed. They've got quite a promising young core even if they're a year behind where we thought they'd be (totally fine with how young they are and Parker coming off an ACL!) Good future in MIL.

I'm less confident, though, about the FO direction and the Monroe benching only highlights it all the more.

Understand that I'm a huge team guy and spend more of time evaluating teams than individuals.

But the Bucks completely messed up this off-season. I'll give them a pass on Monroe because I think they believed between Kidd and some of their talented wing defenders that they could cover him defensively. Tho signing him and giving Henson a big extension never made any sense because you can't play them together.

But they didn't have to just give Dudley and Zaza away the way they did. Not only were those guys very important pieces on the court they are the exact kind of guys you want on the roster when things start going south the way they did. And much like Utah, they kinda wasted a year not seriously addressing the PG position. It's cute to play Giannis at PG at times, but this isn't a good strategy really.


And while he doesn't have the high draft status of Parker or the sexy nicknames and "potential" of Giannis--I think Middleton might well end up being the best of the three.

End up being? Middleton is clearly the best of the 3 as it is. He's 18/4/4 with elite defense and jumper guy right now. Giannis is a good player too but I'm not sure he'll ever be a good scorer and he isn't a major impact defense guy. Jabari is lost defensively but has off the charts offensive potential when you realize everything he's living on in the pros is what he was supposed to struggle with (athleticism, playing team ball, making his mark without having a ton of possessions). Overall I think Javari is the guy they should groom for stardom with Giannis and Khris as the perfect sidekicks (at least offensively). Defensively they already found the balance they need to have.

[Texas Chuck]

of course Middleton is the best right now. That's a given. But most seem to view the other 2 as having more potential. I'm saying I think he will be the best 3 years from now. 5 years from now.

[Dr Spaceman]

Agreed. They've got quite a promising young core even if they're a year behind where we thought they'd be (totally fine with how young they are and Parker coming off an ACL!) Good future in MIL.

I'm less confident, though, about the FO direction and the Monroe benching only highlights it all the more.

Understand that I'm a huge team guy and spend more of time evaluating teams than individuals.

But the Bucks completely messed up this off-season. I'll give them a pass on Monroe because I think they believed between Kidd and some of their talented wing defenders that they could cover him defensively. Tho signing him and giving Henson a big extension never made any sense because you can't play them together.

But they didn't have to just give Dudley and Zaza away the way they did. Not only were those guys very important pieces on the court they are the exact kind of guys you want on the roster when things start going south the way they did. And much like Utah, they kinda wasted a year not seriously addressing the PG position. It's cute to play Giannis at PG at times, but this isn't a good strategy really.


And while he doesn't have the high draft status of Parker or the sexy nicknames and "potential" of Giannis--I think Middleton might well end up being the best of the three.

There's a huge market inefficiency for veterans right now and IMO it's where everyone who's trying to be Morey misses the boat.

As you said the Monroe decision was justifiable. He's a decent young player who matches the age range of your core. As you said though they're clearly missing it on what Dudley and especially Zaza brought. It's not a bad thing to win games, and it's not even a bad thing to spend short-term money on guys who will help you establish a professional culture.

It's actually a huge problem I've been keeping my eye on for a while now. So many young teams take a step back when they "trim the fat"- not realizing that guys can bring more than talent and physical ability and youth to the table. Now obviously I'm not advocating they drop log-term money on a guy like Dudley, but there's a sense around the league that you only sign guys like that when you're close to contention, and I don't see it that way.

The low-tier veteran is being replaced by young guys who will bust their ass and hustle and come cheap, but don't have the same smarts and experience. This was a major misstep by the Bucks, not the least of which they now have no one to actually threaten when they bench Parker or Gianni's or whoever (as they have done) because it's an empty threat.

[skones]

There's a huge market inefficiency for veterans right now and IMO it's where everyone who's trying to be Morey misses the boat.

As you said the Monroe decision was justifiable. He's a decent young player who matches the age range of your core. As you said though they're clearly missing it on what Dudley and especially Zaza brought. It's not a bad thing to win games, and it's not even a bad thing to spend short-term money on guys who will help you establish a professional culture.

It's actually a huge problem I've been keeping my eye on for a while now. So many young teams take a step back when they "trim the fat"- not realizing that guys can bring more than talent and physical ability and youth to the table. Now obviously I'm not advocating they drop log-term money on a guy like Dudley, but there's a sense around the league that you only sign guys like that when you're close to contention, and I don't see it that way.

The low-tier veteran is being replaced by young guys who will bust their ass and hustle and come cheap, but don't have the same smarts and experience. This was a major misstep by the Bucks, not the least of which they now have no one to actually threaten when they bench Parker or Gianni's or whoever (as they have done) because it's an empty threat.

There's also the take a step back to take two steps forward mantra. It forces the youth to take the reigns, develop leadership, and begin to establish a hierarchy to hold themselves and teammates accountable for their actions. Vets have an expiration date and it's easy, as a super young player, to rely on their experience and leadership to get you through those times, but when they're gone, what do you have? It's a crutch to an extent.

[AussieBuck]

17/11/7 post all star break. Came up an inch short of his third triple double in that span today. Tallest PG ever.