Sarver's open letter to Suns fans

[saintEscaton]

How you keep spouting paragraphs defending SARVER and bashing JC when we are in the midst of the longest dry spell in team history is beyond me.. we are in YEAR 6 (more than half a decade) of a playoff drought with this current year ON COURSE for WORST RECORD in team history. If you cant accept how bad weve been under Bobs tenure then i dont know what to tell you.. you are clearly biased.

What action of Sarver's am I defending? That he bought the team? How am I bashing Colangelo, by saying he created a $200 million debt, which forced him to sell the team?

Our playoff dry spell doesn't have to have anything to do with who our owner is. Jerry had his fair share of dry spells, and I'm not blaming him for them, just pointing out that they happened as well. We have barely missed the playoffs in many of the seasons within the current dry spells, some with above 500 records, and if in the Eastern conference, we'd enjoy a home court advantage.

As far as this season, if you don't think that Markieff and many many injuries was the cause of our record, then "I do t know what to tell you."

Sarver has made his fair share of blunders and mistakes, but I don't see the point in praising Jerry, when his ownership mistakes is what caused the owner change.

Wait, what?! Did you just say our dry spell has no correlation to our ownership??? Then who should we attribute our franchise misfortunes to? Lady luck?? Lol.. As Bgwood pointed the disparity between our playoff rate between the two eras are so wide that its starting to get laughable.. Winning records aside, There is a huge reason why JC is still held in great esteem by the league (Team USA, etc etc), his body of work is simply admirable. I dont even know what positive things to day about Bobs tenure..

Being penny wise and pound foolish

[RunDogGun]

How you keep spouting paragraphs defending SARVER and bashing JC when we are in the midst of the longest dry spell in team history is beyond me.. we are in YEAR 6 (more than half a decade) of a playoff drought with this current year ON COURSE for WORST RECORD in team history. If you cant accept how bad weve been under Bobs tenure then i dont know what to tell you.. you are clearly biased.

What action of Sarver's am I defending? That he bought the team? How am I bashing Colangelo, by saying he created a $200 million debt, which forced him to sell the team?

Our playoff dry spell doesn't have to have anything to do with who our owner is. Jerry had his fair share of dry spells, and I'm not blaming him for them, just pointing out that they happened as well. We have barely missed the playoffs in many of the seasons within the current dry spells, some with above 500 records, and if in the Eastern conference, we'd enjoy a home court advantage.

As far as this season, if you don't think that Markieff and many many injuries was the cause of our record, then "I do t know what to tell you."

Sarver has made his fair share of blunders and mistakes, but I don't see the point in praising Jerry, when his ownership mistakes is what caused the owner change.

Wait, what?! Did you just say our dry spell has no correlation to our ownership??? Then who should we attribute our franchise misfortunes to? Lady luck?? Lol.. As Bgwood pointed the disparity between our playoff rate between the two eras are so wide that its starting to get laughable.. Winning records aside, There is a huge reason why JC is still held in great esteem by the league (Team USA, etc etc), his body of work is simply admirable. I dont even know what positive things to day about Bobs tenure..

Please reread, and don't interpret what you want to see. I said it doesn't have to have anything to do with our owner. I never said there was no correlation. Next, so it's Robert's fault Amare got poked in the eye, and that is why we missed the playoffs? We barely missed the playoffs in multiple years, one year having one of the highest records to miss the playoffs. The West got much tougher, and even in the 48 win year, we lost Bledsoe for half of the season. This season we have had massive injury issues, so that's the owner's fault? I guess we can blame JC for the drug issue in the 80s, Dumas's drug issues, Kidd beating his wife, Robinson smoking pot?

We did very well during the Nash era, and then had to rebuild after we traded him. Like I've already said a number of times, Sarver has had his fair share of mistakes and blunders, and JC put the team so far in debt that he had to sell the team. I don't see how anyone can get passed that. I've never said anything else bad about JC, other than pointing out that he too had mistakes and blunders. But feel free to keep making up stuff I haven't said, and I'm sure the peanut gallery will and1 you.

Thanks for answering none of my questions. But I'll ask them again. What action of Sarver's am I defending? How am I bashing Jerry? These are charges you put on me, yet you can't even point to one in which I do these things? Maybe you can get Saint to answer them with his pound of foolishness.

[Damkac]

The Suns started the 96'-97' season 0-13? Why the hell didn't they keep tanking? That was the Duncan draft!

And the Suns were picking 16th and of course picked a pg. Not many things have changed

[GMATCallahan]

But Sarver didn't force Mike to do a bad job, nor hire Banks and not play him, right. I think "forced" is a loaded term, and I think you are using that.

I was not using "forced" in a loaded sense, especially given that I do not see the Banks signing as a disaster; it was not consequential.

My point is that the discussion was about comparing ownership regimes, and D'Antoni served as general manager under Sarver, not Colangelo. He was not Colangelo's hire as GM.

[bwgood77]

But Sarver didn't force Mike to do a bad job, nor hire Banks and not play him, right. I think "forced" is a loaded term, and I think you are using that.

I was not using "forced" in a loaded sense, especially given that I do not see the Banks signing as a disaster; it was not consequential.

My point is that the discussion was about comparing ownership regimes, and D'Antoni served as general manager under Sarver, not Colangelo. He was not Colangelo's hire as GM.

Agreed. I'm not sure how D'Antoni being put into a GM role under Sarver doesn't only make Sarver look more incompetent.

[bwgood77]

How you keep spouting paragraphs defending SARVER and bashing JC when we are in the midst of the longest dry spell in team history is beyond me.. we are in YEAR 6 (more than half a decade) of a playoff drought with this current year ON COURSE for WORST RECORD in team history. If you cant accept how bad weve been under Bobs tenure then i dont know what to tell you.. you are clearly biased.

What action of Sarver's am I defending? That he bought the team? How am I bashing Colangelo, by saying he created a $200 million debt, which forced him to sell the team?

Our playoff dry spell doesn't have to have anything to do with who our owner is. Jerry had his fair share of dry spells, and I'm not blaming him for them, just pointing out that they happened as well. We have barely missed the playoffs in many of the seasons within the current dry spells, some with above 500 records, and if in the Eastern conference, we'd enjoy a home court advantage.

As far as this season, if you don't think that Markieff and many many injuries was the cause of our record, then "I do t know what to tell you."

Sarver has made his fair share of blunders and mistakes, but I don't see the point in praising Jerry, when his ownership mistakes is what caused the owner change.

Wait, what?! Did you just say our dry spell has no correlation to our ownership??? Then who should we attribute our franchise misfortunes to? Lady luck?? Lol.. As Bgwood pointed the disparity between our playoff rate between the two eras are so wide that its starting to get laughable.. Winning records aside, There is a huge reason why JC is still held in great esteem by the league (Team USA, etc etc), his body of work is simply admirable. I dont even know what positive things to day about Bobs tenure..

Maybe not worth taking the bait of empty arguments that will never stop.

[RunDogGun]

What action of Sarver's am I defending? That he bought the team? How am I bashing Colangelo, by saying he created a $200 million debt, which forced him to sell the team?

Our playoff dry spell doesn't have to have anything to do with who our owner is. Jerry had his fair share of dry spells, and I'm not blaming him for them, just pointing out that they happened as well. We have barely missed the playoffs in many of the seasons within the current dry spells, some with above 500 records, and if in the Eastern conference, we'd enjoy a home court advantage.

As far as this season, if you don't think that Markieff and many many injuries was the cause of our record, then "I do t know what to tell you."

Sarver has made his fair share of blunders and mistakes, but I don't see the point in praising Jerry, when his ownership mistakes is what caused the owner change.

Wait, what?! Did you just say our dry spell has no correlation to our ownership??? Then who should we attribute our franchise misfortunes to? Lady luck?? Lol.. As Bgwood pointed the disparity between our playoff rate between the two eras are so wide that its starting to get laughable.. Winning records aside, There is a huge reason why JC is still held in great esteem by the league (Team USA, etc etc), his body of work is simply admirable. I dont even know what positive things to day about Bobs tenure..

Maybe not worth taking the bait of empty arguments that will never stop.

Or maybe he should not jump into a discussion, and throw charges at someone, in which they NEVER said. This will probably just get erased, though. It's tough to bait someone, when they come at you first, don't you think? Maybe you have that the wrong way around, but since you agree with him, you won't do anything about it.

[bwgood77]

I will abide by my own advice. I made the mistake of taking bait already, which I shouldn't have, and thus deleted my post as I shouldn't be engaged in nonsensical arguments.

[RunDogGun]

I will abide by my own advice. I made the mistake of taking bait already, which I shouldn't have, and thus deleted my post as I shouldn't be engaged in nonsensical arguments.

There wasn't any bait, you quoted me, and I responded to that quote. I didn't respond to your earlier nonsensical argument, and threw it back at you, later when you kept at it, and said I was "clearly a huge Sarver fan". Take some responsibility for your own actions. I didn't bait this new guy either. He quoted me, and made false charges. I responded to him, asking examples of his charges, and he provided nothing. Posters should be allowed to respond to other posters, when they falsely charge other posters, even if a mod is the one making those false claims.

If you want to continue it through a pm, that is fine with me, but don't claim I'm baiting someone, when they quote me, and make false claims.

[bwgood77]

It's just tiring. I don't think anyone enjoys reading it, and there was/is no point bring up old arguments again.

[RunDogGun]

It's just tiring. I don't think anyone enjoys reading it, and there was/is no point bring up old arguments again.

Then pm me about it, don't say I'm baiting people, when they quote me first. I'm not a Jedi.

[GMATCallahan]

We could also look at where those playoff teams exited. Ten in the first round under JC and then one under RS.

The Suns also made the playoffs twenty-five times under Colangelo, compared to six times under Sarver.

[RunDogGun]

We could also look at where those playoff teams exited. Ten in the first round under JC and then one under RS.

The Suns also made the playoffs twenty-five times under Colangelo, compared to six times under Sarver.

Yes, more yrs of ownership will have that effect sometimes, but still doesn't explain the 2-1 ratio of 60+ wins Sarver has under his ownership, and I haven't even mentioned the chip for the Mercury.

[GMATCallahan]

The Suns started the 96'-97' season 0-13? Why the hell didn't they keep tanking? That was the Duncan draft!

And the Suns were picking 16th and of course picked a pg. Not many things have changed

... not sure which draft you are referring to, but Phoenix did not possess a first round draft pick in 1997, having surrendered it to Cleveland in the deal for the late John "Hot Rod" Williams in October 1995. In 1996, the Suns drafted Steve Nash with the fifteenth pick, which represented a great selection. One of the reasons why Phoenix drafted so well under Jerry Colangelo, especially with Cotton Fitzsimmons in tow, was that the Suns usually drafted based on talent, not need. Drafting for need is a poor idea in general, and that philosophy frequently backfires.

I will also note that although the Suns did not possess an obvious need for a point guard when they plucked Nash in 1996, Kevin Johnson was entering the final year of his contract and planning to retire after the upcoming season. Drafting Nash still constituted a surprise because the Suns also featured Elliot Perry, a good twenty-seven-year old point guard under contract for five more seasons at affordable salaries. At the time, I considered Perry the Suns' point guard of the future, but even so, Phoenix seemed to have a need for another point guard moving forward.

Of course, popular media stories and NBA.com promotional material will now tell you that the Suns drafted Nash even though they already featured both Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd; this story is false. Phoenix actually acquired Kidd six months after they drafted Nash.

All that said, while selecting Nash showed the shrewdness of the Phoenix front office, Jermaine O'Neal—who went two picks later to Portland—would have also been worthwhile.

[GMATCallahan]

The Suns started the 96'-97' season 0-13? Why the hell didn't they keep tanking? That was the Duncan draft!

The Suns were never tanking that season, and the 0-13 start constituted a shock to almost everyone. Phoenix began the year with one of the NBA's deepest rosters in terms of quality NBA players; as a non-Phoenix fan friend of mine told me in October 1996, before the regular season started, "The Suns are loaded."

But half of the active roster was new, the early schedule proved brutal (including two games against the defending champion Bulls), and as I indicated earlier, the Suns were without their best player and offensive linchpin, Kevin Johnson (a "Steve Nash-type," in the words of Kenny Smith on TNT in 2005, except with more explosive scoring ability and much better defense) for the first eleven games of the year. And Phoenix was without its defensive anchor, center John "Hot Rod" Williams, for the first twelve games of the season. (Additionally, the Suns were without arguably their second-best defensive big man, Mark Bryant, for that entire 0-13 stretch and beyond.)

Once Johnson and Williams returned, the Suns were not going to keep losing in that manner. Indeed, after the 0-13 start, Phoenix went 8-3 over the team's next eleven games, even though K.J. was not in "mid-season form" because he had had no training camp or preseason and just a couple of practices before returning from double-hernia surgery, which had sidelined him for about two months. Despite a general (and typical) lack of recognition, Kevin Johnson would emerge as the best guard in the NBA that season after Michael Jordan and actually enjoyed one of the unique seasons in NBA history. No one in league history has combined three-point shooting, playmaking, and the ability to reach the free throw line to the extent that Johnson did that year. Thus with Kevin Johnson (and he only missed one more game—due to the flu—after coming back from the double-hernia surgery), there was no way that the Suns would have been bad enough to realistically compete for the top pick in the draft. Phoenix could have tried to trade K.J., but Jerry Colangelo had made a verbal no-trade promise to him back in July 1994 when the point guard inked a one-year, $7M contract extension for the '96-'97 season (after which K.J. planned to retire). Moreover, Colangelo possessed no interest in Phoenix becoming a rotten team, and the Suns' roster possessed a plethora of quality veteran players. The nature of the roster was nothing like this year's team.

Finally, the team that possessed the greatest odds of landing the top selection, and thus drafting Tim Duncan, was none other than the Boston Celtics, who went 15-67 in '96-'97. And of course, the Celtics ended up with the third pick in the draft instead and would not make the playoffs for five more years. So "tanking" for Duncan certainly would not have guaranteed Duncan. Instead, on December 26, 1996, Phoenix traded Michael Finley (a future two-time All-Star), Sam Cassell (a future All-Star), and A.C. Green (a former All-Star) to Dallas for a twenty-three-year old Jason Kidd, who had been the second pick in the draft in 1994 and had shared the Rookie of the Year Award with Grant Hill in 1995 before making the All-Star team in 1996. Thus the Suns used their depth and accumulation of assets to procure a young franchise player via trade, which obviously guaranteed them a franchise player (provided that Kidd continued to develop) as opposed to playing the guessing game of the lottery. Of course, Kidd was not Duncan, but if the '96-'97 Suns had "tanked" for Duncan, they may well have ended up with Keith Van Horn or Chauncey Billups (who only developed into a major player after joining Detroit following the 2002 season, his sixth team in six years). Tracy McGrady was also available in the 1997 draft, but he turned out to be no more of a franchise player than Jason Kidd—possibly less so. Thus continuing to compete while using the trade avenue to acquire a young franchise player, rather than gambling on the totally uncontrollable lottery process, turned out to be the correct move. Sure, if the Suns had gotten lucky and drafted Duncan, everything would have been roses, but if Phoenix had gotten unlucky, like Boston, the Suns could have become a lottery team for years to come. And again, the Suns just were not going to be bad enough, with Kevin Johnson, to be in position to draft Duncan.

By the way, the Suns finished the '96-'97 season as one of the league's hottest teams, going 20-6 (.769, a 63-win pace per 82 games) in their last 26 regular season contests behind a radical four-guard offense that prefigured many of today's lineups, styles, and principles. Then, in the best-of-five First Round of the playoffs, they nearly knocked off defending conference champion Seattle and may well have down so if the referees had not evidently decided that they would not foul out Shawn Kemp (who had five fouls) in overtime of Game Four in Phoenix, thus allowing him to get away with multiple fouls on Kevin Johnson. But that game produced the greatest shot in NBA history:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cENqu-9-jD4[/youtube]

And the Suns won 56 games the next year.

But that '96-'97 Suns' team was arguably more rewarding than any in franchise history. They became the first, and to this date the only, club in NBA history to post double-digit losing and winning streaks in the same season, as the Suns won eleven in a row late in the year. When they were sixteen games under .500 in February 1997, Kevin Johnson reviewed the schedule and stated in the locker room that Phoenix could finish with a .500 record. Head coach Danny Ainge felt that K.J. was "out of his mind," and Jason Kidd said that "everybody thought it was funny at the time." But the Suns entered the final game of the regular season merely needing to defeat the worst team in the NBA, the second-year expansion Vancouver Grizzlies, at home in Phoenix in order to accomplish the feat. Almost inexplicably, the Grizzlies torched the nets and defeated the Suns 121-107, but Phoenix had still reached 40 wins, made the playoffs, and acquired a young franchise player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199704190PHO.html

[MathiasPW]

Great history lesson. Thank you

[YFZblu]

“My whole view of the millennial culture is that they have a tough time dealing with setbacks, and Markieff Morris is the perfect example. He had a setback with his brother in the offseason and he can’t seem to recover from it."

"We’ve had a number of setbacks this year that have taken their toll on us, and we haven’t been resilient. Therefore, it’s up to our entire organization to step up their game.”

"One thing I have learned through both business successes and setbacks, is that victory is impossible without a culture of accountability, respect and trust."

It seems to me that lately Robert Sarver has been repeating what appears to be a deep-seated personal belief that responding to "setbacks" helps define a group. I think the major disconnect between his own feelings and that of the fans is that many fans believe they've been dealing with setbacks since Sarver entered the picture - while Sarver refers to just this one season in these statements.

Regarding the letter itself: Robert Sarver helps run multiple organizations - these types of letters are what the Sarvers of the world do. It would be unwise to get too high or too low based on a letter like this.

It will be interesting to see how the Suns make out with a really favorable draft position in 2016.

[GMATCallahan]

The Colangelos traded Nash for the Suns' first lottery selection in eleven years, which Phoenix used to draft Shawn Marion.

Moreover, as I have written recently on this board, Nash forced the Suns to trade him by refusing to ink a contract extension as he entered the final season of his three-year rookie contract. Circa June 1998, he made clear to management that he wanted to run his own team rather than play in Jason Kidd's shadow (even though Nash liked Kidd). Prior to learning of Nash's stance, Phoenix wanted to keep Nash and eventually start him with Kidd in the same back-court. Nash had made ten starts after the 1998 All-Star break, including during the club's final playoff game.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1997&b=19980329&tm=phx

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1997&b=19980415&tm=phx

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1997&b=19980419&tm=hou

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199804290SAS.html

Jerry Colangelo basically dissuaded Kevin Johnson from returning to the Suns for another season, because the team was going to give even more minutes to Nash—"rightfully so," in K.J.'s publicly expressed opinion. Then Nash pulled the rug out from under the Suns' plan, and Phoenix spent the 1999 post-lockout season without an NBA-worthy reserve point guard while Rex Chapman broke down at shooting guard without a solid backup. The Suns had planned to use Nash as a premium insurance policy at both guard spots, while eventually starting him with Kidd on a full-time basis, but Nash possessed other ideas. Remember, his agent was Bill Duffy, who is also Goran Dragic's agent ...

I am not blaming Nash, by the way, as the Colangelos should have been less gullible and should have done a better job of ascertaining Nash's real ambitions. But the Suns did not trade him because they disliked his game or deemed him especially expendable.

By the way, here is an example of what I am talking about, from an article originally published on January 21, 1998:

So no fewer than a dozen teams have contacted the Suns. Among them are the Warriors, who are offering, coincidentally, Joe Smith.

It's going to take a lot more than that. The Suns aren't much interested in moving Nash. And Nash doesn't sound as if he's much interested in moving.

"I know there's going to be an opportunity to go to a great number of teams if I want, " he said. "But I might not necessarily want that. I'm not so sure that staying in Phoenix on a great team -- hopefully making a run at the championship -- isn't more important than going to a team and being the starting point guard. Look at championship teams; they all have more than two good guards."

The Suns have three -- at point guard, alone. But KJ is expected to retire after this season, and the Suns plan to use his $8 million on Nash. Already, Nash and Kidd are logging significant floor time together, and Ainge sees no reason that can't continue. It helps having a guy with Nash's attitude. It helps having a guy like Kidd, who is strong enough to play the big guard on defense.

"I love those two guys playing together, " said Ainge, gushing. "They're great together. They're fabulous together. They've got great chemistry, because they're good friends."

http://www.marinij.com/sports/20150321/geracie-steve-nash-before-stardom-arrived

The Colangelos committed the mistake of naively taking Nash's politically correct public statements at face value rather than digging deeper. When the guard surprised the Suns by refusing to ink a contract extension in June 1998 and instead suggesting that he wanted to be traded, Phoenix offered him to his hometown Vancouver Grizzlies in exchange for the second pick in the 1998 draft, but Vancouver general manager Stu Jackson turned down the proposal. The Suns then found a willing partner in another perennial lottery team, the Dallas Mavericks, who offered their first round pick in 1999, and Phoenix was fortunately able to draft Shawn Marion with the ninth selection that year.

Nash had impressed the Suns in practice as a rookie in '96-'97. When Kevin Johnson suffered a sprained ankle in the fourth quarter of Game Three of the 1997 Western Conference First Round versus Seattle, and was doubtful for Game Four, head coach Danny Ainge planned to insert Nash into the Suns' four-guard rotation and lineup if Johnson could not play. (Instead, K.J. played 50 minutes and recorded 23 points and 11 assists before fouling out in overtime, after the referees refused to foul out Shawn Kemp and allowed him to get away with multiple fouls on K.J. in the extra period.) Then, if K.J. followed through on his planned retirement after the 1997 season, Ainge intended to move Nash into Phoenix's four-guard rotation and lineup for the following season. But Jerry Colangelo met with K.J. three times after the Suns' playoff run ended in early May 1997, attempting to postpone his guard's retirement. (Ainge had held similar conversations with K.J. late in the regular season and suggested that Johnson could play in the NBA for another five or six years.) After watching the entire 1997 NBA Finals between Chicago and Utah, and reliving his own experience on that stage in 1993, K.J. decided that he wanted one last crack at returning to the NBA Finals and winning a championship, and he thus took up Colangelo on his offer just before the 1997 draft.

With Johnson back in the fold, the Suns offered Nash to his hometown Vancouver Grizzlies in exchange for the fourth overall selection. As he would the following year, Vancouver general manager Stu Jackson rejected the offer—and selected future journeyman combo guard Antonio Daniels instead. (If Jackson had accepted Phoenix's offer in either 1997 or 1998, the Grizzlies might still be playing in Vancouver.) Although I do not know who the Suns would have selected with the fourth pick in 1997, I suspect that their choice may have been Tracy McGrady. Phoenix's preference in 1996 had been Kobe Bryant, but he went two picks earlier. McGrady, conversely, would have been available with the fourth selection in 1997, and as a playoff team with good players at every position, the Suns could have afforded to take the long view and select a high school player at a time when such entrees still represented the exception.

Phoenix still valued Nash highly, however. A few months later, in the fall of 1997, the Suns were engaged in negotiations to acquire young power forward Antonio McDyess from Denver via a three-team trade also involving Cleveland. Despite having just drafted point guard Brevin Knight in the first round, the Cavaliers wanted Nash from Phoenix. The Suns, however, held out for a few weeks until Cleveland accepted shooting guard Wesley Person instead. Person had played a major role in Phoenix's four-guard rotation and lineup the previous season and had averaged 15.6 points (third on the team) and a team-leading 6.6 rebounds in the Suns' five-game First Round playoff series versus Seattle, shooting .550 on two-point field goal attempts and .424 on three-point field goal attempts (in 6.6 attempts per game) for a .640 True Shooting Percentage. In two of the last three playoff games, Person led Phoenix in scoring with 29 points and 26 points, respectively. Yet the Suns thought enough of Nash to hold out until Cleveland accepted the twenty-six-year old Person instead.

That decision proved to be a dubious one—and nearly a disastrous one. Although Nash did a nice job for the Suns in '97-'98, averaging 9.1 points and 3.4 assists in 21.9 minutes per contest while shooting a team-leading .415 on threes and posting a .556 True Shooting Percentage, his insertion into the rotation arguably created an imbalance due to an abundance of playmakers. Phoenix persuaded Kevin Johnson not to retire and then ended up using him as a decoy more often than not, squandering the opportunity presented by his return. The Suns went 15-2 in that regular season when he played at least 30 minutes, but replacing Person with Nash in Phoenix's rotation meant that the Suns were smaller at guard and could not play their three-guard and four-guard lineups as frequently, which ended up costing K.J. minutes. Danny Ainge's interest in developing Nash alongside Jason Kidd led to Nash starting nine games over K.J. after the All-Star break, but K.J. proved much more effective while in his customary role as a starter, averaging 16.4 points, 6.2 assists, 3.5 rebounds, a .486 field goal percentage, and a .596 True Shooting Percentage in the thirteen starts that he made that season, including the playoff opener. And when Nash turned around and showed no interest in remaining with the Suns long-term, Ainge's strategy appeared even more questionable.

Just as significant, thirty-year old shooting guard Rex Chapman started breaking down after the All-Star break in 1998. He missed eleven regular season games after the break and two of the Suns' four playoff games, shooting .261 from the field and .000 on threes in the two playoff games where he did play. Then, in the lockout-shortened, 50-game 1999 season, Chapman missed 24 percent of the Suns' games and shot .359 from the field, including .364 on two-point field goal attempts, before averaging 5.7 points on .286 field goal shooting in the First Round as Portland swept Phoenix. His declining health and effectiveness placed the Suns in a desperate situation at shooting guard, leading them to invest some $86M in Anfernee Hardaway, whose best days were already a couple of years in the past and who had already undergone multiple knee surgeries, including a Microfracture procedure, in Orlando. But if Phoenix had traded Nash instead of Wesley Person in the McDyess deal in October 1997, the Suns would have been in much better shape at shooting guard, with Person providing a viable long-term complement to Jason Kidd in the team's back-court. The club would not have been overly reliant on Chapman and would have avoided the desperation that led to the sign-and-trade for Hardaway (which, in addition to $86M, also cost Phoenix the services of forwards Danny Manning and Pat Garrity).

Fortunately, the Suns used the lottery pick obtained for Nash to select Shawn Marion in 1999, and in January 2004, Phoenix managed to offload Hardaway's contract on the Knicks, hence clearing the salary cap space to bring Nash back as a free agent that summer. Thus the Suns would enjoy a renaissance, but Phoenix almost suffered a long-term calamity by sticking with Nash during his first stint in Phoenix until the point where he told the Suns that he would not ink a contract extension.

[denial]

@RunDogGun, I never argue or reply to you with debate because debating with you is totally exhausting. Even if my point is more valid, you are just more willing to battle to the death over every little word than I am. If you are not a lawyer (or some other successful lucrative career) then I genuinely think you should go to law school. It is a brilliant skill that can render people like me so frustrated that we will just implode in a childish fit. I admire it.

Having said all of that, I should also mention (before I get to my main point) that, in this thread, your arguments are very crisp, intelligent, and logical. They all make really good sense and I am forced to agree with nearly all of it (even though traditionally I am all on JCs nuts and all hating on sarver). So I am not challenging 99.9999% of what you are saying.

But there is one thing that I have heard from several suns fans that is so pathetic, so weak, and just so ridiculous that it makes me furious every time I see it. I think you said something similar a few posts back.

The Suns aren't that bad, we almost made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years.


W H A T ! ! ! ! ? ? ?

16 of 30 teams makes the playoffs. How in the hell does ALMOST being the 16th best team out of 30 get perceived as a positive thing?
That is the ultimate corporate spin. It is the same crap McD said that made me stop trusting him too much. That sort of complacency is the problem with teams that are perpetually bad.

A more accurate statement would be "The Suns have been nearly unwatchable for 3 of the past 4 seasons".

And I guess that is my whole problem with your arguments, or any pro-front-office arguments. It is not with the veracity of your assertions. You make really solid points that by themselves, make a lot of sense.

My problem is with the attitude and mindset of the FO. That whole "we were almost in the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years" crap is the attitude of a loser who is not accountable for their contribution to the loss. I know McD and Sarver has lately said a couple of things like "we are accountable and it starts with me" but that is just diplomacy. The actions say "we think we are doing exactly the right things and we will prove you all wrong."

McD has made some great moves. He has made some decent saves (Kieff, Dragic). But the saves were only needed because of his mistakes. Which is OK. No one is perfect. He just is, in what he says publicly, starting to seem like that bully who pushes people around professionally because in real life he is a skinny coward. Now that is all total conjecture on my part, but that's just how the dude comes off to me now.

I know you don't like talking about Dragic and I think iirc that you are on the "support our current org and quit talking about past player" camp and maybe also on the "dragic is a whining crybaby camp" and maybe also on the "dragic is overpaid" camp, though I am not positive. But the IT/Dragic situation was a HUGE mistake that absolutely did cost us a couple of years. IT"S OK. I am not asking to fire McD. I am not asking Sarver to sell the team. I am just asking for people to stop defending bad decisions and to stop having this holier-than-thou attitude.

And yes it is old news but the bad taste wont go away. In my mind Dragic, numbers and salary aside, is a LOYAL WINNER (its an attitude thing. If you have never had it or seen it you might not get it) and a which is exactly what the suns desperately need.
Here is ALL I WANTED from McD, and I would never have started to doubt him.

"I should have never signed IT. It was a huge mistake in every way. It cost us Goran, who was a major part of us professionally and personally. The guy came back to play for us after we traded him once, and then we marginalized his game by focusing on selfish players who didn't fit. We tried to push a multi PG guard system and it failed. Then we responded to Goran's criticism like little kids and we engaged in public insults before trading him away. Our team is much worse than it was a couple of seasons ago. But we are working very hard to build a sustainable great team by stockpiling valuable young talent and we feel like we still have a chance to get it right. Also, regarding Kieff, I screwed that up too. Kieff and Marcus may be emotional and passionate, and they may be a bit volatile, but they are absolutely loyal men who stand by their friends and family and do what they say. They never back down from any adversity and we completely mishandled their situation. It still makes business, and basketball, sense that we traded Marcus. And it might also make sense that we traded Kieff too. But the way we handled that, on a personal level, was a little bit bitch of us, and we are working hard to make sure these things never happen again."

Everyone talks about how its a business and people need to just be professional. It is all so ridiculous. You make personal relationships at work. And you expect people to treat you as a friend, if they act like a friend. If I marry my boss and then she divorces me and moves to new york because its better for the company, it might be a great professional move, but its a mean personal move and I am going to be mad. I might quit the job. I likely will quit the job. Does that make me unprofessional? I guess yes, it does. But I am a human and it is exactly what I would probably do. And if, after that, someone blames me for the company's problems and not my ex-wife-boss, then that is silly. Even if it was just for business only, if my boss was smart she'd know that divorcing me would likely hurt my feelings and make me quit. And if, to top things off, the replacement she found for me caused the company to perform much worse than before she moved to new york, then professional or not, she made the wrong move for the company.

Of course Kieff has sucked ever since we got Marcus (I don't care about numbers this is just what I see with my eyes), so maybe trading both of them was warranted. But my point remains about the handling of it all.

Some people are all hard-on about McD's "you better come correct or dont talk to us" attitude.
Ask players/agents around the league if the Suns are respected or not and then come holler at me.

(EDIT: I DO think GM's respect us and McD. But I don't think any players want to play here and I don't think agents want to deal with us.)

(Edit#2: As it relates to Sarver's open letter, I thought the letter was a joke. It was like "Hey we know we didnt do everything right but we think we did do everything right and we know we are doing everything right so keep paying us and watching us even though it is probably more fun if you go watch a game of 11 year olds at your local boys and girls club you should still support us and pay us because we know we are right." Now, I DO believe that sarver cares about winning. And I also think he cares about the suns. And I also think McD is playing him. And I also think that open letter was written by Rob's PR firm, not himself.
Now, Im not mad at McD for playing him. Any smart person will make their boss feel like that person is the best ever and not replacable. And smart bosses trust their subordinates. So that relationship is OK. Even if McD is playing Sarver.)

[RunDogGun]

I respect the manner and approach Denial. The only reason I mentioned the almost making the playoffs, because making the playoffs somehow was brought into the conversation as a measuring stick to being a good owner. If we were in the East, we would have been sitting often with home court advantage, and gauging success on making the playoffs, when the West has been extremely more competitive than the East, seems tough to figure out.

I'm not a Sarver fan, as many have levied to me, I just grow tired of the rewriting of the history of Jerry. Yes he was a good owner from the basketball side of the business, but he made tons of mistakes as well. Sarver has too, and often it was who he chose to make basketball decisions.

As far as his letter....I really don't care whatever he says, it's what we do which matters to me. We have a bunch of picks and assets, and rising talent in Booker, Warren, and Len. So I can be patient and wait and see what becomes of those pieces. Hopefully the injury bug doesn't bite us so hard next year, and in a year where we might have come up short even with everyone healthy, it seems like an ok year to get bit.

As far as what has been said amongst management and players, I wouldn't know. So far we have only heard from disgruntled millionaires about how they have been wronged. I can't speculate to what they say as being all truth.

I hope that was in no way painful for you to read.