Suns at Miami

[Twuan89]

I thought Len looked really good in this one too.
I think, if he had a better supporting cast, he would be much more improved than we're seeing.

Hopefully get a high pick this year, get Bogdon in here, move some pieces/picks for a young prospect.
Keep Tucker since his energy could rub off on people. Keep Chandler for the vet in the locker room and stability.

I think Knight is the odd man out. Not that he isn't good, but we have a couple of other SG's in Booker and Goodwin (and Bogdon).

Let the team grow next year and then use 2017 to make a run at key free agents.

Blake Griffin will be a FA next year.

Would you like for the Suns to pick him up?

The bigger question is would HE like the Suns to pick him up. I'm guessing the answer is no.

But you agree that if the Suns sign Blake Griffin next year they instantly become championship contenders?

[King4Day]

I thought Len looked really good in this one too.
I think, if he had a better supporting cast, he would be much more improved than we're seeing.

Hopefully get a high pick this year, get Bogdon in here, move some pieces/picks for a young prospect.
Keep Tucker since his energy could rub off on people. Keep Chandler for the vet in the locker room and stability.

I think Knight is the odd man out. Not that he isn't good, but we have a couple of other SG's in Booker and Goodwin (and Bogdon).

Let the team grow next year and then use 2017 to make a run at key free agents.

Blake Griffin will be a FA next year.

Would you like for the Suns to pick him up?

He'd fit right in and it would help that he already has chemistry with Bledsoe.
I don't think that team would be any better than the Clips are now, but that's how you develop and build a team. If we landed Simmons or Ingram (position aside), pairing with that player, Booker, and Bledsoe, might entice him to come here.

[King4Day]

I thought Len looked really good in this one too.
I think, if he had a better supporting cast, he would be much more improved than we're seeing.

Hopefully get a high pick this year, get Bogdon in here, move some pieces/picks for a young prospect.
Keep Tucker since his energy could rub off on people. Keep Chandler for the vet in the locker room and stability.

I think Knight is the odd man out. Not that he isn't good, but we have a couple of other SG's in Booker and Goodwin (and Bogdon).

Let the team grow next year and then use 2017 to make a run at key free agents.

I think Knight is pretty unmovable right now mostly because there are SO many guards in this league and many still on rookie contracts. Some are already trying to be traded, like Teague (more of a pure passer). I mean, what team do you really think might want Knight? Orlando maybe would have but they just got Jennings (though he is expiring). We could maybe trade him for scraps just to clear cap space like Ilyasova (if they pick up team option) and CJ Watson and perhaps a 2nd round pick (or heavily protected 1st).

I just can't see a team wanting him as a key piece in a major trade. Some might say Utah, but is he that much better than Burks? A better passer, but Burks a much better 3 pt shooter... see comparison.. http://bkref.com/tiny/ULNwn

This is where the extra picks would come into play. I certainly don't want to dump him, but that might be a way to land someone.
If not, Knight should be relegated to the 6th man 'Jamal Crawford' role. High scorer off the bench.

[bwgood77]

Blake Griffin will be a FA next year.

Would you like for the Suns to pick him up?

The bigger question is would HE like the Suns to pick him up. I'm guessing the answer is no.

But you agree that if the Suns sign Blake Griffin next year they instantly become championship contenders?

No. We are routinely getting blown out by 30 points, and were with Knight, and even some with Bledsoe, and he is injury prone. There are only a handful of contenders in the near future.

[jcsunsfan]

The bigger question is would HE like the Suns to pick him up. I'm guessing the answer is no.

But you agree that if the Suns sign Blake Griffin next year they instantly become championship contenders?

No. We are routinely getting blown out by 30 points, and were with Knight, and even some with Bledsoe, and he is injury prone. There are only a handful of contenders in the near future.

The point differential is deceiving. I would not put much stock in it.

[bwgood77]

But you agree that if the Suns sign Blake Griffin next year they instantly become championship contenders?

No. We are routinely getting blown out by 30 points, and were with Knight, and even some with Bledsoe, and he is injury prone. There are only a handful of contenders in the near future.

The point differential is deceiving. I would not put much stock in it.

Fair enough, but I don't think we are one player away from being a contender, unless you are talking about contending for a playoff spot. Sure, we could turn into the Portland of next year, and gradually get better, but I prefer keeping picks and building through the draft unless we can trade Knight, Chandler, Tucker and some distant picks for a player or something, which may be doubtful.

[jcsunsfan]

No. We are routinely getting blown out by 30 points, and were with Knight, and even some with Bledsoe, and he is injury prone. There are only a handful of contenders in the near future.

The point differential is deceiving. I would not put much stock in it.

Fair enough, but I don't think we are one player away from being a contender, unless you are talking about contending for a playoff spot. Sure, we could turn into the Portland of next year, and gradually get better, but I prefer keeping picks and building through the draft unless we can trade Knight, Chandler, Tucker and some distant picks for a player or something, which may be doubtful.

Bledsoe, Warren (developing), Booker (developing), 4 picks in this draft, free agency, plus all of the trade fodder in Knight, Bledsoe, PJ, extra picks. No we are not one player away, but with all that is available, and everything falling right, we could be two summers away.

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

Man Dragic must really be regretting taking his talents to South Beach where he's just relegated to spot up duty. He could be captaining this sinking ship right now

I know, right! McD must be really regretting not paying $17M for a 13.3 / 5.5 stat line PG though his Age 33 season. Much better than paying $3M less for a 24YO 19.7 / 5.1 stat line PG (in a 2 PG system, mind you, where he "shares" assts with Bledsoe). And you are right, he could be captaining this sinking ship, just like he did in our 25-57 season. A real 'Game Changer' that Dragic is!

Oh, and for those that called me out in the other thread about 'not being able to get past' Dragic's tom-foolery a year ago, it appears Dragic can't let go either. You know, the nicest guy who never talks smack...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241059/Goran-Dragic-On-Suns-I-Was-Glad-As-Soon-As-I-Got-Out-Of-There

And another point. It's apparently ok for those that bring up trading Gortat, or all the great things Colangelo did while here, yet I can't discuss Dragic's case from a year ago with out taking crap for it? OK. I'll be sure to make comments to those posters in the future that bring up junk from before Dragic was traded, since apparently that's the 'modus operandi' on the forums?? And just to be clear, here's the quote from the now 'locked' thread in which it was said, otherwise, I'd point it out there.

Man, someone is still really upset with Dragic a year after the fact.

But since I'm bringing up Dragic again, after another poster did, I figured I'd better address it before I get another 'shot fired' in my direction from discussing my displeasure with an incident that took place a year ago. I guess since I'm on the 'other side' of the debate, that's the unpopular opinion, on these forums regarding the Dragic incident, I'm open to ridicule and harassment for voicing said unpopular opinion? IDK, that's the general sense I take away from the whole deal. But maybe I should just change my opinion to fall in line with the others that think Dragic was blameless and it was all McD's fault; maybe then I could bring it up, as many on here do, and do not receive the same 'shots fired', as evidenced by this saintEscaton's original post on the matter earlier in the thread.

Is that about right??

You are the main culprit continually bringing up Dragic. Personally I'd rather not have Dragic OR Knight.

Negative, but nice try. Any time I bring up Dragic, it's in response to someone else bringing up something else that happened at that time. But got it. Next time you complain about the Knight trade, I'll be sure to comment:

Man, someone is still really upset with the Knight trade a year after the fact.

Is that how we are going to play it? Then I can say "you are the main culprit continually bringing up the Knight trade"...it works both ways. But when I RESPONDED to Frank, crying about how McD 'broke up the team' a full 6 months before Dragic was traded, yet oddly enough, I don't see you making comments about Frank who cries about McD TWICE as often as I do about Dragic, about what McD did 18 months ago?

So before you start casting stones, maybe look at my point of view and wonder why I would say something to the effect that I did.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I know, right! McD must be really regretting not paying $17M for a 13.3 / 5.5 stat line PG though his Age 33 season. Much better than paying $3M less for a 24YO 19.7 / 5.1 stat line PG (in a 2 PG system, mind you, where he "shares" assts with Bledsoe). And you are right, he could be captaining this sinking ship, just like he did in our 25-57 season. A real 'Game Changer' that Dragic is!

Oh, and for those that called me out in the other thread about 'not being able to get past' Dragic's tom-foolery a year ago, it appears Dragic can't let go either. You know, the nicest guy who never talks smack...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241059/Goran-Dragic-On-Suns-I-Was-Glad-As-Soon-As-I-Got-Out-Of-There

And another point. It's apparently ok for those that bring up trading Gortat, or all the great things Colangelo did while here, yet I can't discuss Dragic's case from a year ago with out taking crap for it? OK. I'll be sure to make comments to those posters in the future that bring up junk from before Dragic was traded, since apparently that's the 'modus operandi' on the forums?? And just to be clear, here's the quote from the now 'locked' thread in which it was said, otherwise, I'd point it out there.



But since I'm bringing up Dragic again, after another poster did, I figured I'd better address it before I get another 'shot fired' in my direction from discussing my displeasure with an incident that took place a year ago. I guess since I'm on the 'other side' of the debate, that's the unpopular opinion, on these forums regarding the Dragic incident, I'm open to ridicule and harassment for voicing said unpopular opinion? IDK, that's the general sense I take away from the whole deal. But maybe I should just change my opinion to fall in line with the others that think Dragic was blameless and it was all McD's fault; maybe then I could bring it up, as many on here do, and do not receive the same 'shots fired', as evidenced by this saintEscaton's original post on the matter earlier in the thread.

Is that about right??

You are the main culprit continually bringing up Dragic. Personally I'd rather not have Dragic OR Knight.

Negative, but nice try. Any time I bring up Dragic, it's in response to someone else bringing up something else that happened at that time. But got it. Next time you complain about the Knight trade, I'll be sure to comment:

Man, someone is still really upset with the Knight trade a year after the fact.

Is that how we are going to play it? Then I can say "you are the main culprit continually bringing up the Knight trade"...it works both ways. But when I RESPONDED to Frank, crying about how McD 'broke up the team' a full 6 months before Dragic was traded, yet oddly enough, I don't see you making comments about Frank who cries about McD TWICE as often as I do about Dragic, about what McD did 18 months ago?

So before you start casting stones, maybe look at my point of view and wonder why I would say something to the effect that I did.

Fair enough, but at least I'm talking about a guy who is on the team. We've tried to shut down and lock Dragic threads time and time again because this dead horse has been beaten into a pulp by now. I don't even think there is anyone that still wishes Dragic was on our team at this point. If there is, it's only a few people.

And complaining about McD, at least he is our current GM.

You can keep talking about Dragic all you want. I was just commenting on how, to me, it seems that I see you talking about Dragic more than anyone else. Perhaps just my perception.

[Frank Lee]

Fitting that Dragic dropped a 3ball as the final basket to cover the vegas spread (-14). Been cashing in on this lowly squad...so there is that saving grace to this season.Been taking 1st Q, 1st Half, and Game with good success. Good (and sad) to watch a guard who pushes the pace. I don't understand why Bledsoe can't get that into his game. Thats the thing this club needs and just quit saying we are a running squad.

Booker continues to work on his handles, he might end up being our best PG. Its remarkable how much easier it is to watch DBook with the ball in his hands more so than either/any of our PGs, EB and BK included. He 'knows' how to play with others.


Was odd to see so many former players assembled on an opposing team. Great sign up in JoeJ. Hope the heat get Bosh back and make a run in the east. Be a good dose of medicine for the DragonSlayers.


Fun Dragon facts....

there are 35 players who make more $$ than Dragic this yr.

Brandon Knight makes $1.2 million less this season, 3.3 mill less in 2017, and 3.4 mill less in 2018 ... the same (almost) for Bledsoe, and one of them seems destined to lose significant minutes, starting position, or traded entirely.... if they can get/stay healthy.

Wesley Mathews will make more $$ than Dragic when they both are 32 yrs old.

Dragic will make 12 million more than 33 yr old Soon-to-be-18-minute-a-night-Back-up-Center-Tyson Chandler over the next 3 yrs.... Perspective anyone?

To argue about $$ amounts w/o considering the big picture (Team) and the BIGGER picture (League/cap) is a biased approach. It is very likely Dragic's deal over the next 3-4 yrs will be considered on par with production. I think we are all going to be in shock when we see the salaries the next couple of rounds of free agency. Certainly, acquiring Dragic was a win now and the next couple yrs move by Wizard Riley. Barring severe injury, I'd imagine Dragic's production to be positive for the duration of his deal. I think what we are seeing over the past 2-3 weeks is the Dragic Riley gladly traded for and signed..... but what does he know ???

and just for clarity about the trade to teams demand...McDonough said the Suns never received a list of preferred destinations and did not care if there was one because of how Dragic and his agents handled the situation. (from Coro/USA Today)


Here's a tasty....FANTASY BASKETBALL (from espn)
Dragic dropped in 25 points (10-18 FG, 3-6 3Pt, 2-4 FT) to go along with seven rebounds, four assists and a steal in 34 minutes on Thursday in a win over the Suns.

Spin: Dragic was simply magnificent once again and lit up the Suns for a season-high 25 points on Thursday. It's best to roster Dragic in favorable matchups, but lately, he's becoming a matchup-proof point guard across the industry. Dragic has averaged 19.6 points over his last seven games and you'd be hard-pressed to find a more consistent point guard in the NBA at this point. Continue to roll out Dragic in every single fantasy format. ( Nav)


oh well.... on to Orlando


PS....BTW.... there was a very interesting view point on the value of draft picks, future and present at phx-suns.net. I tried to find it but in haste could not. There was no point to plagiarize such concise analysis and pawn as my own. Hey Carey... do you know where it is... it is one of the better takes.

[LukasBMW]

My ideal situation is for us to use our two picks on young players, try to trade Knight and other assets for a star or borderline star, and then try to sign another star or borderline star in free agency. Then we pick up a few hardworking vets.

Youngsters
-Booker
-Len
-Warren
-#3 pick
-#10 pick from Washington

Vets
-Tucker
-Chandler
-Mirza or free agent
-Ronie Price or free agent

Stars
-Bledsoe
-Player from trade
-Player from signing

Trade bait
-Knight
-Archie
-Protected future pick
-Miami picks

3 borderline stars keep us competitive and in the playoff picture. The vets hold down the locker room. The youngsters get room to grow.

[Frank Lee]

well, at least we were playing against this 'horse'

[saintEscaton]

I though Bledsoe and Knight were our "borderline stars" all but in name recognition only. Obviously we gotta do better than that

[AtheJ415]

My ideal situation is for us to use our two picks on young players, try to trade Knight and other assets for a star or borderline star, and then try to sign another star or borderline star in free agency. Then we pick up a few hardworking vets.

Youngsters
-Booker
-Len
-Warren
-#3 pick
-#10 pick from Washington

Vets
-Tucker
-Chandler
-Mirza or free agent
-Ronie Price or free agent

Stars
-Bledsoe
-Player from trade
-Player from signing

Trade bait
-Knight
-Archie
-Protected future pick
-Miami picks

3 borderline stars keep us competitive and in the playoff picture. The vets hold down the locker room. The youngsters get room to grow.

I want nothing to do with Price or Tucker on this roster. Tucker should be traded imo. Chandler too but we'll have to see who would actually take him. We can throw rocks into a crowd of FA's and hit guys better than Price.

The only FA I could see us getting who would fit the star label is Whiteside. Horford is too old. Whiteside will be 27, but at least he doesn't have a lot of miles. It would be a risk because of his work ethic, but he's proven to be a defensive anchor and that's valuable. I just don't see anybody this offseason who will make us win given the age of the rest of the roster. Imo, we're better off losing next year, keeping all our picks, bringing over Bogdan, and then signing an FA next year like Hayward or a PF (assuming we don't have Simmons on our team).

[ATTL]

My ideal situation is for us to use our two picks on young players, try to trade Knight and other assets for a star or borderline star, and then try to sign another star or borderline star in free agency. Then we pick up a few hardworking vets.

Youngsters
-Booker
-Len
-Warren
-#3 pick
-#10 pick from Washington

Vets
-Tucker
-Chandler
-Mirza or free agent
-Ronie Price or free agent

Stars
-Bledsoe
-Player from trade
-Player from signing

Trade bait
-Knight
-Archie
-Protected future pick
-Miami picks

3 borderline stars keep us competitive and in the playoff picture. The vets hold down the locker room. The youngsters get room to grow.

I want nothing to do with Price or Tucker on this roster. Tucker should be traded imo. Chandler too but we'll have to see who would actually take him. We can throw rocks into a crowd of FA's and hit guys better than Price.

The only FA I could see us getting who would fit the star label is Whiteside. Horford is too old. Whiteside will be 27, but at least he doesn't have a lot of miles. It would be a risk because of his work ethic, but he's proven to be a defensive anchor and that's valuable. I just don't see anybody this offseason who will make us win given the age of the rest of the roster. Imo, we're better off losing next year, keeping all our picks, bringing over Bogdan, and then signing an FA next year like Hayward or a PF (assuming we don't have Simmons on our team).

Whiteside would be interesting, he's definitely better than Tyson and would improve our front court substantially. I think every team will be wary of him and if he'll check out after getting paid.

[NavLDO]

Here's a tasty....FANTASY BASKETBALL (from espn)
Dragic dropped in 25 points (10-18 FG, 3-6 3Pt, 2-4 FT) to go along with seven rebounds, four assists and a steal in 34 minutes on Thursday in a win over the Suns.

Spin: Dragic was simply magnificent once again and lit up the Suns for a season-high 25 points on Thursday. It's best to roster Dragic in favorable matchups, but lately, he's becoming a matchup-proof point guard across the industry. Dragic has averaged 19.6 points over his last seven games and you'd be hard-pressed to find a more consistent point guard in the NBA at this point. Continue to roll out Dragic in every single fantasy format. ( Nav) [b]-- Seriously?? Against the powerhouse known as the Suns...against our backup, to the backup, to the backup of our starting PG? Wow! Impressive!! And 7 games? It only took him a year. Yet Len has been rolling double doubles consistently for the past month.[/b] (:wave: Frank, and saintEscaton, and other Len haters...)

But please, Frank...continue to think that you've made a significant point here... Fact is, most of Heat fans are crying about losing their future picks for Dragic. But hey, you keep onnnn...keepin' on with your Fantasy Basketball evidence/answer to REAL NBA basketball issues...

[NavLDO]

Spoiler:

You are the main culprit continually bringing up Dragic. Personally I'd rather not have Dragic OR Knight.

Negative, but nice try. Any time I bring up Dragic, it's in response to someone else bringing up something else that happened at that time. But got it. Next time you complain about the Knight trade, I'll be sure to comment:

Man, someone is still really upset with the Knight trade a year after the fact.

Is that how we are going to play it? Then I can say "you are the main culprit continually bringing up the Knight trade"...it works both ways. But when I RESPONDED to Frank, crying about how McD 'broke up the team' a full 6 months before Dragic was traded, yet oddly enough, I don't see you making comments about Frank who cries about McD TWICE as often as I do about Dragic, about what McD did 18 months ago?

So before you start casting stones, maybe look at my point of view and wonder why I would say something to the effect that I did.

Fair enough, but at least I'm talking about a guy who is on the team. We've tried to shut down and lock Dragic threads time and time again because this dead horse has been beaten into a pulp by now. I don't even think there is anyone that still wishes Dragic was on our team at this point. If there is, it's only a few people.

And complaining about McD, at least he is our current GM.

You can keep talking about Dragic all you want. I was just commenting on how, to me, it seems that I see you talking about Dragic more than anyone else. Perhaps just my perception.

So, I just replied...AGAIN...to another post about Dragic that I didn't initiate. Is that ok?? Or am I crying about Dragic again?

And yes, McD and Knight are still on the team, but our LAL picks never WERE on the team, and IT has come and gone, yet there is still crying going on about him...

...yet still have not seen a remark by you about other posters still crying about those things, or heck, Sunsdeuce and his 28 point list, or whatever it was, about McD being terrible and yep, he brought up assets long gone in that post as well...

So yes, I do feel a bit like being called out unnecessarily...by a mod, no less, which is my main gripe. You and I are typically on the same wavelength 80% of the time, so I guess another reason why I took it to heart a little bit.

But whatever, I guess, I'll just get the sand out of my vag and grow up...

[bwgood77]

Negative, but nice try. Any time I bring up Dragic, it's in response to someone else bringing up something else that happened at that time. But got it. Next time you complain about the Knight trade, I'll be sure to comment:



Is that how we are going to play it? Then I can say "you are the main culprit continually bringing up the Knight trade"...it works both ways. But when I RESPONDED to Frank, crying about how McD 'broke up the team' a full 6 months before Dragic was traded, yet oddly enough, I don't see you making comments about Frank who cries about McD TWICE as often as I do about Dragic, about what McD did 18 months ago?

So before you start casting stones, maybe look at my point of view and wonder why I would say something to the effect that I did.

Fair enough, but at least I'm talking about a guy who is on the team. We've tried to shut down and lock Dragic threads time and time again because this dead horse has been beaten into a pulp by now. I don't even think there is anyone that still wishes Dragic was on our team at this point. If there is, it's only a few people.

And complaining about McD, at least he is our current GM.

You can keep talking about Dragic all you want. I was just commenting on how, to me, it seems that I see you talking about Dragic more than anyone else. Perhaps just my perception.

So, I just replied...AGAIN...to another post about Dragic that I didn't initiate. Is that ok?? Or am I crying about Dragic again?

And yes, McD and Knight are still on the team, but our LAL picks never WERE on the team, and IT has come and gone, yet there is still crying going on about him...

...yet still have not seen a remark by you about other posters still crying about those things, or heck, Sunsdeuce and his 28 point list, or whatever it was, about McD being terrible and yep, he brought up assets long gone in that post as well...

So yes, I do feel a bit like being called out unnecessarily...by a mod, no less, which is my main gripe. You and I are typically on the same wavelength 80% of the time, so I guess another reason why I took it to heart a little bit.

But whatever, I guess, I'll just get the sand out of my vag and grow up...

The post you just replied to, I said...

You can keep talking about Dragic all you want.

Your response

So, I just replied...AGAIN...to another post about Dragic that I didn't initiate. Is that ok??

So again, yes. So maybe 20 different people bring him up and you respond separately to each of them, which, if that is what you want to do, go for it, but I'm pretty sure most that read here with any frequency know your feelings about him.

[bwgood77]

The only FA I could see us getting who would fit the star label is Whiteside.

Have you seen the wiretap up above? The first news headline?

[AtheJ415]

The only FA I could see us getting who would fit the star label is Whiteside.

Have you seen the wiretap up above? The first news headline?

We're not really a losing franchise/team. We competed for the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. This is the first year things have really fallen apart and a lot of that was due to Bledsoe and Knight's injuries. Take the top 2 scorers off of most any team in this league and they would suck. Hell, look at Memphis without Gasol. And Bledsoe was as good/important to us as Gasol to Memphis this year prior to injury.

But like I said, he'll probably prefer other teams. I'm not sure I'd want us to get him either. My preference would be to use FA money next offseason instead of this one. I'd be gunning for Solomon Hill and one of DMO/Jones at cheap prices.