Suns at Grizz

[nerazzurri10]

Actually I think we have a pretty good shot at getting three in arrow against the Knicks on Thursday. They are a bad team coming of a back to back at Denver. Our "tank" odds might get ruined knowing BKN probably losses this week at Toronto.

[nevetsov]

I think you need to include Knight in your Depth Chart; I don't see him going anywhere, anytime soon.

Additionally, may as well put Len at the 4 as well.

Also, before Warren got hurt, he was seeing some time at the 4 as well. So maybe until we 'find' our PF of the future, maybe Watson (or whoever is hired if Watson isn't retained) will decide to play the PF position by committee (Len, Leuer, Telly, Warren, "Rookie").

Probably should have clarified - that wasn't my predicted opening night starting lineup and depth chart. Thought that would have been obvious given Bogdan and the Rook won't be starting off the bat (in all likelihood).

It's more the direction I think our lineup needs tend toward, for us to be a championship contender down the line (with Price and Chandler transitioning out for incoming youth).

If Warren improves his defense though I can definitely see him as our future starting SF, with Bogdan being our Manu-type off the bench.

[bwgood77]

It's tough to claim that Jeff didn't give Len an opportunity, when he started 44 of his 69 games last year. Booker had received minutes under Jeff, a lot more than other rookies have. Also I think injuries had more to do with who Watson has to play.

Oh well, I'm glad they are showing some consistency.

I think big difference between Len playing for Horny versus Watson is Len is now the #1 option. Never was an option under Horny and we all complained about his lack of touches. When Watson started he made Kief the #1 option ... which really helped get that a-hole sent off to Washington. That opened the door for Len. Horny was a guard-centric coach and saw the points and assists coming from Bledsoe and Knight. NIce to see a guard-big man split on both points and assists under Watson with his Len and Booker 1-2 combo.

Horny wanted the guards to make all the decisions on the court. Surprise! They ended up calling #1 about 2/3 of the time. It was apparent that they were reluctant to give Len the ball - no matter who his defender, no matter how good his position. It was maddening. For the record, Dragic looked him off even more predictably than Bled and Knight.

It would be interesting to compare how Watson would have done with Bledsoe and Knight. I don't think it was so much that Hornacek wanted them to jack up a bunch of shots, but that those were their tendencies regardless of that fact. The circumstances are just so much different you can't really compare. I certainly doubt Hornacek told them to take all the shots and limit giving the ball to the centers. It just so happens that when Price and Booker play together ball movement is better all around. Even PJ and Len end up with a good number of assists usually. I think this is more a result of their playing style than who is coach.

But we will have to see if Knight's game changes under Watson, and if so, that will be a very good thing.

[bwgood77]

Regardless of who we draft, I think Len and Telly will have to share PF duties (if we can keep Telly, and if not, then Leuer), because I doubt we hand the reins over to a rookie at the PF position, EVEN IF we do draft Simmons. He'll need some time to adjust to the NBA.

You really think both of these guys will re-sign with us? We will be their first choice out of however many teams are after them with the cap spike? I thought we'd keep Leuer, but when he plays like 9 minutes a game or whatever I am not certain he will be really eager to come back.

I also think someone like the Clippers will really go after Telly...they have been trying to get that true stretch four for awhile. Tried to go after Frye, than Hawes which didn't work, and it seems with Jordan they really do better with a stretch four, but Pierce is a little old at this point.

[RunDogGun]

Love watching the offense go through Booker and Len. Gotta give Watson credit for making the team feature them more which is something Hornacek had ample opportunity to do and didn't. I really wish Warren wasn't hurt as I feel he'd be getting the opportunity he deserves as well. At this point in time I wouldn't mind signing Watson to a short 2 year deal and seeing what he could do with a full year and a healthy team.

It's tough to claim that Jeff didn't give Len an opportunity, when he started 44 of his 69 games last year. Booker had received minutes under Jeff, a lot more than other rookies have. Also I think injuries had more to do with who Watson has to play.

Oh well, I'm glad they are showing some consistency.

I'm not saying Hornacek didn't give Len an opportunity or time. I'm saying that he should have put the offense through him more often especially in a half court set (which we were pretty terrible at the past couple of years). I understand he's still a work in progress and that big's take longer to develop but our two guards (Bledsoe and Knight) would constantly call for the screen which Len would accommodate but then they would roll right to the hoop or curl and take the shot. They rarely gave Len the ball in the post and let him go to work or passes off the pick. I believe Watson said something a couple of weeks ago about how they need to get Len more touches and more involved as a focal point. Since then, he has been playing the best basketball of his short career so far.

He has been very inconsistent, which makes it tough to run the offense through him. He had a 12 fga game the fifth game of the season. He also has been battling injuries, so maybe now he is just healthy? His foul troubles has also hindered his minutes. His post game was up and down. I think with more consistency, we'd run more plays through him, regardless of who is coaching.

[Jarlaxle0204]

I'll concede that he's been inconsistent and at times injured, however I do think the best way to gain more consistency is to continue to get those touches. Either way, I'm happy he's getting them now and looking like he's taking advantage of them.

[LukasBMW]

It's stupid and pointless to be winning games.

But yet when your 22 year old center and 19 year old shooting guard are winning those games for you, there isn't much you can do.

[NavLDO]

Regardless of who we draft, I think Len and Telly will have to share PF duties (if we can keep Telly, and if not, then Leuer), because I doubt we hand the reins over to a rookie at the PF position, EVEN IF we do draft Simmons. He'll need some time to adjust to the NBA.

You really think both of these guys will re-sign with us? We will be their first choice out of however many teams are after them with the cap spike? I thought we'd keep Leuer, but when he plays like 9 minutes a game or whatever I am not certain he will be really eager to come back.

I also think someone like the Clippers will really go after Telly...they have been trying to get that true stretch four for awhile. Tried to go after Frye, than Hawes which didn't work, and it seems with Jordan they really do better with a stretch four, but Pierce is a little old at this point.

Sorry. Should have clarified. Either Telly or Leuer...not both. I think we go after one, and let the other go. I have my personal preference, but seeing as Watson is not giving Leuer much play, I'm not confident he's in our future plans. I like Telly, and he's likely the better player, but he's older and more expensive.

My only hope is that Watson is purposely limiting Leuer's minutes in order to 'hide' him, or limit his earning power. Though by doing that, he certainly isn't 'winning him over', by somewhat 'exiling' him to the bench, is he?

It's entirely possible we lose both in the offseason, which IMO, would be troubling. Somebody will sign here; I'm just fearful on who that will be. I'm not entirely sure why Leuer isn't getting more love, considering how well he's played for us this season:

8.4/5.3 with 38.5% from 3 in 19 MPG. Double that for a per"38" stat line and he's a 17/11 guy.

Looking at his November numbers: 6.5/4.6 with 46.4% (.9 of 2.0) 3FG% in 15.7 minutes...

...and looking at his December numbers: 11.6/6.8 with 39.4% (.8 of 1.9) 3FG%, in 26 minutes...

...and his February numbers: 8.2/4.0 with 44.4% (.7 of 1.5) 3FG% in 13 minutes, which when doubled and compared to the rest of his numbers this season...16.4/8.0 with 44.4% (1.4 of 3.0) in 26 minutes...shows improvement.

So, considering all of this, does anyone here understand why he's seeing such limited minutes, other than the fact that Len is getting more 'burn' at the 4?

[bwgood77]

Regardless of who we draft, I think Len and Telly will have to share PF duties (if we can keep Telly, and if not, then Leuer), because I doubt we hand the reins over to a rookie at the PF position, EVEN IF we do draft Simmons. He'll need some time to adjust to the NBA.

You really think both of these guys will re-sign with us? We will be their first choice out of however many teams are after them with the cap spike? I thought we'd keep Leuer, but when he plays like 9 minutes a game or whatever I am not certain he will be really eager to come back.

I also think someone like the Clippers will really go after Telly...they have been trying to get that true stretch four for awhile. Tried to go after Frye, than Hawes which didn't work, and it seems with Jordan they really do better with a stretch four, but Pierce is a little old at this point.

Sorry. Should have clarified. Either Telly or Leuer...not both. I think we go after one, and let the other go. I have my personal preference, but seeing as Watson is not giving Leuer much play, I'm not confident he's in our future plans. I like Telly, and he's likely the better player, but he's older and more expensive.

My only hope is that Watson is purposely limiting Leuer's minutes in order to 'hide' him, or limit his earning power. Though by doing that, he certainly isn't 'winning him over', by somewhat 'exiling' him to the bench, is he?

It's entirely possible we lose both in the offseason, which IMO, would be troubling. Somebody will sign here; I'm just fearful on who that will be. I'm not entirely sure why Leuer isn't getting more love, considering how well he's played for us this season:

8.4/5.3 with 38.5% from 3 in 19 MPG. Double that for a per"38" stat line and he's a 17/11 guy.

Looking at his November numbers: 6.5/4.6 with 46.4% (.9 of 2.0) 3FG% in 15.7 minutes...

...and looking at his December numbers: 11.6/6.8 with 39.4% (.8 of 1.9) 3FG%, in 26 minutes...

...and his February numbers: 8.2/4.0 with 44.4% (.7 of 1.5) 3FG% in 13 minutes, which when doubled and compared to the rest of his numbers this season...16.4/8.0 with 44.4% (1.4 of 3.0) in 26 minutes...shows improvement.

So, considering all of this, does anyone here understand why he's seeing such limited minutes, other than the fact that Len is getting more 'burn' at the 4?

I don't understand it at all. He looked like a high iq b-ball player when out there to me, who could play inside, outside, hit the 3, defend fairly well, make the right pass, etc. It's been quite perplexing to use him like we have because I wanted to keep him too.

[aIvin adams]

WE ARE STREAKING!!!!

[Matt1979]

You really think both of these guys will re-sign with us? We will be their first choice out of however many teams are after them with the cap spike? I thought we'd keep Leuer, but when he plays like 9 minutes a game or whatever I am not certain he will be really eager to come back.

I also think someone like the Clippers will really go after Telly...they have been trying to get that true stretch four for awhile. Tried to go after Frye, than Hawes which didn't work, and it seems with Jordan they really do better with a stretch four, but Pierce is a little old at this point.

Sorry. Should have clarified. Either Telly or Leuer...not both. I think we go after one, and let the other go. I have my personal preference, but seeing as Watson is not giving Leuer much play, I'm not confident he's in our future plans. I like Telly, and he's likely the better player, but he's older and more expensive.

My only hope is that Watson is purposely limiting Leuer's minutes in order to 'hide' him, or limit his earning power. Though by doing that, he certainly isn't 'winning him over', by somewhat 'exiling' him to the bench, is he?

It's entirely possible we lose both in the offseason, which IMO, would be troubling. Somebody will sign here; I'm just fearful on who that will be. I'm not entirely sure why Leuer isn't getting more love, considering how well he's played for us this season:

8.4/5.3 with 38.5% from 3 in 19 MPG. Double that for a per"38" stat line and he's a 17/11 guy.

Looking at his November numbers: 6.5/4.6 with 46.4% (.9 of 2.0) 3FG% in 15.7 minutes...

...and looking at his December numbers: 11.6/6.8 with 39.4% (.8 of 1.9) 3FG%, in 26 minutes...

...and his February numbers: 8.2/4.0 with 44.4% (.7 of 1.5) 3FG% in 13 minutes, which when doubled and compared to the rest of his numbers this season...16.4/8.0 with 44.4% (1.4 of 3.0) in 26 minutes...shows improvement.

So, considering all of this, does anyone here understand why he's seeing such limited minutes, other than the fact that Len is getting more 'burn' at the 4?

I don't understand it at all. He looked like a high iq b-ball player when out there to me, who could play inside, outside, hit the 3, defend fairly well, make the right pass, etc. It's been quite perplexing to use him like we have because I wanted to keep him too.

I really hope we manage to keep Leuer as he's a really useful player and great from the bench.

I've been surprised he hasn't been used much lately.

[garrick]

Love watching the offense go through Booker and Len. Gotta give Watson credit for making the team feature them more which is something Hornacek had ample opportunity to do and didn't. I really wish Warren wasn't hurt as I feel he'd be getting the opportunity he deserves as well. At this point in time I wouldn't mind signing Watson to a short 2 year deal and seeing what he could do with a full year and a healthy team.

It's tough to claim that Jeff didn't give Len an opportunity, when he started 44 of his 69 games last year. Booker had received minutes under Jeff, a lot more than other rookies have. Also I think injuries had more to do with who Watson has to play.

Oh well, I'm glad they are showing some consistency.

I think big difference between Len playing for Horny versus Watson is Len is now the #1 option. Never was an option under Horny and we all complained about his lack of touches. When Watson started he made Kief the #1 option ... which really helped get that a-hole sent off to Washington. That opened the door for Len. Horny was a guard-centric coach and saw the points and assists coming from Bledsoe and Knight. NIce to see a guard-big man split on both points and assists under Watson with his Len and Booker 1-2 combo.

I don't know if that is all Hornacek's fault and he seemed to allude to the fact that the team wasn't making the right plays which I assume was directed at Knight and Bledsoe.

Booker looks really good throwing lobs to Chandler for dunks something that neither our star PG's could seem to do very well.

[AtheJ415]

Whiteside is the exact opposite of Chandler mentally. No thanks to another headcase.

Sorry, but if you think Chandler is better for this team, you're out of your mind. I'm not sure I want Whiteside either, but if you have to choose between him and Whiteside, it isn't even close. One used to be a great defensive player and a middling offensive player. One is that today. Chandler's mentality has been here all year, and all he's done is rave about how mature and eager to learn everybody is, while watching us have the most disappointing team in franchise history which he was a huge part of. His underperformance is as big a reason as any for our season. Give me the great player who doesn't work hard over the awful player who busts his ass. If anything, it just shows the potential the guy who doesn't practice as hard has.

It's very hard to gauge the influence of bad characters on a team. It's not measurable or quantifiable, but it has a big impact for sure. The difference between the Suns pre-and-after Deadline is a small sample, but a highlight. I remember the Pistons rejoicing when Iverson left the team, for example - although that was their last playoff appearance.
Point is, the equation is not just talent over talent, like you seemed to mean when comparing Whiteside over Chandler.

I'm not saying it's only talent. I'm just saying that talent is a part of the equation, and we're not talking about fairly similar players here--we're talking about a person who puts up absolutely monstrous numbers against an old guy who is putting up decade-long lows in most every category and has proven to not be able to lead our team to anything but awfulness in his brief stint here. One is a budding star, the other is at best a solid backup. I'd understand if the salaries are massively different, but Tyson's getting $13 mil a year.

[AtheJ415]

It's tough to claim that Jeff didn't give Len an opportunity, when he started 44 of his 69 games last year. Booker had received minutes under Jeff, a lot more than other rookies have. Also I think injuries had more to do with who Watson has to play.

Oh well, I'm glad they are showing some consistency.

I think big difference between Len playing for Horny versus Watson is Len is now the #1 option. Never was an option under Horny and we all complained about his lack of touches. When Watson started he made Kief the #1 option ... which really helped get that a-hole sent off to Washington. That opened the door for Len. Horny was a guard-centric coach and saw the points and assists coming from Bledsoe and Knight. NIce to see a guard-big man split on both points and assists under Watson with his Len and Booker 1-2 combo.

I don't know if that is all Hornacek's fault and he seemed to allude to the fact that the team wasn't making the right plays which I assume was directed at Knight and Bledsoe.

Booker looks really good throwing lobs to Chandler for dunks something that neither our star PG's could seem to do very well.

I don't think it's that simple. I mean, Markieff played noticeably better the second Hornacek left. Len is too now. I think only really Mirza and maybe Leuer played better under Jeff. His rotations made it difficult to execute what he wanted imo.

[bwgood77]

So Conley is out tonight, and no-offense Tony Allen is back to go 11-16 for 26 pts so far as the Grizz are neck and neck with the Cavs as time winds down.

[saintEscaton]

So Conley is out tonight, and no-offense Tony Allen is back to go 11-16 for 26 pts so far as the Grizz are neck and neck with the Cavs as time winds down.

Grizz prevail. So this means we would be a shoo in to make the Finals if we were in the Eastern Conference by virtue of opponent