Ben Simmons

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HotelVitale
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1121 » by HotelVitale » Tue Mar 8, 2016 9:44 pm

Brapman wrote:
crazy_me_87 wrote: I think people forget we are judging a 19yo Kid here... a Freshman...Kawhi Leonard shot 25% on 2 attemps from three in college... Draymond Green had no 3pt Shot until his 3rd college year..!Jason Kidd only became Jason Kidd once he turned 30.. Most people get ALOT better in shooting once they have a few years in the NBA.. hell even a guy like Rondo shoots over 30% from three now...
Many people do get a lot better, but "most" is overestimating that. I also am repeating the argument that Simmons shooting with his non-dominant hand is a neurological weakness for him...

Right, whether or not you're sold on Simmons, all of us should make a serious effort to be realistic about his and other guys' potential flaws.

Some players dramatically improve their shooting but many fail to improve much at all. Citing either extreme as evidence for a guy failing or succeeding isn't convincing, and it makes for another dull post where you're plugging up your ears and humming to yourself. If a guy absolutely cannot do something right now (like Simmons' shooting, or some raw big man's skill game), you don't have any choice but to factor that in to your projection of him. That doesn't mean you can't imagine him hitting shot at some point, it means that you have to give at least a chance (maybe 40-50% for Simmons?) that he won't be making shots consistently enough to be a threat for 4-5 years in the NBA. That has to go in your projection if there's going to be some semblance of fairness.

(Also, crazy me, I don't get the argument about J Kidd--are you saying it's no problem as long Simmons develops an average shot when he's 30? Seems like the team drafting him won't be happy they have to wait a decade+ for average! Also, Kidd's peak clearly started when he was about 25, and he wasn't a markedly better shooter when he was 25 vs 35 years old (save two years when he was on the best Mavs' teams, he was a 33-37% shooter almost every year of his entire career).)
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1122 » by crazy_me_87 » Tue Mar 8, 2016 9:45 pm

Brapman wrote:
Most people get ALOT better in shooting once they have a few years in the NBA.

I also am repeating the argument that Simmons shooting with his non-dominant hand is a neurological weakness for him - in that one will always have more control and ability with your dominant hand and arm. .


Huh? He is not a Lefty.. he is Ambidexterous..
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1123 » by Brapman » Tue Mar 8, 2016 10:43 pm

He's right hand dominant, and he uses both hands.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1124 » by nurseryc » Wed Mar 9, 2016 12:46 pm

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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1125 » by Agnostifarian » Wed Mar 9, 2016 2:13 pm

nurseryc wrote:Simmons this week named the USA TODAY Sports college basketball Freshman of the Year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2016/03/08/usa-today-sports-college-basketball-freshman-of-year-ben-simmons-lsu-tigers/81449110/


Will you get a raise when Ben Simmons signs his sneaker deal?
“This may be one of the best jobs in basketball right now,” Colangelo said at a press conference introducing him as the new GM of the 76ers after Sam Hinkie resigned.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1126 » by crazy_me_87 » Wed Mar 9, 2016 4:24 pm

Agnostifarian wrote:
nurseryc wrote:Simmons this week named the USA TODAY Sports college basketball Freshman of the Year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2016/03/08/usa-today-sports-college-basketball-freshman-of-year-ben-simmons-lsu-tigers/81449110/


Will you get a raise when Ben Simmons signs his sneaker deal?


so anyone who really likes Ben and thinks he is a HOF type prospect is getting paid to say so?
damn if i only knew^^

:nonono:

Neither that his Team didnt make the tournament nor his Academical issues take ANYTHING away from that he just had one of the best Freshman years EVER. Look for Freshman that did 19/11/5.. you wont find one other than Ben. Look for Freshman over 6'10 who averaged 5apg.. you wont find any..

He has his flaws.. shooting and looking for his own scoring mainly.. But he still is a great Prospect.
If 21yo Giannis can do 19/11/8 over a pretty long stretch now.. I have No reason to believe Ben who is stronger.. cant be a 17/8/4-5 guy as a rookie.
Sure everybody LOVES Shooting right now but look at Gianis,Parker,Griffin etc.. you still can be a 20ppg scorer without a 3pt Shot. Ben will NOT be Lebron.. never average 31ppg.. maybe never even 25ppg.. But that doesnt mean he will SUCK.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1127 » by Justwar » Wed Mar 9, 2016 5:06 pm

If he played on a good team I'd be more impressed. He's a stat padder.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1128 » by Agnostifarian » Wed Mar 9, 2016 5:15 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
nurseryc wrote:Simmons this week named the USA TODAY Sports college basketball Freshman of the Year

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2016/03/08/usa-today-sports-college-basketball-freshman-of-year-ben-simmons-lsu-tigers/81449110/


Will you get a raise when Ben Simmons signs his sneaker deal?


so anyone who really likes Ben and thinks he is a HOF type prospect is getting paid to say so?
damn if i only knew^^

:nonono:

Neither that his Team didnt make the tournament nor his Academical issues take ANYTHING away from that he just had one of the best Freshman years EVER. Look for Freshman that did 19/11/5.. you wont find one other than Ben. Look for Freshman over 6'10 who averaged 5apg.. you wont find any..

He has his flaws.. shooting and looking for his own scoring mainly.. But he still is a great Prospect.
If 21yo Giannis can do 19/11/8 over a pretty long stretch now.. I have No reason to believe Ben who is stronger.. cant be a 17/8/4-5 guy as a rookie.
Sure everybody LOVES Shooting right now but look at Gianis,Parker,Griffin etc.. you still can be a 20ppg scorer without a 3pt Shot. Ben will NOT be Lebron.. never average 31ppg.. maybe never even 25ppg.. But that doesnt mean he will SUCK.


I never said he would suck. I think he is a tremendous prospect but it takes a leap of faith to put him in HOF. I'm not taking the leap.
“This may be one of the best jobs in basketball right now,” Colangelo said at a press conference introducing him as the new GM of the 76ers after Sam Hinkie resigned.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1129 » by Brapman » Wed Mar 9, 2016 7:13 pm

It's not just 3 pt shooting - it's mid-range shooting as well.

Hey, if he makes those leaps/those improvements, he's one hell of a prospect. If he doesn't, I wouldn't want him paid like one of the top 3 players on my team.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1130 » by mj23z » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:11 am

Justwar wrote:If he played on a good team I'd be more impressed. He's a stat padder.


This is why you're not a NBA scout and instead spend all day posting on realgm.

As a long time NBA scout was quoted as saying last week:
"he’s stuck on an immature team. He isn’t used the right way. His team isn't very good. I’d get frustrated too. He’s going to be fine.”

Let's be honest Jones has no clue what he's doing. Not only does he not know how to use Ben properly, but he also is not developing him properly. If you watched LSU's training Jones has Ben working mostly on his rebounding and ball handling, which are already his strengths. Instead of working on his weaknesses such as his shooting.

Get him in a good system with a good coach and good team mates and he will flourish. Anyone that thinks he will not go #1 is kidding themselves.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1131 » by Brapman » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:51 pm

Nonsense = saying any player doesn't work on his shooting.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1132 » by gothehornets » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:29 pm

So would people be more happy if ben simmons shot 40 percent from the field and shot a bunch of times?
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1133 » by Pipp33 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:08 am

mj23z wrote:
Justwar wrote:If he played on a good team I'd be more impressed. He's a stat padder.


This is why you're not a NBA scout and instead spend all day posting on realgm.

As a long time NBA scout was quoted as saying last week:
"he’s stuck on an immature team. He isn’t used the right way. His team isn't very good. I’d get frustrated too. He’s going to be fine.”

Let's be honest Jones has no clue what he's doing. Not only does he not know how to use Ben properly, but he also is not developing him properly. If you watched LSU's training Jones has Ben working mostly on his rebounding and ball handling, which are already his strengths. Instead of working on his weaknesses such as his shooting.

Get him in a good system with a good coach and good team mates and he will flourish. Anyone that thinks he will not go #1 is kidding themselves.


Exactly!!! Ben's biggest error has been choosing to go to LSU. I understand the connections to his God father etc, but this team and head coach have failed him. They had an opportunity that doesn't come their way very often and they blew it. Jones has NO IDEA what he is doing when it comes to Simmons. I've watched most of their games this season and very little is run for him and I've seen team mates completely ignore him, unmarked, in the paint, to jack up an outside contested shot.

He absolutely needs work and he's not the next LBJ, but this kid will be very good.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1134 » by splendidham » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:55 am

I found this quite interesting from the following article http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4697748-freshman-of-the-year-sporting-news-college-basketball-ben-simmons

"Although Jones insists Simmons has been embraced by his teammates, it has been apparent to those who’ve observed the team that at times the other Tigers have been fighting against the attention accorded Simmons. Eight players have taken at least 100 shots. Have they looked like a team with that degree of depth? Michigan State has six. Kansas has five. Villanova has seven. Only North Carolina, which clearly does have that kind of depth, matched the Tigers."




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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1135 » by crazy_me_87 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:18 am

gothehornets wrote:So would people be more happy if ben simmons shot 40 percent from the field and shot a bunch of times?


Yes I think they would.
They would scream all the same "his shooting is bad" but at least they would see he can make a jumper from time to time.

Ben did shoot in Highschool and did so pretty much the same %ages as Lebron did in Highschool. At LSU he was forced to be a Post Player wich is partly understandable because he is so tall and strong he just overpowers Most College PFs

But look at Bens Highschool clips.. he can absolutly create a jumpshot of the dribble and also hit them.
He was never asked to shoot at LSU.. The Coaching staff never worked on his shooting with Ben...

People misunderstand a guy who does not shoot with a guy who absolutly CAN not shoot. Once he gets to work with a decent Training staff .. get a shooting Coach.. and focus on shooting he will become a adequate shooter maybe sooner than people think.

His shot is NOT Broken.. he actually has a decent form that only needs some fine tuning and then it is about shooting 1000 Shots a day to get consistent.

Dont get me wrong i dont think he will ever be a good shooter. But he does not need to be. If he can become like Blake,Giannis etc.. Point Forwards who have a solid Mid Range shot... that will be enough. Anything beyond a solid MId Range Shot would mean the NBA is in big trouble..
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1136 » by crazy_me_87 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:29 am

Brapman wrote:Nonsense = saying any player doesn't work on his shooting.


Pretty much.. Guys only look at the outliers like Rubio who seemingly never get better..
But how many countless guys have become incredibly better from College to NBA at shooting.. you cant count them.. Hell even MKG with his horrible Shootin Form has a decent Mid range Game now!!

Also people need to understand alot of players dont improve fast on shooting because they have many other things to work on while their 19yo..

Ben on the other hand is already so good at Transition Play,Rebounding,Playmaking/Passing,Getting to the Basket/Foul line..
He will be able to totally focus on his one weakness his shooting.. ALL THE TIME. He does not need to work on anything else.

And Despite his distractors trying to say he has charakter issues because he had trouble in Classes... i think his On Court drive and especially his will to be a great Players is totally clear.

So i will asume a strong work ethic.. he will work his ass off improving his shot. Sooner or later he will be an at least average Mid Range Shooter and maybe even shoot 30-33% from three on just a few attemps per game just to keep defenses Honest.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1137 » by Brapman » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:39 pm

Maybe. Unicorns.

Right now: He. Can't. Shoot.

So he doesn't. This is a massive problem. Maybe he gets a lot bettet. Maybe he doesn't.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1138 » by crazy_me_87 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:46 pm

@Brapman

I think it just shows the different ways to think.. i am a total optimist and am assuming Ben will become a decent shooter and max his Potential.

And i think further the point is.. it does not really matter.. Ingram has regressed lately and shown a real problem with Shot creation and consistency.. Given how young and raw he is i can totally forgive that but the problem here is..

Even if Ben never becomes a good shooter.. well so what? look at what Giannis is doing right now as a 6'11 Point Guard ...he rarley shoots and still averages 20ppg for almost 20 Games now. Is at 20/11/8 over his last ten and 22/8/8 over his last 5.

It is a total myth that you desperatly need to be able to shoot to have any kind of sucsess in this League.. yes i know.. Curry and GSW are the trend now and everybody LOVES shooting at the moment.. But i think Ben can be so good at the things he already does well to be a 16/7/4 guy like Giannis..propably in his Rookie year.

Ingram on the other hand has not that much to offer if he cannot learn how to be a great 1v1 Scorer.. he MIGHT learn that as Ben MIGHT learn to shoot.. but if he does not.. he has much less to offer then Ben. Ingram could very well end up beeing a slightly better Tayshaun Prince(great defender,solid scorer and allrounder) ... Ben without a jumper is still a stronger but shorter(Wingspan) Giannis.. and Giannis is dominating on an individual level right now.

So the clear Contender for No1 Pick Ingram has a much lower floor then Ben IF they cant fix their Problems
Ben as he is NOW is likley still a multiple All Star and maybe low level HOFmer

If Ben can learn how to shoot he has All Time Top 20-30 Potential.. No other Prospect can offer that this year.. so it wont matter
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1139 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:33 pm

crazy_me_87 wrote:
Brapman wrote:Nonsense = saying any player doesn't work on his shooting.


Pretty much.. Guys only look at the outliers like Rubio who seemingly never get better..
But how many countless guys have become incredibly better from College to NBA at shooting.. you cant count them.. Hell even MKG with his horrible Shootin Form has a decent Mid range Game now!!



This doesn't make any sense...players like Rubio are the norm not the exception. And really, MKG is your best example? He's still not a shooter...being able to hit a decent amount of open mid range shots on low volume is hardly indicative of anything other than he improved (and for a small forward, that is still bad). Improvement =\ becoming a threat as a shooter, which Simmons needs to be if he wants his style to work properly.
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Re: Ben Simmons 

Post#1140 » by crazy_me_87 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:22 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
crazy_me_87 wrote:
Brapman wrote:Nonsense = saying any player doesn't work on his shooting.


Pretty much.. Guys only look at the outliers like Rubio who seemingly never get better..
But how many countless guys have become incredibly better from College to NBA at shooting.. you cant count them.. Hell even MKG with his horrible Shootin Form has a decent Mid range Game now!!



This doesn't make any sense...players like Rubio are the norm not the exception. And really, MKG is your best example? He's still not a shooter...being able to hit a decent amount of open mid range shots on low volume is hardly indicative of anything other than he improved (and for a small forward, that is still bad). Improvement =\ becoming a threat as a shooter, which Simmons needs to be if he wants his style to work properly.


Are you watching the same NBA as i am?

Players like Rubio are the norm? I highly doubt that... There are alot more players improving at shooting then people who never even improve a bit.
Hell even a guy like Rondo hits over 30% of his threes now..

My MKG example was ment to show that even a guy with a totally broken jumpshot can still become better at shooting: my Point.. When a guy with a broken Jumper like MKG can get better(does not matter if he is still below average he was a total non shooter before so even sub par shooting is better then no shooting at all) why should i expect Ben who has a mechanically fine Jumper and is working on his shot everyday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEFygilo3Sw can't`?

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