Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[Ruzious]

Ernie Grunfeld drops draft picks as flippantly as KLove drops dimes in the State Farm commercial...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmyxOGG11jc[/youtube]

Who knew that kid brothers Baby Dame Lillard and Kevin Love would become a hip-hop sensation? Not their father, Chris Paul.

[jarlmaster47]

Ernie Grunfeld is a fine GM. I don't understand the hate. Sure he's an **** but he gets the job done. He has built a competitive roster around John Wall and is definitely a big part of the turnaround from laughing stock to serious contender (though Wittman holds us back from being AS serious as we could be).

Grunfeld brought in smart, savvy vets to help out Wall starting in 2013-2014 mainly. The okafor for Gortat trade... brilliant. Trevor Ariza pickup. Brilliant. Remember when we got Nene? That was great. We drafted Beal who is immensely talented but is soft as a baby's butt... bummer. We drafted porter who was a killer 2 way utility player but he got hurt in the rookie offseason and developed slower than he should have thanks to wittman. I'm glad we didn't get excited and trade Beal for Harden. Harden is a defensive liability and not a great team player (though he has gotten better). Wall and Beal have excellent chemistry and why would you break that up; keep in mind this is before we knew that Beal loves to get stress reactions. Drew Gooden and Al Harrington were nice for spot minutes and mentored our youngsters. We had a nice talent in Martell Webster who broke his back and fell off the earth.

Ok 2014-2015. We get paul pierce and we barely miss Ariza. Pierce gave us so much veteran smarts, was mr. clutch, and helped make porter and beal more aggressive. We had Andre miller, who was steady off the bench, but traded him for sessions who has been phenomenal. Easily the best backup PG in the league the way he's been playing.

2015-2016. A quiet offseason but one where we simultaneously picked up three solid shooters/scorers who would work for our new pace and space scheme. Anderson was hurt, Neal turned out to be a sissy with his injuries, and Dudley has really been good to great for us. We drafted Oubre, who has tons of raw potential and is an athletic freak. He will be good if Wittman ever lets him develop. Then we picked up Morris mid year for Humphries (injured most of the year but was serviceable... sometimes) and Dejuan Blair who just didn't pan out. That draft pick we gave the Suns? Meh. Draft picks aren't all that valuable in the NBA (at least compared to the NFL) and this draft isn't particularly strong anyway. Markieff Morris is worth all that and then some. He's extremely talented, a complete player, and he's young. He is just what we needed.

Grunfeld has had his fair share of mistakes and failures. Kwame Brown (highly touted, didn't work out), Nick Young (complete disaster), Javale McGee (highly touted, didn't work out), Jan Vesely (highly touted, didn't work out). Some people blame him for not getting Curry (we had Wall) or Thompson (we had Beal plus Thompson was unknown). Grunfeld has created a solid roster that has led us to two trips to the second round of the playoffs (one of which should have had us in the ECF). He's smart and came in with a plan to build a team around Wall and that has payed off. So tell me.... how is Grunfeld bad? Maybe Wittman wasn't the best choice of coach (though he did turn us around) but aside from that I don't see how people hate on the guy.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Ernie Grunfeld is a fine GM. I don't understand the hate. Sure he's an **** but he gets the job done. He has built a competitive roster around John Wall and is definitely a big part of the turnaround from laughing stock to serious contender (though Wittman holds us back from being AS serious as we could be).

Grunfeld brought in smart, savvy vets to help out Wall starting in 2013-2014 mainly. The okafor for Gortat trade... brilliant. Trevor Ariza pickup. Brilliant. Remember when we got Nene? That was great. We drafted Beal who is immensely talented but is soft as a baby's butt... bummer. We drafted porter who was a killer 2 way utility player but he got hurt in the rookie offseason and developed slower than he should have thanks to wittman. I'm glad we didn't get excited and trade Beal for Harden. Harden is a defensive liability and not a great team player (though he has gotten better). Wall and Beal have excellent chemistry and why would you break that up; keep in mind this is before we knew that Beal loves to get stress reactions. Drew Gooden and Al Harrington were nice for spot minutes and mentored our youngsters. We had a nice talent in Martell Webster who broke his back and fell off the earth.

Ok 2014-2015. We get paul pierce and we barely miss Ariza. Pierce gave us so much veteran smarts, was mr. clutch, and helped make porter and beal more aggressive. We had Andre miller, who was steady off the bench, but traded him for sessions who has been phenomenal. Easily the best backup PG in the league the way he's been playing.

2015-2016. A quiet offseason but one where we simultaneously picked up three solid shooters/scorers who would work for our new pace and space scheme. Anderson was hurt, Neal turned out to be a sissy with his injuries, and Dudley has really been good to great for us. We drafted Oubre, who has tons of raw potential and is an athletic freak. He will be good if Wittman ever lets him develop. Then we picked up Morris mid year for Humphries (injured most of the year but was serviceable... sometimes) and Dejuan Blair who just didn't pan out. That draft pick we gave the Suns? Meh. Draft picks aren't all that valuable in the NBA (at least compared to the NFL) and this draft isn't particularly strong anyway. Markieff Morris is worth all that and then some. He's extremely talented, a complete player, and he's young. He is just what we needed.

Grunfeld has had his fair share of mistakes and failures. Kwame Brown (highly touted, didn't work out), Nick Young (complete disaster), Javale McGee (highly touted, didn't work out), Jan Vesely (highly touted, didn't work out).

Some people blame him for not getting Curry (we had Wall)

or Thompson (we had Beal plus Thompson was unknown). Grunfeld has created a solid roster that has led us to two trips to the second round of the playoffs (one of which should have had us in the ECF). He's smart and came in with a plan to build a team around Wall and that has payed off. So tell me.... how is Grunfeld bad? Maybe Wittman wasn't the best choice of coach (though he did turn us around) but aside from that I don't see how people hate on the guy.

You know you're a frickin idiot, right? Go away and stop creating troll accounts!

[jarlmaster47]

How am I troll? Everything I said has made sense. Lol instead of debating and responding to my comments you call me an idiot and attack me personally? Sounds like you don't have a rebuttal. You aren't going to get me to leave this forum by being nasty just so you know.

[McFilthy]

Grunfeld hired Wittman. I am not Wittman's #1 fan, but don't consider him the Wizards biggest problem. For more of Ernie Grunfeld's basketball atrocities, please read pages 1-21 of this thread and this one two:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1300444&p=45102557#p45102557

I will not blame Grunfeld for Kwame Brown, that was Michael Jordan's mistake.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

How am I troll? Everything I said has made sense. Lol instead of debating and responding to my comments you call me an idiot and attack me personally? Sounds like you don't have a rebuttal. You aren't going to get me to leave this forum by being nasty just so you know.

Curry was drafted a year before Wall, so no, we didn't already have Wall. I'm not gonna bother refuting your other points...just going straight to the ignore list where you belong.

[queridiculo]

So glad these ballboys are around to lecture us on how misguided the criticism of Grunfeld is.

Contenders , I admire your naiveté.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Ernie Grunfeld is a fine GM. I don't understand the hate. Sure he's an **** but he gets the job done. He has built a competitive roster around John Wall and is definitely a big part of the turnaround from laughing stock to serious contender (though Wittman holds us back from being AS serious as we could be).

Grunfeld brought in smart, savvy vets to help out Wall starting in 2013-2014 mainly. The okafor for Gortat trade... brilliant. Trevor Ariza pickup. Brilliant. Remember when we got Nene? That was great. We drafted Beal who is immensely talented but is soft as a baby's butt... bummer. We drafted porter who was a killer 2 way utility player but he got hurt in the rookie offseason and developed slower than he should have thanks to wittman. I'm glad we didn't get excited and trade Beal for Harden. Harden is a defensive liability and not a great team player (though he has gotten better). Wall and Beal have excellent chemistry and why would you break that up; keep in mind this is before we knew that Beal loves to get stress reactions. Drew Gooden and Al Harrington were nice for spot minutes and mentored our youngsters. We had a nice talent in Martell Webster who broke his back and fell off the earth.

Ok 2014-2015. We get paul pierce and we barely miss Ariza. Pierce gave us so much veteran smarts, was mr. clutch, and helped make porter and beal more aggressive. We had Andre miller, who was steady off the bench, but traded him for sessions who has been phenomenal. Easily the best backup PG in the league the way he's been playing.

2015-2016. A quiet offseason but one where we simultaneously picked up three solid shooters/scorers who would work for our new pace and space scheme. Anderson was hurt, Neal turned out to be a sissy with his injuries, and Dudley has really been good to great for us. We drafted Oubre, who has tons of raw potential and is an athletic freak. He will be good if Wittman ever lets him develop. Then we picked up Morris mid year for Humphries (injured most of the year but was serviceable... sometimes) and Dejuan Blair who just didn't pan out. That draft pick we gave the Suns? Meh. Draft picks aren't all that valuable in the NBA (at least compared to the NFL) and this draft isn't particularly strong anyway. Markieff Morris is worth all that and then some. He's extremely talented, a complete player, and he's young. He is just what we needed.

Grunfeld has had his fair share of mistakes and failures. Kwame Brown (highly touted, didn't work out), Nick Young (complete disaster), Javale McGee (highly touted, didn't work out), Jan Vesely (highly touted, didn't work out). Some people blame him for not getting Curry (we had Wall) or Thompson (we had Beal plus Thompson was unknown). Grunfeld has created a solid roster that has led us to two trips to the second round of the playoffs (one of which should have had us in the ECF). He's smart and came in with a plan to build a team around Wall and that has payed off. So tell me.... how is Grunfeld bad? Maybe Wittman wasn't the best choice of coach (though he did turn us around) but aside from that I don't see how people hate on the guy.

Holy crap do you need a factchecker.

Welcome to the boards, by the way.

[closg00]

Millie's troll account gets a welcome?

[MikeTheKid]

Some people blame him for not getting Curry (we had Wall) or Thompson (we had Beal plus Thompson was unknown)

This statement proves your a shill Troll for EG. Curry was drafted in 09 when Ernie traded the 5th pick for Foye and Miller (ANother brilliant trade ), Wall was drafted in 2010. Thompson was drafted in the lottery at #11 in 2011 and his stock skyrocketed at the NBA Combine in 2011 so how the hell was he an unknown. Beal was drafted in 2012 1 year after Klay Troll.

Get your facts straight and try harder next time!!!

Welcome to the Board!!!

[jarlmaster47]

Grunfeld hired Wittman. I am not Wittman's #1 fan, but don't consider him the Wizards biggest problem. For more of Ernie Grunfeld's basketball atrocities, please read pages 1-21 of this thread and this one two:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1300444&p=45102557#p45102557

I will not blame Grunfeld for Kwame Brown, that was Michael Jordan's mistake.

THANK YOU. Finally I have some stuff to read and learn up on. Ok I didn't know that we have the third worst record since EG got here. I remember the days of Arenas and us making the playoffs yearly only to fall to the Cavs. Then we sucked for several years and during that span Grunfeld was GOD AWFUL (no arguments there). I admit that I only really got into sports 4-5 years ago. I would always watch the skins but I didn't watch as much wizards growing up. Now I'm up to speed and invested. I know a good portion of the backdrop but not all of it. I agree with points made. Grunfeld did make many many errors between 08-13. Squandered draft picks, wasted trades, misuse of cap space. I get that. But this is now. I don't agree with your (this forum's) assessment of the Gortat/Ariza trade. We got rid of Okafor (who had a bad neck and hasn't played since he last played with us) for a top center and a great swingman. Gortat excels in our offense and works extremely well with Wall. Ariza replaced by Pierce, then Porter has stepped in as explained before. Oubre draft good. Morris trade great. Etc etc. Now I have to rephrase my assertion about Ernie. I CAN understand the hate when considering everything in the past coupled with the new information I learned. I guess I was more referring to Ernie not being a problem currently, as the last few years he has done a good job and I have no qualms with it. So is EG a good GM overall. Probably not. But he's better now and I don't believe he is the problem. Firing the guy who put together the best roster the wizards have had in years is stupid. So ignoring the past and focusing on the present, let's discuss EG in a friendly, non-aggressive manner. Attacking people for their opinions is unneeded. With that let's move forward. Sorry if you thought I was trolling but I'm not.

[jarlmaster47]

Some people blame him for not getting Curry (we had Wall) or Thompson (we had Beal plus Thompson was unknown)

This statement proves your a shill Troll for EG. Curry was drafted in 09 when Ernie traded the 5th pick for Foye and Miller (ANother brilliant trade ), Wall was drafted in 2010. Thompson was drafted in the lottery at #11 in 2011 and his stock skyrocketed at the NBA Combine in 2011 so how the hell was he an unknown. Beal was drafted in 2012 1 year after Klay Troll.

Get your facts straight and try harder next time!!!

Welcome to the Board!!!

I had some facts wrong. Sorry. Instead of harassing me about being a troll maybe understand that people don't always know everything and make mistakes. So my bad. We didn't get curry in 09. Darn. As for Klay again sorry. Didn't know. This is why I'm here. To discuss sports and learn. We have all gotten off on the wrong foot. Let's chill out, be constructive, and discuss things civilly.

[closg00]

This actually sounds more like Hands11 than Millie, not that it matters much.

[TheSecretWeapon]

This actually sounds more like Hands11 than Millie, not that it matters much.

If it's one of the two, it'd be millie. hands wouldn't get a basic fact like that wrong. Every bit of his analysis would be off the mark, but that's the kind of fact hands would know cold.

This could be millie. To me, jarl feels more like an enthusiastic kid who just stumbled across the site. We'll see.

[jarlmaster47]

I'm a 23 year old vet student who is from Washington DC and enjoys talking/watching sports.... lol. I'm enthusiastic I suppose because I like to analyze and discuss the things I'm interested in.

[closg00]

This actually sounds more like Hands11 than Millie, not that it matters much.

If it's one of the two, it'd be millie. hands wouldn't get a basic fact like that wrong. Every bit of his analysis would be off the mark, but that's the kind of fact hands would know cold.

This could be millie. To me, jarl feels more like an enthusiastic kid who just stumbled across the site. We'll see.

When he wrote this, it was a dead give-away that it is Millie/Hands (coin-flip, probably Millie but definitely one of them)

Ihope we can discuss this and I also want to discuss why only Wittman and his staff need to go and NOT Grunfeld.

[jarlmaster47]

Come on man. I can't have the opinion that Grunfeld doesn't need to go? Irrespective of his past mistakes, since the 2013-2014 season, Grunfeld has made some great roster changes and trades that got us to two straight playoff appearances and what could still be/should have been a third (assuming we don't make the playoffs). That's a valid statement and opinion. Why get rid of what's working and I stress what's been working RECENTLY.

[payitforward]

That draft pick we gave the Suns? Meh. Draft picks aren't all that valuable in the NBA (at least compared to the NFL) and this draft isn't particularly strong anyway. Markieff Morris is worth all that and then some. He's extremely talented, a complete player, and he's young. He is just what we needed. ..

Ok... you don't want to be called a troll, and I don't think you are one. (tho you are certainly ignorant, as you've shown -- Grunfeld picked Kwame Brown? Then again, I kind of think you are funny too -- Grunfeld picked Kwame Brown!! )

So, I've picked one little piece of your long post of inaccuracies. Lets hear you defend it.

1. "Draft picks aren't all that valuable in the NBA (at least compared to the NFL)." Actually I think it'd be kind of easy to show that the opposite is true. I.e. that draft picks are *more* valuable in the NBA than in the NFL, largely because there are so few of them. And because of the rookie pay scale which makes a draft pick's first contract one of the only true bargains in the league (along w/ the enormous contracts of true superstars, btw, as the other bargain).

So... defend the statement please -- and not by repeating it in different terms.

2. "Markieff Morris is... extremely talented, a complete player, and he's young. He is just what we needed." -- Now, there is no need for you to defend the idea that an extremely talented, complete player who's young would be just what we needed! Sure! You also don't have to prove Markieff is young!

Just tell us what it is about Markieff Morris -- what he has ever done -- makes you think he's "extremely talented, a complete player" (oh, and define what you mean by "complete" and tell us how it applies).

Please do this while slowing down the rhetoric. Just stick to his skills and accomplishments and how they are demonstrated in his history. You can leave out all the "bad actor" stuff, btw -- I'm sure he's a nice kid.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Come on man. I can't have the opinion that Grunfeld doesn't need to go? Irrespective of his past mistakes, since the 2013-2014 season, Grunfeld has made some great roster changes and trades that got us to two straight playoff appearances and what could still be/should have been a third (assuming we don't make the playoffs). That's a valid statement and opinion. Why get rid of what's working and I stress what's been working RECENTLY.

You can have any opinion you want. But no, Grunfeld hasn't made great roster changes. He's spent the team's player acquisition resources (including dipping into future assets by twice trading 1st round picks) and built a thoroughly mediocre roster. He's carefully cleared cap room for a time period in which roughly the league will be adding $40 million in cap space per team over the next two seasons. And, the Wizards haven't been "good." They've been average in an historically weak conference. This year, the conference got a little stronger, and the Wizards have been a little worse than average.

[ozthegap]

Grunfeld hired Wittman. I am not Wittman's #1 fan, but don't consider him the Wizards biggest problem. For more of Ernie Grunfeld's basketball atrocities, please read pages 1-21 of this thread and this one two:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1300444&p=45102557#p45102557

I will not blame Grunfeld for Kwame Brown, that was Michael Jordan's mistake.

THANK YOU. Finally I have some stuff to read and learn up on. Ok I didn't know that we have the third worst record since EG got here. I remember the days of Arenas and us making the playoffs yearly only to fall to the Cavs. Then we sucked for several years and during that span Grunfeld was GOD AWFUL (no arguments there). I admit that I only really got into sports 4-5 years ago. I would always watch the skins but I didn't watch as much wizards growing up. Now I'm up to speed and invested. I know a good portion of the backdrop but not all of it. I agree with points made. Grunfeld did make many many errors between 08-13. Squandered draft picks, wasted trades, misuse of cap space. I get that. But this is now. I don't agree with your (this forum's) assessment of the Gortat/Ariza trade. We got rid of Okafor (who had a bad neck and hasn't played since he last played with us) for a top center and a great swingman. Gortat excels in our offense and works extremely well with Wall. Ariza replaced by Pierce, then Porter has stepped in as explained before. Oubre draft good. Morris trade great. Etc etc. Now I have to rephrase my assertion about Ernie. I CAN understand the hate when considering everything in the past coupled with the new information I learned. I guess I was more referring to Ernie not being a problem currently, as the last few years he has done a good job and I have no qualms with it. So is EG a good GM overall. Probably not. But he's better now and I don't believe he is the problem. Firing the guy who put together the best roster the wizards have had in years is stupid. So ignoring the past and focusing on the present, let's discuss EG in a friendly, non-aggressive manner. Attacking people for their opinions is unneeded. With that let's move forward. Sorry if you thought I was trolling but I'm not.

Umm I think you still have a couple of things mixed up. We got Okafur and Ariza the year before we got Gortat from Charlotte (who are now better than us). We surrendered assets (cant remeber exactly what) for Ariza who we should have held on to instead of webster and an injury prone okafur. Okafur lasted one year before he fell to an inevitab reoccurring spinal injury. This forced us to make an emergency trade surrendering our draft pick to save Ernie's ass. Then we overpayed Webster, another guy with a history of back injuries, which caused us to lose ariza, the better of the two forwards. The Morris trade wouldn't have been necessary if Ernie had not left gapping holes in the roster last summer. And its too soon to judge oubre either way.

Also even though some of these moves dont look that bad when you look at them by themselves, its the shortsightedness that leads up to them and makes them necessary that pisses us off most. And even the moves that are somewhat good could have been better. And those of us who have been watching eg long enough realise that this is as good as it gets him before the cycle begins again. That is why he needs to go.