Who was more certain of position going into the NBA? Ben Simmons or Giannis

[Rupert Murdoch]

Both players have the height of a big man, the athleticism of a wing player, and the ball-handling/playmaking ability of a guard. Which player would you prefer to build around for the next ten years?

[H2tObes]

They are difficult to compare because one isn't in the NBA, but I think the logical choice would be to choose the player that has proven himself in the NBA

[Prez]

Giannis. Mainly because I think their offense will be similar, but Giannis is trending towards being an incredible all around defensive presence that Simmons just doesn't have the tools to be.

[SlowPaced]

Giannis' potential is endless on both ends.

[eminence]

Hmm, Giannis obviously has the higher floor, but I'd still say Simmons has the higher ceiling. So if I was building around a player I'd bet on Simmons, but recognize that I was taking a risk.

[BasketballFan7]

Giannis is more proven, more versatile on both ends, and a better defender.

Simmons is no joke though, and I could easily see him putting up monster statlines on great efficiency. It is a tough call.

[GYK]

Simmons, relative to their leagues, does far more playmaking and certainly ball handling than GA has shown. Seems like an Odom vs AK47 comparison. I could see Simmons higher on the offensive totem pole more than GA. Does it make him better? No.

[skones]

Simmons, relative to their leagues, does far more playmaking and certainly ball handling than GA has shown. Seems like an Odom vs AK47 comparison. I could see Simmons higher on the offensive totem pole more than GA. Does it make him better? No.

Giannis has shown more in that regard recently as he's been initiating the offense. It makes the comparison between the two more interesting.

[HeartBreakKid]

Simmons, relative to their leagues, does far more playmaking and certainly ball handling than GA has shown. Seems like an Odom vs AK47 comparison. I could see Simmons higher on the offensive totem pole more than GA. Does it make him better? No.

Giannis has been playing point guard, so I doubt Simmons has been doing far more playmaking.


Giannis is projecting to be a lockdown defender, that's something that Simmons doesn't project to be. Every thing else is pretty even, though physically Simmons is faster but doesn't play quite as big as Giannis does.

I think this is pretty easily Giannis at the moment.

[GYK]

He doesn't play point guard. He's an elite fastbreak scorer and playmaker. He, however, doesn't run the pick and roll. This is quality we ask of every playmaking wing in the league. His half court playmaking is limited to something everyone does. Pass to the open man under that basket or the wing. If this is point guard play Middleton is a point. He does everything GA does with more consistency.
Ben however is his team's primary playmaker on the break and half court, he is constantly in the pick and roll. He also pays out the post.

GA does look to be the better defender. That is unquestionably true. Simmons is far more offensively focused. If the offense isn't legit(putting pressure on the opposition to score, as you likely will) his stopping ability might show up to not be ready.

[Magic Giannison]

He doesn't play point guard. He's an elite fastbreak scorer and playmaker. He, however, doesn't run the pick and roll. This is quality we ask of every playmaking wing in the league. His half court playmaking is limited to something everyone does. Pass to the open man under that basket or the wing. If this is point guard play Middleton is a point. He does everything GA does with more consistency.
Ben however is his team's primary playmaker on the break and half court, he is constantly in the pick and roll. He also pays out the post.

GA does look to be the better defender. That is unquestionably true. Simmons is far more offensively focused. If the offense isn't legit(putting pressure on the opposition to score, as you likely will) his stopping ability might show up to not be ready.

Actually you're very wrong, Giannis does play at point , he has run tons of PNBRs with plumlee and Jabari, every game is visible.
Middleton ball handling and playmaking arent near as good as his but good enough to complement him as a second passing role.
Im not sure how can you say his playmaking half court is limited when the guy literally last night was making crazy plays and passing greatly while spacing the floor and drawing defenders on him.

Giannis not consistent ? since 9th February he is averaging 20 point s9 boards and 8 assists with 2 blocks and 2 steals.
Heck his post ASG numbers are Post ASB: 13games, 20.1ppg, 9.7rpg, 7.8apg, 1.9spg, 1.8bpg.

So no, you're totally wrong and no matter how much hyped Simmosn gets il never give up Giannis over a college prospect, not especially when he is 21 playing like mad.

[4xBuck]

The question is moot.

The Bucks are going to win the Lotto and build around Giannis and Ben...

[mattg]

He doesn't play point guard. He's an elite fastbreak scorer and playmaker. He, however, doesn't run the pick and roll. This is quality we ask of every playmaking wing in the league. His half court playmaking is limited to something everyone does. Pass to the open man under that basket or the wing. If this is point guard play Middleton is a point. He does everything GA does with more consistency.
Ben however is his team's primary playmaker on the break and half court, he is constantly in the pick and roll. He also pays out the post.

GA does look to be the better defender. That is unquestionably true. Simmons is far more offensively focused. If the offense isn't legit(putting pressure on the opposition to score, as you likely will) his stopping ability might show up to not be ready.

This is a confusing post. Since being moved to primary ball handler Giannis, if anything, is running too many high screen and rolls in the halfcourt. He spams it up to 3 times a possession at times and is running it literally every single time down. Earlier in the year Giannis was not acting as a PnR handler but lately he's been doing it a ton. Not sure if you haven't watched recently or are just looking at stats from the season as a whole, which aren't great indicators when a player has such a massive shift in role mid season.

[skones]

He doesn't play point guard. He's an elite fastbreak scorer and playmaker. He, however, doesn't run the pick and roll. This is quality we ask of every playmaking wing in the league. His half court playmaking is limited to something everyone does. Pass to the open man under that basket or the wing. If this is point guard play Middleton is a point. He does everything GA does with more consistency.
Ben however is his team's primary playmaker on the break and half court, he is constantly in the pick and roll. He also pays out the post.

GA does look to be the better defender. That is unquestionably true. Simmons is far more offensively focused. If the offense isn't legit(putting pressure on the opposition to score, as you likely will) his stopping ability might show up to not be ready.

Two or three months ago? Sure. Middleton was used to initiate quite often. The last month or so? It's all been Giannis, so the post, as of current, isn't very accurate. I won't argue with those who currently think Simmons has better vision, though Giannis as of recent is making a case for himself.

[GYK]

Two or three months ago? What about the games before last?
Bucks and Jazz are my two no media coverage teams. I don't know what y'all see in pick and roll play here or the GA thread. If y'all have possession compare them to other guys who run the offense from the wing. Gordon should be called a point more than GA. He's LeBron elite in the full court. It's one of the best attributes to have.

[tsherkin]

Two or three months ago? What about the games before last?
Bucks and Jazz are my two no media coverage teams. I don't know what y'all see in pick and roll play here or the GA thread. If y'all have possession compare them to other guys who run the offense from the wing. Gordon should be called a point more than GA. He's LeBron elite in the full court. It's one of the best attributes to have.

So you're basically wrong here. As I said, his seasonal possession proportions agree with you but the way he's been playing since he's actually been installed as a point guard are a little different, which is why you're running into trouble with people who do actually watch more Bucks ball than you do, I think. It's only been a dozen games or so since he was actually set into the playmaker role.

Anyway, stuff you're ignoring when you try to simplify to transition play and what-not are things like what he does off of dribble penetration, or his general court vision for stuff like when he gets a lead pass to the hoop and can see the D sucking in on him and enabling shuffle passes, etc. He gets baseline penetration, he attacks from the point or the wing, he's finding shooters all over the floor, and he gets screens from Monroe fairly often.

Does he spam it like a Nash/Paul/Stockton type? No, but he doesn't need to. Volume output isn't the goal, but he has a sufficiently diverse array of playmaking tools that he can move the ball to his teammates and create shots for them regardless. Never the less, he IS using the PnR, and much more than you are representing. That he hasn't needed to use it on like a third of his possessions isn't really relevant. This is like ragging on Magic (not that I'm equating the two) for never using the PnR, because it wasn't really his go-to either.

[AussieBuck]

Weird how one sided this is. Maybe because most of the Aussies are Bucks fans.

[Prez]

Yeah, wtf at this poll. I definitely wouldn't trade him for Simmons, but I thought for sure that was a homer opinion lol. Good to see GA get some love.

[scrabbarista]

I went with Simmons. I think the higher ceiling is with him and the lower floor with Giannis, agreed. Obviously Giannis has been on a tear the last month. Still, I think Simmons is better at 19 than Giannis was. Giannis is so special that I have a hard time projecting him, to be honest, but Simmons can be generational, so that's my pick.

It's fun knowing that if I were a GM I could beat 95% of you guys in drafting between these prospects. Ha, just messing with you.

[ReasonablySober]

I don't think the poll is all that surprising. There isn't anything that Simmons does that is arguably better than Giannis, Giannis has been dominating NBA competition, and has a significant length and athleticism advantage.