Game Thread: Magic (28-36) @ Blazers (34-32) - 3/12 10:30 PM ET

[OrlandoDream]

The problem with this team is that we've got Vuc, Oladipo and Fournier who are all bordering on being good enough to get us to the playoffs. Next season, I think they'll be polished enough and experienced enough to get us there.

But that's it. They're not going to take us beyond that point, because none of them are elite, or 'stars'.

Meanwhile, AG and Hezonja could be those future stars we need, but they'll need to make major jumps in USG. Now, I don't think Jimmy Butler would be where he is right now if Rose had been healthy that whole time. Or CJ McCollum might not be where he is if LMA, Batum, Wesley hadn't all moved on. Paul George wouldn't have become who he is if Green hadn't gone down.

The key factor there is opportunity. AG and Hezonja won't become next level talent unless they're given the opportunity to play like that. Right now, Hezonja should be the #1 option with the 2nd unit. AG should be a featured option with the starters, and become a primary option as the other starters go to the bench.

These options aren't mutually exclusive to trying to let the veterans carry us to wins, either. They can both happen together - and they should have done so much earlier in the season. So we should still be able to win and develop at the same time.

That's what all the fans want to see and I'm assuming Rob too. The problem is that Martins and Devos are once again putting the heat on the FO to make the playoffs and have that short-term success instead of building for the future. Right now, unfortunately, we have a better chance to get there with the veterans Dipo, Evan, and Vuc. Mario and AG are not ready for that role but how will they ever be if they are not given the opportunity? Look at what PHX has done with Booker, Sota with KAT, Knick with Porz, and Philly with Okafor, Lakers with Randolph and Russell. All are lottery teams and but at least, they are giving the responsibility to their future star players and developing them correctly. We are going in the complete opposite direction. AG/Mario are like the 4th to 5th option at best out there. CJ Watson is higher in Skiles offense then AG. The ignorance is unreal.

We the fans are not going to see what we want until this franchise makes up its mind about our future direction. Either give the keys to the trip of EP/Mario/AG or go with he 8 seed max and 1st round sweep of Dipo/Evan/Vuc. I hope they are smart enough to make the right decision.

[Xatticus]

The problem with this team is that we've got Vuc, Oladipo and Fournier who are all bordering on being good enough to get us to the playoffs. Next season, I think they'll be polished enough and experienced enough to get us there.

But that's it. They're not going to take us beyond that point, because none of them are elite, or 'stars'.

Meanwhile, AG and Hezonja could be those future stars we need, but they'll need to make major jumps in USG. Now, I don't think Jimmy Butler would be where he is right now if Rose had been healthy that whole time. Or CJ McCollum might not be where he is if LMA, Batum, Wesley hadn't all moved on. Paul George wouldn't have become who he is if Green hadn't gone down.

The key factor there is opportunity. AG and Hezonja won't become next level talent unless they're given the opportunity to play like that. Right now, Hezonja should be the #1 option with the 2nd unit. AG should be a featured option with the starters, and become a primary option as the other starters go to the bench.

These options aren't mutually exclusive to trying to let the veterans carry us to wins, either. They can both happen together - and they should have done so much earlier in the season. So we should still be able to win and develop at the same time.

I agree with this, though I don't actually see any of these players prohibiting success. My concern stems from their impending increases in pay. There is an organizational personnel hierarchy, and these are the players that are at the top of ours at present. Vucevic is already locked up to a team-friendly contract and he isn't blocking anyone's path to playing time. But Oladipo and Fournier, as well as Harris before his departure, have inflated perceived values due to their roles on this team.

There is an opportunity effect, and these players have benefited significantly from this opportunity effect. I worry they will be overpaid based on simple counting statistics (points, rebounds, assists, etc...) accrued simply from playing a lot of minutes. On many other rosters around the league, they are situational/matchup/complementary pieces. This is why I cringe when I hear people talk about a contract of 20M per year for Fournier.

To be clear, these are useful players. But they aren't players that are going to carry the Magic into the upper reaches of the NBA. From the start of the year, everyone involved with the organization has been droning on about the playoffs, but this is a roster that is clearly still in the developmental stage. By that, I mean that this team's focus should be on developing it's own talent, even at the expense of winning the odd game here or there. This isn't a process that takes years to pay dividends. Malone has stuck with Mudiay in Denver despite his abysmal start to the year, and that team is rapidly improving.

I didn't have any problems with the Harris departure, but the return in that trade has me really concerned. We got nothing of value back. That was, at best, a salary dump. I suspect it was also to clear a path for Gordon as well, but that is just speculation. I can't help but wonder if Hennigan will have to continue to shuffle off players that Skiles will favor over more promising talent (similar to what one of the theme's in Moneyball). And if so, would Fournier and Oladipo departures yield nothing in return as well? This puts us right back where we were when this rebuild began.

[cedric76]

Elf has all the opportunity in the world but for unknown reason he doesn't give his 100%

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[KillMonger]

We looked like ass, but of course Skiles takes no responsibility for giving the game away in the 2nd quarter by subbing in Ilyasova at center. Lead balloons from single digits to 23 and Skiles just watches it happen... leaves dedmon on the bench the entire time. It was a tie game when dedmon was subbed out in the 1st... didn't get to come back in the 2nd because he gave up a couple easy looks near the rim. So what, is it really worth putting us at an even bigger disadvantage by playing Ilyasova out of position at center? Ilyasova gave up 88% fg at the rim... smh.

skiles seems to like to send messages with playing time.....instead of....you know....coach him up during the game and after....its like a punishment or something

[SOUL]

Elf has all the opportunity in the world but for unknown reason he doesn't give his 100%

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All the opportunity in the world besides playing through mistakes and playing in lineups and offenses that suit his style, sure.

[cedric76]

Elf has all the opportunity in the world but for unknown reason he doesn't give his 100%

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All the opportunity in the world besides playing through mistakes and playing in lineups and offenses that suit his style, sure.

Enough excuses, elf hasn't shown the will he used to

He needs to give 100% again and you can't blame Scott for that

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[SOUL]

Forum poster questioning somebody's will is funny.

[SOUL]

Elfrid comes to your job...

"You aren't doing your job 100%"

"yes I am!"

"No you aren't!"

"yes I am!"

Elfrid needs to be more aggressive at times and improve his FT%. His shot has gotten better. He's running the same offense that all the PGs are when he isn't freestyling (where he looks better), he's not as good on defense this year but nobody on this team is really besides AG. Hell, I saw a thread with some Minnesota and Dallas posters talking about PG defense and saying how it's literally impossible with the rules to guard any PG that is fast and semi-athletic, which are the ones that give Elfrid the most trouble. It's just not easy.

But yeah enough excuses for a 2nd year young PG that unequivocally has has had the least "opportunity" out of our core.

[MagicStarwipe]

Back to Elfrid huh? Scott Skiles and Elfrid Payton together will never work. The Elfrid Payton situation was real, but it's really the Scott Skiles situation. This won't be an Allen Iverson and Larry Brown repeat. And even that didn't end all that great.

[Gomagic44]

Elfrid comes to your job...

"You aren't doing your job 100%"

"yes I am!"

"No you aren't!"

"yes I am!"

Elfrid needs to be more aggressive at times and improve his FT%. His shot has gotten better. He's running the same offense that all the PGs are when he isn't freestyling (where he looks better), he's not as good on defense this year but nobody on this team is really besides AG. Hell, I saw a thread with some Minnesota and Dallas posters talking about PG defense and saying how it's literally impossible with the rules to guard any PG that is fast and semi-athletic, which are the ones that give Elfrid the most trouble. It's just not easy.

But yeah enough excuses for a 2nd year young PG that unequivocally has has had the least "opportunity" out of our core.

If you are believing that the rules of the league make pg defense next to impossible..then we sure as hell aren't going anywhere with a pg who isn't a scorer, has confidence issues and can't hit free throws..


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[SOUL]

If you are believing that the rules of the league make pg defense next to impossible..then we sure as hell aren't going anywhere with a pg who isn't a scorer, has confidence issues and can't hit free throws..

He absolutely needs to become at least a 70% FT shooter, I won't argue that. His scoring is coming along and I don't think the issue is him scoring, it's balancing the passing and scoring load. Again, an issue that most of our team has is roles and what they should be doing with the roles. A lot of people who should be doing less is doing more and the ones that should be doing more are being pushed down.

I don't know how confident or not he is. He's always been a pass first PG so when people expect him to be a Kyrie clone, it's not in his DNA. I know you'd see a lot more consistency when he's not yanked for a few bad plays while others get to do much worse out there. I think when he has a 5 minute stint and then goes to the bench when he's simply running plays that Skiles wants is a null tell and doesn't really highlight any of his abilities.

And It's not "me believing" it - it's easy to see with your own eyes how hard it is to stop the Walls, Westbrooks, Stephs, Lillards, etc when you can't handcheck (something Payton does a bit too much and gets dumb fouls). I don't think his defense is a concern. I think any of our guards defense is not going to look good with a competent anchor. The team is a mess on the defensive end from 1-15 with AG the only one looking to be extremely promising in any sort of scheme.

[SaberT]

Biggest problem Payton has is that next to him is Oladipo. Victor is not a great shooter, and likes to play with the ball in his hands, all of which diminishes effect Payton can have on the game. I believe them to be incompatible and should not be in the same lineup. One of them should lead the second unit, and it would give Magic a more balanced offense and defense.

How can Payton or Oladipo play well when both of them aren't great shooters so they tend to go inside. Defensively it's hard to judge Payton as it's hard to defend elite PGs one on one. It has to be a team effort, especially if they drive.

I'd be open to putting Payton to the second unit, if it meant more balanced lineups. Coaching should be tough in that respect, force second unit to play team basketball. Alternatively, I'd give Oladipo a full go ahead as 6th man, with starter minutes but with most of it coming leading second unit.

[pepe1991]

If we resign Fournier and let's say somebody like Batum, why da hell people think we will be any better than this year? Basically it's Batum for Harris, and Harris is killing it in Pistons , and was brutally underused under Skiles who got him traded TWICE (first time with Bucks).

Fournier ,Vuc and Oladipo are fine players, Oladipo having most potential of them but at BEST that's a core for 6# spot in playoffs and first round exit and most likely not even playoffs. Fournier is underszied, underweight SF with extreamly low number of rebounds for that position (and in playoffs he should be one who will guard guys like Lebron, George... , if you send Gordon on that type of wings that would put Fournier on Love, Turner and other PFs? Hell no) and when you put him at SG he simply isn't that good .
Vučević can't defend, and his offense is sometimes questionable because he can't draw fouls, we played 4 games without him now and basically NOTHING changed. His shots just spread around to others.

Gordon must develop his offense, at this point,where we are sitting with Knicks on 28 wins ,being #good" enough for 4th worst record on East there is no reason why Hezonja can't play 28 min and take 12-14 shots per game to get used on bigger usage.

FA this year will b fool's gold for Magic. We have no shot at Durant, Horford and others guys just don't make you that much better and even they are question mark . 20 teams have space in salary to max out 1 or more players, we are just one of them. You can make strong argument that at least 12 teams are better landing spots than Magic right now and there is NO 12 max deal players to begin with, let alone 20.

[Last Guardian]

I won't lie, I'm pretty mad Skiles didn't put Dedmon back in the first half. We were doing fine while he was in, and then got blown out after he left. I don't understand how people don't get that Dedmon is an impact player.

[Furinkazan]

If we resign Fournier and let's say somebody like Batum, why da hell people think we will be any better than this year? Basically it's Batum for Harris, and Harris is killing it in Pistons , and was brutally underused under Skiles who got him traded TWICE (first time with Bucks).

Fournier ,Vuc and Oladipo are fine players, Oladipo having most potential of them but at BEST that's a core for 6# spot in playoffs and first round exit and most likely not even playoffs. Fournier is underszied, underweight SF with extreamly low number of rebounds for that position (and in playoffs he should be one who will guard guys like Lebron, George... , if you send Gordon on that type of wings that would put Fournier on Love, Turner and other PFs? Hell no) and when you put him at SG he simply isn't that good .
Vučević can't defend, and his offense is sometimes questionable because he can't draw fouls, we played 4 games without him now and basically NOTHING changed. His shots just spread around to others.

Gordon must develop his offense, at this point,where we are sitting with Knicks on 28 wins ,being #good" enough for 4th worst record on East there is no reason why Hezonja can't play 28 min and take 12-14 shots per game to get used on bigger usage.

FA this year will b fool's gold for Magic. We have no shot at Durant, Horford and others guys just don't make you that much better and even they are question mark . 20 teams have space in salary to max out 1 or more players, we are just one of them. You can make strong argument that at least 12 teams are better landing spots than Magic right now and there is NO 12 max deal players to begin with, let alone 20.

my sentiments exactly ...