Wolves @ suns

[AtheJ415]

It is the most immature and asinine crap actively cheering for a team to tank.

Teams are constructed to win less games than other teams, but teams will never be constructed to LOSE basketball games. There is a big difference.

Embrace a good win in a lost season and stop complaining about hypotheticals. Just because a PJ and Tyson were the ones who helped us win tonight doesn't mean it's suddenly a lost game for guys like Book and Len. Wins help develop players even when they have bad games. Ping pong balls don't decide our future. The attitude, standards and culture set now do.

Unless any of you would like to take the Suns head coaching job and try and develop a team with a bunch of losers. I hear they're taking applications.

Cry me a freaking river about you bitching about other people crying a freaking river.

Regardless of what you say, our future is worse off with this individual win than without it. Don't sit here and try to patronize fans who are smart enough to realize that.

The attitude, standards, and culture are not impacted by any single game. Not a one. It's entirely irrelevant. And I can say quite confidently that our team's attitude, standards, and culture will only get better when the young guys like Booker and Len become our leaders, because the vets you are so happy for have epically failed to establish the attitude, culture, and standards that would help us in any way. The last time we won games here PJ Tucker helped us set an attitude of stupifying technicals that cost us a playoff spot.

Also, you seem to be missing that nobody here is saying the players should try to lose. Everybody here is just hoping they lose, and that our crappy vets who have proven to be crappy continue to play like the sorry excuses for their current salaries that they've proven to be all year long, instead of playing well finally when it's not in our best interest to do so.

[AtheJ415]

Btw, I know Tucker had a great stat line, but there was one play in the fourth quarter that spotlighted how stupid he is. When the Suns had a fast break and it was three on one under the hoop and Leuer was trailing with his hands up, all Tucker needed to do was pass him the ball for an easy dunk/layup. Instead he drove straight at the defender and missed the shot and missed the put backs too and the Suns did not score. It was a basic basketball play and Tucker was unable to execute it. I said this before and I will say it again now. I think getting rid of Tucker this offseason is a major key towards changing the culture of the Phoenix Suns and distancing themselves from the last remaining link of the Lance Blanks era.

A bizzare time to call for PJ's head. I'm sure 29 other GMs would gladly take him for you.

PJ certainly isn't a great player by many metrics, but hustle is infectious. Teams win with the mentality of guys like PJ.

Price on the other hand, god knows why anyone thinks he adds value on the court. Full court pressure and getting blown by every possession doesn't make you a defensive specialist. I'm sure he adds a great deal to the locker room however.

Really? 29 teams would take PJ? I know of 2 who wanted him. There may be more. I know a contender would, but I can't see a reason a single non-playoff team who is rebuilding (like we are, by the way) would want the dude at all. Why would Philly, LA, MN, or others in our shoes want him?

[batsmasher]

This is just hilariously wrong. Plenty of teams tank. The NBA was run by people who allowed the Sixers to happen for years, and then forced them to take on Colangelo, who has not helped in the slightest.

If you gave Hinkie a truth serum and asked if he wanted to win 20 games a year I believe he'd say yes. Of course the team he puts out on the court is designed to win less games than the rest of the league. But aiming to lose gets you nowhere. Colangelo was there to actually give some direction to the franchise. Kids on their own can't find a direction in the NBA.

[TeamTragic]

It is the most immature and asinine crap actively cheering for a team to tank.

Teams are constructed to win less games than other teams, but teams will never be constructed to LOSE basketball games. There is a big difference.

Embrace a good win in a lost season and stop complaining about hypotheticals. Just because a PJ and Tyson were the ones who helped us win tonight doesn't mean it's suddenly a lost game for guys like Book and Len. Wins help develop players even when they have bad games. Ping pong balls don't decide our future. The attitude, standards and culture set now do.

Unless any of you would like to take the Suns head coaching job and try and develop a team with a bunch of losers. I hear they're taking applications.

2008-09 Warriors? Tanked. Got Curry. 2015 Champions.
2007-09 Sonics/Thunder? Tanked. Got Durant. 2012 Finals.
2006-07 Celtics? Tanked. Traded #5 for Allen. Added Garnett. 2008 Champions.
1996-97 Spurs? Tanked. Got Duncan. [fill in the blank]

Remember how bad the Heat were before Wade? Lakers before they traded for Kobe? Please stop posting garbage and accept that rebuilding through the draft has yielded championships.

[batsmasher]

Cry me a freaking river about you bitching about other people crying a freaking river.

Regardless of what you say, our future is worse off with this individual win than without it. Don't sit here and try to patronize fans who are smart enough to realize that.

The attitude, standards, and culture are not impacted by any single game. Not a one. It's entirely irrelevant. And I can say quite confidently that our team's attitude, standards, and culture will only get better when the young guys like Booker and Len become our leaders, because the vets you are so happy for have epically failed to establish the attitude, culture, and standards that would help us in any way. The last time we won games here PJ Tucker helped us set an attitude of stupifying technicals that cost us a playoff spot.

Also, you seem to be missing that nobody here is saying the players should try to lose. Everybody here is just hoping they lose, and that our crappy vets who have proven to be crappy continue to play like the sorry excuses for their current salaries that they've proven to be all year long, instead of playing well finally when it's not in our best interest to do so.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise I was being patronising. If you feel threatened by me, please report my antics to bw and I will receive a warning.

As an unintelligent fan with no grasp on reality, I know that this 'future' you speak of is not concretely defined. Odds are odds are odds. I honestly don't know how to articulate that any other way. Good GMs can navigate a franchise from any draft position. It isn't a doomsday situation.

The reason I come in hot when this same boring stuff comes up is for the following reasons:

1. You wouldnt say it in the presence of the team or anyone associated with the Suns, only behind their backs.
2. It is uncreative and predictable. You can talk about other things than losing. Every time you open up a thread about a win you can guarantee there will be a post talking about how it hurts our lotto odds. Is there any value to that?
3. We have a team to support. There is no balance of positive encouragement and props to counteract the talk of tanking. As such it starts to sound like an obsession.

My biggest gripe comes with the last point. I don't think I'd even be mad if there was a balance to the discussion in game threads, but being positive about a team in a bad situation is apparently too hard. I can be negative about this team easily. I don't come to this board looking for it, I already know what it feels like.

[AtheJ415]

Cry me a freaking river about you bitching about other people crying a freaking river.

Regardless of what you say, our future is worse off with this individual win than without it. Don't sit here and try to patronize fans who are smart enough to realize that.

The attitude, standards, and culture are not impacted by any single game. Not a one. It's entirely irrelevant. And I can say quite confidently that our team's attitude, standards, and culture will only get better when the young guys like Booker and Len become our leaders, because the vets you are so happy for have epically failed to establish the attitude, culture, and standards that would help us in any way. The last time we won games here PJ Tucker helped us set an attitude of stupifying technicals that cost us a playoff spot.

Also, you seem to be missing that nobody here is saying the players should try to lose. Everybody here is just hoping they lose, and that our crappy vets who have proven to be crappy continue to play like the sorry excuses for their current salaries that they've proven to be all year long, instead of playing well finally when it's not in our best interest to do so.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise I was being patronising. If you feel threatened by me, please report my antics to bw and I will receive a warning.

As an unintelligent fan with no grasp on reality, I know that this 'future' you speak of is not concretely defined. Odds are odds are odds. I honestly don't know how to articulate that any other way. Good GMs can navigate a franchise from any draft position. It isn't a doomsday situation.

The reason I come in hot when this same boring stuff comes up is for the following reasons:

1. You wouldnt say it in the presence of the team or anyone associated with the Suns, only behind their backs.
2. It is uncreative and predictable. You can talk about other things than losing. Every time you open up a thread about a win you can guarantee there will be a post talking about how it hurts our lotto odds. Is there any value to that?
3. We have a team to support. There is no balance of positive encouragement and props to counteract the talk of tanking. As such it starts to sound like an obsession.

My biggest gripe comes with the last point. I don't think I'd even be mad if there was a balance to the discussion in game threads, but being positive about a team in a bad situation is apparently too hard. I can be negative about this team easily. I don't come to this board looking for it, I already know what it feels like.

Lol. I feel threatened by you?

This is a message board. Patronizing has nothing to do with feeling threatened. The day I feel threatened by a message board poster I'll just do the smart thing and log off the freaking internet.

1. Not true. McDonough himself has said getting a top pick is likely our best move and he said it awhile ago. While it took him time to come around to, he did mention it. Regardless, I'd be happy to say it to anyone. We are better off losing this season.
2. It is basic math and unequivocally justifiable. The odds favor teams that lose more. Yes, a team CAN win the draft from any position, but it is still unequivocally better to have a higher pick so that your GM can pick the player it wants or trade down and get additional value. You're advocating choosing a harder road when it comes to adding talent via the draft when we have nothing to play for. We aren't developing a winning culture this season, sorry to crush your dreams. It isn't happening. Not with this group.
3. There is plenty of balance when it's the young guys who play well. There isn't when it's the vets. There's a logical reason for that. Those who are rooting for tanking aren't non-supportive fans. They're just fans who know the present is lost and want the best odds of a bright future. When the young guys develop, that future becomes brighter. When PJ and Tyson decide once every 12 games or so that they'd like to pull their heads out of their bums to play smart basketball, it does next to nothing for our future and hurts our odds at a better one via the draft.

If you don't want negativity associated with this team, then go to the Booker or Len threads. Overall, there isn't much to be positive about except for them and our upcoming draft pick, which you are actively complaining about when people become upset that it is likely getting worse. It's the reality of the team. The positivity exists with the young players. The negativity and hopelessness resides with PJ, Tyson, Knight for many, and yes, Ronnie Price.

[batsmasher]

1. Not true. McDonough himself has said getting a top pick is likely our best move and he said it awhile ago. While it took him time to come around to, he did mention it. Regardless, I'd be happy to say it to anyone. We are better off losing this season.

I fully support any fan who goes to a Suns game with a massive sign saying 'Embrace the tank' and their best photoshopped tank picture.

Even more props if you wear a massive cardboard tank to the game. There's nothing to be afraid of. The Suns will probably give you free Carls Jr for your efforts. They love tanking.

[Moochthemonkey]

It is the most immature and asinine crap actively cheering for a team to tank.

Teams are constructed to win less games than other teams, but teams will never be constructed to LOSE basketball games. There is a big difference.

Embrace a good win in a lost season and stop complaining about hypotheticals. Just because a PJ and Tyson were the ones who helped us win tonight doesn't mean it's suddenly a lost game for guys like Book and Len. Wins help develop players even when they have bad games. Ping pong balls don't decide our future. The attitude, standards and culture set now do.

Unless any of you would like to take the Suns head coaching job and try and develop a team with a bunch of losers. I hear they're taking applications.

2012-13 Warriors? Tanked. Got Curry. 2015 Champions.
2007-09 Sonics/Thunder? Tanked. Got Durant. 2012 Finals.
2006-07 Celtics? Tanked. Traded #5 for Allen. Added Garnett. 2008 Champions.
1996-97 Spurs? Tanked. Got Duncan. [fill in the blank]

Remember how bad the Heat were before Wade? Lakers before they traded for Kobe? Please stop posting garbage and accept that rebuilding through the draft has yielded championships.

Lakers were actually p. good before Kobe, the 2013 Warriors lost in the semifinals in six (Curry was drafted in '09) but otherwise yer right, all Championship teams have had to rebuild through the draft in one way or another. On that note, the Sonics had the 5th worst record, the Warriors had the 7th worst record, and the Spurs the 3rd worst when they drafted those aforementioned players. In all probability the Suns will stay at #28.

I'm not really a person that believes in karma, but I have a respect for the game. I want the Suns to win as much as possible, and the Sixers, Nets, Lakers, to win even more. Don't pin all your hopes on a crapshoot. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be on this Earth, so I just want to watch good, competitive basketball in the current. Not that I'm saying that people who actively root for the team to lose games in the grand scheme of plans don't have respectable opinions. So while perfectly understandable, it's a bit frustrating to read the continual anguish when a rare win occurs on this forum.

[Moochthemonkey]

The face of our franchise. We've hit rock bottom

taken out of context, that's actually from a Tostitos Cantina commercial

[Mulhollanddrive]

We ignored the Teletovic 10 point margin rule and got the result.

[letsgosuns]

For people that are against tanking and want the Suns to win every game, let me ask you this. Let's say the Suns start playing .500 ball the rest of the season and lose out on a top three pick. They not only lose out on one of the top draft prospects, but they lose out on a massive trade asset to acquire a superstar. Every team covets a top three pick. It is much harder to entice a team to part with a superstar for the 4th-7th pick in the draft.

Now some people argue they want a winning culture and do not like losing under any circumstances. Okay. But be realistic. Is this win against the Timberwolves going to have an effect on the team's performance next year. Idk. It might. Booker made a huge clutch play immediately following his big turnover and ensuing foul that could have lost the game. So that redemption he had is big for his confidence. The players were ecstatic they won the game. Yet the point about getting the best pick you can remains.

The Suns have come so far in what has been a horrendous season and I think they need to go all the way. To suffer through this as a fan and then see the Suns potentially deprive themselves of the chance to draft a generational talent or trade for a superstar would be devastating. Yes I know the Suns might already have their franchise cornerstone in Booker and possibly even Len, but they need more than that. They need another huge piece.

I will give a ridiculous hypothetical scenario. The Suns get a top three pick and trade it plus Knight for Blake Griffin, who agrees to re-sign with the Suns when he becomes a free agent. On July 1st, Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Griffin, and Chandler show up as part of an entourage to meet with Kevin Durant. Does Durant consider the Suns then? I think so. And do I think a team of Bledsoe, Booker, Durant, Griffin, Len, Chandler, Warren, and whoever else can possibly win the title? HELL YES I DO!

Another scenario. Suns win the draft lottery and draft the player of their choice and build a dynasty consisting of Booker, Len, Warren, their new pick, and whoever else.

On the flip side, the Suns keep winning, lose out on a top three pick, draft a player, strike out in free agency, and everyone says I wonder what could have happened if the Suns would have just kept losing and not screwed themselves out of a top three pick.

[Saberestar]

It's not that bad to win some games here or there...we lost badly to the Knicks, lost to GSW the other night and won yesterday against the Wolves. Not a big deal.

We need to have in mind that the Nets play against Philadelphia tonight, they are going to win.

Calm down, our tanking job has been good enough to deliver a high pick next season for sure.

[bwgood77]

To make ya guys feel better Nets play Sixers tomorrow night and then the following night. They don't have Okafor so I expect a two game win streak for the Nets!

They'll probably rest Lopez and Young the 2nd night.

[bwgood77]

Cry me a freakin river we won a game.

Go Suns.

You are a terrible fan if you think a team who works their butts off for a win shouldn't because you want more lottery balls. I can't even begin to explain how grateful I am that the NBA is run by basketball minds who know that lotto balls aren't the be all and end all.

This is just hilariously wrong. Plenty of teams tank. The NBA was run by people who allowed the Sixers to happen for years, and then forced them to take on Colangelo, who has not helped in the slightest.

I can't even begin to explain how grateful I am that the NBA is not run how you say, and that we have fans and a GM who realizes that tanking is our best move at this point in the season.

Well it doesn't appear that our GM is trying to tank based on what is happening.

[bwgood77]

It is the most immature and asinine crap actively cheering for a team to tank.

Teams are constructed to win less games than other teams, but teams will never be constructed to LOSE basketball games. There is a big difference.

Embrace a good win in a lost season and stop complaining about hypotheticals. Just because a PJ and Tyson were the ones who helped us win tonight doesn't mean it's suddenly a lost game for guys like Book and Len. Wins help develop players even when they have bad games. Ping pong balls don't decide our future. The attitude, standards and culture set now do.

Unless any of you would like to take the Suns head coaching job and try and develop a team with a bunch of losers. I hear they're taking applications.

Regardless of what you say, our future is worse off with this individual win than without it.

You have no idea what happens in the lottery. We may end up falling into that lucky spot that wins the lottery. Winning breeds confidence in everyone. I wish we hadn't won, but there are definitely not ALL bad things with winning.

And one positive thing about this win is that Knight played SO bad and Booker didn't look so happy with them that maybe the FO is that much closer to deciding we should trade him.

[bwgood77]

It is the most immature and asinine crap actively cheering for a team to tank.

Teams are constructed to win less games than other teams, but teams will never be constructed to LOSE basketball games. There is a big difference.

Embrace a good win in a lost season and stop complaining about hypotheticals. Just because a PJ and Tyson were the ones who helped us win tonight doesn't mean it's suddenly a lost game for guys like Book and Len. Wins help develop players even when they have bad games. Ping pong balls don't decide our future. The attitude, standards and culture set now do.

Unless any of you would like to take the Suns head coaching job and try and develop a team with a bunch of losers. I hear they're taking applications.

2012-13 Warriors? Tanked. Got Curry. 2015 Champions.
2007-09 Sonics/Thunder? Tanked. Got Durant. 2012 Finals.
2006-07 Celtics? Tanked. Traded #5 for Allen. Added Garnett. 2008 Champions.
1996-97 Spurs? Tanked. Got Duncan. [fill in the blank]

Remember how bad the Heat were before Wade? Lakers before they traded for Kobe? Please stop posting garbage and accept that rebuilding through the draft has yielded championships.

We are rebuilding through the draft and we will have a better pick than got Curry, probably the same spot that got trade for Allen. The Spurs got Duncan because Robinson was out the whole year and the Sonics. The Sonics had the 4th worst record that year which is what we will probably have this year.

[bwgood77]

Cry me a freaking river about you bitching about other people crying a freaking river.

Regardless of what you say, our future is worse off with this individual win than without it. Don't sit here and try to patronize fans who are smart enough to realize that.

The attitude, standards, and culture are not impacted by any single game. Not a one. It's entirely irrelevant. And I can say quite confidently that our team's attitude, standards, and culture will only get better when the young guys like Booker and Len become our leaders, because the vets you are so happy for have epically failed to establish the attitude, culture, and standards that would help us in any way. The last time we won games here PJ Tucker helped us set an attitude of stupifying technicals that cost us a playoff spot.

Also, you seem to be missing that nobody here is saying the players should try to lose. Everybody here is just hoping they lose, and that our crappy vets who have proven to be crappy continue to play like the sorry excuses for their current salaries that they've proven to be all year long, instead of playing well finally when it's not in our best interest to do so.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise I was being patronising. If you feel threatened by me, please report my antics to bw and I will receive a warning.

As an unintelligent fan with no grasp on reality, I know that this 'future' you speak of is not concretely defined. Odds are odds are odds. I honestly don't know how to articulate that any other way. Good GMs can navigate a franchise from any draft position. It isn't a doomsday situation.

The reason I come in hot when this same boring stuff comes up is for the following reasons:

1. You wouldnt say it in the presence of the team or anyone associated with the Suns, only behind their backs.
2. It is uncreative and predictable. You can talk about other things than losing. Every time you open up a thread about a win you can guarantee there will be a post talking about how it hurts our lotto odds. Is there any value to that?
3. We have a team to support. There is no balance of positive encouragement and props to counteract the talk of tanking. As such it starts to sound like an obsession.

My biggest gripe comes with the last point. I don't think I'd even be mad if there was a balance to the discussion in game threads, but being positive about a team in a bad situation is apparently too hard. I can be negative about this team easily. I don't come to this board looking for it, I already know what it feels like.

Lol. I feel threatened by you?

This is a message board. Patronizing has nothing to do with feeling threatened. The day I feel threatened by a message board poster I'll just do the smart thing and log off the freaking internet.

1. Not true. McDonough himself has said getting a top pick is likely our best move and he said it awhile ago. While it took him time to come around to, he did mention it. Regardless, I'd be happy to say it to anyone. We are better off losing this season.
2. It is basic math and unequivocally justifiable. The odds favor teams that lose more. Yes, a team CAN win the draft from any position, but it is still unequivocally better to have a higher pick so that your GM can pick the player it wants or trade down and get additional value. You're advocating choosing a harder road when it comes to adding talent via the draft when we have nothing to play for. We aren't developing a winning culture this season, sorry to crush your dreams. It isn't happening. Not with this group.
3. There is plenty of balance when it's the young guys who play well. There isn't when it's the vets. There's a logical reason for that. Those who are rooting for tanking aren't non-supportive fans. They're just fans who know the present is lost and want the best odds of a bright future. When the young guys develop, that future becomes brighter. When PJ and Tyson decide once every 12 games or so that they'd like to pull their heads out of their bums to play smart basketball, it does next to nothing for our future and hurts our odds at a better one via the draft.

If you don't want negativity associated with this team, then go to the Booker or Len threads. Overall, there isn't much to be positive about except for them and our upcoming draft pick, which you are actively complaining about when people become upset that it is likely getting worse. It's the reality of the team. The positivity exists with the young players. The negativity and hopelessness resides with PJ, Tyson, Knight for many, and yes, Ronnie Price.

No need to insinuate another poster is crazy. You just sound like a freaking broken record at this point. He's pointing out that the bitching gets tiring. It does. We all want good odds at a good pick.

[Saberestar]

To make ya guys feel better Nets play Sixers tomorrow night and then the following night. They don't have Okafor so I expect a two game win streak for the Nets!

They'll probably rest Lopez and Young the 2nd night.

That's not correct. They play against each other tonight, just that, only one game.

[King4Day]

Bringing Knight back is the biggest sign that nobody, from Sarver to Watson, has intentions to tank.

Chances are, we'll nab the 4th seed. No matter how bad we are, we just can't get worse than Brooklyn. It's a shame they bought out JJ. He's worth a few wins.

[King4Day]

On the good news side of things. With Tucker and Chandler playing well, if we decide to try to deal off either guy, their value has certainly improved.
Coincidence or not, Len is having a really good season, the same year Chandler is added to the locker room.