Split(s) on the board. How do you see it?

zeebneeb · Post #1 » by **zeebneeb** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:59 pm

Given this some thought and there seems to be three camps on this board at the moment concerning our starting 5 and I'm interested in the poll results. You absolutely do not have to explain yourself if you feel it will start an argument or you will get ganged up on for how you see it.

Explain if you want, or not. Just vote. I'm interested in seeing just how split the board is on the topic of our starting core.

Most of it seems to revolve around KCP and Morris with a touch of Andre and Reggive but that's not the point. I'll say I'm in the third camp. Wait and see but I'm open to an upgrade if the right guy can be had.

Laimbeer · Post #2 » by **Laimbeer** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:22 am

Not sure what the question is. Are you asking if we are starting the right guys now, or are you asking if our starters are good enough to become a contender at some point?

Arp590 · Post #3 » by **Arp590** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:23 am

I think all of our starters are locked into place except for Marcus. He's a nice piece but is probably better suited coming off the bench. We just really don't have anyone that can replace him yet, at least until Stanley is more developed.
Although Marcus is having a pretty good month so far, especially from 3 point range.

zeebneeb · Post #4 » by **zeebneeb** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:27 am

Laimbeer wrote:Not sure what the question is. Are you asking if we are starting the right guys now, or are you asking if our starters are good enough to become a contender at some point?

I don't know how to be any more direct then "The starters are set I believe in them" I am not trying to be a smartass at all with that answer so don't take it that way but I will explain;

Starters set=Yes, this is a title contending starting 5.

Desperate changes=No amount of time will lead the current starters to become a title team

Wait and see=Perhaps they could develop into a title team, but I am open to a trade or free agent if they make the starters even better.

Sorry if it was confusing at all. Not my intention.

Laimbeer · Post #5 » by **Laimbeer** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:32 am

We almost certainly need changes to be a title contender. We really need a Batman or Robin to Dre, a guy who would be one of our best two players along with Dre.

Phenomenonsense · Post #6 » by **Phenomenonsense** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:35 am

Is this even a question? nah

zeebneeb · Post #7 » by **zeebneeb** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:40 am

Phenomenonsense wrote:Is this even a question? nah

Yes, yes it is. A pretty good one actually.

Phenomenonsense · Post #8 » by **Phenomenonsense** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:45 am

zeebneeb wrote:
Phenomenonsense wrote:Is this even a question? nah
Yes, yes it is. A pretty good one actually.

You think so? Dre is in his 4th year, I'm not sure he will show any significant improvement from this year forward. I don't believe in Reggie in any way. I like Tobais and Johnson. Lukewarm on Morris. I mean, we're significantly better than we have been in the past, but I think that people are comparing ourselves to them, not comparing ourselves to the great teams of this league, when they say we can contend. But, you and I don't agree on a variety of things. Like, 50+ wins and third seed, for example, so I can see how you think we're better and have more potential than we do.

fekz · Post #9 » by **fekz** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:42 am

Really tired of the negative nancies around here. The only player in concerned about is Morris. When he's on, he's great, but for the stretch 4 role he has to continue to shoot it well for him to be viable as a starter.

If we can make the playoffs this year, it would be invaluable to our team for experience and desire to win. Nothing lights a fire in a young player like a first round bounce, especially after having seen the playoffs for the first them in their career. It's gonna hurt and they're gonna want to get a lot better.

Blkbrd671 · Post #10 » by **Blkbrd671** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:11 am

i think right now its set but we are looking to upgrade the PF spot. Harris is our starting SF next season though idk if he can produce defensively like mook, who is one of our better defenders.

This offseason is going to be really interesting and i think we'll see one or 2 players we want to keep going out

ElectricMayhem · Post #11 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:26 am

We have a nice core going forward. SVG & Bower have done a brilliant job over the last year or 2 trading pennies and nickels for dimes and quarters. If there are quarters for dollars-type trades out there, we do it to try to assert ourselves in the East. If not, there's no downside to letting this group grow together.

joseph mamah · Post #12 » by **joseph mamah** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:42 am

I think the young core can be a perennial playoff team with the occasional 1st round series win, but they'll only go as far as Dre can take them, and he just doesnt seem to have the heart of a champion. I didnt vote, because im not sure what category that puts me in.

Spider156 · Post #13 » by **Spider156** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:38 am

fekz wrote:Really tired of the negative nancies around here. The only player in concerned about is Morris. When he's on, he's great, but for the stretch 4 role he has to continue to shoot it well for him to be viable as a starter.

If we can make the playoffs this year, it would be invaluable to our team for experience and desire to win. Nothing lights a fire in a young player like a first round bounce, especially after having seen the playoffs for the first them in their career. It's gonna hurt and they're gonna want to get a lot better.

This is exactly what EVERYONE should be thinking. We're the youngest team in the NBA. As far as Morris goes, I believe Johnson will absolutely take the starting lineup. Did you see what he did against the Nets? How many times he set up Drummond. How much attention he garners for his shot and drive. He's got it all. He needs to start but he's still a rookie. But there's NO DOUBT in my mind that he'll earn the starting position and become a great player for us. Morris is a bench player. He's just not the playmaker Johnson is and can't score as well as Tobias does. He just has respect right now because he's a dog out there. He's got a great competitive spirit and he deserves to be starting. I think eventually we might actually lose him to a team that's going to pay him more.

Spider156 · Post #14 » by **Spider156** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:42 am

joseph mamah wrote:I think the young core can be a perennial playoff team with the occasional 1st round series win, but they'll only go as far as Dre can take them, and he just doesnt seem to have the heart of a champion. I didnt vote, because im not sure what category that puts me in.

That's fair. I don't think Drummond is going to take us to the Finals. I think that's Stanley Johnson. He's literally our future and might become great as soon as next season. Johnson is our potential. What Drummond does though is priceless. He maximises everybody's potential around him. Any point guard that has Drummond in the pick and roll is going to look great. After what I saw from Johnson setting up Drummond the way he did against the Nets, I can see Jackson and Johnson being the ones to take us to the Finals. KCP is the energy. Tobias is the great compliment and leader to complete the picture. Drummond. He's the key piece to give everyone confidence and maximizes what they do on the floor. Of course, there's always a chance next season Drummond becomes even better. He's only 22 years old.

Finn McCool · Post #15 » by **Finn McCool** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:52 am

I'm curious as to whether this thread was designed to provoke some negative posters... like myself.

zeebneeb · Post #16 » by **zeebneeb** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:17 am

Finn McCool wrote:I'm curious as to whether this thread was designed to provoke some negative posters... like myself.

Absolutely not. As stated in my initial post no explanation is necessary, only a vote. If you feel you have to explain that's up to you.

The poll results thus far are about what I expected. Some people have patience and while there may be some red flags and are willing to see how it plays out, but are open to upgrades.

Others see absolute problems, can't wait for the season to end and have identified the players they feel are holding us back and want Stan to make some moves.

We have 5 other threads with people bickering, this is just one to see how many people are in each camp nothing more, nothing less.

I would suggest a less confrontational stance and just vote, and outline why if you wish.

No need to state I'm right your wrong as it has been done to death here.

Vote, and watch the results! Enjoy!

Spider156 · Post #17 » by **Spider156** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:17 am

Finn McCool wrote:I'm curious as to whether this thread was designed to provoke some negative posters... like myself.

It's funny that most of the negative posters have joined this forum 1-2 years ago probably when SVG came in as a coach. That's not a coincidence I don't think

DetPistons04 · Post #18 » by **DetPistons04** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:46 am

I continue to be amazed at the amount of Pistons fans who dislike Reggie Jackson... He's in his first full year as the starting PG for this team and he's never really had these kinds of demands and expectations put on him before. In OKC he basically came off the bench and went after buckets, assists were an afterthought really. On this roster he's been essentially the only playmaker on the floor and been relied on to do a ton for us on the offensive end. Lately KCP, Morris, and Harris have been making some plays, but not really consistently and they don't run the pick and roll constantly like Reggie has to.

Last year I remember people complaining about Reggie's shooting, well this year he's increased his 3 point % from 30% to 36% and he's already attempted 47 more 3 pointers this season so it's not like he's shooting less. He's also been very clutch down the stretch for us in the 4th quarter and OT with scoring and making nearly all of his FT's. I would like to see him get higher assist numbers more consistently, but that's not all on him either. We miss a lot of shots and the offense as a whole is pretty stagnant sometimes. Guys just standing around waiting for Reggie to make a play. I think we've got a bright future with Reggie as our PG. For years I heard people complaining that we needed a guy who can get buckets late in games or "take over" a game for us...

I voted for the 3rd option... I think Reggie is locked in at PG, Harris at PF, and Dre at C. I could see Stanley being our starting SF sooner than later and Morris moving to the bench (he's only making 5 M so no big deal there). I could also see maybe Stanley playing more SG and KCP moving to more of a bench role if he doesn't develop more consistency. Not sure how well Stanley would do night in and night out guarding 2's, but that's yet to be seen really... Harris could play some 3, but I also don't know how he would do guarding 3's all the time either... We have some real depth, flexibility, and young guys with big potential finally and I'm excited about that.

Todd3 · Post #19 » by **Todd3** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:58 am

I don't think a .500 team that wouldn't even be in the playoffs if the season ended today can ever be considered set. They've made big improvements from the 20 win days, but still a big difference from .500 team to contender. It's not just the talent level as much as the fit. I think we have a nice collection of young talent that could possibly develop into a contender talent-wise, but it has to fit together or it won't become a contender. Which is why I'm not into the idea of putting young talent together and letting them grow if their skill sets don't fit from the start. Because then it's not about just developing chemistry and gaining experience, it's hoping players develop talents that they've never been good at. So it's hard to say we're set and it's just a matter of time, when there's no way to know if these players will develop the necessary skills to fit together or not.

This team is essentially built around paint scorers who are inconsistent defensively, surrounded by defenders who are inconsistent shooters. Both groups need to improve in order to become a contender. I'm not concerned about defense though because that issue is simply about will and playing smarter and can be improved with effort. If they wanted they could be a consistent defensive team right now, but the issues on offense would still exist. They can't just will themselves into consistent shooters, and those who think shooting doesn't matter are fooling themselves. Even Stan and Reggie are acknowledging it's an issue after games. It's been an issue all year and it isn't going to change on it's own. Either our shooters improve or changes will need to be made to get to the next level.

So I wouldn't say we desperately need changes. We're good enough to be a .500 team and make the playoffs, but if talking about winning a championship, no I don't think experience is the only thing that differentiates GS and SA from the Pistons. It's experience, talent, but most importantly fit. Those teams have players for every role, they all know their role and stay within it, and they all compliment each other. That is what we lack the most in my opinion. Our main guys aren't much younger than the Warriors' and aren't much less talented imo. They don't compliment each other the same though and that is the biggest difference to me. Jerry West and Bob Myers built a real basketball team and we're just a collection of talent right now. Talented enough to win some regular season games here and there, but not a team built to win consistently yet.

JustinSane · Post #20 » by **JustinSane** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:07 am

I'm one of the two to vote that I believe in the starters, and would like to explain that a bit.

Basically, I believe we can't realistically hope to upgrade from them (I count Johnson as a de-facto sixth starter, Ginobli style) with the resources available to the team. There isn't a stockpile of future firsts like the Celtics have. It's unrealistic to hope to sign a star free agent. It's unlikely to draft a star in the mid to late teens or early twenties. I think we are what we are, which is pretty good. Fight for the eighth seed this year, probably fighting for 4-6th next, but not likely to be a legit contender. But that's true of pretty much any team that doesn't have Lebron, Durant, Curry or Popovich.

Camps. Which are you in?