When Will the Clippers Draft Another Player that Gets Minutes?

Quake Griffin · Post #1 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:55 pm

Title

Post #2 » by **QRich3** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:46 pm

Well they'll probably have two picks in the next coming draft, so hopefully then.

I know guys here like to caricaturize Doc and dumb down things so it's easier to know who to hate when they're frustrated, but Doc's developed several high end role players picked in the 20's or the 2nd round before (Tony Allen, Rondo, Perkins, Al Jefferson, Big Baby, West, etc.). It's just a matter of hitting on the right players with the picks.

And with that, I'll let you lot go on with the hate-fest.

nickhx2 · Post #3 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:58 pm

i don't get the point of bringing up those players. danny ainge was the one who drafted those players, was he not?

madmaxmedia · Post #4 » by **madmaxmedia** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:08 pm

Well it does show that despite his tenure here, Doc is not actually allergic to developing and playing young players.

Post #5 » by **QRich3** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:09 pm

The point is pretty obvious, if they pick someone who's good enough, he'll get the minutes next season. If they don't, he won't. That's as straight forward an answer as you can ask for.

nickhx2 · Post #6 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:40 pm

i get the point you're trying to make, i just don't think it's exactly in line with the original question.

while i do think quake's position is that doc doesn't develop players, i don't see this post as a criticism of doc's development. maybe i'm just seeing ghosts and that you're out there defending player development when you are just trying to make a different point.

Wammy Giveaway · Post #7 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:38 pm

Only if somebody higher than Doc told him to give the rookies minutes.

Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Glen Davis, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green were forced minutes. Let me explain: Danny Ainge was general manager when he gave Doc Rivers the coaching job. He told him to play those guys. This was so that Ainge could determine which players were going to be packaged in the fabled farm trades for superstars Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Perkins, Rondo, Tony and Big Baby were the only guys who survived. Ainge was the only general manager Doc could trust - he would never say "no" to him.

TheNewEra · Post #8 » by **TheNewEra** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:15 am

Think there is a article that Doc wanted to playSam Cassell, PJ Brown and James Posey types over younger guys.

Ranma · Post #9 » by **Ranma** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:03 am

We absolutely have to do well in this draft. Doc needs to finally hit on something. The good news is that while this draft is not top-heavy, it is deep where a player who is selected late in the first-round has a pretty good chance of doing better than someone selected way above him. Plus, there's also a good chance that we'll swap our 2nd-round pick with the Nets', which gives us an early 2nd-round selection in a good draft to have one.

In addition to Domantas Sabonis, 1st-round possibilities include Grayson Allen, Taurean Prince, Diamond Stone. Plus, if Doc still isn't inclined to play a rookie, there are plenty of intriguing international prospects for a draft-and-stash pick. The 2nd round has names like Gary Payton II, Chris Caris LeVert, Tyler Ulis. Not all of these prospects may be any good but they're just a few notable names projected to be possibly available for us. There should be no excuses for Doc to whiff again.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FlyByKnite/status/710692521010003968[/tweet]

ejftw · Post #10 » by **ejftw** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:51 am

Sabonis won't be available for our first, but if we are talking pipe dreams, Denzel Valentine would be so damn perfect as our three.

Diamond Stone, Deyonte Davis, Stephen Zimmerman would be some solid first round picks, teamed with Andrew Andrews, Damion Lee or Danual House in the second.

Or go Dwyane Bacon/Taurean Prince in the first, and Ben Bentil, Damion Jones or Kaleb Tarcewiski in the second.

Post #11 » by **QRich3** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:45 am

nickhx2 wrote:i get the point you're trying to make, i just don't think it's exactly in line with the original question.

while i do think quake's position is that doc doesn't develop players, i don't see this post as a criticism of doc's development. maybe i'm just seeing ghosts and that you're out there defending player development when you are just trying to make a different point.

Dunno, I saw it as a pretty obvious "Doc doesn't play rookies" retread, but maybe Quake was actually being critic of our scouting department ability, and he's trying to start a discussion about Jason Piombetti not being able to replicate the success he had as a scouting coordinator when we drafted Bledsoe and Aminu. Or maybe he thinks Gerald Madkins is doing a bad job as director of scouting and it was just pure luck when he found Chase Budinger and Ish Smith at the bottom of the 2nd round back in Houston.

Post #12 » by **QRich3** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:18 am

About the draft itself, I've never been very good at projecting how guys perform at the next level, but there's something about Sabonis that I just don't see translating to the NBA game.

Denzel Valentine is probably gonna be a nice player, but his main advantage is being a playmaking wing with some positional versatility, and I don't know if I see us making the best use of that with our current setup. He'll be gone when we pick though, so it doesn't matter a lot.

I want to think Grayson Allen can be turned into JJ Redick 2.0, but he doesn't seem he'll ever be the shooter JJ is, and most guys his size and athleticism can't overcome the odds the way JJ did.

I love Cheick Diallo if he goes pro and is still available when we pick, he's undersized but guys with his motor and energy rarely do not make it. He's not the fit we need the most, or a guy that you'd think would work in today's game, but I see him being a good bench big man on a good team as soon as two years from now.

Caris Levert could be a good risk to take, he'll probably fall down because of his injury but he might be a good player long term. Or he might have and injury plagued career, who knows.

Onuaku from Louisville could be a good gamble with the Nets pick as a defensive big man project, and he has the balls to shoot FTs underhanded so maybe he convinces DJ too lol. So would Hernangomez from Spain.

Ideally we'd be able to package both picks to move up, I'd really love to get our hands on either Jaylen Brown or Timothe Luwawu, but that doesn't seem very realistic. Taurean Prince could be a decent consolation price instead.

Quake Griffin · Post #13 » by **Quake Griffin** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:39 am

I don't get how one person can defend not having drafted a player that contributes to the team since 2010 (I'm liberally construing Bledsoe and a sliver of Al Farouq as CP3 and JJ).

What other winning franchise is doing that and how is it acceptable for the Clippers?
Unbelievable.

Post #14 » by **QRich3** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:38 pm

lol that's just a pretty hilarious hyperbole. So, you don't count Bledsoe and Aminu even though they turned into Paul and Redick for us via trade. Why not go further? every pick not named Blake/Deandre in the history of this franchise is meaningless since they're not helping us right now!

If you're able to put things into context, it's just two picks not working out: Bullock and Wilcox. And it's not even that clear that they didn't work out. One turned into Austin who is a below average 7th/8th man, reasonable expectation for a 25th pick, and the other turned out into a fringe rotation player, also the reasonable outcome of a 28th pick.

Go one year further and you see we lost the pick that turned into Fab Melo in 2012, is that supposed to be bad too? well, it was a direct trade for the Bledsoe pick the year prior, so no, it was a fleecing of a trade in our favor, actually. The 2011 pick is on Sterling and he's not here anymore, so no use moaning about that. Then in 2010 it's Aminu, who thank god we were able to use to trade for Paul.

There's just no problem with the Clippers recent draft history, it's just guys throwing their toys around cause they want to be given success and they want it now. Winning a championship is not easy, you're not entitled to it. These things happen to every franchise, it's not even an occurrence. Teams like Memphis, OKC, Dallas, Miami, have had similar success relative to pick position in the last 5 years.

Quake Griffin · Post #15 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:57 pm

I just said I'm counting Bledsoe and Aminu.

I said since 2010.

Post #16 » by **QRich3** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:17 pm

So, what's the problem then? I just see a pretty successful 5 year span if you count the Aminu and Bledsoe picks, and what they turned into.

Yeah ok you wanted the 25th pick to turn into the piece that lifts us to the championship, that's not how the world works. You get what you spend, and two late 20s picks are worth two average to bad players, pretty much what we got with the last two.

Quake Griffin · Post #17 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:56 pm

No, I wanted one of the picks to turn into a contributor - somebody who brings something of quality to the basketball team.

Yes, I wanted it to happen in the 2013 and the 2014 draft....Allen Crabbe and Kyle Anderson specifically and respectively.
It is frustrating to see teams like Portland and SAS deal with the ups and downs of those guys' performance initially (and currently too) and watch them become solid contributors only to watch our team not attempt to develop any of our players, trade them for Austin Rivers, and have them becoming Iowa and Idaho Hall of Famers etc. etc.

Even a POS player like Anthony Roberson can play somewhat of a defensive ace for the OKC Thunder. The already electric Westbrook with his endless athleticism has a 6'6" SG (who sucks on offense admittedly) who can give him spells on defense and check CP3....who can run around and chase Redick. The Clippers have????? Oh that's right....lip service....lip service that picks at that point in the draft dont usually work.

The team doesn't practice a lot. Doc doesn't play the rookies. How the hell are they supposed to develop Q? How in the hell are we suppose dot see what they have or even if they have potential? What kind of environment are we fostering here in terms of player development? The only player who gets to have his "i'm young and I suck at basketball" training wheels on the basketball floor for the CLippers is Austin Rivers??

And while all I'm getting is lip service, all I'm seeing is EVERY WESTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDER lapping us with....*drumroll* contributions (not a piece that's lifting them to a title) from players at the end of the first round or later.

There is no excuse.
You sign CP3 through his age 33 season and give up a 2015 pick for Doc, the 2013 and 2014 drafts become vital to your organization AS SOON as those happen...and do we have any reason to be optimistic for the 2016 draft? I'm sure you'll tell me that we do even though everything youve been saying up until this point suggest that we dont.

LACtdom · Post #18 » by **LACtdom** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:13 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
Even a POS player like Anthony Roberson can play somewhat of a defensive ace for the OKC Thunder. The already electric Westbrook with his endless athleticism has a 6'6" SG (who sucks on offense admittedly) who can give him spells on defense and check CP3....who can run around and chase Redick. The Clippers have????? Oh that's right....lip service....lip service that picks at that point in the draft dont usually work.

The team doesn't practice a lot. Doc doesn't play the rookies. How the hell are they supposed to develop Q? How in the hell are we suppose dot see what they have or even if they have potential? What kind of environment are we fostering here in terms of player development? The only player who gets to have his "i'm young and I suck at basketball" training wheels on the basketball floor for the CLippers is Austin Rivers??

And while all I'm getting is lip service, all I'm seeing is EVERY WESTERN CONFERENCE CONTENDER lapping us with....*drumroll* contributions (not a piece that's lifting them to a title) from players at the end of the first round or later.

First of all, I would gladly have Roberson on this team for the same reasons you have stated.

Playoff success is more than just having the stars / 'Big Three' formula. A big factor is how well you can get the full potential / production out of the rest of the team. I feel as though Doc doesn't appreciate this. He recruits players like Smith and Lance and gives them 0 guidance and ditches them when they don't fit. You don't acquire those 'surprise guys' who, for a few games in the playoffs, go to the next level, you have to create them.

MartinToVaught · Post #19 » by **MartinToVaught** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:59 am

Hopefully when Glenn is finally given his well deserved pink slip after another playoff flameout. It's clear he's unable to draft or develop talent.

Post #20 » by **QRich3** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:21 am

Oh ok, so it WAS another "Doc doesn't play rookies" thread in the end. Sprinkled with a bit of "Doc doesn't practice" baseless speculation and a bit of embellishment to make other teams picks look like gold :noway:

It's ok, it's obvious you guys all think this one guy that appears on your TV complaining to the refs is the one single reason for everything bad that happens to the Clippers, so I'm probably the contrarían one here. I did give an opening to discuss other aspects of our scouting staff, but it's obvious everything ends in a very simplistic "it's Doc's fault" around here. And a lot of it is, but it's hard to have a decent discussion about anything here without ending in the same old moaning about Doc circlejerk.