Split(s) on the board. How do you see it?

[Todd3]

I'm one of the two to vote that I believe in the starters, and would like to explain that a bit.

Basically, I believe we can't realistically hope to upgrade from them (I count Johnson as a de-facto sixth starter, Ginobli style) with the resources available to the team. There isn't a stockpile of future firsts like the Celtics have. It's unrealistic to hope to sign a star free agent. It's unlikely to draft a star in the mid to late teens or early twenties. I think we are what we are, which is pretty good. Fight for the eighth seed this year, probably fighting for 4-6th next, but not likely to be a legit contender. But that's true of pretty much any team that doesn't have Lebron, Durant, Curry or Popovich.

You can trade quantity for quality though. Like we did for Rasheed, the Knicks-Nuggets deal for Melo, the Celtics/Lakers deals for KG/Pau etc. Those types of deals for stars come available quite often, where a team is ready to rebuild and willing to deal their star for a package of young talent + picks. Which we actually are in better position than most teams to do, and imo that is how this team is more likely to be completed vs just hoping these current guys fit together one day. Stan has always said he's willing to go all in on a trade for a star if it's the final piece, but that we weren't at that point yet, but I think with Tobias we are getting close to that point and have the assets to do it now.

[Finn McCool]

I'm curious as to whether this thread was designed to provoke some negative posters... like myself.

It's funny that most of the negative posters have joined this forum 1-2 years ago probably when SVG came in as a coach. That's not a coincidence I don't think

I'm not here to create disharmony. I'm part of the older crowd. I've been a member of another Pistons message board much longer than you have been one here.

As far as joining this site... well, when I first started reading through the threads, I had issues with this site attacking my computer. It's older too. I've installed some safeguards since.

[Finn McCool]

Absolutely not. As stated in my initial post no explanation is necessary, only a vote. If you feel you have to explain that's up to you.

The poll results thus far are about what I expected. Some people have patience and while there may be some red flags and are willing to see how it plays out, but are open to upgrades.

Others see absolute problems, can't wait for the season to end and have identified the players they feel are holding us back and want Stan to make some moves.

We have 5 other threads with people bickering, this is just one to see how many people are in each camp nothing more, nothing less.

I would suggest a less confrontational stance and just vote, and outline why if you wish.

No need to state I'm right your wrong as it has been done to death here.

Vote, and watch the results! Enjoy!

Thank you. It's just that I've noticed several comments from what I believe are hypersensitive members, who seem to take disparaging comments aimed at a couple players, personal.

My preferences may differ substantially from some others.

I like the bench/2nd unit(Blake, Johnson, Bullock, Tolliver & Baynes). I might be one of the few who do.

[tmorgan]

Absolutely not. As stated in my initial post no explanation is necessary, only a vote. If you feel you have to explain that's up to you.

The poll results thus far are about what I expected. Some people have patience and while there may be some red flags and are willing to see how it plays out, but are open to upgrades.

Others see absolute problems, can't wait for the season to end and have identified the players they feel are holding us back and want Stan to make some moves.

We have 5 other threads with people bickering, this is just one to see how many people are in each camp nothing more, nothing less.

I would suggest a less confrontational stance and just vote, and outline why if you wish.

No need to state I'm right your wrong as it has been done to death here.

Vote, and watch the results! Enjoy!

Thank you. It's just that I've noticed several comments from what I believe are hypersensitive members, who seem to take disparaging comments aimed at a couple players, personal.

My preferences may differ substantially from some others.

I like the bench/2nd unit(Blake, Johnson, Bullock, Tolliver & Baynes). I might be one of the few who do.

Other than Blake, I'm with you. I assume Mook will be a bench guy next year, giving us two high quality bench guys in Morris and Baynes. Bullock has a chance to be a third, we'll see how he does. Tolliver could be improved upon, because his skill set is very narrow, and Blake is on his last legs in terms of NBA-level athleticism. If we move SJ into the starting lineup and get a better backup 4 and 1, we're looking pretty good. How good that will be depends on additional development from EVERYONE, but it's possible that that team could be a contender two years from now.

[zeebneeb]

I'm one of the two to vote that I believe in the starters, and would like to explain that a bit.

Basically, I believe we can't realistically hope to upgrade from them (I count Johnson as a de-facto sixth starter, Ginobli style) with the resources available to the team. There isn't a stockpile of future firsts like the Celtics have. It's unrealistic to hope to sign a star free agent. It's unlikely to draft a star in the mid to late teens or early twenties. I think we are what we are, which is pretty good. Fight for the eighth seed this year, probably fighting for 4-6th next, but not likely to be a legit contender. But that's true of pretty much any team that doesn't have Lebron, Durant, Curry or Popovich.

You can trade quantity for quality though. Like we did for Rasheed, the Knicks-Nuggets deal for Melo, the Celtics/Lakers deals for KG/Pau etc. Those types of deals for stars come available quite often, where a team is ready to rebuild and willing to deal their star for a package of young talent + picks. Which we actually are in better position than most teams to do, and imo that is how this team is more likely to be completed vs just hoping these current guys fit together one day. Stan has always said he's willing to go all in on a trade for a star if it's the final piece, but that we weren't at that point yet, but I think with Tobias we are getting close to that point and have the assets to do it now.

I agree. I honestly feel that if we placed the right starting PF next to Andre this team could be an absolute wrecking ball on the league. Could it be Harris or Morris? I am not sold but in todays NBA I just dont know.

I like to imagine a player like Willie Stein but with a jumper. Imagine a still spread floor, but with a shot-blocking defensive hound in a PF. It would be an bigger version of the WallaceX2.

Like I said though, I really dont have a grasp on this team yet and just how good they can be, as is. I know this because every single time a turn a game on, I honestly dont know if we are going to win or lose no matter the opposing team. Teams that have reached a certain maturity in their development know when to make a run, when its winning time, and how to close out games and poor teams. This one certainly does not.

As for the thread;

Thanks everyone for participating and it would seem that thru all the arguing and bickering we are all(save for the absolute troll types)on the same page here;

Unsure

Lets hope the team makes some strides and makes the playoffs!

[In SVG We Trust]

In this days, nobody can be certain about if one player will be a star or not. Look at the prime of Curry, he was a great player, but not at this ridiculous level. Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard?

I mean, maybe in 2 years Harris is our franchise player and a 25-8-5 player (very improbable). There are good players and bad players, but nowadays is all about development, stay in the right team at the right time and the work ethic of the players.

[fekz]

I'm one of the two to vote that I believe in the starters, and would like to explain that a bit.

Basically, I believe we can't realistically hope to upgrade from them (I count Johnson as a de-facto sixth starter, Ginobli style) with the resources available to the team. There isn't a stockpile of future firsts like the Celtics have. It's unrealistic to hope to sign a star free agent. It's unlikely to draft a star in the mid to late teens or early twenties. I think we are what we are, which is pretty good. Fight for the eighth seed this year, probably fighting for 4-6th next, but not likely to be a legit contender. But that's true of pretty much any team that doesn't have Lebron, Durant, Curry or Popovich.

You can trade quantity for quality though. Like we did for Rasheed, the Knicks-Nuggets deal for Melo, the Celtics/Lakers deals for KG/Pau etc. Those types of deals for stars come available quite often, where a team is ready to rebuild and willing to deal their star for a package of young talent + picks. Which we actually are in better position than most teams to do, and imo that is how this team is more likely to be completed vs just hoping these current guys fit together one day. Stan has always said he's willing to go all in on a trade for a star if it's the final piece, but that we weren't at that point yet, but I think with Tobias we are getting close to that point and have the assets to do it now.

I agree. I honestly feel that if we placed the right starting PF next to Andre this team could be an absolute wrecking ball on the league. Could it be Harris or Morris? I am not sold but in todays NBA I just dont know.

I like to imagine a player like Willie Stein but with a jumper. Imagine a still spread floor, but with a shot-blocking defensive hound in a PF. It would be an bigger version of the WallaceX2.

Like I said though, I really dont have a grasp on this team yet and just how good they can be, as is. I know this because every single time a turn a game on, I honestly dont know if we are going to win or lose no matter the opposing team. Teams that have reached a certain maturity in their development know when to make a run, when its winning time, and how to close out games and poor teams. This one certainly does not.

As for the thread;

Thanks everyone for participating and it would seem that thru all the arguing and bickering we are all(save for the absolute troll types)on the same page here;

Unsure

Lets hope the team makes some strides and makes the playoffs!

This is why I like Marvin Williams so much. If this isn't just a contract year heist, we could run him at the 4 either off the bench as a super sub or in the starting lineup. He'd be Tolliver on steroids. Our lineups would be crazy versatile.

Go ahead and shoot me, but I'd love to have Augustin back if we could get him cheap too. He wasn't perfect, but he played well here.

[RSCD3_]

We need changes eventually because nobody on our roster is a second offensive option on a championship team.

Maybe stanley can be a two eventually but it's much harder to replicate our 2004 team nowadays. We need either someone in the mold of a kobe bryant or brandoy roy who can out pressure on the interior, get to line and draw fouls consistenly or damian lillard/chauncey billups type who can play make and hit threes really consistently.


A bonafide offensive star at the 1 or 2 or 3 is what we need.

[flow]

Our current starting 5 isn't bad, but it's not title-contending. So I voted 'needs changes.'

The starting 5 doesn't have enough consistent shooting to contend in this 4 out, 1 in system. I'd love to see what Larry Brown could do with this team, to be honest. Less emphasis on spreading out shooters on the perimeter and more emphasis on ball/off ball movement/working the ball inward/making the extra pass/getting the ball to the rim. I also wouldn't mind seeing KCP running through a gauntlet of screens, wearing down his defender, like Rip did. But I digress.

[Liqourish]

I believe our starters could be set, but only if we get growth from those players. IMO, Dre and Reggie are our 1/2 options. Mook/Tobias are our 3/4 and play well together. KCP is our glue guy that is our defensive anchor. My main concern is our depth on the bench. I think PG and possibly PF are our main concerns. However, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in someone if it were a slam dunk upgrade. But I don't see any available right now for us.

[RSCD3_]

Our current starting 5 isn't bad, but it's not title-contending. So I voted 'needs changes.'

The starting 5 doesn't have enough consistent shooting to contend in this 4 out, 1 in system. I'd love to see what Larry Brown could do with this team, to be honest. Less emphasis on spreading out shooters on the perimeter and more emphasis on ball/off ball movement/working the ball inward/making the extra pass/getting the ball to the rim. I also wouldn't mind seeing KCP running through a gauntlet of screens, wearing down his defender, like Rip did. But I digress.

4 out 1 in doesn't mean everyone with their hands on their hips watching dre, look at GSW their ball movement involves lots of dribble penetration and screens under the three point line.