Mirotic12 wrote:Spain has many guards that are more athletic than Rubio and Joseph. By Euroleague standards, or even ACB/Eurocup standards, Joseph (Rubio even more so) is a fairly average athlete for a main rotation guard.
As far as Spain's guards go.....
I can think of,
Pau Ribas
Alex Abrines
Guillem Vives
Saul Blanco
Quino Colom
Rudy Fernandez
Marc Garcia
Sergio Llull
Xavi Rabaseda
Victor Sada
Every single one of them is more athletic than someone like Joseph or Rubio, and in some cases way more athletic. Obviously only some of them would play at any single tournament, but they have all played with Spain before, or at least been in the training camp (except Garcia I think).
Also you have Sergio Rodriguez, that isn't necessarily more athletic than Joseph overall (they are probably about the same overall), but he's definitely quicker and faster than Joseph. One or the other is better at certain aspects athletically, but overall it's about the same.
There is a huge myth in USA/Canada that Europe has way less athletic players. It's not true, and in some cases it's actually the opposite, with Europe having more athletic players than the NBA does depending on roles and positions. That's because for example, many of the most athletic players from around the world are not considered by NBA teams, especially there is a certain stigma attached to super freak Americans that don't fit the mold the NBA likes to put players in (they are "raw", etc.). Most of these guys are in Europe, and usually end up in Euroleague, after developing their skills in lower European leagues. The same for many freak athlete players from Africa. They end up in Euroleague, after many years of developing their game in lower European leagues. They were never looked at by NBA teams, or the NBA did not want to develop them.
Finally, there is at the minimum a xenophobic element to this, and probably a racist one, where NBA teams go for "athletic Europeans" only of a certain kind of player. The NBA is only interested in some very, very specific type of athletic European player and has zero interest in other types. But the NBA markets it then to US and Canadian markets that the athletic types of European players they draft or whatever are "the only athletic European players". The problem is there are hundreds upon hundreds of terrific athletic players in Europe that the NBA pretends don't exist. The NBA isn't bringing in for example a very athletic lock down 2/3 wing defender from Europe...they simply get Americans for that. They then pretend such players don't exist in Europe. Same with how the NBA does not want super athletic shoot first, score first, attack the rim point guards from Europe. I am talking guys much more athletic than Parker ever was. Instead, they target just Americans for those types of NBA roles. But again, the marketing implies it is because such players don't exist in Europe, which is simply is not true.
Most of the European players drafted every year by the NBA could not make a list of most athletic players in Europe, and often not even on their own team. The NBA implies they are always drafting the most athletic in Europe ever year. It's just a BS nonsense marketing gimmick. Guards like Huertas and Prigioni struggled mightily on defense in Euroleague the last few seasons they played there, because they could not compete athletically anymore. They go to the NBA, get playing time, and again the implication is there are no athletes in Euroleague, as some even claim these were "good athletes" in Euroleague.
For example, a team can't have any real success in Euroleague these days without at least 1, and more like 2, very athletic centers. However, the stereotype in USA/Canada is that there are almost zero athletic bigs in Europe. The reality is the opposite, NBA teams can do well, even sometimes thrive with slow, plodding big men, while it's almost impossible to win with those kinds of players in Euroleague, even if they are individually dominant around the basket. Of course it's harder to do so now in the NBA, than it used to be, but understand it's basically impossible to do so now in Euroleague. In the NBA someone like Marc Gasol is thought of as a big plus for a team defense, while in Euroleague he would be a real liability because he could not defend at all against the offense systems and athletic centers Euroleague teams use. Just think of it this way, about 2/3s of the teams in Euroleague are like the Warriors, only not as good at shooting, but BETTER athletically. You can't compete in that league without at least 2 great athletes on the court these days.
The way European basketball is viewed and stereotyped by US/Canada is that it is still the same as it was in the late 1980s to early 1990s. The high level game in Europe today is dramatically different from any stereotype USA/Canada has of it, and has been for about the last 5-10 years, especially in the last 5 years or so. There is an enormous emphasis placed on athletic ability in today's high level European basketball, probably more than in the NBA even, but the stereotype continues to be that it's not athletic at all, even that it's say less athletic than NCAA DI.
This mainly applies to Euroleague and big European clubs in general, and to a lesser extent then leagues like Eurocup, ACB, Adriatic League, Greek League, Italian League (which is all about athleticism almost solely), and then some other leagues like Turkish League, French League, that are starting to focus more on athleticism. Athleticism obviously lessens a bit with each lower level league (although Spanish, Italian, Adriatic, and Greek leagues are very athletic also), and of course at smaller leagues it is less. But definitely at Euroleague level there is an emphasis on athleticism and many teams are obsessed with finding the most athletic players they can get from all over the world. Which again, in a lot of cases are players that are superior American athletes, but the NBA did not want to develop. So they have to spend years in smaller leagues developing in Europe, then end up in Euroleague. For whatever reason, none of this seems to have been passed on to anyone in US/Canada sports culture on the state of European basketball, as it is always talked about like it is still 1992.
Basically, I don't think a team like Brazil would make it into a top 16 list athletically if it was in EuroBasket. Argentina might, but it's debatable. If they use more of their younger players I think they might be around top 12-15 athletically in a EuroBasket, but not if they used more of their older players. Euroleague is for sure a lot more athletic than a EuroBasket, World Cup, or Olympics. Which means the talent pool of athletic players is much bigger than people just watching national teams would realize. People in US/Canada tend to think of France's team and league as the most athletic in Europe. But if you watched Euroleague regularly, you would know it's not even close to that. I would put Serbia's talent pool for example, as being vastly superior to France's based on athleticism, and plenty of others are just as athletic. As far as European national leagues go, French League is quite down the list athletically in Europe, and it's mostly comprised of French and American players, and all the best athletes from France's and Belgium's territories around the world.
Just think of it this way, almost every team in the Italian League plays with several 6-8 to 6-10 great athletes at the forward and center spots. It's not even conceivable for the NBA to be like that, yet the concept in USA/Canada is that NBA is miles away athletically. It's just not true. Now, is the NBA miles better than the Italian League? Yeah, I think it is, especially because the Italian League has dropped a lot in level in recent years, but from a strictly athletic standpoint, it is not.
Not sure athletic is translating well.
