Official Draft Thread 2015-16

[Gomes3PC]

the draft is a complete crap shoot. I'm not worried one bit. Unless it's top 2 we are definitely trading it. Ainge may still opt to trade a top 2 player. I've always wanted to see Ainge work out the top guys in the draft and make his own determination what to do. We've never had a shot because the top guys wouldn't want to risk there spots. Either way, this off-season is finally Fireworks.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. GSW built a title juggernaut mostly with picks outside the top-5. Same with many of the Spurs stars though they clearly got lucky with Duncan 20 years ago. Smart teams draft well and find better talent relative to their draft position.

[Crossy2008]

The other important thing to note is that both Curry and Redick had to completely reinvent themselves in the NBA to become anything more than 8th man one-way scorers a la Jordan Crawford. Curry dramatically improved his handle and got stronger, while Redick became probably the best off-ball player outside Ray Allen in the last 15+ years. Both those guys struggled mightily initially transitioning to the NBA, especially Redick.

For every Redick or Curry, there is a Jimmer or a Morrison. Lots of great college shooters don't translate - not because they can't shoot, but because in the NBA that is not a sufficient threshold to survive.

The point is, yes, Hield can shoot, and that will probably translate to the NBA. But will his defense, ballhandling, and passing be up to snuff? He's going to be undersized for a SG, can he find a way to get his shot off against a guard like Klay Thompson or Avery Bradley? And defensively, is he going to hold up well enough so he's not just a basket-trader a la Crawford?

You'd think after watching Crowder, Smart and Bradley for the last 1.5-3 years that folks would start to understand that succeeding as a perimeter player in the NBA is more than just scoring.

I am not dismissing Hield but he has a lot more questions about his length, defensive abilities, ballhandling, etc. than you can justify taking in the top-5 of even a weak draft. Maybe in the 7-12 range like where Curry/Redick went.

EDIT - add Dougie Buckets as another guy who had to completely reinvent his body and game to thrive in the NBA. I'm not saying Hield can't do it, but let's not assume that you can just plug Hield in Day 1 and he'll be a positive contributor. I think you can say that at least for the likes of Ingram, Simmons, Dunn, and probably Murray/Poeltl (crappy Zags game notwithstanding). Sounds like Bender too, though I defer to guys like Fischella on Euros.

This argument may be less relevant now than it was when Curry and Redick came into the league. My reasoning behind it is Booker in Phoenix. Add in the current state of two guards in the NBA, and maybe Dunn Hield can immediately transition to the NBA. Booker has a tremendous shot and maybe it is just that good that it has worked out for him. Regardless of how Dunn Hield works out, the argument made as to why Dunn Hield won't translate could have been made for Booker last year and it would have not been a very good argument.

edit: Somehow I mixed Dunn with Hield

[robbie84]

The other important thing to note is that both Curry and Redick had to completely reinvent themselves in the NBA to become anything more than 8th man one-way scorers a la Jordan Crawford. Curry dramatically improved his handle and got stronger, while Redick became probably the best off-ball player outside Ray Allen in the last 15+ years. Both those guys struggled mightily initially transitioning to the NBA, especially Redick.

For every Redick or Curry, there is a Jimmer or a Morrison. Lots of great college shooters don't translate - not because they can't shoot, but because in the NBA that is not a sufficient threshold to survive.

The point is, yes, Hield can shoot, and that will probably translate to the NBA. But will his defense, ballhandling, and passing be up to snuff? He's going to be undersized for a SG, can he find a way to get his shot off against a guard like Klay Thompson or Avery Bradley? And defensively, is he going to hold up well enough so he's not just a basket-trader a la Crawford?

You'd think after watching Crowder, Smart and Bradley for the last 1.5-3 years that folks would start to understand that succeeding as a perimeter player in the NBA is more than just scoring.

I am not dismissing Hield but he has a lot more questions about his length, defensive abilities, ballhandling, etc. than you can justify taking in the top-5 of even a weak draft. Maybe in the 7-12 range like where Curry/Redick went.

EDIT - add Dougie Buckets as another guy who had to completely reinvent his body and game to thrive in the NBA. I'm not saying Hield can't do it, but let's not assume that you can just plug Hield in Day 1 and he'll be a positive contributor. I think you can say that at least for the likes of Ingram, Simmons, Dunn, and probably Murray/Poeltl (crappy Zags game notwithstanding). Sounds like Bender too, though I defer to guys like Fischella on Euros.

Hield's offensive game is already better than Crowder/AB, Smart's. His ball handling, pick and roll and screen runs are in another league compared to those current C's.
The thinking is that because of his incredible work ethic, IQ and enormous wingspan that he'll be at least an average DeRozan level defender.

I don't understand why so many people think Hield being a 4 year player is a negative.
For some guys it works out better ala Lilliard.
The nit picking us ridiculous.

[jmr07019]

I don't have a strong opinion on Hield but here is a statistical chart of the top 50/40/80 seasons in terms of total points scored.

The list goes:

Redick
McDermott
Curry
Durant
Hield

So I don't know how the various stat models rank him as I haven't looked recently but he is having a significant season historically, especially since his season sent over yet and he may move up the list.



http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=&year_max=&conf_id=&school_id=&class_is_fr=Y&class_is_so=Y&class_is_jr=Y&class_is_sr=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&games_type=A&qual=&c1stat=fg2_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=.5&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.4&c3stat=ft_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.8&c4stat=pts_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=20&order_by=pts

Grayson Allen is 12th on that list. Didn't realize he was having such a good season.

[BfB]

Look, this isn't to demean Hield. I don't think he is Jimmer 2.0. Another advantage is he is doing this in the Big XII vs. the WCC like Jimmer and Ammo. He's a lot closer to Curry/Redick than Jimmer/Ammo, but I wouldn't count on him making the leaps and bounds that Curry/Redick did in the NBA. That's just a level of work ethic that's unreasonable to expect out of any draft pick.

Most likely, he turns into someone like Eric Gordon. That's not bad but hardly a guy you clamor for.

Hield's work ethic will be one of his plus NBA attributes. What we don't know is the frequency his skills and athletic attributes will allow him to get quality shots off at.

Hield's release is pretty quick. I think he'll improve his footwork as he adjusts to the defensive pressure of the pro game.

Is that 15ppg or 20ppg good? Tough to sat at this point, but he brings an NBA caliber skill - wont bust.

[DoubleHappiness]

He won't bust but he's not Devin Booker. Devin is 6'6", ridiculously fluid and is only now 19.

Also, as stated earlier, expecting him to be Steph is pretty daunting given the fanatical work ethic. A lot of guys that are good shooters at 22 years old don't become studs. That doesn't mean he can't be a plus rotation player on a very good team but that's not who you want at pick 3.

It took JJ A LOT of work to get to where he is. Dude had no problems with ego or adapting his game. I'm not saying Buddy will, but it's tough for super hyped college guys used to being the man to do so.

[robbie84]

He won't bust but he's not Devin Booker. Devin is 6'6", ridiculously fluid and is only now 19.

Also, as stated earlier, expecting him to be Steph is pretty daunting given the fanatical work ethic. A lot of guys that are good shooters at 22 years old don't become studs. That doesn't mean he can't be a plus rotation player on a very good team but that's not who you want at pick 3.

It took JJ A LOT of work to get to where he is. Dude had no problems with ego or adapting his game. I'm not saying Buddy will, but it's tough for super hyped college guys used to being the man to do so.

Hield has a slightly longer wingspan than Booker FYI.
Theres a 2 inch height difference at most.

I think the main point for me is that it's simply ridiculous to say that Hield isn't a lottery pick.

Work ethic, proven shooting and IQ with an NBA wingspan. There's plenty of All Star potential there.

[Gomes3PC]

Look, this isn't to demean Hield. I don't think he is Jimmer 2.0. Another advantage is he is doing this in the Big XII vs. the WCC like Jimmer and Ammo. He's a lot closer to Curry/Redick than Jimmer/Ammo, but I wouldn't count on him making the leaps and bounds that Curry/Redick did in the NBA. That's just a level of work ethic that's unreasonable to expect out of any draft pick.

Most likely, he turns into someone like Eric Gordon. That's not bad but hardly a guy you clamor for.

Hield's work ethic will be one of his plus NBA attributes. What we don't know is the frequency his skills and athletic attributes will allow him to get quality shots off at.

Hield's release is pretty quick. I think he'll improve his footwork as he adjusts to the defensive pressure of the pro game.

Is that 15ppg or 20ppg good? Tough to sat at this point, but he brings an NBA caliber skill - wont bust.

Never said he would. I do agree that his work ethic will shine through in the workouts. I think he needs to show in workouts against other top competition that he can consistently get loose on and off the ball. He can do it against decent college guards, but doing it against a guy like Ingram with his wingspan or Dunn with his quickness is a different question - those are the types of guys who will guard Hield at the next level.

Again, like I said, I think his baseline comp is someone on the level of Eric Gordon, a good 2nd/3rd scorer who is a defensive liability. Maybe his work ethic pushes him to be better than that, or maybe his lack of great athleticism causes him to be too much of a one-way player.

I like Buddy and want him to succeed, I just don't want people to see a 4-year player lighting up the NCAAs as a sure thing, which it seems some folks here do believe. "Won't bust" is accurate - worst case is IMO a 7th/8th man shooter like Gary Neal. That's still useful.

[Edug27]

Jay Bilas made an interesting point this morning on Mike and Mike regarding the Simmons vs Ingram debate...

He said if both players switched teams then this wouldn't even be a debate at all. We'd be talking about how great Simmons is, and how "that Ingram kid from LSU was sleep walking through games". He said Ingram wouldn't have the same success in LSU in that environment. He wouldn't be able to carry that squad.

You may not agree, but it was an interesting point nonetheless.

[Kingshadaine]

The other important thing to note is that both Curry and Redick had to completely reinvent themselves in the NBA to become anything more than 8th man one-way scorers a la Jordan Crawford. Curry dramatically improved his handle and got stronger, while Redick became probably the best off-ball player outside Ray Allen in the last 15+ years. Both those guys struggled mightily initially transitioning to the NBA, especially Redick.

For every Redick or Curry, there is a Jimmer or a Morrison. Lots of great college shooters don't translate - not because they can't shoot, but because in the NBA that is not a sufficient threshold to survive.

The point is, yes, Hield can shoot, and that will probably translate to the NBA. But will his defense, ballhandling, and passing be up to snuff? He's going to be undersized for a SG, can he find a way to get his shot off against a guard like Klay Thompson or Avery Bradley? And defensively, is he going to hold up well enough so he's not just a basket-trader a la Crawford?

You'd think after watching Crowder, Smart and Bradley for the last 1.5-3 years that folks would start to understand that succeeding as a perimeter player in the NBA is more than just scoring.

I am not dismissing Hield but he has a lot more questions about his length, defensive abilities, ballhandling, etc. than you can justify taking in the top-5 of even a weak draft. Maybe in the 7-12 range like where Curry/Redick went.

EDIT - add Dougie Buckets as another guy who had to completely reinvent his body and game to thrive in the NBA. I'm not saying Hield can't do it, but let's not assume that you can just plug Hield in Day 1 and he'll be a positive contributor. I think you can say that at least for the likes of Ingram, Simmons, Dunn, and probably Murray/Poeltl (crappy Zags game notwithstanding). Sounds like Bender too, though I defer to guys like Fischella on Euros.

Hield's offensive game is already better than Crowder/AB, Smart's. His ball handling, pick and roll and screen runs are in another league compared to those current C's.
The thinking is that because of his incredible work ethic, IQ and enormous wingspan that he'll be at least an average DeRozan level defender.

I don't understand why so many people think Hield being a 4 year player is a negative.
For some guys it works out better ala Lilliard.
The nit picking us ridiculous.

Curry didn't dramatically improve his handle, it did improve but dramatically is definitely over exaggerating, he always had good handle and vision, he showed that at davidson

[SmartWentCrazy]

The other important thing to note is that both Curry and Redick had to completely reinvent themselves in the NBA to become anything more than 8th man one-way scorers a la Jordan Crawford. Curry dramatically improved his handle and got stronger, while Redick became probably the best off-ball player outside Ray Allen in the last 15+ years. Both those guys struggled mightily initially transitioning to the NBA, especially Redick.

For every Redick or Curry, there is a Jimmer or a Morrison. Lots of great college shooters don't translate - not because they can't shoot, but because in the NBA that is not a sufficient threshold to survive.

The point is, yes, Hield can shoot, and that will probably translate to the NBA. But will his defense, ballhandling, and passing be up to snuff? He's going to be undersized for a SG, can he find a way to get his shot off against a guard like Klay Thompson or Avery Bradley? And defensively, is he going to hold up well enough so he's not just a basket-trader a la Crawford?

You'd think after watching Crowder, Smart and Bradley for the last 1.5-3 years that folks would start to understand that succeeding as a perimeter player in the NBA is more than just scoring.

I am not dismissing Hield but he has a lot more questions about his length, defensive abilities, ballhandling, etc. than you can justify taking in the top-5 of even a weak draft. Maybe in the 7-12 range like where Curry/Redick went.

EDIT - add Dougie Buckets as another guy who had to completely reinvent his body and game to thrive in the NBA. I'm not saying Hield can't do it, but let's not assume that you can just plug Hield in Day 1 and he'll be a positive contributor. I think you can say that at least for the likes of Ingram, Simmons, Dunn, and probably Murray/Poeltl (crappy Zags game notwithstanding). Sounds like Bender too, though I defer to guys like Fischella on Euros.

Hield's offensive game is already better than Crowder/AB, Smart's. His ball handling, pick and roll and screen runs are in another league compared to those current C's.
The thinking is that because of his incredible work ethic, IQ and enormous wingspan that he'll be at least an average DeRozan level defender.

I don't understand why so many people think Hield being a 4 year player is a negative.
For some guys it works out better ala Lilliard.
The nit picking us ridiculous.

Stop it. He is not already better offensively than Crowder or Bradley. Those two guys have proven that they can each score 15 a game for a playoff team while also spending large amounts of energy defensively. Hield, at his current level of development, absolutely cannot do that. He may be able to one day, maybe even next year if he pops again over the summer, but he is absolutely not there at the present.

I get that people are overly nitpicking on Hield, but, with comments like that, you're the other extreme.

[ddb]

buddy of mine reached out to me and said to research DeAndre Ayton. My friend saw him up close not too long ago and said he's the next great NBA center. Complete freak of nature. He is draft eligible in 2018. Hopefully the Nets still stink and we still own that pick! He looks super mobile in the highlights... he also was recently named to the First Team in High School as a JUNIOR along with seniors such as Jason Taytum & Josh Jackson, etc

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deandre-ayton

[165bows]

Jay Bilas made an interesting point this morning on Mike and Mike regarding the Simmons vs Ingram debate...

He said if both players switched teams then this wouldn't even be a debate at all. We'd be talking about how great Simmons is, and how "that Ingram kid from LSU was sleep walking through games". He said Ingram wouldn't have the same success in LSU in that environment. He wouldn't be able to carry that squad.

You may not agree, but it was an interesting point nonetheless.

Where did he carry LSU to would be my question.

Saw a tweet the other day that LSU dropped 40ish slots in the overall team rankings (by Kenpom.com) this year from the year before when their top players were Mickey and Jarrell Martin.

[ddb]

Jay Bilas made an interesting point this morning on Mike and Mike regarding the Simmons vs Ingram debate...

He said if both players switched teams then this wouldn't even be a debate at all. We'd be talking about how great Simmons is, and how "that Ingram kid from LSU was sleep walking through games". He said Ingram wouldn't have the same success in LSU in that environment. He wouldn't be able to carry that squad.

You may not agree, but it was an interesting point nonetheless.

Where did he carry LSU to would be my question.

Saw a tweet the other day that LSU dropped 40ish slots in the overall team rankings (by Kenpom.com) this year from the year before when their top players were Mickey and Jarrell Martin.

LSU was terrible this year. Simmons made a bad choice. But it was out of loyalty to his fathers friend who is an assistant coach at LSU. So if you take loyalty into consideration, then maybe we can all view it as a positive. Simmons will be an awesome pro. Needs to extend his range, but I htink he will

[165bows]

buddy of mine reached out to me and said to research DeAndre Ayton. My friend saw him up close not too long ago and said he's the next great NBA center. Complete freak of nature. He is draft eligible in 2018. Hopefully the Nets still stink and we still own that pick! He looks super mobile in the highlights... he also was recently named to the First Team in High School as a JUNIOR along with seniors such as Jason Taytum & Josh Jackson, etc

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/deandre-ayton

Posted a couple of days ago that he is in the Hoop Summit in a couple of weeks. I'd guess he'll be one of the youngest guys.

Not sure what you are hearing but the big rankings sites I've read have said he's got unreal tools and good skill level, but his feel/effort level may be a work in progress, as they say.

[Edug27]

Jay Bilas made an interesting point this morning on Mike and Mike regarding the Simmons vs Ingram debate...

He said if both players switched teams then this wouldn't even be a debate at all. We'd be talking about how great Simmons is, and how "that Ingram kid from LSU was sleep walking through games". He said Ingram wouldn't have the same success in LSU in that environment. He wouldn't be able to carry that squad.

You may not agree, but it was an interesting point nonetheless.

Where did he carry LSU to would be my question.

Saw a tweet the other day that LSU dropped 40ish slots in the overall team rankings (by Kenpom.com) this year from the year before when their top players were Mickey and Jarrell Martin.

LSU was terrible this year. Simmons made a bad choice. But it was out of loyalty to his fathers friend who is an assistant coach at LSU. So if you take loyalty into consideration, then maybe we can all view it as a positive. Simmons will be an awesome pro. Needs to extend his range, but I htink he will

Well, I guess the question was... How much better would Duke make Simmons look .. And how much worse would LSU make Ingram look.

[Wes-J]

Jay Bilas made an interesting point this morning on Mike and Mike regarding the Simmons vs Ingram debate...

He said if both players switched teams then this wouldn't even be a debate at all. We'd be talking about how great Simmons is, and how "that Ingram kid from LSU was sleep walking through games". He said Ingram wouldn't have the same success in LSU in that environment. He wouldn't be able to carry that squad.

You may not agree, but it was an interesting point nonetheless.

I expected much better from Bilas.

[nasbahceltic]

Deandre ayton is gonna be a beast. Dude's potential is through the roof. Skill wise he's like a taller Anthony Davis. I'm really excited about the nets and Memphis picks those years. Funny thing is he and buddy hield are both Bahamians (as am I) Along with Klay Thompson our 2020 Olympics squad is gonna be dope.

[robbie84]

The other important thing to note is that both Curry and Redick had to completely reinvent themselves in the NBA to become anything more than 8th man one-way scorers a la Jordan Crawford. Curry dramatically improved his handle and got stronger, while Redick became probably the best off-ball player outside Ray Allen in the last 15+ years. Both those guys struggled mightily initially transitioning to the NBA, especially Redick.

For every Redick or Curry, there is a Jimmer or a Morrison. Lots of great college shooters don't translate - not because they can't shoot, but because in the NBA that is not a sufficient threshold to survive.

The point is, yes, Hield can shoot, and that will probably translate to the NBA. But will his defense, ballhandling, and passing be up to snuff? He's going to be undersized for a SG, can he find a way to get his shot off against a guard like Klay Thompson or Avery Bradley? And defensively, is he going to hold up well enough so he's not just a basket-trader a la Crawford?

You'd think after watching Crowder, Smart and Bradley for the last 1.5-3 years that folks would start to understand that succeeding as a perimeter player in the NBA is more than just scoring.

I am not dismissing Hield but he has a lot more questions about his length, defensive abilities, ballhandling, etc. than you can justify taking in the top-5 of even a weak draft. Maybe in the 7-12 range like where Curry/Redick went.

EDIT - add Dougie Buckets as another guy who had to completely reinvent his body and game to thrive in the NBA. I'm not saying Hield can't do it, but let's not assume that you can just plug Hield in Day 1 and he'll be a positive contributor. I think you can say that at least for the likes of Ingram, Simmons, Dunn, and probably Murray/Poeltl (crappy Zags game notwithstanding). Sounds like Bender too, though I defer to guys like Fischella on Euros.

Hield's offensive game is already better than Crowder/AB, Smart's. His ball handling, pick and roll and screen runs are in another league compared to those current C's.
The thinking is that because of his incredible work ethic, IQ and enormous wingspan that he'll be at least an average DeRozan level defender.

I don't understand why so many people think Hield being a 4 year player is a negative.
For some guys it works out better ala Lilliard.
The nit picking us ridiculous.

Stop it. He is not already better offensively than Crowder or Bradley. Those two guys have proven that they can each score 15 a game for a playoff team while also spending large amounts of energy defensively. Hield, at his current level of development, absolutely cannot do that. He may be able to one day, maybe even next year if he pops again over the summer, but he is absolutely not there at the present.

I get that people are overly nitpicking on Hield, but, with comments like that, you're the other extreme.

I disagree. Hield does it vs NCAA competition but he's got the ability to create his own shot, score off screens, finish in transition, run the pick and roll and his handles are eons better than both those guys. Obviously those two guys are elite defenders but they are offensive role players. AB and Crowder are spot up jumpshooters/slashers and recently AB has taken it to the rim off the dribble.
Just because they score 15 points a game from set plays with screens and in transition off great defense doesn't mean they are better scorers than Hield. They are good jumpshooters and turn good defense into easy layups but they are not better overall offensive players than Buddy Hield.

[return2glory]

Sabonis with another very strong game with 19 and 17. I've had him in my top 10.