Rudy Gobert: Future DPOY

[meekrab]

It's funny how drastically opinions can vary on something like Kanter vs. Gobert.

[bondom34]

Kanter playing majority of his minutes with the bench players, anyway since you like Gobert so much can you explain why Utah had to bench him last few games and why he had worst +/- on his team last few games ?

Because it is a few games? You can do that for Kevin freakin Durant for a few games. Its Kanter's whole career.

Thanks you explained well " because Kanter " , btw maybe hes got worst +/- this whole season on the Utah starting five, wanna explain again ? wait wait i know bcuz Kanter sucks

He has nothing to do with Kanter. And Gobert is better in on/off than any of Utah's starters. Plus/minus isn't really showing anything unadjusted, and interestingly one of Kanter/Gobert is excellent in APM, one terrible. Guess who's who.

I never said "because Kanter", I explained. He's an awful defender and an OK player, not a starting caliber NBA player or a guy most teams want. But hey, go ahead and believe he's fantastic, when analysts call him the worst contract in the league and Gobert a future star. And Gobert is at least still a positive. Kanter has done that a whopping 1 time his whole career, and it was off the bench. He's a negative player. Nice guy, good at things, not a great player. And not close to close to Gobert.

[Duke4life831]

Gobert is who he is. The dude is a really good rim protector. I'd definitely take him over Kanter and that shouldn't even be a debate. With that said look out for the 18 draft. A kid named Mohamed Bamba has the same wingspan as Gobert but is a much better athlete and a raw but solid offensive game and shootinh form. The kid will be #1 in the draft

[jpengland]

Lol at anyone thinking Kanter is better than Gobert.

Gobert struggled with injury but is still one of the top defensive players in the league by nearly ever metric. He protects the rim phenomenally well.

As for his offense, like the vast majority of centres, he doesn't create his own offense and is relying on PnR, lobs and dump offs, Utah have played the entire season without a first or second string PG, therefore getting few opportunities.

There are very, very few Cs I would take ahead of Gobert if I was building a roster for the medium of long term.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

I agree. I'm not an advanced stats guys, but for some reason Jazz fans love advanced stats to validate their team (who will be lottery again this year). But if you even look at WS, Kanter does better than Gobert in WS.

I don't like advanced stats. I like eye test and film, and when i watch Gobert, he doesn't look impressive, he just looks like a gimmick player. I have watched Horford and Millsap push him around in the paint and have their way with Gobert, and then last night i watched Gobert vs the Thunder and he was just horrible offensively and inept defensively.

Either way you have it, eye test or advanced stats, it both doesn't look good.

Um did you forget the 12th game of the season against your Hawks where we won IN ATLANTA before Rudy was injured and Gobert had the third highest offensive rating (behind Korver and Schroeder) and the best defensive rating in the game?? He went for 11 pts, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3 assists, 2 steals??? Horford was a net negative that game, and Horford does not play well against Gobert. This last game was the only game where Horford has played well against Gobert. BTW, SINCE Gobert has become the starter, Horford averages 13pts, 5 boards against Gobert shooting below 50%, so what are you talking about???

This is what you've taught me, you know one advanced stat where Kanter is better... and you've watched 3 Jazz games (both Hawks games and one Thunder game) and apparently forgot the game where we beat Atlanta in Atlanta, where Gobert was the most impactful player. Last year in the Jazz loss before he became the starter, Gobert had 11 points, 7 rebounds, 4 blocks in 20 minutes and had the highest plus/minus on any team except for Exum.

Also, Gobert last year once he became the starteragainst these same Thunder players went for 20 points, 7 rebounds, 7 blocks, 3 steals, 3 assists and Serge said this about him:

"Gobert was a machine. Serge said in the locker room that he couldn't believe some of the blocks that kid made...and that's coming from the best in the league at it. He's a wall inside."

Scott Brooks about Gobert. Russell Westbrook in particular is the player who Gobert has blocked the most out of any player on any team.

If you swap out Gobert for Kanter, i think it improves the Jazz alittele bit, but it still doesn't push them into the playoffs because they just have too many holes and weaknesses on the team from top to bottom

Hey we actually did the opposite last year where we subbed Gobert for Kanter and were the 2nd best team in net rating after the break and were by far the best defensive team after Gobert started. We are now a top 9 defensive team this year and guess who is the anchor despite missing 20 games and struggling with a knee injury. Go look and see how well Utah defended when Gobert missed 20 games, and despite that we are number 9 in the NBA in defense.

I remember both games. Horford was able to push around Gobert all game long and Gobert's help defense on Millsap was just horrible. Gobert just looked so slow when ever he tried to come over played help defense on Sap and was late on defense most of the time. I remember both Horford and Millsap shooting 60%-70% and scoring with ease, and i also remember Gobert turning the ball over a bunch of times with some bone head plays.

Again he is a gimmick player, tall and long, he is not a defensive force but on a few plays if he is in the right spot he can be disruptive, but the problem is that he is rarely in the right spot at the right time, unlike Mutombo, Ben Wallace, or Rodman in their prime. As a gimmick player, he has limited skills and can only influence the game in limited ways, not with offense, shooting, passing, his mobility is limited and does not have elite or even good vision like Draymond Green, so he is incapable to be an anchor on defense like Green, Mutombo, or Wallace.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahha. He's arguing against facts. You know the Internet records Horford's stats. I can never argue with you again. Horford has played well in one game against Gobert as a starter the other two he played terribly. LOOK IT UP. Somehow Gobert was playing terrible defensive and offense despite Utah out scoring the Hawks aggregate lay while he's been on the court. It's funny how we could out score the Hawks by so much in the first game this year and win while he played being pushed around all game and not defending. It must have been the wind that held Horford to subpar nights and Rudy just happened to be around him.

As much as I'd love to trust your obviously subjective memory as opposed to I don't know... What was recorded I'll take what has been documented. Clearly I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who uses his own memory to judge a player he's seen 4 times play.

[Daddy 801]

This thread confirms a few things I already knew.

People don't really understand some "advanced" stats and still look at the basics like PPG.

People don't take the time to look at how injuries to a team, and/or an individual player, impact their play.

And the new thing I've learned is some Thunder fans seem to not have an understanding of just how bad Kanters defense is.

[HawaiianJazzFan]

It's funny how drastically opinions can vary on something like Kanter vs. Gobert.

I think it depends on if they are from Turkey or not...

[HawaiianJazzFan]

This thread confirms a few things I already knew.

People don't really understand some "advanced" stats and still look at the basics like PPG.

People don't take the time to look at how injuries to a team, and/or an individual player, impact their play.

And the new thing I've learned is some Thunder fans seem to not have an understanding of just how bad Kanters defense is.

I know like wins and losses... that's some advanced stuff there.

[76ciology]

Don't get me wrong, great rim protector C provides great impact and ESPN's DRPM would reflect that. But I don't put too much value on them, in relative of total team's value. Because team's nowadays can neutralize these great rim protector & paint defense bias bigs by forcing them to step out and defend the perimeter and PnR. For instance, hawks is one of the best defensive teams and they don't have great rim protector and Horford is an average rebounder at best.

I like Kanter and do think he is a good big to have against small ball because he can score in a small ball/high offense setting (one of the best roll man and points per shot player in the league) while also grab offensive rebounds (deathpill for small ball IMO). But he's a below average rim protector and that is preventing me from giving confirmation that I'd rather have him than Gobert.

Jazz is better with Gobert providing what most teams need at the C position than Kanter. While Kanter seems like an integral part of OKC's rotation and looks like a good weapon against small ball (with the right line-up). Maybe his scoring, offensive rebounding would eventually compliment Westbrook, KD and Ibaka's rim protection.

[Chi]

This is a fact. It doesn't matter how good of an offensive player or what type of numbers a Center puts up.

If they can't/don't/won't play D you can't win with them. They are absolutely worthless in this league.

Worthless...

[Daddy 801]

This thread confirms a few things I already knew.

People don't really understand some "advanced" stats and still look at the basics like PPG.

People don't take the time to look at how injuries to a team, and/or an individual player, impact their play.

And the new thing I've learned is some Thunder fans seem to not have an understanding of just how bad Kanters defense is.

I know like wins and losses... that's some advanced stuff there.

Yeah, Kanter is clearly the reason the Thunder have all those Wins. Absolutely nothing to do with having the second best offensive player in the league and one of the most explosive and dynamic PG's to ever play the game.

[Jables]

Gobert >>>>>>>>> Kanter. It is not even close. Gobert is kind of a less skilled but more athletic and durable Bogut. He is not a sexy player, but damn is he effective and would be a huge asset on any good team, despite the ruts that he occasionally gets into (which I attribute to having no PG). Kanter would not start on any good team.

If the Thunder would start Adams over Kanter, they'd definitely start Gobert over him.

[Hedda Gambler]

Gobert`s line from last night might not look good, but man did he impact this game. In the 3rd quarter, he closed the paint and kept us ahead even though we were really struggling offensively.

[Litany]

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/115899/defensive-player-of-the-month-rudy-gobert