2016 Draft

[AtheJ415]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Sportando/status/714522095745699841[/tweet]

Love it. Let's bend some dragons.

[AtheJ415]

Yeah I'm not really seeing the sky high upside everyone keeps raving about, his underwhelming measurables will limit him. Zingis will eventually transition to center because he plays like one, he is a legit Stretch 5 who can protect the rim and lock down the paint as an helpside enforcer. Bender doesn't have the length, explosiveness or finishing ability and looks like a lanky SF in a 7 footer's body shying away from contact. I think he eventually becomes a pick n' pop faceup threat with adequate three point range, but he doesn't really utilize ball screens or create for himself in the iso, he is defensively versatile though can step out switch onto guards and also hedge/recover.

It's hard to be terribly high on Bender but the problem is that it's tough to be terribly high on anyone after the top two (given our team strengths, weaknesses and biggest needs), and I'm not even sure I'm as high on them as everyone. As prospects I like Dunn and Hield, but even if they were positions of need, 3rd seems awfully high to take them.

I think the upside argument for Bender is that he is so young and has many of the skill sets needed at a position of need.

As for people saying his hype is because of how well Bender has done, that's not really true because he was very highly ranked well before this season. I mention him back last summer on the first page of this thread.

If we are drafting 4, 5 or 6 though, I'll probably be fine with whoever it is..maybe the least enthused if it's Ellenson though. If it's Brown I'll just hope those really high on him are right.

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

2 things I dislike about Hield--he's a senior. How good would many of these freshmen be as seniors? Even a single year makes a huge difference--just see Hield's shooting improvement. Also, his height. Love his shooting, and I think he'll be successful in this league, but at 6'4" he's a 2 guard exclusively, so for him to play here in a significant role Booker has to be a 1 or 3. That isn't ideal imo. I'd rather go Murray actually due to age and size (Murray at 19 may grow more, and also has more passing skills imo). Hield has to be a guy we trade down to warrant selecting imo.

[AtheJ415]

4th Year College Stats:

Buddy Hield: 25 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 50% FG
-----------------------------------------------
CJ McCollum: 23 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 49% FG
Damian Lillard: 24 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists 46% FG


The most interesting thing is the Portland roster 2 years ago:



Watson will be telling the FO he's seen it before.

Interesting, although Lillard had elite athleticism that I don't see with either of the other 2, and hes more of a defined position. I could easily see Hield being on par with McCollum, but even so I'm not certain I could take him on this Suns team. I think we'd really need to be committed to moving on from Knight, and also to Bogdan being able to play the 3 with Booker playing some 1 (and yeah I guess that leaves Archie out in the cold).

With Hield, given the crazy jump in his numbers, is he really a driven guy, or is he a guy who saw he needed to maximize his senior year to get a big pay day? I've honestly never seen a jump like his in a single year.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Hield FT%

Year 2 - 75%
Year 3 - 82%
Year 4 - 88% (176 / 200 FTs)

If I was Ryan McDonough I'd have that on a post-it note on my fridge the morning of the draft, in case someone was trying to get in my head about him being a Senior who just beat up on smaller, less experienced, younger college guys.

It's one of the queries I have with Ingram who shoots 68% at the line, and his argument for going no.1 is being an elite shooter.

[JMac1]

Btw, does anyone realize Booker is our best PG on the roster? He's a better ball handler than Knight/Bledsoe and always makes the right pass. Idk if he can guard the opposing PG's especially the quicker ones. Hopefully we can find a way to trade Knight/Bledsoe this offseason. I prefer Bled over knight because of his defense.

Id love to see a backcourt of Booker, Heild, and Warren at times. Get 2 big men that are good at setting picks and let them all run off picks.

Anyone who thinks Booker today is a better PG than a healthy Bledsoe needs their heads examined. His assist numbers don't justify it. His overall numbers don't justify it. There's really nothing to justify it other than subjective criteria like "headiness" and "making the right pass." He gets 2.5 APG and 1.9 TOs, with a 15% assist percentage. Bledsoe this year had 6.5 APG, 3.7 TOs (that's a better a/to ratio than Booker), with 32.1% assist % (so yeah, over double Booker's numbers, and then when you factor in that Bledsoe IIRC was top 3 in the NBA in setting up open 3 point looks, well, that gets even more weight). Brandon Knight had, wait for it, 5.1 APG, 3.3 TOs (again better ratio than Booker), and a 24.9% assist percentage. Booker's passing numbers are actually more in line with great passing PFs than our current PGs. Tim Duncan as a rookie got 2.7 APG, with 13.7% Assist percentage. And he absolutely cannot guard PGs. He's bombing defensively against SGs. PGs in this league are on a different planet from the 2 guards.

Booker is not a PG. He's a 2 guard with solid playmaking skills. You can call him a smarter player than either if you want, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree at all, but being a smart player doesn't make you a PG. Pau Gasol is heady and he is not a PG. Neither is Tim Duncan, or really many other heady players. Booker has a long way to go when it comes to setting up others, particularly at the level to run PG full-time. It's fine. He's already good for a 2 guard at these skills, and that's his future position, but Bledsoe is far and away the better PG on both ends of the court. Not all smart guards are destined to be PGs, and not all should be PGs. Booker is not one of those who should be a PG imo. He's excelling as a 2 guard.

I agree with this sentiment. He can bring the ball up and handle it, but I do not want to make him a PG. That's why I am a Dunn fan. I like Hield, but like I said before, in theory it is a good backcourt.

Dunn/Booker or Bledsoe/Booker.

[sunsbg]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kansas--cheick-diallo-to-enter-draft-152847759.html

Is this guy worth one of the later picks ? Maybe he still has some potencial on the defensive end despite doing nothing on the college level ?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kansas--cheick-diallo-to-enter-draft-152847759.html

Is this guy worth one of the later picks ? Maybe he still has some potencial on the defensive end despite doing nothing on the college level ?

I'd be interested in him at #28, for sure. He has some unique skills.

[bwgood77]

4th Year College Stats:

Buddy Hield: 25 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 50% FG
-----------------------------------------------
CJ McCollum: 23 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists 49% FG
Damian Lillard: 24 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists 46% FG


The most interesting thing is the Portland roster 2 years ago:



Watson will be telling the FO he's seen it before.

Interesting, although Lillard had elite athleticism that I don't see with either of the other 2, and hes more of a defined position. I could easily see Hield being on par with McCollum, but even so I'm not certain I could take him on this Suns team. I think we'd really need to be committed to moving on from Knight, and also to Bogdan being able to play the 3 with Booker playing some 1 (and yeah I guess that leaves Archie out in the cold).

With Hield, given the crazy jump in his numbers, is he really a driven guy, or is he a guy who saw he needed to maximize his senior year to get a big pay day? I've honestly never seen a jump like his in a single year.

My immediate thought was the regression argument but given the even higher usage, volume, increase across the board, work ethic, etc, I am not sure if that is accurate. But mostly I agree that I'm not sure about the fit on our team. But I also know the more shooting options the better. Not saying I'd take him higher than five or six. I do like him better than Murray and probably Brown. I'm not high on Brown, but a WC. At this point I'd still go Bender and Dunn over him. Hopefully we jump up top 3 or preferably top 2 though.

[bwgood77]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kansas--cheick-diallo-to-enter-draft-152847759.html

Is this guy worth one of the later picks ? Maybe he still has some potencial on the defensive end despite doing nothing on the college level ?

He's been pretty disappointing. He's dropped like a rock from 10th preseason....I think I'd pass...never saw him in the Kansas box scores, though I know they didn't let him play for awhile.

[Qwigglez]

Should probably take some athletic freak with the Cavs pick. Or some long limbed player.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Should probably take some athletic freak with the Cavs pick. Or some long limbed player.

Then look no further than Cheick. He's a project in the Clint Capela mold.

[JayBenzy]

IDK about you guys but i have a feeling we're gonna end up getting the #1

book it?

[MVSteve]

It seems like most here aren't very high on Brown - do you all feel he doesn't fit because we have Warren, or just not high on him because you don't see him developing much? I still think his upside is awesome but I also see the concern. If we end up at 4 and Simmons/Ingram/Bender are gone I would still consider him. I'd also look at Hield but I really don't know how he'd fit long term with Booker at the 2. If we didn't have Bledsoe I think Dunn would be solid, but I'm really hoping Bled comes back strong because he and Booker at 1/2 would be fantastic.

With the WAS pick it looks like we should have at least one of the PFs available to us. I hope it's Chriss. Also wouldn't mind Luwawu there. With the CLE pick I agree with others on taking a backup PG (don't really see a place for Knight).

[jcsunsfan]

It's hard to be terribly high on Bender but the problem is that it's tough to be terribly high on anyone after the top two (given our team strengths, weaknesses and biggest needs), and I'm not even sure I'm as high on them as everyone. As prospects I like Dunn and Hield, but even if they were positions of need, 3rd seems awfully high to take them.

I think the upside argument for Bender is that he is so young and has many of the skill sets needed at a position of need.

As for people saying his hype is because of how well Bender has done, that's not really true because he was very highly ranked well before this season. I mention him back last summer on the first page of this thread.

If we are drafting 4, 5 or 6 though, I'll probably be fine with whoever it is..maybe the least enthused if it's Ellenson though. If it's Brown I'll just hope those really high on him are right.

If we end up with the 3rd pick id go with best player available Buddy Heild. Then with the Wiz pick go with a big. Id prefer Sabonis due bball iq, and strength. We probably have the weakest front line in basketball.

2 things I dislike about Hield--he's a senior. How good would many of these freshmen be as seniors? Even a single year makes a huge difference--just see Hield's shooting improvement. Also, his height. Love his shooting, and I think he'll be successful in this league, but at 6'4" he's a 2 guard exclusively, so for him to play here in a significant role Booker has to be a 1 or 3. That isn't ideal imo. I'd rather go Murray actually due to age and size (Murray at 19 may grow more, and also has more passing skills imo). Hield has to be a guy we trade down to warrant selecting imo.

You could only wish that one of these freshmen might possibly (winning the lottery type of possibly) be as good as Hield as a senior. The only reason that freshmen are preferred is the hope that they might one day become like Hield. You cannot overlook a senior when he is that good. Hield' is significantly more efficient this year, on nearly as high volume, as Steph Curry was his last year at Davison. Think about that. And Hield has a better NBA body. Its easy to nitpick a player with stuff that really doesn't matter much and completely miss his obvious strengths staring you in the face.

Here is the issue. When the Suns pick, there is a high likelihood that Hield will clearly be the BPA. Some are saying right now that he might have played himself into the #1 pick. The Suns have to take the BPA if its that clear.

[bwgood77]

It seems like most here aren't very high on Brown - do you all feel he doesn't fit because we have Warren, or just not high on him because you don't see him developing much? I still think his upside is awesome but I also see the concern. If we end up at 4 and Simmons/Ingram/Bender are gone I would still consider him. I'd also look at Hield but I really don't know how he'd fit long term with Booker at the 2. If we didn't have Bledsoe I think Dunn would be solid, but I'm really hoping Bled comes back strong because he and Booker at 1/2 would be fantastic.

With the WAS pick it looks like we should have at least one of the PFs available to us. I hope it's Chriss. Also wouldn't mind Luwawu there. With the CLE pick I agree with others on taking a backup PG (don't really see a place for Knight).

For me I'm not as high on him due to a combination of turnovers, fouls, poor outside shooting, playing terrible down the stretch when games mattered more...just every time I looked at him these are the things I saw. I think he more lives on preseason hype, athleticism, measurements, and perceived upside. I'd still consider him over a guy like Murray, and maybe even over the other guards, but I need to know more. 4 is a toss up for me. 3-5 is even close between Bender, Dunn and Hield in that order. If it's Brown or Murray I'd be less enthused but would trust in and be hopeful. Ellenson is probably at the bottom...I mention him because sometimes I still see him in the top 5 or 6....Ford's latest Mock has him going to us at 5.

[jcsunsfan]

Right now, my draft board for the Suns would probably be:

Simmons
Ingram
Hield
Dunn
Bender

After that, I just don't know. But I am not sure if it matters much after that. To me, Hield has made it a three player draft. I would be thrilled with any one Simmons, Ingram, or Hield.

[saintEscaton]

If we're going guard I'd rather take Dunn and groom him under Bledsoe who will eventually need to be replaced

[jcsunsfan]

If we're going guard I'd rather take Dunn and groom him under Bledsoe who will eventually need to be replaced

I can see that, as drafting for need. But to me, Hield is clearly the better player of the two. You have to take the BPA.

[MVSteve]

It seems like most here aren't very high on Brown - do you all feel he doesn't fit because we have Warren, or just not high on him because you don't see him developing much? I still think his upside is awesome but I also see the concern. If we end up at 4 and Simmons/Ingram/Bender are gone I would still consider him. I'd also look at Hield but I really don't know how he'd fit long term with Booker at the 2. If we didn't have Bledsoe I think Dunn would be solid, but I'm really hoping Bled comes back strong because he and Booker at 1/2 would be fantastic.

With the WAS pick it looks like we should have at least one of the PFs available to us. I hope it's Chriss. Also wouldn't mind Luwawu there. With the CLE pick I agree with others on taking a backup PG (don't really see a place for Knight).

For me I'm not as high on him due to a combination of turnovers, fouls, poor outside shooting, playing terrible down the stretch when games mattered more...just every time I looked at him these are the things I saw. I think he more lives on preseason hype, athleticism, measurements, and perceived upside. I'd still consider him over a guy like Murray, and maybe even over the other guards, but I need to know more. 4 is a toss up for me. 3-5 is even close between Bender, Dunn and Hield in that order. If it's Brown or Murray I'd be less enthused but would trust in and be hopeful. Ellenson is probably at the bottom...I mention him because sometimes I still see him in the top 5 or 6....Ford's latest Mock has him going to us at 5.

Yea, I definitely see the same red flags so I get why people aren't high on him. I do like the athleticism and upside, which I guess is why I would still consider him after the top three. He also seems like a good kid and a hard worker, which makes me hopeful that he would develop, but that kind of stuff is obviously hard to get a real read on.

Ellenson...ugh, not a fan and I definitely wouldn't take him at 5.

If we're going guard I'd rather take Dunn and groom him under Bledsoe who will eventually need to be replaced

I can see that, as drafting for need. But to me, Hield is clearly the better player of the two. You have to take the BPA.

I agree Hield is the better player and I'd probably take him as well in that case, but how do you see that playing out? Would he back up Booker at the 2? Are either of them big enough to play 3 for extended periods of time? Booker has shown pretty good play-making ability so maybe long term he and Hield play in the back-court together? Also have to consider the possibility of Bogdan coming over, though we don't know how much he'll play just yet.

Taking Dunn is a little cleaner I think...

Bledsoe/Dunn
Booker/Knight (Bogdan)

[jcsunsfan]

It seems like most here aren't very high on Brown - do you all feel he doesn't fit because we have Warren, or just not high on him because you don't see him developing much? I still think his upside is awesome but I also see the concern. If we end up at 4 and Simmons/Ingram/Bender are gone I would still consider him. I'd also look at Hield but I really don't know how he'd fit long term with Booker at the 2. If we didn't have Bledsoe I think Dunn would be solid, but I'm really hoping Bled comes back strong because he and Booker at 1/2 would be fantastic.

With the WAS pick it looks like we should have at least one of the PFs available to us. I hope it's Chriss. Also wouldn't mind Luwawu there. With the CLE pick I agree with others on taking a backup PG (don't really see a place for Knight).

For me I'm not as high on him due to a combination of turnovers, fouls, poor outside shooting, playing terrible down the stretch when games mattered more...just every time I looked at him these are the things I saw. I think he more lives on preseason hype, athleticism, measurements, and perceived upside. I'd still consider him over a guy like Murray, and maybe even over the other guards, but I need to know more. 4 is a toss up for me. 3-5 is even close between Bender, Dunn and Hield in that order. If it's Brown or Murray I'd be less enthused but would trust in and be hopeful. Ellenson is probably at the bottom...I mention him because sometimes I still see him in the top 5 or 6....Ford's latest Mock has him going to us at 5.

Yea, I definitely see the same red flags so I get why people aren't high on him. I do like the athleticism and upside, which I guess is why I would still consider him after the top three. He also seems like a good kid and a hard worker, which makes me hopeful that he would develop, but that kind of stuff is obviously hard to get a real read on.

Ellenson...ugh, not a fan and I definitely wouldn't take him at 5.

If we're going guard I'd rather take Dunn and groom him under Bledsoe who will eventually need to be replaced

I can see that, as drafting for need. But to me, Hield is clearly the better player of the two. You have to take the BPA.

I agree Hield is the better player and I'd probably take him as well in that case, but how do you see that playing out? Would he back up Booker at the 2? Are either of them big enough to play 3 for extended periods of time? Booker has shown pretty good play-making ability so maybe long term he and Hield play in the back-court together? Also have to consider the possibility of Bogdan coming over, though we don't know how much he'll play just yet.

Taking Dunn is a little cleaner I think...

Bledsoe/Dunn
Booker/Knight (Bogdan)

I see a three guard rotation of Bledsoe, Booker and Hield. If Bogdan is here, he would primarily play the 3. I have been very impressed with Booker in the part-time pg role. That could be a really potent trio.

I am just not as impressed with Dunn. If we really want another pg, they are available elsewhere.