"End Of Season Series": Magic Player Rankings - Elfird Payton

[Bensational]

End Of Season Series

Since the season is coming to a close, and we've seen how most of our guys have shaped up over the course of the season, I wanted to start up a series of threads where we can all recap on the season, but let's try to focus on the good and celebrate that, rather than critiquing. (There are plenty of other threads for discussing player faults).

So first up, I'm starting up a poll to get a feel for where everyone thinks our guys rank within their position at the end of the season, and going forwards. It will also be a nice chance to recap on some of the improvements players have made throughout the season.

And the first player off the board is...





[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx-2qK2Vuq0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP8KJaQuRq4[/youtube]





So, where does he rank for you?






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RESOURCES

Here's a list of other PGs in the league, to help with your rankings.

ATL - Teauge, Schroeder, Hinrich
BKN - Larkin, Sloan, Jack
BOS - Thomas, Smart, Rozier
CHA - Kemba, Lin
CHI - Rose, Brooks
CLE - Irving, Dellavedova, Mo Williams
DAL - Deron, Barea
DEN - Mudiay, Augustin, Jameer
DET - Jackson, Dinwiddie, Blake
GSW - Curry, Livingston
HOU - Beverly
IND - Hill, Lawson
LAC - Paul, Prigioni, Rivers
LAL - Russell, Clarkson, L.Williams
MEM - Conley
MIA - Dragic
MIN - Rubio, LaVine
MIL - Giannis, MCW, Bayless
NOP - Holiday, Cole
NYK - Calderon, Galloway
OKC - Westbrook
ORL - Payton, Jennings, Watson, Napier
PHI - Ish Smith, McConnell, Canaan
PHO - Bledsoe, Price
POR - Lillard, McCollum
SAS - Parker, Mills, Miller
SAC - Rondo, Collison
TOR - Lowry, Joseph
UTA - Mack, Burke, Neto, Exum
WAS - Wall, Sessions

[SOUL]

I put top 15. I think next year he will surprise a lot of people if he's given the opportunity he is now with the freedom that he has and him being injury free. For a second year PG, he really is an impact player.

I think his demise was overstated as nobody had a problem with him this season until he started picking up small injuries and then eventually both his ankles acted up.

What he still needs to work on: attack mode all the time, free throws (vital) and continuing to keep people honest with his shot and being pesky on defense all the time. Although this is an area that magically looks better with Vuc out combined with having the movement again (PG defense).

Better PG's: Paul, Westbrook, Lillard, Lowry, Wall, Thomas, Curry, Conley, maybe Bledsoe, McCollum (more an SG), Kemba this year but I don't think he's an ideal PG. Kyrie same thing, undersized shooting guards, Teague sometimes but he doesn't impress me that much.

I'd put him on par with Dragic, Rubio, Jackson, Rondo, Schroeder sort area at the moment as far as game impact. While this isn't a huge ringing endorsement (Heat fans hate Dragic and Wolves fans are iffy on Rubio) .. it's a solid trajectory for a 2nd year PG.

[orlando1214]

I put him as an average starter. I think there are 15 other guys I'd probably rank above him, he's right around that 15 mark though, so about average. The issue with Payton has been how up and down he has been this season. There are certainly reasons for that, with adjusting to Skiles being the biggest issue. Obviously, that's not all on Elfrid though.

I will say that the Elfrid we have gotten the past week is probably a top 10 Point Guard in the league, but I just need to see it consistently from him. He is finishing out his 2nd year and has been through 3 different head coaches, with the current one being a hot headed PG himself, so it's not shocking to see why Elfrid has taken some time to become a consistent player. I do believe though that he is capable of being a top 10 and maybe even a top 5 PG in this league.

[Bensational]

Here's my breakdown for the PGs

STARS - Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, Rose, Lillard, Wall

ALLSTAR WORTHY - Kemba, Conley, Giannis,

ALLSTAR WORTHY #2 (BUT I'D STILL TAKE ELF OVER THEM) - Hill, Thomas, Teauge, Rubio, Dragic, Jackson, Lowry, Rondo, Bledsoe,

AVERAGE - Deron, Beverly, Lin, Dellavedova, Mo Williams, Collison, Holiday, Calderon (plus anyone else not named)

TOO YOUNG TO TELL - Russell, Clarkson, Schroeder, Mudiay, Smart, LaVine, MCW, McCollum, Joseph, Exum


Now, I could see a case for anyone to want to pick any of the names from Stars to Allstar Worthy #2 as players they'd rank over Elf. There are probably a few names in the average people might want to argue for, too, depending on your criteria. But my criteria isn't just "who will help us win a game today", it's "who could be special in the future?", and in that case I take Elf over anyone who isn't a star (although if Milwaukee made an offer of Giannis for Elf I'd reeeeeeeally have to think about it...).

I think Elf has had his ups and downs this season, but I think that now he and Skiles are on the same page, and Elf is playing aggressively and really in the flow of the game.

There's a lot of the season that wasn't all that impressive, but there were still plenty of good nights, especially lately. Hopefully now we can settle on a style of offense that suits Elf, so that after a summer of working on his jump shot, we might actually see an entirely new Elf next season? (That's the pearly optimist side of it).

I don't think Skiles is going anywhere, so hopefully this is a sign of these two connecting. I hope Skiles is able to help Elf with the PnR defense over the summer, and hopefully that defensive master streak comes out and they can work that out.

All in all, I love watching Elf play. I love watching him create. I love seeing him throw lobs to Gordon, Dedmon or Mario. I love watching him ballhound when he gets the chance. I still think he has star potential.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Average starter currently. If he continues to play the way they've been asking him to play he'll easily get into the top 15 and possibly higher.

[tiderulz]

I put him as an average starter. I think there are 15 other guys I'd probably rank above him, he's right around that 15 mark though, so about average. The issue with Payton has been how up and down he has been this season. There are certainly reasons for that, with adjusting to Skiles being the biggest issue. Obviously, that's not all on Elfrid though.

I will say that the Elfrid we have gotten the past week is probably a top 10 Point Guard in the league, but I just need to see it consistently from him. He is finishing out his 2nd year and has been through 3 different head coaches, with the current one being a hot headed PG himself, so it's not shocking to see why Elfrid has taken some time to become a consistent player. I do believe though that he is capable of being a top 10 and maybe even a top 5 PG in this league.

i agree that last 4 games Elfrid is the player i was hoping we would see all year long. But 2015-2016 overall Elfrid is average to below average starter for me. His intensity isnt there every game, his defense has been subpar (we get destroyed by too many opposing PG's), his shooting still pretty bad. I wont knock his stats much, as the entire team took a dip in stats which i believe is due in large part to Skiles scheme. And Skiles scheme doesnt for PG's doesnt seem to play to Elf's strengths. Im hoping he can come back next year with that fire in every game, not one in every 5 games.

[Instincts]

Currently average starter: but the pull up jump shot has looked smooth and quick lately, while the spot up 3pt shot has also improved. If Payton continues the improvement in these two areas there is no reason he cannot move well into the top 10 pg conversation.

[orlando1214]

I put him as an average starter. I think there are 15 other guys I'd probably rank above him, he's right around that 15 mark though, so about average. The issue with Payton has been how up and down he has been this season. There are certainly reasons for that, with adjusting to Skiles being the biggest issue. Obviously, that's not all on Elfrid though.

I will say that the Elfrid we have gotten the past week is probably a top 10 Point Guard in the league, but I just need to see it consistently from him. He is finishing out his 2nd year and has been through 3 different head coaches, with the current one being a hot headed PG himself, so it's not shocking to see why Elfrid has taken some time to become a consistent player. I do believe though that he is capable of being a top 10 and maybe even a top 5 PG in this league.

i agree that last 4 games Elfrid is the player i was hoping we would see all year long. But 2015-2016 overall Elfrid is average to below average starter for me. His intensity isnt there every game, his defense has been subpar (we get destroyed by too many opposing PG's), his shooting still pretty bad. I wont knock his stats much, as the entire team took a dip in stats which i believe is due in large part to Skiles scheme. And Skiles scheme doesnt for PG's doesnt seem to play to Elf's strengths. Im hoping he can come back next year with that fire in every game, not one in every 5 games.

Definitely fair points. I agree that there have been moments that I have questioned if he should start as well this season. I mean he's had some pretty bad moments and stretches this season. On the other hand, I see the stretch he is having now and think we would be crazy to give up on this kid and not start him. That's mainly why I don't put him in the top 15, because he has been so up and down. Maybe the best thing to do would be to bring in a guy like Conley for a few years and start him while Elfrid figures out how to be consistent, I'm not sure. I just hope that we eventually get the Payton of the past week each and every game, because I would love to have a Point Guard like that.

[NBAchamps2017]

He's a bench player right now. This team need to acquire an all star type of PG next season. Next season MUST be a win now mode. Enough of the organic excuses from Hennigan. Its a shame if he cannot bring in an all star type caliber player at this position.

[BadMofoPimp]

Where is the box for scrub? Just Joking!!!

Makes you wonder if a player like Schroeder or someone was on this team and given the starting green light like Elf has been given on a bottom feeder, how much havoc would they unleash on other teams. Makes you think. I think Elf will end up proving them all wrong tho. He should be better.

[drsd]

I put him as an average starter. I think there are 15 other guys I'd probably rank above him, he's right around that 15 mark though, so about average. The issue with Payton has been how up and down he has been this season. There are certainly reasons for that, with adjusting to Skiles being the biggest issue. Obviously, that's not all on Elfrid though.

I will say that the Elfrid we have gotten the past week is probably a top 10 Point Guard in the league, but I just need to see it consistently from him. He is finishing out his 2nd year and has been through 3 different head coaches, with the current one being a hot headed PG himself, so it's not shocking to see why Elfrid has taken some time to become a consistent player. I do believe though that he is capable of being a top 10 and maybe even a top 5 PG in this league.

I agree 100% with every word. Including the "so's" and "but's."

Being a starter as an NBA PG is the toughest on-the-court job in the NBA. For Payton to already be in the 15-20th range makes him a top-50 basketball player world-wide. That is something.

To add to your post, next year we could see it all start coming together for Payton. If he can keep his current 3-point shooting percentage but up his attempts to ~3 a game (i.e. average 1 made 3-ball a game), that will do wonders for all other aspects of his stat line. He knows that and this Summer Payton will practice several hundred thousand threes.

I would like to see Payton's apg inch upwards. Aything above 7 per game would be very nice. Paton's height means he should be a dominant rebounder at the PG slot. Here is hoping for a stat line well above 4 rpg; ideally 5 rpg is a realistic target.

Payton should not be trying to dramatically increase his scoring. His role is to facilitate.


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[LacosteM]

Here's my breakdown for the PGs

STARS - Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, Rose, Lillard, Wall

ALLSTAR WORTHY - Kemba, Conley, Giannis,

ALLSTAR WORTHY #2 (BUT I'D STILL TAKE ELF OVER THEM) - Hill, Thomas, Teauge, Rubio, Dragic, Jackson, Lowry, Rondo, Bledsoe,

AVERAGE - Deron, Beverly, Lin, Dellavedova, Mo Williams, Collison, Holiday, Calderon (plus anyone else not named)

TOO YOUNG TO TELL - Russell, Clarkson, Schroeder, Mudiay, Smart, LaVine, MCW, McCollum, Joseph, Exum


Now, I could see a case for anyone to want to pick any of the names from Stars to Allstar Worthy #2 as players they'd rank over Elf. There are probably a few names in the average people might want to argue for, too, depending on your criteria. But my criteria isn't just "who will help us win a game today", it's "who could be special in the future?", and in that case I take Elf over anyone who isn't a star (although if Milwaukee made an offer of Giannis for Elf I'd reeeeeeeally have to think about it...).

I think Elf has had his ups and downs this season, but I think that now he and Skiles are on the same page, and Elf is playing aggressively and really in the flow of the game.

There's a lot of the season that wasn't all that impressive, but there were still plenty of good nights, especially lately. Hopefully now we can settle on a style of offense that suits Elf, so that after a summer of working on his jump shot, we might actually see an entirely new Elf next season? (That's the pearly optimist side of it).

I don't think Skiles is going anywhere, so hopefully this is a sign of these two connecting. I hope Skiles is able to help Elf with the PnR defense over the summer, and hopefully that defensive master streak comes out and they can work that out.

All in all, I love watching Elf play. I love watching him create. I love seeing him throw lobs to Gordon, Dedmon or Mario. I love watching him ballhound when he gets the chance. I still think he has star potential.

Derrick Rose a star?

[LacosteM]

Voted for below average starter. We shouldn't judge his season by his last 5 games where he played impressive. His defense was pretty dissapointing throughout the year and he struggled to maintain consistency on both ends of the floor. I'm not sure how much injuries affected his performance, but if his recent games are any indication of how he'll perform injury free, I could definitely see him improve too average/top 15 column in a year or 2.

[OrlChamps2030]

A top 15 pg isn't an average starter. That's like borderline all star.


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[drsd]

A top 15 pg isn't an average starter. That's like borderline all star.

There are 30 NBA teams. 15 is squarely average as it sits right in the middle.


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[tiderulz]

Payton should not be trying to dramatically increase his scoring. His role is to facilitate.
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he doesnt need to "dramatically" increase it, but he is at 10 ppg right now and he needs to be at around 15ppg in my opinion. we dont have any offensive superstars, so we need contribution from every position.

[Tayswagzzz]

He's probably one of the hardest to judge on the roster currently...he's been up and down the entire season, now near the end of the season he looks good and is playing well, to rank his season I'd say he's an Average Starter - Below Average Starter depending on the night, but that's the thing, he could be better or he could stay the same in a few years. He's been very inconsistent and I think it's mostly mental with him.

[tiderulz]

A top 15 pg isn't an average starter. That's like borderline all star.

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a top 15 PG is a middle of the pack PG, putting up 15 ppg, 6 apg. that isnt borderline star to me.

[jezzer45]

The first 3/4 of the season elf wasnt put in a position to succeed. He was pretty much off the ball most if the time (due to the "system") and when he had the ball i felt he was pressing to make a play hence the up and down.

Now for whatever reason these last few games he is RUNNING the team and being an all around beast because he now is playing natural pg.

So current elf top 15
prior average starter
Future top 8

[OrlChamps2030]

A top 15 pg isn't an average starter. That's like borderline all star.

There are 30 NBA teams. 15 is squarely average as it sits right in the middle.


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In a vaccum, yes you're right. But the PG position is so deep, production isn't equal across all positions. How can you call the 15th best PG an average starter and then turn around and call the 15th best SF an average starter as well and act like they are both equal caliber players.

But anyways I'll give it a shot, Elf is probably top 20 at best this season.