The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[Mulhollanddrive]

Teams that aim for the 8th seed, tend to end up the worst over time because they get the left overs that contenders and rebuilders don't want - Rudy Gay, Rajon Rondo, Tyson Chandler, Brandon Knight, Al Jefferson, Greg Monroe.

If we signed Ryan Anderson to be our starting PF, our starters will all be 30+ before Booker is 24. And then we realise in 2020, we need to rebuild the whole team again. What for - So we can get swept by GS in 2017?

[AtheJ415]

I think that with the assets the sun's have right now, and if the market allows it, they have a potential to land 2 top players via trade. Looking back over the past 15 years, there have been quite a few big name guys who have been traded. If you look at the trade board, star trades are absolutely absurd. And if history proves, gutting your picks and youth does not work. Only stupid GM's go out on a limb and gut a roster for one guy. The vast majority of star trades end up being for the most part underwhelming.

Ray Allan - Top5 pick, young guy, filler
Garnett - 1st, Top Prospect, young guy, filler
Shaq - 1st, Prospect, established vet, filler
CP3 - 1st, Top Prospect, filler
Gasol - 2 1sts, Euro prospect, filler

And then you have the overpays:

Deron - Top Prospect, established vet, 2 firsts
Melo - 3 Top prospects, 1st, 2 2nds

I've seen plenty of trades that involve the suns sending out Knight or Bledsoe/Booker/4 Firsts for ONE GUY. Realistically, it's not going to happen.

I really think that at some point we'll steal another 2nd guy to build around. Maybe Favors or Hayward? I feel like Utah makes a ton of sense as a trade partner.

Cousins is obviously the most likely #1 guy to get moved. Just not sure we'd get him over Boston, but that all depends on will. If they are intent on rebuilding, we do have as many picks to offer as any team except Boston. Most teams like picks over unproven youngsters they didn't select themselves.

[bwgood77]

I think that with the assets the sun's have right now, and if the market allows it, they have a potential to land 2 top players via trade. Looking back over the past 15 years, there have been quite a few big name guys who have been traded. If you look at the trade board, star trades are absolutely absurd. And if history proves, gutting your picks and youth does not work. Only stupid GM's go out on a limb and gut a roster for one guy. The vast majority of star trades end up being for the most part underwhelming.

Ray Allan - Top5 pick, young guy, filler
Garnett - 1st, Top Prospect, young guy, filler
Shaq - 1st, Prospect, established vet, filler
CP3 - 1st, Top Prospect, filler
Gasol - 2 1sts, Euro prospect, filler

And then you have the overpays:

Deron - Top Prospect, established vet, 2 firsts
Melo - 3 Top prospects, 1st, 2 2nds

I've seen plenty of trades that involve the suns sending out Knight or Bledsoe/Booker/4 Firsts for ONE GUY. Realistically, it's not going to happen.

I really think that at some point we'll steal another 2nd guy to build around. Maybe Favors or Hayward? I feel like Utah makes a ton of sense as a trade partner.

Cousins is obviously the most likely #1 guy to get moved. Just not sure we'd get him over Boston, but that all depends on will. If they are intent on rebuilding, we do have as many picks to offer as any team except Boston. Most teams like picks over unproven youngsters they didn't select themselves.

IF those owners will fully embrace a rebuild. I sense they are impatient after buying the team much like Sarver is now. They may want a straight up swap. I know we all know that they SHOULD get picks and young assets and rebuild, but will they accept that? For example, if the Cavs offered up Kyrie and Love in a package for Cousins would their owners say no to that?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

[bwgood77]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Sure we would, but they wouldn't be prepared to trade him.

[bwgood77]

Thread in Trade Forum about people's ideas for offseason overhaul for the Suns if they have one - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1433711#start_here

[Mulhollanddrive]

Only brought Butler's name up as it was just reported (Chris Mannix) Chicago may make Butler available.

Why on earth they would do that who knows, but GMs do some stupid things under pressure.

[NavLDO]

Brandon Knight would be great off the bench. I also think he's played better over the last three games. Inconsistent, but better. His shooting kept us in the game last night, and while he was cold against Boston, he kept the turnovers low in that game and the previous game against the Lakers.

I think there's about a 5% chance he gets traded this summer. I'm willing to exercise some patience - I recommend others do the same. He's had injuries and he's been dealing with a lot coaching and roster turnover. He's 24. Lets chill a bit and see if he can pull his numbers up next season.

I agree...to a point. It wouldn't be wise to trade him this off-season, as he won't net much positive, IMO. Let him fid his groove again with Bledsoe, then figure out how it all shakes out between Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Goodwin, and Bogdanovic. I hate to even say it, but what happens if next year, Bledsoe goes down again early? If we trade Knight, no matter how poor of a player we all feel he is, he IS a starter worthy PG...a lower end one, sure, but still, miles better than Goodwin or Price. And having Booker run the point is neutralizing his best skills.

I've been harsh on Knight, and feel he's pretty close to worthless, but in reality, he's not nearly as bad as I, and others, like to portend. That said, he's not worth much right now, IMO, in a trade. But if he comes out guns a blazin', like he did early this year, THEN I would seriously look to trade him, if Bledsoe appears to be healthy.

On paper, we look pretty good heading into next season. And by that, I mean, we'll bring in a young, good talent in the top 5
(I hope), maybe a development guy in the late lotto, and maybe a Eurostash late like we did with Bogs...

Best case scenario, IMO, if we can't get Simmons or Bender to play PF, we need to trade for one...

Bledsoe
Booker
Warren
(Simmons/trade/Bender)
Len

Poor defensively, sure, but so were the great Suns of the Nash years...just outscore them, and with Bledsoe, Booker, and Warren, and with the advent of Len in the Offense this season, that's a team that averages 105 PPG. Who do you guard? Bledsoe on the drive or the kick out? Booker on the drive or kick out?? Warren and his mid-range game?? Yeah, we'll see a lot of 115-108-type games, but I'm ok with that, honestly. And with Knight coming in as a 6th man, that can be a deadly offensive team.

[rsavaj]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

[rsavaj]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

Which part do you find loco; the first statement, the second, or both

[TOO]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

And 1000.

[rsavaj]

I might be swinging the other way in terms of gauging value, but I think we'd be hard pressed to find a player as good as Jimmy Butler, whether through the draft, trade or FA. If you have a chance to nab him, you go for it.

I'm not necessarily saying I'd move Booker for him, but Knight and Warren are not building blocks the way Butler is. Maybe adding 3/13/29 is too much, sure. But again, nabbing one of the best shooting guards in the league when he's still under contract for a few years is not an opportunity that comes along in a while.

I do think that fans tend to overrate the value of their own players. Let's flip it; if we had a guy like Jimmy Butler, would YOU want to trade him for a package centered around Brandon Knight, TJ Warren and the 3rd pick in a weak draft?

Add Butler to Bledsoe, Booker, Len, and baby...you've got a stew going.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

Which part do you find loco; the first statement, the second, or both

I don't think you're winning anything with a core of Bled, Butler and Len. I don't think you're winning anything with a core of Bled, Booker, Butler and Len. So both.

I think you're buying high on Butler and selling low on Warren. And giving up all those picks is tantamount to going from "rebuilding" to "rebuilt." And you don't do that unless you have a finished product, which that would not be.

Butler has three years remaining on his deal. Warren has 6 (including RFA), Knight 4, Booker 7, and each of those draft picks 8. That's 41 years you're giving up for 3. Remove Booker, and that's 34.

The risk profile on Warren and those picks is high; the risk profile on Butler is low. When you're rebuilding, you prefer volatility - it gives you a chance to hit on a superstar. I'd keep what we have - a cache of promising young players and picks. Continue to build. Stick with the process. It's all actually rather obvious.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I do think that fans tend to overrate the value of their own players. Let's flip it; if we had a guy like Jimmy Butler, would YOU want to trade him for a package centered around Brandon Knight, TJ Warren and the 3rd pick in a weak draft?

Um... hell yes? That's more than the Knicks gave up for Melo, or New Jersey for Deron, or Cleveland for Love.

Just because you're rich doesn't mean you go and spend all your money on the first shiny object you see.

You say teams tend to overrate their own - I don't see anyone around here overrating Brandon Knight, PJ Tucker, Tyson Chandler, or even Eric Bledsoe. I happen to believe that Warren is an efficient 20 PPG scorer in this league. Can't be certain of it, but I think so. Am I allowed to believe that ANY of our assets are undervalued? Because I've seen a whole lot of "trade this guy or that guy for nothing" around here, which leads me to believe that there's legitimate differences of opinion not reducible to one single principle.

[rsavaj]

I do think that fans tend to overrate the value of their own players. Let's flip it; if we had a guy like Jimmy Butler, would YOU want to trade him for a package centered around Brandon Knight, TJ Warren and the 3rd pick in a weak draft?

Um... hell yes? That's more than the Knicks gave up for Melo, or New Jersey for Deron, or Cleveland for Love.

Just because you're rich doesn't mean you go and spend all your money on the first shiny object you see.

You say teams tend to overrate their own - I don't see anyone around here overrating Brandon Knight, PJ Tucker, Tyson Chandler, or even Eric Bledsoe. I happen to believe that Warren is an efficient 20 PPG scorer in this league. Can't be certain of it, but I think so. Am I allowed to believe that ANY of our assets are undervalued? Because I've seen a whole lot of "trade this guy or that guy for nothing" around here, which leads me to believe that there's legitimate differences of opinion not reducible to one single principle.

Fair enough. Admittedly, I might be falling prey to the "grass is always greener" syndrome. I just really like Butler, and I don't think Knight is anything more than a glorified Jamal Crawford. But you've made a good post.

[letsgosuns]

Booker is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. He is certainly the most untouchable rookie the Suns have had since Amare. I think he has the potential to be the best shooting guard in the league so I view him as a superstar and you do not trade a player like that when he is 19 years old for anyone.

Anyway, I would trade for Butler if the deal makes sense. My guess is it would take the Suns pick plus Knight and/or another player. Maybe Goodwin. Every move the Suns make needs to only be about how to win a championship. Signing second tier players or trading for them is worthless. Every asset besides Booker should be available including Len if it means getting a big man better than him.

Superstars I would trade the Suns pick and multiple players (besides Booker) for: Harden, Griffin, Butler, George, maybe a few others. Superstars I absolutely would not trade anything for: Rose, Carmelo, Cousins. Never want to see those players in a Suns uniform.

[saintEscaton]

Ideally I don't want to build a team around Booker, he is a sweet stroking All-Star sidekick IMO. Hopefully our franchise cornerstone is a two-way player at a premium position. Who might that be? I dunno

[TeamTragic]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

Did everyone stop taking their meds this morning? Why should we help Chicago rebuild? They should have to suffer just like everyone else.

2016 #3 (top 1-2 protected) OR Warren (defaults to Warren if pick becomes #1)
2016 #13
2016 #29
Knight
Goodwin (?)

[NaturalBuns]

Why do people make it out that trying to get a 7th or 8th seed is bad? Because you stay mediocre?


I went back over the last 5-6 season of both conferences 7-8th seeded teams and it looked like that's almost the way to go if you don't have a top 5 player. All those teams that ppl portray as mediocre ended up exploding.

Boston had 7th seed doing fine as hell
Hawks had 8th seed turned it in 1st.
Pacers had 8th seed turned it into elite status behind cavs.

Houston had 8th seed and now makes the playoffs yearly and does damage. OKC had 8th seed.....

The list goes on and on.
The barely making the playoffs is a
Myth or behind times with how it works now.