Team of the Day: Phoenix Suns Edition

[saintEscaton]

Right now we are unintentionally tanking out circumstance not by design.Honestly this roster should just be gutted, I see 35-40 wins tops when healthy, maybe thats enough to approach an 8th seed IDK. We need to bottom out for another year if we miss out on the crown jewels of this draft, knowing our luck we will get leapfrogged in the lotto. Lateral acquisitons are the last thing we need don't want get back on the treadmill, we have struck out every summer. I don't think Barnes is any more than a glue guy/product of the System not a stud waiting to be featured. Don't want to max out players just for the sake of it when it doesn't move the needle

[Texas Chuck]

Really love all the feedback coming from Suns fans. Keep it coming please. It's easy to think I know best from the outside so its good to get the perspective of guys closer to the ground.

[R-DAWG]

I look at the the Suns this way. Going into 13-14 they were planning to rebuild/kind of bottom out and prepare for the future. 2013 was a very weak draft and Goran Dragic was considered a nice role player which is why they traded Jarded Dudley for Eric Bledsoe. Because of a career year from Bledsoe and outstanding coaching they won 48 games and while Dragic still looks better than a role player it's looking more like both his 13-14 campaign and Pheonix' roster had fluke success winning 48 games. They tried to double down on that success and get over the hump into the playoffs. As we all know, that didn't work out as planned. While the 2 PG mix worked great, adding a 3rd player, Isiaah Thomas, to the mix had an adverse effect on the entire roster. Additionally, Channing Frye was a key part of that team and he wasn't replaced. Obviously there were off court issues with the Morris twins.

All things considered I thought Pheonix did a nice job getting 2 future, unprotected picks from Miami although trading the Lakers pick and Isiah Thomas for Brandon Knight and the CLE pick seems like a mistake. I don't think it's a big enough mistake to cost the GM his job, especially with the Dragic trade (and those MIA picks could easily turn into what Boston's BK picks are today once Wade and Riley are retired and he showed again with the Morris trade this year he can get good value out of bad situations. The final double down with Tyson Chandler to land LMA didn't work, but also didn't kill the Suns long term.

Where Pheonix stands now - there are 3 rookie scale players who are starter caliber in the league (Len, Warren, Booker) but only 1 player has star potential (Booker). Draft pick wise they are still stocked, 2 lotto picks this year and 3 overall, still owning 2 future MIA picks and all their future picks. You can actually make the argument that Pheonix's rebuild is in better shape today than it was 3 years ago.

Right now they need to continue to draft the best available players and be active in the trade market. I'm sure they would be open to cashing out Blesdoe or Knight, but both guys have seen their value decline. Knight is best suited as a combo guard off the bench IMO and while Bledsoe has all the tools to be as good as a Kyle Lowry, health wise he's a major concern. And he's turning 27 in December, not exactly a spring chicken in the NBA. If a star player, like Kevin Love or Blake Griffin, becomes available via trade, Pheonix has a nice stash of young players and picks to go get them. If not, keep building organically.

While they might have the 3rd worst record in the NBA this season, there are much worse future outlooks in this league than the Pheonix Suns.

Pheonix has a good balance of hording picks and cap space and taking calculated gambles. No GM is correct 100% of the time. The fact is Pheonix is in a better place today than they were entering the 2013 draft and they were able to do so playing competitive ball for 2 years. If you can your GM, he will get another job, just like Horneseck should be a top coaching canditiate

Great post! A lot of sound analyses. The Suns have a bright future, but right now, all it is, is speculative and dependent upon sound decisions and draft choices by our GM. Many Suns fans have given up on McD based upon a couple of poor trades, but what many do not take into account is the fact that they were calculated gambles that didn't pan out. Had we secured LMA, the Chandler contract, all of sudden, looks like a decent gamble. Had Bledsoe not gone down this season, Knight would likely have played better, as he did early in the year. Then they choose to blame him for the Morri acting like idiots, soon after they received contracts, and Dragic laying down an ultimatum less than a week before the trade deadline. Never mind the fact McD secured 3 1st Rd picks for Dragic and Kieff, when it was believed by most that Kieff wasn't worth dirt a couple of months ago.

My point is, that it's easy to look at the 'failures', then overlook the 'successes'. I know, as I work in the military intelligence field. How many times have you hard the phrase "intelligence successes" vice "intelligence failures"?? Nope, it's always "operational successes" or "intel failures". Same concept here. McD has done a lot of good for a young, 'up-and-coming' GM, but he's made some mistakes, yet the McD 'haters' will only point to the poor decisions--Knight trade and subsequent contract; Chandler's contract; the 3-headed PG hydra failure; not trading Kieff soon enough, etc. Yet when arguing his successes--Bledsoe trade; Len selection; Warren selection; Booker selection; IT contract, and subsequent trade for a 1st Rd pick; Kieff trade; Dragic trade underpressure, etc., well then, it was either 'luck', or not worthy of mention. But I'll take his 'hoarding' of draft picks over selling picks for cash, that previous GMs preferred to employ in the past. Since he's taken over, we've made 6 1st Rd picks in 3 years, and currently have 10 1st Rd picks in the next 7 drafts, with 3 of those this year.

The Suns are not a good basketball team, and our owner is an idiot. But we do have some pieces to work with, and if McD can hit on just one of his two lotto picks, the Suns could be in contention for a low seed next year. Assuming we keep Knight as a 6th man role, and sign Bogdanovic away from Euro-league:

Bledsoe / Knight
Booker / Bogdanovic / Goodwin
Warren / Tucker
(Draft pick or trade) / (one of Leuer/Teletovic)
Len / Chandler

We'll be weak defensively, and at the PF position, so that, to me, is our biggest concern, but if McD can secure a decent starter this off-season, that's not a bad squad to work with next year, and I don't think I'm being 'overly positive' on our talent.

[Mr. E]

I was with you until bringing in KJ. Not the guy I'd want associated with my franchise anymore, especially since the accusations against him keep piling up. Dude is not a good human being. Honestly, I think he should be in jail.

totally off topic here, but what are you talking about? Has something been going on that I've been missing? Granted, I haven't paid as much attention to all aspects of the Rockets this season (not just because of their poor play), but I didn't think that I had my head in the sand.

[bondom34]

I was with you until bringing in KJ. Not the guy I'd want associated with my franchise anymore, especially since the accusations against him keep piling up. Dude is not a good human being. Honestly, I think he should be in jail.

totally off topic here, but what are you talking about? Has something been going on that I've been missing? Granted, I haven't paid as much attention to all aspects of the Rockets this season (not just because of their poor play), but I didn't think that I had my head in the sand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/us/mayor-kevin-johnson-sacramento-sex-abuse-accusation.html?_r=0

But hours before the premiere last week, the ESPN network, which produced the documentary, “Down in the Valley,” announced it would delay indefinitely the national release of the film. The network cited the re-emergence of an issue that has shadowed Mr. Johnson since his first campaign in 2008: a claim by a woman that he sexually abused her 20 years ago, when she was 16 and he played for the Phoenix Suns.

[loserX]

I was with you until bringing in KJ. Not the guy I'd want associated with my franchise anymore, especially since the accusations against him keep piling up. Dude is not a good human being. Honestly, I think he should be in jail.

totally off topic here, but what are you talking about? Has something been going on that I've been missing? Granted, I haven't paid as much attention to all aspects of the Rockets this season (not just because of their poor play), but I didn't think that I had my head in the sand.

There are two KJs in that post, and one of them is bolded. The bolded one is KJ McDaniels, but I think the person being discussed is Kevin Johnson whose name appears earlier on.

[rsavaj]

I was with you until bringing in KJ. Not the guy I'd want associated with my franchise anymore, especially since the accusations against him keep piling up. Dude is not a good human being. Honestly, I think he should be in jail.

totally off topic here, but what are you talking about? Has something been going on that I've been missing? Granted, I haven't paid as much attention to all aspects of the Rockets this season (not just because of their poor play), but I didn't think that I had my head in the sand.

Mayor Kevin Johnson

1) multiple allegations of sexual abuse through the years, with more women coming forward
2) general mayoral shadiness

First article about it came out in 97: http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/phoenix-suns-kevin-johnson-corroborates-that-hug-may-have-been-too-physically-intimate-6423171

Dave McKenna at Deadspin has been doing some good stories on him for a while: http://deadspin.com/tag/kevin-johnson . Start at the bottom and scroll up.

[Mr. E]

I was with you until bringing in KJ. Not the guy I'd want associated with my franchise anymore, especially since the accusations against him keep piling up. Dude is not a good human being. Honestly, I think he should be in jail.

totally off topic here, but what are you talking about? Has something been going on that I've been missing? Granted, I haven't paid as much attention to all aspects of the Rockets this season (not just because of their poor play), but I didn't think that I had my head in the sand.

There are two KJs in that post, and one of them is bolded. The bolded one is KJ McDaniels, but I think the person being discussed is Kevin Johnson whose name appears earlier on.

OK, yes - you have it right. That's where I was confused.

The Johnson stuff I know about. I just couldn't figure out why KJ McDaniels needed to be in jail. If some poor shot selection is a crime then HPD needs to bring a van to round up the whole Rockets team.

[hcsilla]

Would the Suns be interested in trading Bledsoe for a top 7-8 draft pick this June? Specifically, would the Kings' pick + Ben McLemore and filler for Bledsoe interest suns fans at all,

I think no and no.

[Qwigglez]

This is my take...
Hope for the Suns to get a top 2 pick and take Ingram/Simmons. When this doesn't happen, and the Suns fall to No 3, they can go multiple ways.
1st. Draft Bender. Another Euro unicorn, or maybe just a fat rhino, can't tell yet. I'm really uneasy about the Suns taking him because he screams bust and this is the only year the Suns will land a top 5 pick. Next year it's unlikely the Suns finish bottom 5 regardless of who they draft because there won't be all the drama/injuries like this year. Anyway, pray that Bender is half of what KP is and not another dud. Please don't be.
2nd scenario. Trade the treasure chest for an all-star. DeMarcus Cousins/Jimmy Butler/Paul George/Kevin Love. I know this is very unlikely, and would have to involve a third team. The Suns can offer 3rd pick/Wiz pick/Cavs pick/Miami pick x 2, probably TJ Warren/Archie Goodwin (for package for Jimmy/PG13).

I feel like McD is in his contract year so he might not have the time to sit on his hands and hope another draft pick pans out. Because of this I feel like scenario 2 is where he is leaning towards. But he also can't sit on his hands and hope such a star becomes available.

So here is my prediction...

Suns get the 3rd pick... draft Bender. With the 12th pick, draft Denzel Valentine. McD will rave that even if we had the 1st pick we'd have taken Bender because he is that good. In free agency target Harrison Barnes and Donatas Motiejunas. Actively seek to trade Tucker and probably package Archie Goodwin with him. Bogdan also comes over this summer.

Bledsoe/Knight
Booker/Bogdan
Barnes/Warren
DMo/Bender
Len/Chandler

[MathiasPW]

Would the Suns be interested in trading Bledsoe for a top 7-8 draft pick this June? Specifically, would the Kings' pick + Ben McLemore and filler for Bledsoe interest suns fans at all, or is the desire to keep the current young vets on the roster while rebuilding?

I doubt it. He is our only pg who is a fairly decent passer a decision maker. Booker is a better passer, but probably not best suited at PG. We'd need to have another plan at PG. Now if we used OUR pick on Dunn, tried to work a deal for Teague somehow and give Atlanta more depth, then trade Bledsoe and take the forward we REALLY want at 7-8 because Chriss, Ellenson and Sabonis could all be gone at 12 and those could be our top 3 prospects at PF.

You get one of those with the Sacramento pick (probably Sabonis then take a project like Skal at 12/13). I don't know if Atlanta would do it, but Knight for Teague...give them a 6th man and they can start Schroeder...if not that, Tucker, Archie and a pick?

Teague/Dunn
Booker/McLemore/Bogdan
Warren/FA or Bogdan or 27th pick
Sabonis/Labissiere (maybe keep Leuer as the starter or immediate backup for a year)
Len/Chandler

I like this one the most, so far. I might go for Schroeder, though, so he develops with the rest of the team. But then I guess the trade wouldn't work, salary-wise ?

[MathiasPW]

Random comments on other posts:

1) it is unlikely we will trade Tucker. He is loved by all coaches who played him, sets an example of effort every night, he says the right things (sometimes doesn't do the right things, though) and trading him creates a risk of moral implosion to the team.

2) On the Kanter trade, I am not as opposed as most. Our guard heavy offense is easily neutralized if you clog the paint and gamble on the kick-out passing lanes, so the drive and dish strategy is weakened. This is especially effective when our guards are not the best shooters. And this is why we need a good offensive presence closer to the paint, so we have some inside - out game as well. Markieff Morris, albeit all his drama, is a good passing PF, and gave our offense this option. Kanter could do the same. Len and Chandler certainly can't.

[King4Day]

Front Office: I appreciate loserX wanting to give the current GM more time, but I can't let him salvaging some value from Morris to erase how badly I feel like he mismanaged the roster/assets up to that point. He's out. I want to re-build this team right, and I want to really win back over my fanbase. 20th in attendance just isn't acceptable but I can't blame them after the treadmilling and the drama and finally the bottom falling out.

Enter Steve Nash. This is the guy I need back in the franchise. He still carries a ton of weight with the fans and is a very smart and respected basketball mind. I offer him his choice of the GM or head coaching spot. He doesn't feel confident his back can hold up to the grind of head coaching especially after having spent time with Kerr this year and agrees to take the top job. Now I need a head coach he can work with, who can put an entertaining product on the floor, and help us to start rebuilding this thing. Cue the return of Mike D'Antoni. For some of the heat he has gotten, we need to remember this is the guy who started the league down the path that has led to the current Warriors. They are using many of his principles. He might not can be the guy when we are ready to contend. But he is the perfect guy for right now.

Draft: Picks #3, #12, #28, #33

This is a franchise that has traditionally sold out of the draft--not anymore.

With #3 I agree with loserX and take Dragan Bender. He has star potential and is the kind of offensively skilled big man MDA would love to have.
with #13, I am taking Denzel Valentine. A skilled shooter and passer who again is a perfect weapon for MDA to utilize.
I then take #28 and #33 and trade up to #25 with the Clippers who could use an extra pick in the same range to fill out their roster on the cheap and take Tyler Ulis--yet another weapon for MDA to play with.

Trades:

Like loserX, I don't want someone who doesn't want to be here and we aren't ready to win right now. So I need to find a new hope for Tyson Chandler. I call up Presti and see if he wants a veteran defensive center/leader to play behind Adams in exchange for Kanter. I realize I need to sweeten this deal for him so my offer is Chandler, Tucker(I picked up his option), and Goodwin for Kanter and Singler. He balks at that so I throw in my 2017 1st(lotto protected for 3 years then 2 2nds) and my 2017 2nd. Deal. Thunder add defense, toughness, and leadership and save some money against the cap/potential tax line and add some assets. We get rid of a malcontent and add yet another offensive weapon.

Free Agency: I still have $25M or so in cap space and I have one priority: Harrison Barnes. This is the guy I want to come in and start as an undersized 4. I make him a full 4 year max offer and dare the Warriors to match it. Yeah its overpaying but with so many guys on rookie deals it fits my budget just fine. I call up old Suns Gerald Green and Luis Scola to come back using the last of my cap space and my exception. Min deals to Chris Anderson and Andre Miller fill out my roster with old vets.

Kanter/Len/Anderson
Barnes/Scola/Bender
Warren/Green/Singler
Booker/Knight/Valentine
Bledsoe/Ulis/Miller

I will be on the lookout for deals for one of Knight or Bledsoe if a good one presents itself, but I'm okay with keeping both of them all year. This team is going to struggle defensively unless Len really steps up, but we are going to be very difficult to guard and we are going to have entertaining high scoring basketball. Next summer we will start looking for a 3&D wing to fill the old Raja Bell role or potentially bring in a stretch 4 and move Barnes down to SF to play that role. And if we don't think Len can be a defensive center to interchange with Kanter we will look to add that guy as well. But this year is about fun in the sun and developing our talented young kids.

I kinda dig this thread.

As a Suns fan, I'm not too familiar with the middle/late part of the draft so I can't speak to that.
If we end up with #3, I agree, Bender will be the choice.

I have a hard time seeing the Suns take on Barnes if Knight is still around.
I'd actually like to keep Chandler just for the vet leadership. I know he's expensive and not the same anymore, but I'd rather him over Kanter who's on a similar deal and more offense oriented.

The team is buying into Watson so I would be hesitant to let him go and try another unknown like Nash.
While McDonough has struggled, he's an amazing drafter and Sarver has already said he's not going anywhere.

[thamadkant]

Coaches: Watson is no good, was hired due to his networking and to his reputation. No coaching merit. D'Antoni brings back good memories, but he also had a special player and team back then, its a high risk move. Maybe as an assistant, but a balanced head coach who punish players for defensive lapse make more sense.




Draft picks:
Bender is intriguing. But again, I'll ask the same question I asked months ago. What are the chances 2 Euro bigs come out of consecutive drafts and live up to their top 5 hype. Getting hit by lightning twice may have a higher chance of happening.


Pick 12: Go for a safe pick and draft someone like Sabonis or Rabb. These guys are likely to be 10 year minimum NBA careers as rotation players.


Trade Cavs pick and the second rounder for a future.... Suns have too many young players.





Free Agency:
2 names...
Harrison Barnes and Nic Batum.

Clear up space by trades... See trade section.







Trades:
Knight, Warren, Chandler and a future first for Pau Gasol, Gibson

Trade
Tucker to Grizzlies for their 2016 pick...


Pick 3, Grizzlies Pick, Len for Cousins



C: Cousins / Sabonis
PF: Gasol / Gibson
SF: Barnes/ Batum
SG: Booker / Bogdanovic
PG: Bledsoe / Goodwin

Long limbed back court that can switch to SGs and a huge front court.... And play making AND 3pt shooters at SF spots.

[ATTL]

Great post Chuck. I was thinking before clicking on this thread what I would do, and it lines up great with what you are doing.
First off, MDA would be perfect with the bunch of guards they have right now and it would open up things for Booker to hopefully return back to his beginning of the season form where he was lights out.
Second, Harrison Barnes would be great here. I personally want him on my Timberwolves, but if the Suns get him I wouldn't be angry. I think Bender is the guy and I believe from day 1 he would be a better player than Alex Len, who likely isn't going to fit into this core. I would try and move Len for a mid/late lotto pick. 3 Lotto picks this season, along with Booker/Bledsoe/Barnes/Chandler would be a fun team to watch next season.

I think the wolves would be a better fit for Barnes as they will likely compete for a playoff spot next season. Comes down to who will pay Barnes the most though. I think it's clear that is his primary focus.

[ATTL]

Would the Suns be interested in trading Bledsoe for a top 7-8 draft pick this June? Specifically, would the Kings' pick + Ben McLemore and filler for Bledsoe interest suns fans at all, or is the desire to keep the current young vets on the roster while rebuilding?

I'd prefer to trade Knight and think he would play better next to rondo than bled would but I'm assuming you don't think rondo is coming back.

I wanted to trade bledsoe for the kings pick last year, I'd do the trade this year too. Don't know how other suns fans feel about it though.

My reasoning is I don't believe his knees will hold up and will not be reliable enough to stay in the lineup moving forward. I'd take the best offer we get for him.

[basketballwacko2]

I hate it I want Denzel to drop to the Pacers!!

[R-DAWG]

This has been a great thread. And give Pheonix a lot of credit for their rebuild even though they haven't struck gold yet. They have found a balance of stocking up assets and planning for the future and taking gambles/risks and trying to build a team to win. And they line up to go in either direction this summer. Can possibly trade Bledsoe and/or Knight for more youth, or maybe move picks in trades for proven players.

Question for Suns fans - what would you give up for Kevin Love?
1 of Booker of the Suns 2016 1st round pick (#3)
Washington's 2016 1st round pick
Miami's 2018 1st round pick

Is that enough, too much, too little?

[MathiasPW]

Love is a contradictory topic at the Suns board. He was much more needed/welcome under the Hornacek system.

With the emergence of Booker, the dual PG thingie has lost traction, and it's unclear if we need a more offense or defense driven PF.

I tend to think that between Booker, Warren and Knight (as sixth man) we will have enough offense, and therefore Love becomes an unnecessary luxury. We are doing OK in the rebounding department as well.

So my view is that the Love ship has sailed, and we will go towards a more balanced two way PF, via draft or trade.

To answer your question, I would go option number 2 (the pick) , if it falls outside of the Top 3.

[bwgood77]

This has been a great thread. And give Pheonix a lot of credit for their rebuild even though they haven't struck gold yet. They have found a balance of stocking up assets and planning for the future and taking gambles/risks and trying to build a team to win. And they line up to go in either direction this summer. Can possibly trade Bledsoe and/or Knight for more youth, or maybe move picks in trades for proven players.

Question for Suns fans - what would you give up for Kevin Love?
1 of Booker of the Suns 2016 1st round pick (#3)
Washington's 2016 1st round pick
Miami's 2018 1st round pick

Is that enough, too much, too little?

If the pick isn't top two, I'd probably give up all the picks for Love, only because in my outline above, taking Bender and another PF with the Washington pick would hope to fill that glaring hole at PF, but those could easily be busts or take forever to pan out, and likely never would be as good as Love any way. Love has his flaws but if even one of those picks could turn into what Love is, that would be a huge win, so the only reason not to trade for him would age, but being the fact that he is more of a sure thing than those draft picks or any draft picks, and that we are absolutely loaded a the guard position and have decent center depth, I'd trade the picks. At first thought it seems like too much, but if you are getting Love, it's really not because their is a slim chance that any of those picks ever turns into a player as good as Love.

Though the ceiling of the team isn't championship caliber, I would enjoy watching our current team with Love in it, and if Booker, Warren, Len and Bogdan continue to develop and get better, you have a great shooting team that can spread the floor and rebound with multiple scoring threats.