The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[Saberestar]

Earl Watson: Bledsoe, Knight and Booker are Suns’ future

http://arizonasports.com/story/613524/earl-watson-bledsoe-knight-and-booker-are-suns-future/

IF he is talking exactly what he thinks I have to say after hearing this interview that I don't want Watson back. Plain and simple.

Hopefully all of that is gaining value in a potential trade for Knight.

If he thinks that our team can be a contender in the future with Knight like our starting SG he is crazy, seriously.

[sunshoopjunky]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

2016 #3 (top 1-2 protected) OR Warren (defaults to Warren if pick becomes #1)
2016 #13
2016 #29
Knight
Goodwin (?)

The only way I give them OUR 1st is if they include Portis. I think that pick will have the most value/leverage draft night. The only problem is Boston has the nets pick and they are doing the same dance we are.

[bwgood77]

Only brought Butler's name up as it was just reported (Chris Mannix) Chicago may make Butler available.

Why on earth they would do that who knows, but GMs do some stupid things under pressure.

Oh, I think for some reason I when I read that I had Paul George on my mind, who I don't think will be on the block. As far as Butler goes, that surprises me too, but not as much as George would (being on the block).

[bwgood77]

Why do people make it out that trying to get a 7th or 8th seed is bad? Because you stay mediocre?


I went back over the last 5-6 season of both conferences 7-8th seeded teams and it looked like that's almost the way to go if you don't have a top 5 player. All those teams that ppl portray as mediocre ended up exploding.

Boston had 7th seed doing fine as hell
Hawks had 8th seed turned it in 1st.
Pacers had 8th seed turned it into elite status behind cavs.

Houston had 8th seed and now makes the playoffs yearly and does damage. OKC had 8th seed.....

The list goes on and on.
The barely making the playoffs is a
Myth or behind times with how it works now.

I agree. The 7th or 8th seeds are worthy goals for a young team. When or if we were/are striving to get that seed with an old team is what you don't do...like we were doing 3-4 years ago. Now that we have three guys on rookie contracts in primary roles and probably adding a few more this offseason, that is a worthy goal.

[bwgood77]

Earl Watson: Bledsoe, Knight and Booker are Suns’ future

http://arizonasports.com/story/613524/earl-watson-bledsoe-knight-and-booker-are-suns-future/

IF he is talking exactly what he thinks I have to say after hearing this interview that I don't want Watson back. Plain and simple.

Hopefully all of that is gaining value in a potential trade for Knight.

If he thinks that our team can be a contender in the future with Knight like our starting SG he is crazy, seriously.

I agree with you when I think of my current thoughts, but going back to last summer or before the season when I thought we should play Bledsoe/Knight together only 16 minutes a game and have their other 16 with a primary SG, this makes quite a bit of sense, however, as good as Booker is, I would probably up his minutes to 37 or 38 and maybe play all three together at times. If Bogdan doesn't come over yet, that makes a little bit of sense. Ideally I'd like to trade Knight also, but alternating the three guards all playing with each other with the most combined minutes going to the Bledsoe/Booker might not be bad.

However, I think Jenkins should be a keeper. People keep forgetting him, but this guy has a team option. He's way better than Archie. I'd definitely keep Jenkins. Dallas screwed up in waiving him...they were hoping to sign him again once he cleared but we nabbed him...he is under contract for two more years with team options on both years at dirt cheap prices.

[TeamTragic]

2016 #3 (top 1-2 protected) OR Warren (defaults to Warren if pick becomes #1)
2016 #13
2016 #29
Knight
Goodwin (?)

The only way I give them OUR 1st is if they include Portis. I think that pick will have the most value/leverage draft night. The only problem is Boston has the nets pick and they are doing the same dance we are.

CHI: Butler/Portis
PHX: 2016 #3/2016 #13/2016 #29/Knight/Goodwin

Do you mean the above trade? That is too much. No way that we offer the #3 pick.

[SC923]

Philly needs a PG and has the cap space to take on Knights contract so I think reasonable trades would
1. Knight and PHX 16 1st for PHI 16 1st Assuming they have 1 or 2 it is a complete waste of a pick if they dont pick Simmons or Ingram so if they trade down to our pick they can add either Hield or Murray.
2.Knight for either OKC or MIA first that Philly has. Allows us to dump Knight and his contract, they get a PG

[RaisingArizona]

Did I just read someone wanting to trade all of our assets for Butler?

[DirtyDez]

Philly needs a PG and has the cap space to take on Knights contract so I think reasonable trades would
1. Knight and PHX 16 1st for PHI 16 1st Assuming they have 1 or 2 it is a complete waste of a pick if they dont pick Simmons or Ingram so if they trade down to our pick they can add either Hield or Murray.
2.Knight for either OKC or MIA first that Philly has. Allows us to dump Knight and his contract, they get a PG

Why would Philly trade for BK if they need a PG?

[jcsunsfan]

I have high hopes for this offseason but would be satisfied with drafting Hield and Chriss/Sabonis at 12 then signing Ryan Anderson.
Bledsoe/Knight/Price
Booker/Hield/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren
Anderson/Chriss/Sabonis
Len/Chandler

As much as I hate Knight I think a trio of him Hield and Warren can lead one of the best bench units in the NBA. Pretty good starting group too. We really are not as far away from the playoffs as everyone thinks.

This is the last year Tucker starts. He would have lost his starting job already if Warren had not been injured. Goodwin will be gone IMO.

I could see a small lineup of Bledsoe Booker and Hield being absolutely deadly.

We just need to add a really versatile defender--Shawn Marion style but bigger--to that bunch.


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[Qwigglez]

I don't think Butler is the superstar that we want to build around. He's more of a sidekick. Booker looks like he is sidekick material as well (hopefully he grows into a legit superstar, but for now sidekick will do). Bledsoe also looks like a good sidekick. So with three sidekicks, does that make our team elite?
I will say, Butler/Bledsoe would help mask Booker's defensive deficiency. Len is looking better and better as the season progressed, so I think he is fine to start next season. But we'll have a gaping hole at the 4. Mirza is good off the bench, but we need someone else. If the Bulls did add Portis I would do a Knight/Archie/Warren/3rd pick/Wiz pick for Butler/Portis.

[bwgood77]

I have high hopes for this offseason but would be satisfied with drafting Hield and Chriss/Sabonis at 12 then signing Ryan Anderson.
Bledsoe/Knight/Price
Booker/Hield/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren
Anderson/Chriss/Sabonis
Len/Chandler

As much as I hate Knight I think a trio of him Hield and Warren can lead one of the best bench units in the NBA. Pretty good starting group too. We really are not as far away from the playoffs as everyone thinks.

This is the last year Tucker starts. He would have lost his starting job already if Warren had not been injured. Goodwin will be gone IMO.

I could see a small lineup of Bledsoe Booker and Hield being absolutely deadly.

We just need to add a really versatile defender--Shawn Marion style but bigger--to that bunch.


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I mentioned this on the trade forum but Houston seems like a good trade partner...they could use Knight at PG since Harden is basically the PG and Knight could strictly spot up/back up and we try and get KJ McDaniels as that guy in return, plus filler...I'd like Dekker but that isn't much filler....Brewer seems to be overpriced but he might similarly fit the bill...but if we could figure out a way to make something like that work, that is the one team I think might be a pretty good fit for Knight.

[AtheJ415]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

Seriously, where is this fantasy land NBA in which teams are required to give up hugely successful 19 year olds to get a star? That doesn't happen. Wiggins is probably the only time it is that I can recall. It's largely a package of draft picks of varying values and a few prospects. All you have to do is beat the 2nd best offer. You don't have to give up more than that unless you're a stupid GM like Brooklyn had. If Butler is moved and some player who is crazy young and is as good as Booker is involved, then I'll be shocked.

[AtheJ415]

Why do people make it out that trying to get a 7th or 8th seed is bad? Because you stay mediocre?


I went back over the last 5-6 season of both conferences 7-8th seeded teams and it looked like that's almost the way to go if you don't have a top 5 player. All those teams that ppl portray as mediocre ended up exploding.

Boston had 7th seed doing fine as hell
Hawks had 8th seed turned it in 1st.
Pacers had 8th seed turned it into elite status behind cavs.

Houston had 8th seed and now makes the playoffs yearly and does damage. OKC had 8th seed.....

The list goes on and on.
The barely making the playoffs is a
Myth or behind times with how it works now.

The key is though that you have to be a team who is young and on the upswing to have a promising future at the 7 or 8 seed. For us, we've got to build around youth and a similar age range. Once they become good enough, we'll be in those spots, but until then, I don't see why we'd be better off with some plans to get there that involve signing vets or trading youth for moderate upgrades like I've seen at times here.

[Mulhollanddrive]

That's the conundrum for me.

Bledsoe, Booker, Butler, Len, Chandler doesn't look as good as I hoped, even with a Butler trade.

So would we trade out an elite pick with young assets to go all in for next season.

[AtheJ415]

I have high hopes for this offseason but would be satisfied with drafting Hield and Chriss/Sabonis at 12 then signing Ryan Anderson.
Bledsoe/Knight/Price
Booker/Hield/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren
Anderson/Chriss/Sabonis
Len/Chandler

As much as I hate Knight I think a trio of him Hield and Warren can lead one of the best bench units in the NBA. Pretty good starting group too. We really are not as far away from the playoffs as everyone thinks.

This is the last year Tucker starts. He would have lost his starting job already if Warren had not been injured. Goodwin will be gone IMO.

I could see a small lineup of Bledsoe Booker and Hield being absolutely deadly.

We just need to add a really versatile defender--Shawn Marion style but bigger--to that bunch.


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I mentioned this on the trade forum but Houston seems like a good trade partner...they could use Knight at PG since Harden is basically the PG and Knight could strictly spot up/back up and we try and get KJ McDaniels as that guy in return, plus filler...I'd like Dekker but that isn't much filler....Brewer seems to be overpriced but he might similarly fit the bill...but if we could figure out a way to make something like that work, that is the one team I think might be a pretty good fit for Knight.

I like KJ but I'd hate that trade. Dekker is a rookie who never played and had a serious back injury. Rookies are like cars. Once they drive off the lot, they lose value and particularly when they don't play on a team that needs serious help at backup wing spots and particularly when they blow out their backs. His career may be done, and he was a career role player anyways. I think Bogdan fits that role but is probably even better. Brewer I want nothing to do with. He's a glorified cherry picker who is a solid defender due to length, but why trade one overpriced guy for an older overpriced guy with less upside?

Houston does have some pieces we should want: KJ, Harrell, maybe Jones or DMo depending on what they'd want in signing and the training staff's opinion of DMo's back, a future 1st even if reverse-lotto protected. But I'm not sure any of that is really worth Knight because Houston can't value those guys that much. Even Jones is a guy they probably lose in FA anyways given their desire to have space to get a 3rd star.

I'd rather trade Knight for a pick or maybe throw in Harrell (but with our picks this year I'm not sure that's ideal because we will be adding young backup bigs anyways). I think the most even trade may be to throw in Tucker and make it Beverly, Harrell, and KJ (gives us our backup PG). Houston can't value KJ that much at this point. He's sent to the D league every other week.

Imo, Utah is the better trade partner. Houston's salaries make most trades hard to work, and they'll want to swing for the fences in FA than add a medium-sized long-term salary imo like Knight's (it's high now but will be med-high after the cap rise).

[bwgood77]

This is the last year Tucker starts. He would have lost his starting job already if Warren had not been injured. Goodwin will be gone IMO.

I could see a small lineup of Bledsoe Booker and Hield being absolutely deadly.

We just need to add a really versatile defender--Shawn Marion style but bigger--to that bunch.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I mentioned this on the trade forum but Houston seems like a good trade partner...they could use Knight at PG since Harden is basically the PG and Knight could strictly spot up/back up and we try and get KJ McDaniels as that guy in return, plus filler...I'd like Dekker but that isn't much filler....Brewer seems to be overpriced but he might similarly fit the bill...but if we could figure out a way to make something like that work, that is the one team I think might be a pretty good fit for Knight.

I like KJ but I'd hate that trade. Dekker is a rookie who never played and had a serious back injury. Rookies are like cars. Once they drive off the lot, they lose value and particularly when they don't play on a team that needs serious help at backup wing spots and particularly when they blow out their backs. His career may be done, and he was a career role player anyways. I think Bogdan fits that role but is probably even better. Brewer I want nothing to do with. He's a glorified cherry picker who is a solid defender due to length, but why trade one overpriced guy for an older overpriced guy with less upside?

Houston does have some pieces we should want: KJ, Harrell, maybe Jones or DMo depending on what they'd want in signing and the training staff's opinion of DMo's back, a future 1st even if reverse-lotto protected. But I'm not sure any of that is really worth Knight because Houston can't value those guys that much. Even Jones is a guy they probably lose in FA anyways given their desire to have space to get a 3rd star.

I'd rather trade Knight for a pick or maybe throw in Harrell (but with our picks this year I'm not sure that's ideal because we will be adding young backup bigs anyways). I think the most even trade may be to throw in Tucker and make it Beverly, Harrell, and KJ (gives us our backup PG). Houston can't value KJ that much at this point. He's sent to the D league every other week.

Imo, Utah is the better trade partner. Houston's salaries make most trades hard to work, and they'll want to swing for the fences in FA than add a medium-sized long-term salary imo like Knight's (it's high now but will be med-high after the cap rise).

I wasn't set on any particular player from them other than KJ, but I was just naming filler. I know you feel Utah will get rid of a key piece, and I again will say I think that is far fetched. If they do, it will demand some serious value. Houston is one team that has a ton of players and could use Knight....your proposed trade is fine...I was just throwing in filler above KJ to make it work...I like the guys you name as well. I don't think we will trade Knight for more picks...maybe a late one as a throw in.

[Frank Lee]

The wishful pipe dreaming for a Knight trade should just quit right now.

Nobody is going to pony up 56 mill over 4 yrs for this misguided chucker. Not when you could just sign GGreen, Courtney Lee, or JCrawford for way way less.

Knight was a mistake... and he is our mistake, like it or not. McMully pooed the screwch on both BK and Chandler. They have no value right now... period. Best bet is to try to make the best out of it.... and thus the company spew from Watson. God, I hope he was just spouting. The last thing I want to see is Booker being compromised.

You want to trade somebody... start with Bledsoe

[bwgood77]

The wishful pipe dreaming for a Knight trade should just quit right now.

Nobody is going to pony up 56 mill over 4 yrs for this misguided chucker. Not when you could just sign GGreen, Courtney Lee, or JCrawford for way way less.

Knight was a mistake... and he is our mistake, like it or not. McMully pooed the screwch on both BK and Chandler. They have no value right now... period. Best bet is to try to make the best out of it.... and thus the company spew from Watson. God, I hope he was just spouting. The last thing I want to see is Booker being compromised.

You want to trade somebody... start with Bledsoe

I pretty much agree, but Houston is the one team I came up with because they are desperate to compete and have so many guys who are probably good role players but they have so much depth they don't see the time of day.

Outside of that (and likely not even them) I don't see us getting any value from him with so many good guards in the league. Once the cap goes up, I imagine his value rises if he plays fairly well and has games like his last one where he gets a ton of threes and a few assists, but basically I agree that he has limited value now.

[lilfishi22]

Would we be prepared to go all in for Jimmy Butler?

If they asked for something like Pick 3 / 13 / 29 and Warren and Knight - Yes or No?

Absolutely yes, no take backs allowed.

But we're not getting Butler without giving up Booker. You gotta give to get.

Seriously, where is this fantasy land NBA in which teams are required to give up hugely successful 19 year olds to get a star? That doesn't happen. Wiggins is probably the only time it is that I can recall. It's largely a package of draft picks of varying values and a few prospects. All you have to do is beat the 2nd best offer. You don't have to give up more than that unless you're a stupid GM like Brooklyn had. If Butler is moved and some player who is crazy young and is as good as Booker is involved, then I'll be shocked.

I see rsavaj's point but I'm also with you on this one. That package is one you would trade away only if you have an existing elite piece to pair with Butler. Like when the C's traded away all their youngin's and assets for KG and Ray Allen to pair with PP. Or when Cleveland traded away Wiggins for Love. But if we were to do it, it would be similar to when NY traded all their assets for Melo and had no one to pair him up with. Butler/Bledsoe/Booker(if he's not part of the package) isn't a winning trio. Essentially, we don't have the right pieces to be competitive after trading away all that talent for Butler.