Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[payitforward]

PIF,
I've been on the Whiteside bandwagon for a minute now and im pretty convinced it is the best way to move forward without KD.

- Send Gortat to Boston for either (Jordan Mickey, #31, 2018 1st from Memphis) or (Sullnger and #31). I like Option 1.
- Resign Beal (to max if necessary, but you cant let him walk. S&T for youth/pick and TPE at minimum.)
- Sign Sato to 3/12M
- Sign Joakim Noah to 1 year deal. We'll have caproom, but a 1/5M deal should do it
- Bring back Alan Anderson to vet min.
- Sign one of the many vet FA Pg's to backup Wall (Augustin, Sessions, Bayless, Lawson, Brooks, etc.)
- Sign a vet forward to 1 year deal (Dudley,Ilyasova, Marvin Williams, Jerebko, Trevor Booker, Nene, etc.)
- Draft BPA at 31 (Kay Felder, Brice Johnson, Hernangomez, Ante Zizic etc.)

Wall / Augustin
Beal / Sato / Anderson
Otto / Sato / Oubre
Morris / Mickey /Jerebko
Whiteside / Noah

That is a well rounded and competitive team. We also maintain caproom (about 15M) and flexibility going into 2017 FA if we want to make a big move for someone like Blake Griffin or Kevin Love. We'd have all of our picks, the Memphis pick, Beal @ 22M and Morris @ 8M.

Boston has 8 picks in the coming draft, including 5 of the top 35 picks. They have the #4 and #16 picks overall, and the #22 pick as well. If they count on bringing in those 3 rookies, do you really think they'll be bringing in 2 more with their high R2 picks? Then there may be another bargain out there w/ one of the other 3 picks they after those two!

They'll be dealing picks to establish themselves as able to contend for the ECF next year. I'm sure they love Crowder, but Gortat is a lot more valuable than Crowder, and he's on a great contract. I can well imagine them dealing Crowder and the #31 pick for Gortat. But, we'll see -- it's perfectly possible I'm wrong.

Sato -- I can't get over the way people blithely pencil him in! Tell me -- why do you think he just signed a new multi-year deal in Europe? To make it harder to get to the NBA? Which it does, obviously. Ernie will include his rights in some stupid deal he does. They aren't worth much.

For the rest, the team you describe is our current team w/ Whiteside in place of Gortat and trivial changes otherwise. As to Mickey, he played well in the D League; he might be an NBA player one day, maybe soon. I'd hate to think of going into the season w/ Markieff backed up by Mickey! Not that Ernie is likely to do better....

[payitforward]

It's amazing that with all the screw-ups EG's made, we can still put together a pretty nice team if we're able to sign a guy like Whiteside. It's mainly because of the cap's unprecedented increases these next 2 seasons. Otherwise, we'd have no chance. Might as well try to take advantage of the situation.

The problem being that we don't have as much cap room as *a lot* of other teams. For example, there'll be *a lot* of teams wanting to sign Whiteside. Not much more chance of him coming here than of Durant coming here, to tell the truth.

[payitforward]

I think Whiteside as a Wizard is more of the pie in the sky stuff. Not that it *can't* happen, but it is very very unlikely. Add a few "very"s to that, in fact.

Everybody wants to know where the royal road to the future lies. It lies in fantasies. In dreams. There is no "pretty nice team" in our near future. Not with Ernie at the helm, and Ernie doesn't look to be going anywhere. Plus, if he does get booted, is Ted going to hire a *real* GM -- someone in the Presti/Morey mold -- or is he going to hire someone to carry out his own "strategy"; what do you think?

And if he does hire a "real" GM -- I'd look for him to trade Wall when his value is highest.

In other words, "all the screw-ups Ernie's made" do have their cost. We do have to pay for each and every one of them. We'll paying his f-up bill for a few years.

[Ruzious]

I think Whiteside as a Wizard is more of the pie in the sky stuff. Not that it *can't* happen, but it is very very unlikely. Add a few "very"s to that, in fact.

Everybody wants to know where the royal road to the future lies. It lies in fantasies. In dreams. There is no "pretty nice team" in our near future. Not with Ernie at the helm, and Ernie doesn't look to be going anywhere. Plus, if he does get booted, is Ted going to hire a *real* GM -- someone in the Presti/Morey mold -- or is he going to hire someone to carry out his own "strategy"; what do you think?

And if he does hire a "real" GM -- I'd look for him to trade Wall when his value is highest.

In other words, "all the screw-ups Ernie's made" do have their cost. We do have to pay for each and every one of them. We'll paying his f-up bill for a few years.

Thing is - when you're in the nation's capital, you have a John Wall - who presumably stars want to play with, and you have cap room, you have to make every effort to use that to your benefit. Then if you fail - and that would clearly be a fail - then you consider options such as trading Wall. Stop wasting time focusing on Ernie's bleep-ups, and work on what can do. We all know that he's made it much harder to succeed.

[Illuminaire]

Unfortunately there's really not much else to talk about. First you try the Ruz/PCBoth dream of signing Whiteside and maneuvering to add assets and fight for Griffin in 2017. Then when that fails, you pray that Ted cleans house and hires a GM talented enough to pull off a full rebuild - which probably means trading Wall to stock some otherwise bare cupboards.

There are plenty of paths to mediocrity but very few that will take the Wizards to contention. I think that's why some people feel the need to gripe so much... discussions of future moves are so constrained by past EG mistakes that it's hard not to shake your fist at the wreckage every time you pass by another lost draft pick or useless contract.

[Ruzious]

And Sullinger puts up 20/12/3 (2 of 2 from 3) as Boston beats GS.

[The Consiglieri]

Unfortunately there's really not much else to talk about. First you try the Ruz/PCBoth dream of signing Whiteside and maneuvering to add assets and fight for Griffin in 2017. Then when that fails, you pray that Ted cleans house and hires a GM talented enough to pull off a full rebuild - which probably means trading Wall to stock some otherwise bare cupboards.

There are plenty of paths to mediocrity but very few that will take the Wizards to contention. I think that's why some people feel the need to gripe so much... discussions of future moves are so constrained by past EG mistakes that it's hard not to shake your fist at the wreckage every time you pass by another lost draft pick or useless contract.

What really bums me out is that we all sniffed this out, in '09 most of us (there were some homers, and dreamers that thought there was a way to justify that catastrophically stupid trade, obviously there wasn't), by the Vesely debacle, pretty much all of us. At that point we were just praying that blowing the '09 and '11 drafts entirely wouldn't ruin our ability to pull off a complete rebuild fix it like the warriors were doing. Alas it wasn't to be. One is used to fanbases basically being either meweling babies and homers, hopelessly wrongheaded and owner/F.O. justifying, or delusional self-aggrandizers, always thinking their the genius and their F.O. is incompetent. In this case though, when haven't we been right, when we thought the F.O. was wrong? Maybe Sato. That's about it. There's something truly horrible about us DC sports fans collective GM IQ being consistently higher than the Wiz, and the Redskins for the vast bulk of the past decade in the former case, and the past two decades+ in the latter case (even the Caps and managed to botch things completely on a trade that ranks amongst the NHL's worst these past two-three decades, a trade every single caps fan on the planet new was a disaster the second it was announced, while the Nats, seemingly flawless for a half decade going made a manager hire so dire, every Nats fan alive understood it while the sportswriters of america were giving the dolt a manager of the year award as he blew the Nats playoffs, and following season as thoroughly and completely as it can be imagined in even one's worth ayahuasca induced nightmare). It's just sad. Really sad, it's almost beyond anger, and just to an unfeeling despair at this point.

My only possible solace rests in the possibly that Ted goes Fire GMGM style a la '13 and fires his arse for blowing a third consecutive rebuild, and blowing a solid lottery pick for a cancer/scrub in Markieff. I remain convinced that this is distinctly possible. When he looks and notices that all this cap space opening lead to fools gold, that our '16 draft picks were flushed down the toilet for nothing, that after having 7 lottery picks, and 9 total first rounders in the past eight years, EG landed all of one star, one injury prone, borderline all star alternate, and one maybe role player how can he not make him finally accountable since he can't fire himself as owner for countenancing this bull....Needless to say, EG's asset usage during this Rebuild Part III stands as probably the worst lottery performance during an attempted rebuild since the Wizards went 0 for eighties and nineties entirely with the exception of Howard, Wallace, and Rip Hamilton, all of which they of course squandered in the inimitable wizards/boulez way.

[payitforward]

I think Whiteside as a Wizard is more of the pie in the sky stuff. Not that it *can't* happen, but it is very very unlikely. Add a few "very"s to that, in fact.

Everybody wants to know where the royal road to the future lies. It lies in fantasies. In dreams. There is no "pretty nice team" in our near future. Not with Ernie at the helm, and Ernie doesn't look to be going anywhere. Plus, if he does get booted, is Ted going to hire a *real* GM -- someone in the Presti/Morey mold -- or is he going to hire someone to carry out his own "strategy"; what do you think?

And if he does hire a "real" GM -- I'd look for him to trade Wall when his value is highest.

In other words, "all the screw-ups Ernie's made" do have their cost. We do have to pay for each and every one of them. We'll paying his f-up bill for a few years.

Thing is - when you're in the nation's capital, you have a John Wall - who presumably stars want to play with, and you have cap room, you have to make every effort to use that to your benefit. Then if you fail - and that would clearly be a fail - then you consider options such as trading Wall. Stop wasting time focusing on Ernie's bleep-ups, and work on what can do. We all know that he's made it much harder to succeed.

Point taken (a moment after I referenced the litany one more time!).

But, whether you're in the nation's capital or in OKC, you have to stare facts in the face.

Why would "stars want to play with" John Wall any more than (or even as much as) they'd want to play with Curry, Westbrook, Lowry and 3 or 4 other PGs?

Given the number of players we'll need to add and that we'll have to add every one of them at the new higher retail prices for players that will come with a higher cap, are you sure we even have an average amount of cap room compared to other teams in the league?

You have to use *all* your assets "to your benefit," no? Our single most valuable asset is John Wall. In fact, the only assets we have are the about 4 players that we would need to keep if in fact we were to fulfill the dream of building a contending team in the Wall era. Other than those guys, we have no one that will bring anything in a trade.

So, yeah, if we sign Whiteside, that enables us to free up one of those assets for use (Gortat). Only problem is that there's no particular reason whatsoever to predict Whiteside coming here -- and in his case in particular his productivity really isn't dependent on a "star" point guard.

Don't get me wrong: I hope we sign Whiteside. Just as every fan of every NBA team likely hopes his team signs him. But "sign Whiteside and then..." isn't the start of a plan for the future. It's the start of a fantasy about the future.

[Ruzious]

[quote]Why would "stars want to play with" John Wall any more than (or even as much as) they'd want to play with Curry, Westbrook, Lowry and 3 or 4 other PGs? [/quote}
Look at their teams. Other than Toronto, they're already loaded and likely not looking to add a star. That leaves Toronto. Why would stars look to play in Canada rather than DC? So that they could move out of their country, pay more taxes, or freeze their arses off year round? Aye?

You have some points, and I'm not the most positive person in the world, but I really get tired of wallowing in your sometimes endless sea of negativity. You push too far too often. We're fans because we have some hope. And it seems like your only purpose is to find what little hope there is and step on its neck. If I do that, there's no purpose in being a fan.

[Illuminaire]

I think some of us rant as a cathartic release from the frustration.

I've been quiet for a long time because I couldn't find anything positive to say. I thought the success people were celebrating was fool's gold, and I washed my hands of the team until EG was gone. Whether I was correct or not, frothing about it for the last two years would not exactly have enriched these boards. I consider you all friends, and elected to just shut up until things changed.

(I'm letting myself have a little more of a leash these days because I have hope that change is finally coming. Finally. Grrr!)

[payitforward]

...I really get tired of wallowing in your sometimes endless sea of negativity. ... We're fans because we have some hope. And it seems like your only purpose is to find what little hope there is and step on its neck....

Ruz -- you are right. I wouldn't exactly call my last posts "negativity" however. I'd call them stark -- starker than necessary and too stark for what you rightly refer as a fan's natural hope.

So, first off I apologize -- the "starkness" has its source in something completely different and very difficult that I've been having to deal with in the last week or so; I didn't realize that it was leaking into my posts here, but... so it was. Sorry gang! Will keep a rein on it!

However, I have also formulated some moves I thought we might have a chance to make that are very positive and oriented to making us a heck of a good team in the future. And, hey -- come to think of it, Ruz -- you "stepped on the neck" of my Jae Crowder trade!

For sure, if we do sign Hassan Whiteside, we will have taken a major jump (assuming health, etc....) -- so, yeah, lets do that. And then trade Gortat for Crowder and a high R2 pick (if we can) and Beal for a promising young big.

[nate33]

I'm really coming around on this Whiteside idea. I heard a podcast recently when Nate Duncan interviewed NBA expert David Locke. Locke made the interesting point that perhaps the biggest X-factor in NBA offenses today is to have a true pick-and-roll lob threat - guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, or Tyson Chandler from a few years ago. Those guys put a ton of pressure on the defense because it gives the guard a vertical target on the pick-and-roll. A really good center can stop a Wall/Gortat pick and roll just by positioning himself ideally between the two as they roll to take away that pass. Weak side help isn't necessary. But with a lob threat, even great positioning isn't enough. There is simply no way to prevent that pass while also stopping the guard, not unless you have weak side help.

The Clippers are playing great even without Griffin because of the Paul/Jordan combo. It just can't be stopped without bending the defense to the breaking point.

A Wall/Whiteside combination could be as potent (although Wall's mediocre midrange game is a problem).

[payitforward]

I'm really coming around on this Whiteside idea. I heard a podcast recently when Nate Duncan interviewed NBA expert David Locke. Locke made the interesting point that perhaps the biggest X-factor in NBA offenses today is to have a true pick-and-roll lob threat - guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, or Tyson Chandler from a few years ago. Those guys put a ton of pressure on the defense because it gives the guard a vertical target on the pick-and-roll. A really good center can stop a Wall/Gortat pick and roll just by positioning himself ideally between the two as they roll to take away that pass. Weak side help isn't necessary. But with a lob threat, even great positioning isn't enough. There is simply no way to prevent that pass while also stopping the guard, not unless you have weak side help.

The Clippers are playing great even without Griffin because of the Paul/Jordan combo. It just can't be stopped without bending the defense to the breaking point.

A Wall/Whiteside combination could be as potent (although Wall's mediocre midrange game is a problem).

Box Score Geeks has Whiteside responsible for 1/3 of all Miami's wins (http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/teams/mia), and it's easy to see why.

I fear Miami will break the bank to keep him. They don't have much salary flexibility -- a more extreme version of our situation: they have a hold on 5 guys (Bosh, Dragic, Winslow, McRoberts, & Richardson) for $49m and have no draft picks (i.e. cheap labor) -- but they are in the toilet w/o him, and they are a rich franchise. Hard to think they won't go all out to re-sign Whiteside. Has he said he wants to leave?

[dckingsfan]

I'm really coming around on this Whiteside idea. I heard a podcast recently when Nate Duncan interviewed NBA expert David Locke. Locke made the interesting point that perhaps the biggest X-factor in NBA offenses today is to have a true pick-and-roll lob threat - guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, or Tyson Chandler from a few years ago. Those guys put a ton of pressure on the defense because it gives the guard a vertical target on the pick-and-roll. A really good center can stop a Wall/Gortat pick and roll just by positioning himself ideally between the two as they roll to take away that pass. Weak side help isn't necessary. But with a lob threat, even great positioning isn't enough. There is simply no way to prevent that pass while also stopping the guard, not unless you have weak side help.

The Clippers are playing great even without Griffin because of the Paul/Jordan combo. It just can't be stopped without bending the defense to the breaking point.

A Wall/Whiteside combination could be as potent (although Wall's mediocre midrange game is a problem).

So, then a Beal/Morris/Gortat package would make sense to someone - although I am not sure who?

[nate33]

I'm really coming around on this Whiteside idea. I heard a podcast recently when Nate Duncan interviewed NBA expert David Locke. Locke made the interesting point that perhaps the biggest X-factor in NBA offenses today is to have a true pick-and-roll lob threat - guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, or Tyson Chandler from a few years ago. Those guys put a ton of pressure on the defense because it gives the guard a vertical target on the pick-and-roll. A really good center can stop a Wall/Gortat pick and roll just by positioning himself ideally between the two as they roll to take away that pass. Weak side help isn't necessary. But with a lob threat, even great positioning isn't enough. There is simply no way to prevent that pass while also stopping the guard, not unless you have weak side help.

The Clippers are playing great even without Griffin because of the Paul/Jordan combo. It just can't be stopped without bending the defense to the breaking point.

A Wall/Whiteside combination could be as potent (although Wall's mediocre midrange game is a problem).

So, then a Beal/Morris/Gortat package would make sense to someone - although I am not sure who?

Nah. I'm not trading for Whiteside. I'd go after him via free agency. Miami doesn't have Bird Rights. In order to match, they'd have to let Wade go, which detracts from Miami as a destination for Whiteside. Bosh has health issues and Wade could be gone. Does Whiteside want to play for the next 4 years alongside Wall, Beal, Porter and Morris or alongside Dragic, Winslow and an iffy Bosh? I think we have a powerful argument.

[queridiculo]

A Gortat Whiteside sign and trade would be what I am after.

It works for both teams, the Heat remain competitive and the Wizards get younger and could conceivably clear enough cap space to either round out the roster with quality depth, or to pursue another near max free agent.

[dckingsfan]

I'm really coming around on this Whiteside idea. I heard a podcast recently when Nate Duncan interviewed NBA expert David Locke. Locke made the interesting point that perhaps the biggest X-factor in NBA offenses today is to have a true pick-and-roll lob threat - guys like DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, or Tyson Chandler from a few years ago. Those guys put a ton of pressure on the defense because it gives the guard a vertical target on the pick-and-roll. A really good center can stop a Wall/Gortat pick and roll just by positioning himself ideally between the two as they roll to take away that pass. Weak side help isn't necessary. But with a lob threat, even great positioning isn't enough. There is simply no way to prevent that pass while also stopping the guard, not unless you have weak side help.

The Clippers are playing great even without Griffin because of the Paul/Jordan combo. It just can't be stopped without bending the defense to the breaking point.

A Wall/Whiteside combination could be as potent (although Wall's mediocre midrange game is a problem).

So, then a Beal/Morris/Gortat package would make sense to someone - although I am not sure who?

Nah. I'm not trading for Whiteside. I'd go after him via free agency. Miami doesn't have Bird Rights. In order to match, they'd have to let Wade go, which detracts from Miami as a destination for Whiteside. Bosh has health issues and Wade could be gone. Does Whiteside want to play for the next 4 years alongside Wall, Beal, Porter and Morris or alongside Dragic, Winslow and an iffy Bosh? I think we have a powerful argument.

Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. Yes, go for Whiteside in FA. But then jettison Gortat (don't need a pouting center), jettison Morris (need to keep the craziness in the locker room to a minimum) and jettison Beal (don't want to pay the max for an often injured player.

[nate33]

A Gortat Whiteside sign and trade would be what I am after.

It works for both teams, the Heat remain competitive and the Wizards get younger and could conceivably clear enough cap space to either round out the roster with quality depth, or to pursue another near max free agent.

That actually makes a ton of sense from a team building standpoint. I'm not really sure how to executive it logistically though. Whiteside is going to go where he wants to go. Miami doesn't really have any leverage to try and trade him. Legally, they can't S&T him to a deal better than what Washington could already offer in the first place.

Better for Washington to just sign Whiteside and then try and trade Gortat for extra value. Somebody somewhere will give up at least a few 2nd round picks and cap space for him. If that other team happens to be Miami, so be it.

[nate33]

So, then a Beal/Morris/Gortat package would make sense to someone - although I am not sure who?

Nah. I'm not trading for Whiteside. I'd go after him via free agency. Miami doesn't have Bird Rights. In order to match, they'd have to let Wade go, which detracts from Miami as a destination for Whiteside. Bosh has health issues and Wade could be gone. Does Whiteside want to play for the next 4 years alongside Wall, Beal, Porter and Morris or alongside Dragic, Winslow and an iffy Bosh? I think we have a powerful argument.

Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. Yes, go for Whiteside in FA. But then jettison Gortat (don't need a pouting center), jettison Morris (need to keep the craziness in the locker room to a minimum) and jettison Beal (don't want to pay the max for an often injured player.

If we signed Whiteside, I'd try and trade Gortat, but I'd feel no compulsion to trade Morris or Beal. Beal has no value anyhow. And Morris is still the best PF we've got. He's a serviceable 3-point shooter and he at least has the capability of guarding legit PF's while also chasing around smallball 4's if necessary. I'm not necessarily opposed to trading him, it would depend on what we get in return. I just don't see anybody trading a better PF for him.

The main thing is to execute a Gortat for Whiteside swap. It may or may not make us better in the short term, but at least it extends our window of opportunity. Every player on the team would be 27 or younger. We wouldn't have to hastily try to construct a win now roster before Gortat declines.

[dckingsfan]

I really don't like the idea of Whiteside/Morris - I think that would be heading for a boatload of trouble both on and off the court. And with Beal, it should be a sign and trade. I am probably in the minority, but I think he will always have injury problems. I am much higher on Porter.