'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

Moderators: trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ

The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,513
And1: 9,938
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#81 » by The-Power » Fri Apr 1, 2016 9:37 pm

tredigs wrote:
lorak wrote:
tredigs wrote:Do you have a link to the # of plays here?


http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/?PT=player&OD=offensive



Towns having a 10 point higher O rating + massively better efficiency while carrying a larger load in a broken offensive system creates enough of a chasm between the two for this not to be a serious debate to me.


Numbers posted by The-Power above (TSA) suggest, that they carry the same offensive load per 100 poss or similar per minutes played. Knicks also have broken offensive system and no one close in playmaking ability to Rubio.

Also, Towns ORTG is 108.3, Porzingis 106.5, so not 10 difference, but much smaller and considering that NYK are worse that difference in reality is even smaller.

According to bbref Towns has a team leading 113 Orating (team 106) along with ~18ppg on a 60% TS. Kristaps has a 103 Orating (team 105) and a meager 52% TS on 14 ppg. Debatable with Rubio and co in that system offering a better situation than Calderon/Melo and co. I don't see the KAT in a better space this particular year.

The ORTG you're citing is Individual ORTG from bbref. That's entirely based on the box score (non-PM), meant to measure individual efficiency. It says nothing direct about impact at the team level.
lorak
Head Coach
Posts: 6,317
And1: 2,237
Joined: Nov 23, 2009

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#82 » by lorak » Fri Apr 1, 2016 9:38 pm

The-Power wrote:
lorak wrote:
The-Power wrote:As for the DPOY discussions, I looked at some player tracking data and calculated a bit for Green and Kawhi.

I used all the categories with data available (Isolation, Ball Handler, Roll Man, Post-Up, Spot-Up, Hand-Off, Off-Screen),


That are not all categories available, just the ones from Synergy, but there is more (and better as collected automatically, not by humans like in Synergy case) from SportVU.

There is play-type tracked data available from SportVU for free?


There is tracking data (that's what you were talking about) with defended FGA from every distance. No play types, but I suppose they cover every shot and are free from human error (or even bias - what probably happens with Syngery's tracking people).

tredigs,
I guess you are referring to individual ORTG created long time ago by Oliver. It's jus another variance of box score metric and one with less value.
The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,513
And1: 9,938
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#83 » by The-Power » Fri Apr 1, 2016 9:40 pm

lorak wrote:
The-Power wrote:
lorak wrote:
That are not all categories available, just the ones from Synergy, but there is more (and better as collected automatically, not by humans like in Synergy case) from SportVU.

There is play-type tracked data available from SportVU for free?


There is tracking data (that's what you were talking about) with defended FGA from every distance. No play types, but I suppose they cover every shot and are free from human error (or even bias - what probably happens with Syngery's tracking people).

Yeah, I'm aware of that but this is not what I wanted to look at in this particular case.
User avatar
ronnymac2
RealGM
Posts: 11,008
And1: 5,077
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#84 » by ronnymac2 » Sat Apr 2, 2016 2:43 am

RSCD3_ wrote:So for those High on draymond such as DRZA and Spaceman, how does everyone feel about Draymond's offense compared to Kawhi's.

Draymond has the advantage as a playmaker and can still punish the defense with stright line drives/post ups/or 3's at a decent rate when they take him too lightly, while kawhi scores more efficiently thanks to a very diverse array or weapons with less turnovers while being the number one option for the spurs.

I give Kawhi, an advantage on offense that I believe is larger than any possible defensive advantages Draymond might have. I consider Kawhi in the same class defensively as Green though and he's balanced his O/D very well


Draymond's impact is probably similar or better since he's playing C and playing it in a way we have literally never seen before (7 assists, point forward ball-handling/pressure release, 40% volume 3-pointer shooting C, dives to the rim well).

Leonard is the superior offensive player though. Unbelievable turnover percentage for a 20 PPG scorer, shoots 50/45/88 (volume catch-and-shoot floor spreading), good on the offensive glass for a team which doesn't look to hit the offensive glass, and absolutely elite post/midpost scoring skillset. High BBALL IQ and makes correct swing passes as well.
Pay no mind to the battles you've won
It'll take a lot more than rage and muscle
Open your heart and hands, my son
Or you'll never make it over the river
User avatar
ronnymac2
RealGM
Posts: 11,008
And1: 5,077
Joined: Apr 11, 2008
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#85 » by ronnymac2 » Sat Apr 2, 2016 2:59 am

The-Power wrote:
Spoiler:
The talk about defense is interesting but one thing is pretty clear: Porzingis does look like the superior defender beyond the box score. SportsVU data shows a clear advantage, on/off data leaves us with the same impression, RPM and RAPM favor him heavily on defense.

Let's look at the impact on offense. Let's break down individually used offensive possessions and determine the threshold for what Porzingis has to offer more in terms of spacing, playmaking, screen setting etc. (let's call it 'additional impact') in oder to make up for the individual gap on a team level. Numbers I use are for 100 offensive possessions, FTs are multiplied by the common factor 0.44. It's getting late over here, so I can't guarantee 100% accuracy.

Towns ends 27.8 possessions (24.3 TSA, 3.5 TOV). These 27.8 ended possessions create 29.1 individual points, which means roughly 1.047 PPP. 72.2 possessions are left for his teammates. He also grabs 4.5 OREB to get his team extra possessions.

Porzingis incidentally ends 27.8 possessions as well (24.8 TSA, 3.0 TOV). These 27.8 ended possessions create 25.8 individual points, which means roughly 0.928 PPP. 72.2 possessions are left for his teammates. He also grabs 3.3 OREB to get his teams extra possessions.

For the sake of comparison, we must look at the data for the average team in order to make this comparison viable. I realize that teammates are important when it comes to individual contributions in the form of scoring and turning the ball over as well, but this isn't something we can't take into consideration here since there is no way to objectively quantify it.

The league-average TOV% is 13.2 which means that statistically, 62.7 of the 72.2 possession end in scoring attempts. The league-average TS% is at 54.1, i.e. these 62.7 possessions generate 67.8 points or 1.082 PPTSA. The players points per 100 plus the team's points (67.8 in both cases) gives us the number of the average team production plus the player's individual contribution per 100 possessions. Number for Towns: 96.9. Number for Porzingis: 93.6. The difference: 3.3.

If we assume that neither player has a positive or negative influence on the TOV% of the rest of his team, Porzingis additional impact would have to equal 3.3 Points for those 62.7 Possessions in order to be equally effective on offense at the team level. This means, in concrete numbers, an increase 2.6% of his teammates TS% (to give an impression of the extent: this is roughly the difference between the second best offense and league average, or the second worst offense and league average).

This number grows if we substract the OREB from the possessions a player ends by himself, because he regains possessions for his team. This seems fair if we rate Porzingis'' spacing effect to Towns' properly, as playing under the rim often goes hand in hand with less spacing effect on these possessions by design. In doing so, the difference between their numbers (see above) becomes 4.5 (101.2 - 96.7), while the opportunities for his team to make up for this difference increases by roughly 2.8 possessions (applying the league-average TOV% for possessions after offensive rebounds; the actual TOV% is probably a little lower, though) to 65.5. In order to make up for 4.5 Points in 65.5 scoring possessions, the TS% of his teammates must increase by 3.4% instead of 2.6%.

At the same time, we must factor in the possessions a team regains from offensive rebounds after Porzingis' and Towns' missed attempts. This obviously works in Porzingis' favor, statistically, who misses more shots than Towns. It is somewhat flawed to simply use the league average OREB% as misses from Towns and Porzingis, two big men, should be rebounded by their own teammates less often. It is probably, however, not seldomly the case that Towns and Porzingis grab their own missess around the rim which would already be captured by the individual offensive rebound numbers, which were already used before. Also, Porzingis misses should be rebounded more often due to the longer distance on his shots on average and the fact that he plays at the 4 while Towns plays Center.

Anyway, if we also factor in missed shots - not counting offensive rebounds after missed free throws, the number is probably negligible - then the numbers change again. Using the league-average OREB% is probably slightly beneficial to Towns in this comparison in theory as he plays Center, but applying the average OREB% for misses of big men also benefits Porzingis as he misses more shots. The OREB% of the league is at 23.8. So, Towns 9.9 misses should result in 2.36 extra possessions, Porzingis 12.8 misses should result in 3.05 extra possessions. Adjusted for turnovers, these gives their teams 2.05 and 2.65 extra scoring possessions respectively.

Calculating with league-average TS% after offensive rebounds, the difference to make up for decreases from 4.5 to 3.9 (103.4 - 99.5). Porzingis' team now has 68.15 scoring possessions to score 3.9 extra points in order to be as efficient as Towns' team on offense. This means the TS% must increase by 2.85% based on Porzingis additional impact.

I'm not entirely sure if bbref uses their glossary-definition of possession when calculating the per 100 possession averages as well (they probably do), which would skew the results to some extent because of how offensive rebounds are treated in the formula IIRC but let's disregard potential implications for a moment as you should get the idea and roughly accurate numbers anyway.
____________________________________

Long story short: without looking at factors at the team level influencing individual production, Porzingis' average team must have a +2.85 TS% in order to be as efficient as Towns' average team. The question is: does Porzingis' additional impact (spacing, playmaking, screen-setting etc.) produces this difference compared to Towns on similarly talented and constructed teams? I doubt it, at this point, but others may disagree. But at least we now have a number - a threshold - to look at.

Note that this is only factoring in offense and also doesn't include the negative impact of turnovers defensively (only offensively, as a lost possession). So the slightly higher number of turnovers committed by Towns would be something to look at when we compare defense at a team level. As I wrote above, I also won't guarantee accuracy as it's late and I quickly calculated it. It was a fun exercise but please do not quote me in your scientific papers. :D

edit: talking about accuracy, I edited the TSA presented above which where wrong by 1. But I calculated with the correct number, so the results remain unaffected.


Grateful for the post, man. I think you're on to something as far as finding out how an offensive player affects the possessions he doesn't finish. Even the highest USG% stars finish less than 35% of their team's possessions, and it's relatively easy to measure their individual efficiency on those finishes, but how do they affect the remaining 65%-70% (the USG% remaining for the surrounding players)? How are they driving the offense and interacting with their teammates? The greatest obstacle in the way of finding this out is trying to discern how capable the surrounding players are at accepting our subject's help.

RE: Porzingis grabbing his own misses - He definitely does that a lot. I don't think he's a very good finisher around the rim if he is not dunking; he rushes shots off the glass. But he's so springy and long right now that he's able to corral the miss or tip it in a lot of times.

I'm happy KP is getting some support. I'd take KAT over him for ROY, and there's no doubt that in reality, Towns is going to win it. But KP is a strong number 2.
Pay no mind to the battles you've won
It'll take a lot more than rage and muscle
Open your heart and hands, my son
Or you'll never make it over the river
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 19,561
And1: 16,036
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#86 » by GSP » Sat Apr 2, 2016 5:19 am

I feel like Stevens isnt getting the credit he deserves here. I had him as my Coach of the year last season and i dont see him mentioned here so far. To me hes shoe in Coach of the Year. Celtics are just the best coaches team and hes the clear mind for their offense and defense unlike most other top coaches. Fact that we're #8 Srs, top 10 offense and top 5 defense is insane. For a large portion of the season our scoring margin was only behind Golden State and San Antonio while being the #2 defense. Then theres the development of Crowder which Stevens absolutely deserves the credit for. Another elite coach in Carlisle failed to do much of anything with him. I understand the rationale for Kerr/Walton but things should be relative for this award IMO and you cant underestimate their talent level and reliance on Stephs talent for their historic offense. I dont think the Gs coaches should even be above Stotts or Clifford necessarily. Just beat the Warriors at their own game at home.
The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,513
And1: 9,938
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#87 » by The-Power » Sat Apr 2, 2016 11:46 am

Adding to what I wrote earlier about Kawhi and Draymond - both being absolutely elite by the player tracking data - I looked at the defensive possessions these players are involved. This gives us an idea about the impact a player exerts on a play-to-play basis although I want to stress that this doesn't necessarily determine who is more valuable or impactful overall.

One may find it more valuable to shut down the opponent's best perimeter player than to exert impact on more possessions, or one can reasonably argue that being involved in less possessions already has something to do with the impact of a player, which leads to shifting game plans in order to avoid this player on defense. Anyhow, I'll simply share my findings and you can decide how to interpret and rate them.

Results: Extrapolating from the play type data, I calculated that Green defended 1115 tracked possessions while Leonard defended 716 tracked possessions. Adjusted for games and overall minutes played as well as the pace of the game, my results indicated that Green is directly involved in 20.2% of his team's defensive possessions when he is on the court while Kawhi is directly involved in 16.3% of his team's defensive possessions.

The numbers seem to be too low, so tread carefully when using them but the relation is the key here and it should remain unaffected from issues with the data (or my calculations). This is in line with the player tracking defense from SportsVU, where the volume of Green's defensive contests clearly exceeds Kawhi's defensive contests per game (16.4 DFGA to 9.4 DFGA, with both having roughly equal success). This isn't adjusted for pace and MPG, so after the adjustment the gap would be smaller but still significant.

To follow the math and check it, open the spoilers.

Spoiler:
Green:
Freq: 15.7% = 175 Possessions (Numbers from Isolation Defense)
100 / 15.7 = 6.36942 (= Factor)
6.36942 * 175 = 1115 (= Defended Possessions Overall)

On-Court Pace: 103.55 (stats.nba.com)
Minutes Played: 2564

Pace is defined as Possessions per 48 Minutes, ergo:
2564 / 48 = 53.42 (= 'Total Games Played')
53.42 * 103.55 = 5532 (= Total On-Court Team (Defensive) Possessions)

1115 / 5532 = 0.202 (= Share of Possessions Involved)

Spoiler:
Leonard:
Freq: 8.1% = 58 Possessions (Numbers from Isolation Defense)
100 / 8.1 = 12.34567 (= Factor)
12.34567 * 58 = 716 (= Defended Possessions Overall)

On-Court Pace: 96.26 (stats.nba.com)
Minutes Played: 2189

Pace is defined as Possessions per 48 Minutes, ergo:
2189 / 48 = 45.6 (= 'Total Games Played')
45.6 * 96.26 = 4389 (= Total On-Court Team (Defensive) Possessions)

716 / 4389 = 0.163 (= Share of Possessions Involved)
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#88 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Apr 2, 2016 2:04 pm

I have Stevens and Stots as #1 and #2 for COY.

3rd place will probably go to Popovich.
Dr Spaceman
General Manager
Posts: 8,575
And1: 11,211
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#89 » by Dr Spaceman » Sat Apr 2, 2016 4:43 pm

The Spurs are right now playing at a 69 win pace. Their highest-minute player is 57th in the league. Tim Duncan has played 100 more minutes than David West, 40 more than Boris Diaw, and 120 less than Patty Mills. Their top 8 players have missed a combined 48 games (almost 70 if we include Ginobili, who has been their 2nd best offensive player, on balance). They have the GOAT defense and one of the best SRS of all time driven in large part by bench lineups.

There's no one else in the discussion for COY for me.
“I’m not the fastest guy on the court, but I can dictate when the race begins.”
NinjaSheppard
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,775
And1: 1,404
Joined: May 18, 2012
 

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#90 » by NinjaSheppard » Sat Apr 2, 2016 4:46 pm

Pretty much.

Arguing Stotts or Stevens over Pop for COTY is to me like saying Kyle Lowry has been better than Steph Curry this year.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#91 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Apr 2, 2016 5:05 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:Pretty much.

Arguing Stotts or Stevens over Pop for COTY is to me like saying Kyle Lowry has been better than Steph Curry this year.


Uh...I don't think so at all.

I know I am going to get a lot of flack for this, but Popovich really is not untouchable. Even last year, Popovich was out coached by Doc Rivers - he's not the Stephen Curry of coaches...thats a preposterous notion.

Popovich and Kerr are great coaches, but they also have the two most talented teams in the league - that's a big coincidence.

That's not to mention that Brad Stevens isn't some novice coach, the guys feats in the NCAA alone are above most NBA coaches - comparing Brad Stevens to Kyle Lowry is an insult and it's ignorant on top of that.
lorak
Head Coach
Posts: 6,317
And1: 2,237
Joined: Nov 23, 2009

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#92 » by lorak » Sat Apr 2, 2016 5:24 pm

How many of you (pro Pop) expected Blazers in the playoffs? Or that Celtics will be 3 SRS team with top 5 defense, while their best defensive big is 23MPG Amir?

And BTW, what is argument that Pop over Kerr?
NinjaSheppard
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,775
And1: 1,404
Joined: May 18, 2012
 

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#93 » by NinjaSheppard » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:04 pm

lorak wrote:How many of you (pro Pop) expected Blazers in the playoffs? Or that Celtics will be 3 SRS team with top 5 defense, while their best defensive big is 23MPG Amir?

And BTW, what is argument that Pop over Kerr?


I had the Celtics as the 2 seed so if anything they are actually not doing quite as good as I thought they would be.

I didn't see the Blazers as a playoff team but at the same time I had the Spurs as the 4th seed and definitely not an All Time great SRS team so of all teams I underestimated them by the most when it comes to level of play.

Pop's argument over Kerr is the same argument a guy who plays 80 games has over a guy that plays 40 games
User avatar
SideshowBob
General Manager
Posts: 9,064
And1: 6,272
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Location: Washington DC
 

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#94 » by SideshowBob » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:10 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:The Spurs are right now playing at a 69 win pace. Their highest-minute player is 57th in the league. Tim Duncan has played 100 more minutes than David West, 40 more than Boris Diaw, and 120 less than Patty Mills. Their top 8 players have missed a combined 48 games (almost 70 if we include Ginobili, who has been their 2nd best offensive player, on balance). They have the GOAT defense and one of the best SRS of all time driven in large part by bench lineups.

There's no one else in the discussion for COY for me.


We should consider a mini Peak Coach seasons project
But in his home dwelling...the hi-top faded warrior is revered. *Smack!* The sound of his palm blocking the basketball... the sound of thousands rising, roaring... the sound of "get that sugar honey iced tea outta here!"
Dr Spaceman
General Manager
Posts: 8,575
And1: 11,211
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#95 » by Dr Spaceman » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:24 pm

lorak wrote:How many of you (pro Pop) expected Blazers in the playoffs? Or that Celtics will be 3 SRS team with top 5 defense, while their best defensive big is 23MPG Amir?


The Celtics are going to out produce their win projection by about 3-4. The Spurs are going to outperform theirs by 15.

ESPN had the Spurs at 55 wins preseason. 538 had them at 57. I get the Spurs are talented, but that doesn't mean they can't massively overachieve.

EDIT: Also "best defensive big" is being misleading. Amir is probably their 4th best defensive player overall.
“I’m not the fastest guy on the court, but I can dictate when the race begins.”
lorak
Head Coach
Posts: 6,317
And1: 2,237
Joined: Nov 23, 2009

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#96 » by lorak » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:28 pm

^
Spurs won 55 games last year. They added Lamarcus + West, Kawhi's development was expected and still were projected as 55 win team? Seems like something was really wrong with ESPN's projections.
Dr Spaceman
General Manager
Posts: 8,575
And1: 11,211
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#97 » by Dr Spaceman » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:51 pm

lorak wrote:^
Spurs won 55 games last year. They added Lamarcus + West, Kawhi's development was expected and still were projected as 55 win team? Seems like something was really wrong with ESPN's projections.


West is a serious downgrade from Splitter and Balinelli was arguably their biggest bench contributor last season. Joseph was a solid contributor as well.

Its not just ESPN's projections. Most everyone thought they'd be in the low-mid 50s- Zach Lowe thought the Thunder and I believe Clippers were clearly better going into the season. Manu and Parker were thought to be totally done and their 6 guard rotation was now down to 3.

I love LaMarcus but he clearly is not worth 15 wins.
“I’m not the fastest guy on the court, but I can dictate when the race begins.”
User avatar
PaulieWal
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 13,909
And1: 16,218
Joined: Aug 28, 2013

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#98 » by PaulieWal » Sat Apr 2, 2016 6:54 pm

For COY I am probably going with Pop/Stevens/Stotts with HM to Spo and Clifford.

I don't think Kerr and Walton should qualify for this award. I get it, they are going to break 72 wins but still. Walton was on the bench for half the season and now Kerr is back. I see it like MVP voting. You can't win the award if you are going to miss, say 20-30 games.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 92,584
And1: 98,924
Joined: May 19, 2012
Location: Purgatory
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#99 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Apr 2, 2016 7:19 pm

PaulieWal wrote:For COY I am probably going with Pop/Stevens/Stotts with HM to Spo and Clifford.

I don't think Kerr and Walton should qualify for this award. I get it, they are going to break 72 wins but still. Walton was on the bench for half the season and now Kerr is back. I see it like MVP voting. You can't win the award if you are going to miss, say 20-30 games.



Yeah for me its simple--it means whatever Kerr and Walton are doing during games isn't something that someone else couldn't do--since each of them did it. Now in-game coaching is only so much of the job--obviously a ton of work is done outside of those 48 minutes 82 times a year. But its hardly nothing either. And it becomes only more crucial in the playoffs. To me it just goes to show the huge talent advantage the Warriors have and not that Kerr/Walton are automatically the best coaches in the league.

I know we can point to the improvements over Mark Jackson and I do give Kerr a lot of credit--but I think we have to all be honest and realize you probably could have found 75 guys who would have been improvements over Jackson, maybe more considering how wheels-off he could be and how difficult he was to get along with.


I do agree the award shouldn't always go to the coach of teh bad team who got good like it does a lot. But nor should it automatically go to the coach with the best talent either.
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,513
And1: 9,938
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: '15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#100 » by The-Power » Sat Apr 2, 2016 7:22 pm

PaulieWal wrote:I don't think Kerr and Walton should qualify for this award. I get it, they are going to break 72 wins but still. Walton was on the bench for half the season and now Kerr is back. I see it like MVP voting. You can't win the award if you are going to miss, say 20-30 games.

I understand this notion and it is perfectly reasonable to not vote for Kerr here. But: a coach missing games and a player missing games is vastly different. Let's be clear, even though Kerr wasn't coaching at the line he still impacted the team. The Warriors play Kerr's system, Kerr was in contact with Walton all the time and also attended practice frequently. This is the main reason why it is absolutely justified to credit Kerr with all the wins this seasons as it was his team from start to finish.

So yeah, I understand if someone doesn't have Kerr on their ballot. Pop, Stotts, Stevens etc. all did a great job at managing their teams and these guys deserves all the praise. But to me, Kerr is still a candidate regardless of how many games he couldn't attend.

Return to Player Comparisons