2016 Draft

[NavLDO]

Interesting article as I am 100% against drafting bender with the 3rd pick. It's such a gamble that he never even has an impact as just a role player and at the 3rd pick that would set us back pretty far if we are trying to build through the draft. We miss on him here and the rebuild is set back 2-3 years. If we are 3rd I really want no part of that pick unless it's Dunn and we trade Knight.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

Yea, think I am pretty much in this camp. Problem is, Knight is untradeable, so I guess we better be ready to trade back.

I think Knight is tradeable but not for the price McD will be wanting. If we are 3rd the best thing to do in my opinion is trade down and accumulate a 1st rounder a year or 2 down the road.

I feel, if we miss out on Ingram, then trading back might not be a bad idea. Simmons worries me for a guy taken in the top 2. He measured just an 8'7" reach last year, and somehow, later in the year, measured 5" longer??? As a comparison, Booker measured 8' 6.5" reach. I'll be interested to see what he measures at the combine, but to me, Simmons is just a rich man's Kieff.

Bender would be a decent gamble at pick 7 or later, but at 3? Yeah, he's awfully raw. I think this draft has a lot of "late-lotto" prospects; maybe 10-12 guys that in other drafts would be a decent pick at 10 to 14, but outside of Ingram and Dunn, to me, there's not much else in top 5 talent. Simmons just scares me with his 'work ethic' and just average physical profile. I think last year, he would go outside of the top 5. I'm far from an expert in the draft prospect arena, but that's the feel I get with this year's class, and think if we don't grab Dunn or Ingram, just trade back to late lotto and pick up a pick in a later draft, and maybe get Knight off in that trade as well, especially if Dunn is somehow the pick...or Jackson/Murray.

[saintEscaton]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

Kind of the same reasoning I'm interested in Thomas Bryant from Indiana. He's a F/C at 6'10.5", but also an 'ungodly' wingspan of 7'5.5" and standing reach of 9'4". He's shot 69% from the field, and 36% from 3 (albeit extremely sparsely), but the fact that he's even taken those shots leads me to believe he has some versatility. Additionally, he's a hustler, and at 241 lbs, that's pretty impressive, and something that can't be taught; either you have the go-gettive-ness and motor, or you don't, and he has it. Just watch some of his highlights from time hack 1:12 to about 2:00 and from 6:50 on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDTpS3Pnzo

Oh, and he turns just 19 on 31 July. If he's still on the board at 27, we should strongly consider taking him, depending on what we've already done in the lotto. If we take a euro-stash in the late lotto, then definitely, Bryant should be on McD's radar, IMO.

Yup I like him better than Stone/Poetl (maybe thats just the Hoosier homer speaking) and he would be a better value but I think he goes in between our Wiz and Cavs pick, late teens/early twenties at the latest. Also for Eurostash bigs we should target the Croat centers Zizic/Zubac and Juancho

[Damkac]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

Would love to get him with Was pick. Player with elite defensive potential is what the Suns needs.

Here is article about Bender. It's interesting what the poster said. If Bender still grows he may end up with similar height as Porzingis.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/young-croatian-ready-shot-nba-fame-091401442--nba.html

Just a digression. Bender's not 213cm, Bender is 215cm (7 ft. 0,5') tall, barefoot. He grew 2 cm's in a year, those are last year's info.

[bwgood77]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

Would love to get him with Was pick. Player with elite defensive potential is what the Suns needs.

Here is article about Bender. It's interesting what the poster said. If Bender still grows he may end up with similar height as Porzingis.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/young-croatian-ready-shot-nba-fame-091401442--nba.html

Just a digression. Bender's not 213cm, Bender is 215cm (7 ft. 0,5') tall, barefoot. He grew 2 cm's in a year, those are last year's info.

Yeah, that read on og anunoby makes me suddenly like him with the Washington pick. That shot blocking ability combined with being able to hit the 3 is lovely.

[saintEscaton]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

Would love to get him with Was pick. Player with elite defensive potential is what the Suns needs.

Here is article about Bender. It's interesting what the poster said. If Bender still grows he may end up with similar height as Porzingis.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/young-croatian-ready-shot-nba-fame-091401442--nba.html

Just a digression. Bender's not 213cm, Bender is 215cm (7 ft. 0,5') tall, barefoot. He grew 2 cm's in a year, those are last year's info.

Bender doesn't quite have the length but his standing reach is already talller than KP's by 2 inches (9'3) but doesn't really play like he possesses much explosive verticality, isn't much of a leaper . Has a hard time changing directions/ shifting gears through traffic, almost no awareness operating in the key. He is another mechanical jack of all trades, master of none faceup big like Len except he has some feel for the game and his strength are ballhandling/playmaking in the fast break rather than rebounding/interior D

[saintEscaton]

Villanova steamrollng Oklahoma right now up by 28 points, had a hunch they would go all the way. Shooting a blistering 72% from the field thus far. Buddy is choking on the biggest stage of his college career

[Damkac]

Let's draft Bender, Zubac and Zizic. Uniting brothers strategy didn't worked let's try uniting nationals

[bwgood77]

1. Simmons is my clear number 1 choice. He has so much natural ability that he could probably half ass it and still be an allstar. He could start at the 4 for us next year and be a great point forward. With him and Booker, our future would be bright.

2. Ingram is my clear number 2 choice. I'm not sure he'll be better then Wiggins or even TJ Warren, but he has potential. If Simmons is gone, we should take him and be happy. He and TJ can compete for our 3 of the future.

From here down, I'm not sold. Matter of fact, if we miss out on Simmons or Ingram and are picking 3/4/5, I'd trade this pick + assets for a proven NBA star. Griffin, Cousins, Love, etc. I'd rather cash in now, get an allstar in return, and then go into free agency with our guns loaded selling any potential targets on a Bledsoe/Booker/allstar + them future.

I will respond to this here since I wanted discussion about draft more to be in this thread, and just to see people's big boards in the other one, but I agree.

Someone asked in that trade forum thread if they thought we would trade the #3 pick (actually and the second lotto pick too) for Love and I thought it would probably be worth it. I mean there is so much risk after the top two that you'd be happy if one of those picks ever turned into a player the caliber of Love. I don't think the other guys get traded yet (unless the Clips and Cavs trade Griffin/Love straight up), and I think if any are traded it probably wouldn't be for draft picks but for different competitive pieces, so a 3rd team would have to be involved in such a deal.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Hield having a bad game isn't the worst thing for whoever picks him. His narrative was getting out of control and now he's likely to still be available in our worst case draft pick scenario @ 4 to 6. His query is whether he can keep hitting tough shots against NBA opposition, that's really what seperates Curry from Knight.

With Bender, it comes back to the prototype of the international mobile / scoring 7 footer - Porzingis, Nowitzki, Gasol, Bargnani, Jianlian. They were all make or break by their ability to score 2 point shots with complex skills. Right now I see Bender is high risk because he has the minimum moves inside the arc, that may and will need to develop for him to be even 15 / 7 PF.

I'm probably leaning back towards popular convention of the top 2, but think it could get really interesting if we get to workout Simmons and Ingram because McDonough likes to stress test them to see their work ethic, and both have question marks, I don't think we will draft someone that high that has Bennett or Milicic type question marks in that area.

Murray keeps rounding out my group of potentials for our 1st pick, as he fits McDonough's type, is probably a safe bet for a pick 4-6 because he plays very mature already and could is fitting the Booker narrative too of being used as a spot up shooter, but with more ball handling could take the next step.

[saintEscaton]

I wouldn't even entertain touching Hield/Murray personally. They aren't special enough to warrant the selection as "bpa"/accomodation into a logjammed backcourt where they would be redundant one-dimensional gunners who are liabilities on the other end getting burnt as undersized 2s

[Mulhollanddrive]

I know they are both seen as lower ceiling because their elite college skills may struggle against NBA opposition. But I also see Lillard, McCollum, Thompson having had those same queries.

In this draft after Simmons, Ingram, Bender (as high ceiling / athletic / skilled players) it's a matter of what deficiency do you most prefer. With Hield and Murray (athleticism for guards), Dunn, Brown (skills), Poetl, Ellenson, Sabonis (athleticism for bigs).

I think recent history has shown unathletic guards are the better chance of hitting, because if they have an elite outside shot and craft, they can still play at a very high level - I can't find a better guard taken before Booker, Lillard, McCollum or Thompson in the past 6 years.

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't even entertain touching Hield/Murray personally. They aren't special enough to warrant the selection as "bpa"/accomodation into a logjammed backcourt where they would be redundant one-dimensional gunners who are liabilities on the other end getting burnt off the ball as undersized 2s

I agree and that makes it terribly tough to make my personal big board. While I'm not completely enamored with Bender, if I miss out on top two I would shop that pick HARD to move down 4-8 spots or even for a pick next year or a player that can help now, but I would almost rather take a guy like your Indy guy or Chriss or Deyonta Davis. I always think BPA but our team is SO heavily log jammed in one area and a huge hole in another and I don't think there is a ton of separation between the 3-14 prospects.

The one guard I would consider taking if we keep our pick and it is not top two is Dunn because we don't really have a secondary true pg.

Another person rarely mentioned who has some talent is John Jenkins. I think there is a good chance we exercise our team option on him and keep him. He's got game. We don't need to draft another combo or shooting guard. Not with all these guys and Bogdan.

[JMac1]

I wouldn't even entertain touching Hield/Murray personally. They aren't special enough to warrant the selection as "bpa"/accomodation into a logjammed backcourt where they would be redundant one-dimensional gunners who are liabilities on the other end getting burnt as undersized 2s

That's true, so that makes Dunn a better option.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'm the opposite, unless a guard is unpassable due to their athleticism (Westbrook, who had terrible college numbers), I take the skilled guard.

The leap to me is bigger for Kris Dunn or Jaylen Brown to improve their ball handling and shooting skills, than the leap of Murray or Hield maintaining their abilty to keep shooting in the NBA.

[AtheJ415]

I wouldn't even entertain touching Hield/Murray personally. They aren't special enough to warrant the selection as "bpa"/accomodation into a logjammed backcourt where they would be redundant one-dimensional gunners who are liabilities on the other end getting burnt as undersized 2s

That's true, so that makes Dunn a better option.

Yup, and also with Dunn he can always play with Booker. That's a big deal I think some are missing. There should be no question if the choice is Dunn, Hield, or Murray, we should take Dunn.

[saintEscaton]

Dunn is easily the most athletic PG prospect since Wall, just a notch below him in that department. Doesn't quite have that top gear/ end to end speed but has an electriying first step and is shifty in his own right and has proven capable of nailing stepbacks and pull up Js, although he can stand to improve. Plus he has the ability to guard 3 positions and can thread the needle with precision, something Bledose can't. Ball security is an issue, sometimes he tries to force the issue and do too much leading to careless turnovers. He is the closest thing to a floor general in ths draft who can control the pace and initiate an offense, he's ball dominant but not a possession ender

[bwgood77]

Dunn is easily the most athletic PG prospect since Wall, just a notch below him in that department. Doesn't quite have that top gear/ end to end speed but has an electriying first step and is shifty in his own right and has proven capable of nailing stepbacks and pull up Js, although he can stand to improve. Plus he has the ability to guard 3 positions and can thread the needle with precision, something Bledose can't. Ball security is an issue, sometimes he tries to force the issue and do too much leading to careless turnovers. He is the closest thing to a floor general in ths draft who can control the pace and initiate an offense, he's ball dominant but not a possession ender

As I mentioned before, Dunn is 4th for me, but the ball dominant, forcing issues leading to turnovers, etc is not something that makes me feel good.

And Wall came out after one year and Bledsoe as his backup. If Dunn was such a premier prospect athletically, why does he wait? He certainly wasn't highly ranked two years ago.

I still have him ranked where I do because I think he has what you say he has, but that is the same reason I try and trade down or for a future pick/current player, if we end up in a position where he is the best option, because it just doesn't seem to be a wise use of resources (not that our management utilizes resources wisely).

[saintEscaton]

Dunn is easily the most athletic PG prospect since Wall, just a notch below him in that department. Doesn't quite have that top gear/ end to end speed but has an electriying first step and is shifty in his own right and has proven capable of nailing stepbacks and pull up Js, although he can stand to improve. Plus he has the ability to guard 3 positions and can thread the needle with precision, something Bledose can't. Ball security is an issue, sometimes he tries to force the issue and do too much leading to careless turnovers. He is the closest thing to a floor general in ths draft who can control the pace and initiate an offense, he's ball dominant but not a possession ender

As I mentioned before, Dunn is 4th for me, but the ball dominant, forcing issues leading to turnovers, etc is not something that makes me feel good.

And Wall came out after one year and Bledsoe as his backup. If Dunn was such a premier prospect athletically, why does he wait? He certainly wasn't highly ranked two years ago.

I still have him ranked where I do because I think he has what you say he has, but that is the same reason I try and trade down or for a future pick/current player, if we end up in a position where he is the best option, because it just doesn't seem to be a wise use of resources (not that our management utilizes resources wisely).

Dunn has an injury history which is concerning. Had to medically redshirt as a sophomore, recovering from a torn labrum his first two years so he stayed as a junior to show that he can be healthy. Also God Shammgod is his mentor, thats pretty cool

[Mulhollanddrive]

Is the OG Anunoby hype real, could he come into contention for Washington pick?

[NavLDO]

Each player is different. We have had a good example with Booker this season.

Everyone (included me) thought that Booker was at least one year away to contribute on our roster. He has been amazing since the beginning of the season.

Bender can be like Booker or Porzingis in that regard, we don't know.

We might still be saying that about Booker had Bledsoe and Knight not been injured. I think teams wait too long to develop their young talent.

I think a lot of that was Jeff. Booker showed something in literally game 1 and then sat for weeks.

Why is it a given Bender couldn't play year 1? His league is very competitive, and some guys like Deandre don't even start on bad college teams and then play well in the NBA. I don't think Bender will barely play. Not with where this team is. If they go out and do something crazy like sign Horford then sure, but a guy like Tele shouldn't prevent him from playing. I mean we have a mammoth hole at the 4 and backup 5 he could fil to play decent minutes right off the bat imo.

Agreed. He's also played NCAA-level, or at least above high-school level, basketball for what, 3 years now??

Started to see some minutes in the Croatian league as a professional at age 15. Played in the Jordan Brand Classic international game in 2013. May join Croatian legend Nikola Vujcic at Maccabi Tel Aviv next season. Could go many ways with his development long term, as he's so incredibly young still.

He's not fully matured into his body; he's still growing, but outside of that, from everything I've read, he's very intelligent--high BBIQ--has great length, and again, has more/better/higher-level playing experience than typical high-school seniors.

I'm not saying he should be our pick, but if he is, I do not see any reason, barring injury, that he couldn't play 15-20 minutes a game next season. But that's for the coach to decide, of course, so as fans, I really don't think we can say with any confidence either way, whether he'll be ready to give meaningful minutes his rookie year, and it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility.

So to say he's, as I've seen at least once on these forums, that he's '2 years away from being 2 years away from playing' is a bit of hyperbole. While he may be 1-2 years away from starting, he's certainly not 4 years away from contributing. That said, he is certainly an unknown, but the fact that he grasps the game as well as he supposedly does from what I've read, tells me that he likely has a relatively high floor. A guy with his length and BBIQ will find a niche, be it an uber long SG/SF, or a Center that will need to eat him some protein for a year, but in my mind (and his, as well, per interview), he's a stretch-4. He's able to defend smaller, and supposedly quicker, opponents, so maybe he get's some burn at the 3. Imagine this bench line-up:

Goodwin (6' 5.5" , 6' 9.5" Wingspan)
Bogdanovic (6' 6.5" , 6' 11.5" Wingspan)
(Pick 3) Bender (7' 1" , 7' 3" Wingspan)
Len (7' 1" , 7' 3.5" Wingspan)
(Pick 27) Thomas Bryant (6' 10.5" , 7' 5.5" Wingspan)

...that's 4 of 5 players with 7'-ish Wingspans (and the PG with almost a 6' 10" wingspan), following this relatively midge starting lineup...

Bledsoe (6' 1.5")
Knight (6' 3")
Tucker (6' 5.5")
Warren (6' 8")
Chandler (7')

Of course, 10 man rotations are rare, as far as I'm familiar, and TJ doesn't play the 4 very often, so yes, this is an unlikely rotation, but was fun to put together. And no, I didn't forget Booker, but Knight is 3" shorter, so I used him instead, for the purpose to show the extreme difference.

Anyway, got off track, there, but point being, Bender, IMO, shouldn't be thought of as any different than any other College Freshman entering the draft; in fact, I'd say he has a bit of a leg-up on other 18/19 YOs, from an experience standpoint.