The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[sunshoopjunky]

CHI: Butler/Portis
PHX: 2016 #3/2016 #13/2016 #29/Knight/Goodwin

Do you mean the above trade? That is too much. No way that we offer the #3 pick.

No, I would not trade the 2016 #13 (morris pick). I like that pick for Skal or Sabonis depending on what we do with the 2016 #13. I had not really thought about using the 2016 #29 much either as I would rather stash Zizic with that pick unless someone falls.

I was thinking more 2016 #3 only

CHI: Butler/Portis
PHX: 2016 #3/Knight/Goodwin

Bulls would hang up. Add in #29.

I think that would be fair depending on the scenarios that play out.

I really would like to know what pick we have in 2016 and what doors may be open because of it. That pick has value that varies depending on the scenario.

But

CHI: Butler/Portis
PHX: 2016 #3/Knight/Goodwin. 2016 #29

would better shape then we are now.

[sunshoopjunky]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jlto9nw

Who says no?

We are not the right team for Love.

[sunshoopjunky]

no more kneejerk lateral moves to keep the ship afloat plz

+∞

Our best success was when we did play guys out of position.

our best has not got us a ring.

I keep seeing people suggest we trade for Butler. Why? He isn't a SF and neither is Booker. Have we not learned our lesson of forcing guys to play out of position?

I think its the recent press on availability and his 2 way play. I was worried about him playing the 3 but most of the research I see says he is fine with both. I was also worried about his health and age but Bledsoe is 26 so? I think if you go after Butler it is to make him the player with the ball at the end of the game. Is it the right time to have a player like that and a SF on our team. I am not sure our identity could survive that now. Maybe in 2 years but then he is 28. I I am not sold on him yet. But if we could get Portis included somehow now that gives us some flexibility in the draft.

I think that we have to extend Len’s contract this summer not matter what.

Look, he is not a great player, but he is a decent young player who is not a headcase and he wants to play for us. That's important because we are not a FA market. He can improve the next few years ( we need to remember that he is not even 23 years old) he is solid enough to be a good two-way C like Robin Lopez or Jonas Valanciunas with a little more experience.

I am OK with the idea of give him a $50M / 4 years contract. In the current market he values that money easily.

I agree big men take time. I still dont think we know what we have with him yet. Maybe we get a bargain.

[lilfishi22]

Regarding Tyson Chandler, I don't care if he is traded or not this summer. He can be our backup C next season because we are not going to spend a lot of money, so his salary wouldn't be a problem.

I'd rather move him just because he would be easier to trade now rather than later. My fear is that the longer we hang onto him, the risk of him becoming untradeable at some point in the next few seasons stays with us and stays our problem. I really don't know how much he's value he's added in terms of leadership, big men development and mentoring our young guys.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Can't see us moving Chandler unless he does a Dragic / Morris.

McD loves him and doesn't see enough experience & leadership in the team to win 45 games. I still believe we will try contend for playoffs while drafting as we have done in the past.

[Puff]

Our best success was when we did play guys out of position.

Playing Amare at the 5 and Marion at the 4 worked extremely well on most nights. It is about getting your best players on the court.

I really see Booker at the 3 in the future. I think he will be fantastic and I wanted him to play there this season prior to Bledsoe going down. Certain match ups will be a problem. That is why you are allowed to carry 15 players.

I wish Warren could rebound and play better defense. I would like to see him at the 4. Draft one of those long armed physical freaks to rebound and play defense and lets run teams out of the gym.

We're quibbling over the difference between a SG and SF now?

My take is that players want to play the position they feel comfortable in and are best suited for. Do you not recall how much Marion bitched daily about having to guard opposing PFs? Or that Amare would routinely state that he was a PF and not a C? That Dragic complained because he wasn't being used correctly all the time during his last season with us. This is the type of thinking that's going to get us Bledsoe-Knight-Booker line-ups next year and it is going to be garbage. It's one thing if you have a versatile guy like Draymond Green or Marion. It's quite another thing to bring in Butler and tell him he's now a SF. And the best thing about Green is that he knows he's versatile, that was one of his strengths that got him drafted. It's completely different than what you're talking about doing with Booker & Butler or what the team is currently doing with Knight & Bledsoe or Len & Chandler.

Booker isn't a SF either and Warren will never be a PF. He can't even guard physical SFs right now. This square peg in a round hole attitude has got to stop.

While some of those are valid points, they don't address the SF/SG 'issue.' Yes, there becomes some issues in some cases when playing 1s at the 2 and 5s at the 4. But a true SG almost never has an issue at SF. Those 2 positions have always been the 2 most interchangeable spots on the Court, even before the small ball revolution. Are you suggesting that Butler cant/doesn't guard the Kawhi Leonards, LeBron James of the world? Cause that's just inaccurate. Or is there some other measure of being a "SF" that I don't know about?

Dremil

I totally agree with your takes. I think the new NBA coach is generally playing his best 5 players as much as possible no mater of position. I see the SG and SF position interchangeable as well. My idea of playing Booker at the three is due to him being one of our 5 best players. If we are able to obtain a better SF, one that is bigger and better than him, then start that player. I just can no longer watch this team with Tucker on the court and Booker on the bench or for that matter Warren on the court and Booker on the bench. Unless we somehow trade either or both of Bledsoe and Booker the only way for Booker to get on the court next season is at the three. I hope the new coach will see it the same way.

If we are serious about shoring up the SF position going forward Jaylen Brown seems to have the body and length that would be ideal. Unfortunately he could be a bust and at the very least a couple of years away from productivity. If somehow we are able to Butler he would be on the court one way of another probably at the three.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns just need to get better talent. The team has not had any elite players for years. The last time they had an elite player was Nash and he was in the twilight of his career during that time.

[Damkac]

If Bledsoe or Knight isn't traded then Suns should start Bledsoe and Booker with Knight of the bench. That looks like the perfect roles for all of them. Booker may play few minutes a game at sf but his primary position should be sg. Ideally we get athletic defensive freak with 7"+ wingspan to start at sf.

[Years90Suns]

Now that Thon Maker has the intention of declaring for the draft, I wonder whether we could use our theorical #3 on him.
Bedides Ingram and Simmons, no other player seems to be a potential star and Maker is another PF that could become a disaster os a star.
If we were a different franchise, then I would be sure he could be our man. But us being the Suns, with this easiness to make players worse, I do not know what to say.

[Puff]

The Suns just need to get better talent. The team has not had any elite players for years. The last time they had an elite player was Nash and he was in the twilight of his career during that time.

Nash was probably the best but Amare and the Matrix were pretty good as well. I also think we all underrated what Boris brought to the party. He is still alive and well in San Antonio.

If that team would have had a player like Booker at the 2 and a younger Chandler coming off the bench they could have been real special.

The current team actually may have better role players but as you have stated we have no stars. We need to get a couple sooner than later.

However if our plan is to not play them, why bother.

What really is the point of playing Ronnie Price?

Why didn't we trade Tucker?

We just wasted the playing time that they were given, for what?

Wow, we are a freaking mess.

The good thing is that with just a couple of key player moves things can change for the better quickly. I hope it happens this summer.

[Damkac]

Now that Thon Maker has the intention of declaring for the draft, I wonder whether we could use our theorical #3 on him.
Bedides Ingram and Simmons, no other player seems to be a potential star and Maker is another PF that could become a disaster os a star.
If we were a different franchise, then I would be sure he could be our man. But us being the Suns, with this easiness to make players worse, I do not know what to say.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PREYPhruOCA[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60BdrbtEBPg[/youtube]

[Saberestar]

Now that Thon Maker has the intention of declaring for the draft, I wonder whether we could use our theorical #3 on him.
Bedides Ingram and Simmons, no other player seems to be a potential star and Maker is another PF that could become a disaster os a star.
If we were a different franchise, then I would be sure he could be our man. But us being the Suns, with this easiness to make players worse, I do not know what to say.

In my opinion #3 is too high for him. He has a ton of bust potential, I would select him with our Cavs pick at #28.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Sabonis is my guy in this draft.

Assuming we got the #1 or #2, think New Orleans would do Knight + #12 for #6? I think they might pass in order to take Jamal Murray. But they need pieces, and they need to compete sooner rather than later. I imagine they'd be tempted. Would only happen if we wanted someone in that range in a bad way.

Bledsoe/Archie
Booker/Bogdanovic
Warren/[Ingram]
[Simmons]/Sabonis
Chandler/Len

Now that is a foundation.

[bwgood77]

Sabonis is my guy in this draft.

Assuming we got the #1 or #2, think New Orleans would do Knight + #12 for #6? I think they might pass in order to take Jamal Murray. But they need pieces, and they need to compete sooner rather than later. I imagine they'd be tempted. Would only happen if we wanted someone in that range in a bad way.

Bledsoe/Archie
Booker/Bogdanovic
Warren/[Ingram]
[Simmons]/Sabonis
Chandler/Len

Now that is a foundation.

Is that just mostly to dump Knight? Because we should be able to get Sabonis at 12 or 13.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Sabonis is my guy in this draft.

Assuming we got the #1 or #2, think New Orleans would do Knight + #12 for #6? I think they might pass in order to take Jamal Murray. But they need pieces, and they need to compete sooner rather than later. I imagine they'd be tempted. Would only happen if we wanted someone in that range in a bad way.

Bledsoe/Archie
Booker/Bogdanovic
Warren/[Ingram]
[Simmons]/Sabonis
Chandler/Len

Now that is a foundation.

Is that just mostly to dump Knight? Because we should be able to get Sabonis at 12 or 13.

I do hope you're right. I just happen to think he'll go in the top 10.

[bwgood77]

Sabonis is my guy in this draft.

Assuming we got the #1 or #2, think New Orleans would do Knight + #12 for #6? I think they might pass in order to take Jamal Murray. But they need pieces, and they need to compete sooner rather than later. I imagine they'd be tempted. Would only happen if we wanted someone in that range in a bad way.

Bledsoe/Archie
Booker/Bogdanovic
Warren/[Ingram]
[Simmons]/Sabonis
Chandler/Len

Now that is a foundation.

Is that just mostly to dump Knight? Because we should be able to get Sabonis at 12 or 13.

I do hope you're right. I just happen to think he'll go in the top 10.

I'd be a little surprised if McD took him, even at 13. Not sure why. But if he thinks he needs to win now to keep his job, he will likely make safer picks (and he would be one) even if their upside might be more limited.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Is that just mostly to dump Knight? Because we should be able to get Sabonis at 12 or 13.

I do hope you're right. I just happen to think he'll go in the top 10.

I'd be a little surprised if McD took him, even at 13. Not sure why. But if he thinks he needs to win now to keep his job, he will likely make safer picks (and he would be one) even if their upside might be more limited.

I don't think Sabonis has limited upside. You can't teach athleticism, but you also can't really teach tenacity, smarts and toughness. People tend to forget that. Dude's just a sophomore. Has the makings of an elite rebounder. Don't understand why he's projected so low in many mocks.

I also think that it's not just about taking a "safe" pick. It also has to do with the timeline of this core. Len will hit RFA in a year, and the clock starts. TJ the following year. Booker's about ready for prime time. This is likely the last year we'll have a high pick, so this is likely to be the foundation of this Suns era. Getting a guy who's ready to play now (so you'll get 8 years of valuable production out of him, rather than 6 (as with Warren and Len)) makes sense. If we want to add one more piece via free agency, we have to be good next year, before the cap spikes and before our rookie extensions start eating up our cap space.

I think McD takes one of Sabonis or Bender. Probably not both.

[bwgood77]

I do hope you're right. I just happen to think he'll go in the top 10.

I'd be a little surprised if McD took him, even at 13. Not sure why. But if he thinks he needs to win now to keep his job, he will likely make safer picks (and he would be one) even if their upside might be more limited.

I don't think Sabonis has limited upside. You can't teach athleticism, but you also can't really teach tenacity, smarts and toughness. People tend to forget that. Dude's just a sophomore. Has the makings of an elite rebounder. Don't understand why he's projected so low in many mocks.

I also think that it's not just about taking a "safe" pick. It also has to do with the timeline of this core. Len will hit RFA in a year, and the clock starts. TJ the following year. Booker's about ready for prime time. This is likely the last year we'll have a high pick, so this is likely to be the foundation of this Suns era. Getting a guy who's ready to play now (so you'll get 8 years of valuable production out of him, rather than 6 (as with Warren and Len)) makes sense. If we want to add one more piece via free agency, we have to be good next year, before the cap spikes and before our rookie extensions start eating up our cap space.

I think McD takes one of Sabonis or Bender. Probably not both.

I think they'd make an ideal pairing. One is raw and might take a while and has shot blocking capability and a 3 (though Sabonis shot 35.7% on extremely low volume), and the other one has high iq and more ready to play now. Also, Bender could likely play the 5 eventually and they would make a decent pairing due to different strengths. Bender would probably be ready to take on more of full role (if he isn't a bust) when Chandler's contract is up. Plus, Len certainly doesn't seem to be getting any better except at rebounding.

Basically Sabonis is nice insurance for Bender, whereas many of the other PF's (Skal, Chriss, maybe Davis) might not be. Ideally I wouldn't mind trading down either, but probably to get something extra and take Chriss and Sabonis. I also like Davis though.

[SideSwipe]

The Suns just need to get better talent. The team has not had any elite players for years. The last time they had an elite player was Nash and he was in the twilight of his career during that time.

Nash was probably the best but Amare and the Matrix were pretty good as well. I also think we all underrated what Boris brought to the party. He is still alive and well in San Antonio.

If that team would have had a player like Booker at the 2 and a younger Chandler coming off the bench they could have been real special.

The current team actually may have better role players but as you have stated we have no stars. We need to get a couple sooner than later.

However if our plan is to not play them, why bother.

What really is the point of playing Ronnie Price?

Why didn't we trade Tucker?

We just wasted the playing time that they were given, for what?

Wow, we are a freaking mess.

The good thing is that with just a couple of key player moves things can change for the better quickly. I hope it happens this summer.

Not moving Price, Tucker, Chandler or Tele at the line was an indication to me that the FO is going to be opportunistic at exploring big trades/ FA moves this summer with an eye towards pushing to a contender. Each of those players has limitations, but they are perfect role players on a good, playoff team. I am absolutely not convinced we are rebuilding at all. Add two alpha-male scorers to that team, and we are back in the mix. Most are very likely not happening but adding any two Butler, Melo, KD, George, Horford... A Knight/#3/Goodwin can net a good player; Warren/Len/#12/#29 package can net another player- maybe in a S&T, and depending on how that came out there could still be as much as $25 million to spend in FA. Pushing one of the more realistic scenarios it could lead to something like this.

Purchase an early #2 (Melo Trimble) for up to $3million

Bledsoe/ Price (re-up at $2-$4)/ Trimble (#39)
Booker/ FA (Bud at min)/ Jenkins
Melo (trade for pack #1)/ Tucker/ FA
Horford (S&T for pack #2)/ Tele (re-up at $8-10)/ Williams
Chandler/ FA/ Zicic(#33)

Great scoring potential, decent defensive potential with a balance of young, mid-career and experienced vets, and a pretty solid bench of good role players. My examples could be overpay or underpay for those deals, but this is really just to show what could be out there for the Suns if things fall into place.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns just need to get better talent. The team has not had any elite players for years. The last time they had an elite player was Nash and he was in the twilight of his career during that time.

Nash was probably the best but Amare and the Matrix were pretty good as well. I also think we all underrated what Boris brought to the party. He is still alive and well in San Antonio.

If that team would have had a player like Booker at the 2 and a younger Chandler coming off the bench they could have been real special.

The current team actually may have better role players but as you have stated we have no stars. We need to get a couple sooner than later.

However if our plan is to not play them, why bother.

What really is the point of playing Ronnie Price?

Why didn't we trade Tucker?

We just wasted the playing time that they were given, for what?

Wow, we are a freaking mess.

The good thing is that with just a couple of key player moves things can change for the better quickly. I hope it happens this summer.

Not moving Price, Tucker, Chandler or Tele at the line was an indication to me that the FO is going to be opportunistic at exploring big trades/ FA moves this summer with an eye towards pushing to a contender. Each of those players has limitations, but they are perfect role players on a good, playoff team. I am absolutely not convinced we are rebuilding at all. Add two alpha-male scorers to that team, and we are back in the mix. Most are very likely not happening but adding any two Butler, Melo, KD, George, Horford... A Knight/#3/Goodwin can net a good player; Warren/Len/#12/#29 package can net another player- maybe in a S&T, and depending on how that came out there could still be as much as $25 million to spend in FA. Pushing one of the more realistic scenarios it could lead to something like this.

Purchase an early #2 (Melo Trimble) for up to $3million

Bledsoe/ Price (re-up at $2-$4)/ Trimble (#39)
Booker/ FA (Bud at min)/ Jenkins
Melo (trade for pack #1)/ Tucker/ FA
Horford (S&T for pack #2)/ Tele (re-up at $8-10)/ Williams
Chandler/ FA/ Zicic(#33)

Great scoring potential, decent defensive potential with a balance of young, mid-career and experienced vets, and a pretty solid bench of good role players. My examples could be overpay or underpay for those deals, but this is really just to show what could be out there for the Suns if things fall into place.

I like your idea of trading for a star and then hoping to sign a star but I think that specific team you suggested would struggle to make the playoffs as an 8 seed. Carmelo is so far past his prime and has injury problems. Horford is terribly overrated. Look at his stats this year. He is averaging only 15 and 7 in his contract year which is when players usually try to play out of their minds for a new contract. That is not a good sign. Plus Horford is undersized. Alex Len gave him major problems when the Suns played the Hawks in Phoenix earlier this year and won on Goodwin's buzzer beating three pointer.

If the Suns are trading their picks this year, they need to target MVP caliber players exclusively and Carmelo, Horford, or even Kevin Love ain't it .