Kyrie Irving would rather play somewhere else

[ATLHawksfan21]

Al Horford's play results in more wins for his team than Kyrie's does. That's really all that matters. 1,000 excuses for Kyrie won't change that until he figures out how to become a better leader and how to play defense (if he's even capable of doing so.) Add in the fact that he is extremely injury prone and he is nowhere close to being a franchise player.

Has Horford been to the Finals?

thanks.

Teague may not be the best defender but you won't see him run away from defending his man on the last play like Kyrie did when Teague hit the gamewinner. How can you be a franchise player when you aren't willing to lead by example?

Gamewinner?

CLEVELAND 110-HAWKS 108.

When will you start acknowledging some of these severe weaknesses that I have pointed out?

hes bad at Defense, so was THJ? Defense can be taught. I dont think that being bad at defense automatically disqualifies you from being an elite player. especially PGs.

There is a 5 page thread on the gen board right now which suggests that the Cavs would be better off with Delly starting. There were mixed feelings when it was Irving and Waiters in Cleveland and some fans wanted Irving out and to keep Waiters when Waiters is a complete mess. These things wouldn't be happening if Kyrie were as good as you wished he was.

And people are idiots? Newsflash? Delly? Really?

Refer to post 79 for the Teague gamewinner.

Exactly Delly, really. A slow role player has been far more productive for the Cavs this season than superstar elite all-world Irving. Look at the splits for the different lineups and the starting unit clearly performs better with Delladova at PG over Irving.

"These are the cavs best trios this year

James, Love, Shumpert: plus-22
James, Dellavedova, Love: plus-20.5
James, Love, Thompson: plus-19.3
James, Dellavedova, Shumpert: plus-19.2
James, Dellavedova, Thompson: plus-17.6
Dellavedova, Love, Thompson: plus-16.5
James, Dellavedova, J.R. Smith: plus-15.6"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2016/lineups/

[PandaKidd]

You made your point I made mine.

Let's hug it out and watch this elite talented Hawks team lose to the sun's.



FYI I don't care what analytics say, Kyrie is a better player than teague, no question , ever.

People arguing for delevedova over KI are fools

[atlantabbq99]

I think the casual fan thinks that Kyrie is an elite player, but his defense is way too much of a negative for him and he allows his opponenets to have big games on him on a consistent basis, that its just not worth it. On top of that, Kyrie's health problems are a huge concern. I don't think casual fans knows that he has had knee and ligament problems since high school and college and missed alot of time his one year in college. In addition Kyrie also already gotten the bad reputation in the locker room of being a 'me' player, not passing the ball, and no being a point guard, or basically being the James Harden version of a PG. Kyrie can dribble and can shoot but just has way too many negatives and is just a fake star at this point.

[ATLHawksfan21]

You made your point I made mine.

Let's hug it out and watch this elite talented Hawks team lose to the sun's.



FYI I don't care what analytics say, Kyrie is a better player than teague, no question , ever.

People arguing for delevedova over KI are fools

Solid prediction there mate

[ATLHawksfan21]

I think the casual fan thinks that Kyrie is an elite player, but his defense is way too much of a negative for him and he allows his opponenets to have big games on him on a consistent basis, that its just not worth it. On top of that, Kyrie's health problems are a huge concern. I don't think casual fans knows that he has had knee and ligament problems since high school and college and missed alot of time his one year in college. In addition Kyrie also already gotten the bad reputation in the locker room of being a 'me' player, not passing the ball, and no being a point guard, or basically being the James Harden version of a PG. Kyrie can dribble and can shoot but just has way too many negatives and is just a fake star at this point.

Exactly. Kyrie is a less talented, undersized and far more injury prone version of James Har_en.

Lou Williams with fancier handles.

[PandaKidd]

lol you guys are ****. The CASUAL FAN , the old YOU DONT WATCH GAMES AND IM BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE IM HARDCORE HAWKS MAN. Fake star? You guys are delusional.

laughable.

[PandaKidd]

I think the casual fan thinks that Kyrie is an elite player, but his defense is way too much of a negative for him and he allows his opponenets to have big games on him on a consistent basis, that its just not worth it. On top of that, Kyrie's health problems are a huge concern. I don't think casual fans knows that he has had knee and ligament problems since high school and college and missed alot of time his one year in college. In addition Kyrie also already gotten the bad reputation in the locker room of being a 'me' player, not passing the ball, and no being a point guard, or basically being the James Harden version of a PG. Kyrie can dribble and can shoot but just has way too many negatives and is just a fake star at this point.

Lou Williams with fancier handles.

this is an all time bone head comment bro, and i respect your opinion as much as i disagree with it. You guys basically are taking 1 year coming off major knee surgery and using that 1 year WHICH IS HISTORICALLY FACTUALLY BAD FOR ALL PLAYERS POST OP and applying that to his career.

Youre taking the best Jeff Teague games and comparing it to the worst KI games. Its just dumb.

Go watch that 57 point game that was LAST YEAR. Teague could NEVER do that against Kawahi? Parker? Spurs bigs?

HELL Teague cant even get off a shot with 5 seconds on the clock

[atlantabbq99]

I think the casual fan thinks that Kyrie is an elite player, but his defense is way too much of a negative for him and he allows his opponenets to have big games on him on a consistent basis, that its just not worth it. On top of that, Kyrie's health problems are a huge concern. I don't think casual fans knows that he has had knee and ligament problems since high school and college and missed alot of time his one year in college. In addition Kyrie also already gotten the bad reputation in the locker room of being a 'me' player, not passing the ball, and no being a point guard, or basically being the James Harden version of a PG. Kyrie can dribble and can shoot but just has way too many negatives and is just a fake star at this point.

Lou Williams with fancier handles.

this is an all time bone head comment bro, and i respect your opinion as much as i disagree with it. You guys basically are taking 1 year coming off major knee surgery and using that 1 year WHICH IS HISTORICALLY FACTUALLY BAD FOR ALL PLAYERS POST OP and applying that to his career.

Youre taking the best Jeff Teague games and comparing it to the worst KI games. Its just dumb.

Go watch that 57 point game that was LAST YEAR. Teague could NEVER do that against Kawahi? Parker? Spurs bigs?

HELL Teague cant even get off a shot with 5 seconds on the clock

Like i said, casual fans wouldn't know, but Kyrie hasn't had 1 major surgery, Kyrie has had 4 surgeries, 2 of them on his knee, and 6 injury stretches total, one of which being a concussion.

The James Harden comparison and bad locker room attitude on and off the court, and selfish play is also something not made up, but this has been reported widely for the last three years about Kyrie.

"Report: Cavs Teammates Unhappy With Kyrie Irving’s Selfish Play..."
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/report-cavs-teammates-unhappy-with-kyrie-irvings-selfish-play/#w1x0dTL4KsCtiM2p.97

[ATLHawksfan21]

I think the casual fan thinks that Kyrie is an elite player, but his defense is way too much of a negative for him and he allows his opponenets to have big games on him on a consistent basis, that its just not worth it. On top of that, Kyrie's health problems are a huge concern. I don't think casual fans knows that he has had knee and ligament problems since high school and college and missed alot of time his one year in college. In addition Kyrie also already gotten the bad reputation in the locker room of being a 'me' player, not passing the ball, and no being a point guard, or basically being the James Harden version of a PG. Kyrie can dribble and can shoot but just has way too many negatives and is just a fake star at this point.

Lou Williams with fancier handles.

this is an all time bone head comment bro, and i respect your opinion as much as i disagree with it. You guys basically are taking 1 year coming off major knee surgery and using that 1 year WHICH IS HISTORICALLY FACTUALLY BAD FOR ALL PLAYERS POST OP and applying that to his career.

Youre taking the best Jeff Teague games and comparing it to the worst KI games. Its just dumb.

Go watch that 57 point game that was LAST YEAR. Teague could NEVER do that against Kawahi? Parker? Spurs bigs?

HELL Teague cant even get off a shot with 5 seconds on the clock

Brandon Jennings, Kemba Walker, Mo Williams, Corey Brewer, Terrence Ross, Andre Miller, Jamal Crawford and Kevin Martin are also members of the 50 point game club. Does that make them superstars who have no weaknesses?

You keep saying 1 year when I have been doubting Kyrie for several years now and his weaknesses have been glaring throughout his pro career.

Injury prone, poor leader, selfish on offense, a SG in a PG's body, terrible defensively. These problems didn't arise this year, they have been following him throughout his pro career.

You are right, Teague can't get a shot off UNLESS he is playing against Kyrie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnL_0vxKjbQ

[xccelerate]

How is this kind of debate even going on?? You take Kyrie almost everytime you can.

Looks like we need to lose several more series and a lot more close games before Hawks fans realize the next step in developing our franchise is acquiring someone with superstar potential. And by then, it will be too late.

Treadmill.

[ATLHawksfan21]

How is this kind of debate even going on?? You take Kyrie almost everytime you can.

Looks like we need to lose several more series and a lot more close games before Hawks fans realize the next step in developing our franchise is acquiring someone with superstar potential. And by then, it will be too late.

Treadmill.

Can you expound on Kyrie's superstar potential? What does he provide outside of looking pretty while scoring?

[atlantabbq99]

How is this kind of debate even going on?? You take Kyrie almost everytime you can.

Looks like we need to lose several more series and a lot more close games before Hawks fans realize the next step in developing our franchise is acquiring someone with superstar potential. And by then, it will be too late.

Treadmill.

Can you expound on Kyrie's superstar potential? What does he provide outside of looking pretty while scoring?

Their is not. He doesn't have a point. Its a very common tactic after stating some facts, if the other person is beaten and can't make any valid points of their own, they just either make some snarky comments or very broad general statements, that has nothing to do with the valid points that was previously made. He is just trying to change the topic as a way not to address the previous points.

[Geaux_Hawks]

You made your point I made mine.

Let's hug it out and watch this elite talented Hawks team lose to the sun's.



FYI I don't care what analytics say, Kyrie is a better player than teague, no question , ever.

People arguing for delevedova over KI are fools

I don't think it's a matter of saying Delly is better than KI, but mainly saying that Delly is a better fit with Lebron than KI.

[PandaKidd]

Yeah but that's coach/lebron problem.

Not KI.

[PandaKidd]

How is this kind of debate even going on?? You take Kyrie almost everytime you can.

Looks like we need to lose several more series and a lot more close games before Hawks fans realize the next step in developing our franchise is acquiring someone with superstar potential. And by then, it will be too late.

Treadmill.

Can you expound on Kyrie's superstar potential? What does he provide outside of looking pretty while scoring?

Strawman.

Maybe we cna bring pero back he was such a better analytical fit than Horford amiright.

Casual fans , hardcore fans, no one takes teague over Irving. Not unless you're an Atlanta Homer.

No one has doubt Irving and his ability. He's been a star for several years it's why he's an all star

[Jamaaliver]

I'm not , its pointless to argue, we will never agree.

This is one of those debates that simply will become more clear...with time.

[ATL Boy]

I'm not , its pointless to argue, we will never agree.

This is one of those debates that simply will become more clear...with time.

Absolutely. Everyone has made their point, people are on both sides of the fence. The best thing right now would be to lock this away in the jamaaliver archives and re-visit it somewhere down the line.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Jamaaliver]

...we would have beaten the Cavs if Love and Irving played. Their biggest weakness was defensively at the 1 and 4. Our best offensive players were at the 1-4. I [can't*] believe you have watched a 1-4 pick and roll against the Cavs and think we wouldn't have been better off with their better offensive team playing versus the elite defensive squad they were able to put out there.

It's nice to see that others get it.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love...Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

So I mentioned a few weeks back that we might gain more clarity on this topic with time...

Ummm...Have we?

Serious question. I couldn't fathom that we thought that after being swept by LeBron and backups...that we'd fair better against LeBron and All Stars.

With 11 straight losses, under two different rookie Head Coaches, is it fair to acknowledge that CLE is simply a better team than ours? Even with a pair of limited defenders playing heavy minutes.

[Jamaaliver]

Many seemed to ignore the original article and assumed things are fine. The latest indicates otherwise and that Irving will want out this off season.

On the original topic, it's clear KI is fitting in pretty well with this adjusted CAVS offense. He is an offensive weapon of elite talent, just approaching his prime and is being deployed properly in a surprisingly efficient system.


Winning cures all, and I now doubt Irving will be shopped at all this summer.

[Vee-Rex]

I will say this: Kyrie steps up his defense in the playoffs. He did it last year (while hurt) and he's doing it this year. He came off a big knee injury that sidelined him for 6 months and had a rough start to the season because of that. However, in the playoffs so far:

24.4ppg, 5.5 apg 47.7%fg, 53%3pt

That's elite talent right there, especially now that he is defending fairly well.

I only posted here because Kyrie is my favorite player in the league (so I'm a homer, I know) but I feel that he is unfairly criticized far too much. I've even heard people say he's nothing more than a shorter Jamal Crawford. He just turned 24. He's still learning a LOT. I can give a lengthy post describing why I feel he's not injury prone either and explain it year-by-year.