Phil and Spero

[stan francisco]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241451/Knicks-Interested-In-Masai-Ujiri-If-Phil-Jackson-Leaves

A less serious post.

1-Leak to the Knicks that we might hire Ujirii to replace Jim Buss as president with long term big money deal. 2-If they'd like us not to do that, they give us Phil back and rip up Spero's contract. 3-Replace Jim with Phil. Let Phil and Kupcake do their thing. 4-Bill McDonald has been a good intermittent sub but Spero is the one to follow this new generation of Laker greats. Might as well start now. Order restored in Laker world.

[DNP-Old]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241451/Knicks-Interested-In-Masai-Ujiri-If-Phil-Jackson-Leaves

A less serious post.

1-Leak to the Knicks that we might hire Ujirii to replace Jim Buss as president with long term big money deal. 2-If they'd like us not to do that, they give us Phil back and rip up Spero's contract. 3-Replace Jim with Phil. Let Phil and Kupcake do their thing. 4-Bill McDonald has been a good intermittent sub but Spero is the one to follow this new generation of Laker greats. Might as well start now. Order restored in Laker world.

Why on earth do you want Phil back? He is a HOF COACH that no longer coaches....

[stan francisco]

I'd take Phil as president or GM over Jim any time of the day. Mitch or Phil can take Jim's seat tomorrow and both beat him by horse lengths in their first year. I'd love Phil back in the organization. Like Kobe said, "Phil knows more about basketball than all of NY put together".

Again, half kidding around with this as I see no substance to this "rumor" of Phil leaving NY...

[Kilroy]

I think if Phil comes back, he's going to want to bring Rambis with him... This allows him to participate in Coaching without actually coaching...

Phil is a 'blood in the water' negotiator. If we open the door for him at all, he's going to try to drive a freight train through it. He'll ask for tons of money and control, along with the removal of lots of guys we recently hired/promoted?
Wonder how West's kid would get along with Phil?

There's a strong argument to be made that the original Hiring of Phil may have been the first mistake the Lakers made. He was a caustic presence that eroded a lot of the momentum and greatness in our Front Office... And every time we extended that relationship seemed to damage our future more.

Part of me really likes Phil Jackson... I credit him for turning our super talented Core of Kobe and Shaq into champions... But part of me also worries what bringing him back and handing over the keys to the franchise to him, would do to our dreams of greatness.

Has Phil ever shown he has any clue how to BUILD a champion?

[Slava]

If you get Phil, you won't have Mitch.

[stan francisco]

If you get Phil, you won't have Mitch.

If that's the case, I love Mitch and West 2.0 enough to then give up on Phil and resort to hoping for a Spero return when his contract is up. As long as Jim and Scott go away, I'll have faith.

[stan francisco]

I think if Phil comes back, he's going to want to bring Rambis with him... This allows him to participate in Coaching without actually coaching...

Phil is a 'blood in the water' negotiator. If we open the door for him at all, he's going to try to drive a freight train through it. He'll ask for tons of money and control, along with the removal of lots of guys we recently hired/promoted?
Wonder how West's kid would get along with Phil?

There's a strong argument to be made that the original Hiring of Phil may have been the first mistake the Lakers made. He was a caustic presence that eroded a lot of the momentum and greatness in our Front Office... And every time we extended that relationship seemed to damage our future more.

Part of me really likes Phil Jackson... I credit him for turning our super talented Core of Kobe and Shaq into champions... But part of me also worries what bringing him back and handing over the keys to the franchise to him, would do to our dreams of greatness.

Has Phil ever shown he has any clue how to BUILD a champion?

You make many good points. It remains to be seen how good a builder of teams he is. He killed in the draft with Porzingis. He is indeed a proven fracturing personality as much as he is proven zen.

One thing we know about Phil is that he knows tons about basketball. Another is that he is really good at pretending he doesn't. I wouldn't be shocked if he soon has a great NYK team.

[ArC_man]

Phil hasn't married Jeanie yet because he's already married to the triangle.

[DNP-Old]

I think if Phil comes back, he's going to want to bring Rambis with him... This allows him to participate in Coaching without actually coaching...

Phil is a 'blood in the water' negotiator. If we open the door for him at all, he's going to try to drive a freight train through it. He'll ask for tons of money and control, along with the removal of lots of guys we recently hired/promoted?
Wonder how West's kid would get along with Phil?

There's a strong argument to be made that the original Hiring of Phil may have been the first mistake the Lakers made. He was a caustic presence that eroded a lot of the momentum and greatness in our Front Office... And every time we extended that relationship seemed to damage our future more.

Part of me really likes Phil Jackson... I credit him for turning our super talented Core of Kobe and Shaq into champions... But part of me also worries what bringing him back and handing over the keys to the franchise to him, would do to our dreams of greatness.

Has Phil ever shown he has any clue how to BUILD a champion?

You make many good points. It remains to be seen how good a builder of teams he is. He killed in the draft with Porzingis. He is indeed a proven fracturing personality as much as he is proven zen.

One thing we know about Phil is that he knows tons about basketball. Another is that he is really good at pretending he doesn't. I wouldn't be shocked if he soon has a great NYK team.

He backed into Porzingis. He would have taken any of the three that went above him if he had the opportunity. Not that any of those would have been bad choices, Just not giving credit for taking the last of what was considered the top four picks...

[stan francisco]

Some claim Porzingis should've gone higher, based on how he has played this season.

[DTouch]

Some claim Porzingis should've gone higher, based on how he has played this season.

That is true but also playing hindsight game....just look at all the boo's and crying knick fans did when his name was announcec by silver

[MAMBAEMD]

I love Phil for what he did for us when he was here as a coach.
But he is done as a coach.
And I never felt he would make a good GM or in any capacity running basketball operations.

I don't want him back here, in any capacity, other than maybe being Jeanie's husband.

[DTouch]

If you get Phil, you won't have Mitch.

I think its time to move on from mitch too.....his approach to fa is still old school way of thinking. Its big star or bust, which is fine but he doesn't seem to consider basketball side approach....i.e Alridge fa pitch was mainly based on outside opportunities thus the embarrassing report that they had to beg for a 2nd presentation. I bet they threw same pitch st Howard

[gts1]

If you get Phil, you won't have Mitch.

I think its time to move on from mitch too.....his approach to fa is still old school way of thinking. Its big star or bust, which is fine but he doesn't seem to consider basketball side approach....i.e Alridge fa pitch was mainly based on outside opportunities thus the embarrassing report that they had to beg for a 2nd presentation. I bet they threw same pitch st Howard

Because that's all they had to sell at that moment, Aldridge isn't an idiot and I'll bet his agent is pretty sharp too.. You can't sell a guy on something you don't have to offer so you sell what you can.. with the improvement from the kids this season, cap space they have to work with and a possible top draft pick this summer any sales pitch this summer will be night and day different than last season

as for Jackson hands down agree with Kilroy's sentiments... He was great for the first run but his behind the scenes political games eroded the franchise not unlike they did in Chicago. As a GM or President he has done nothing in NY that makes you say OK we can put up with the BS because the end result will be worth it. For gods sake there's rumors he's thinking of installing Rambis in a permanent head coach. Was Jackson blind to his Minnesota coaching run or does having a crony in there trump having somebody in there who knows what he's doing... Look at his coaching hires so far, he made a run at Kerr ex-player, then hired Fisher who had never coached and now Rambis as interim with a possibility of taking the interim tag off, Jackson is looking at hiring yes men not the best men

[DTouch]

If you get Phil, you won't have Mitch.

I think its time to move on from mitch too.....his approach to fa is still old school way of thinking. Its big star or bust, which is fine but he doesn't seem to consider basketball side approach....i.e Alridge fa pitch was mainly based on outside opportunities thus the embarrassing report that they had to beg for a 2nd presentation. I bet they threw same pitch st Howard

Because that's all they had to sell at that moment, Aldridge isn't an idiot and I'll bet his agent is pretty sharp too.. You can't sell a guy on something you don't have to offer so you sell what you can.. with the improvement from the kids this season, cap space they have to work with and a possible top draft pick this summer any sales pitch this summer will be night and day different than last season

as for Jackson hands down agree with Kilroy's sentiments... He was great for the first run but his behind the scenes political games eroded the franchise not unlike they did in Chicago. As a GM or President he has done nothing in NY that makes you say OK we can put up with the BS because the end result will be worth it. For gods sake there's rumors he's thinking of installing Rambis in a permanent head coach. Was Jackson blind to his Minnesota coaching run or does having a crony in there trump having somebody in there who knows what he's doing... Look at his coaching hires so far, he made a run at Kerr ex-player, then hired Fisher who had never coached and now Rambis as interim with a possibility of taking the interim tag off, Jackson is looking at hiring yes men not the best men

Pitching outside factors is all they been doing. A blind man can see that today's player can get lucrative ventures playing anywhere and wasnt just outside opportunities, according to reports mgmt didn't know how to answer Aldridge questions about basketball related issues such as how they could play him, x's and o type questions

[indilakeshow]

I think if Phil comes back, he's going to want to bring Rambis with him... This allows him to participate in Coaching without actually coaching...

Phil is a 'blood in the water' negotiator. If we open the door for him at all, he's going to try to drive a freight train through it. He'll ask for tons of money and control, along with the removal of lots of guys we recently hired/promoted?
Wonder how West's kid would get along with Phil?

There's a strong argument to be made that the original Hiring of Phil may have been the first mistake the Lakers made. He was a caustic presence that eroded a lot of the momentum and greatness in our Front Office... And every time we extended that relationship seemed to damage our future more.

Part of me really likes Phil Jackson... I credit him for turning our super talented Core of Kobe and Shaq into champions... But part of me also worries what bringing him back and handing over the keys to the franchise to him, would do to our dreams of greatness.

Has Phil ever shown he has any clue how to BUILD a champion?

Maybe... but how do you measure success? Without Jackson do you get 5 rings? It didn't seem like they would have--the struggled with Del Harris and Rudy T. You may be right in the sense that he pushed out Jerry West, but what guarantee is there that West would have found a championship caliber coach?

All that is to say that I think sometimes we fall in love with potential rather than the result and I think that's a large part of the sentiment you're describing here. Would bringing in Jackson ruin our front office? Probably. But to many, they don't deserve to be there anyways.

[indilakeshow]

Also, Spero ain't coming back. He says he has his dream job now.

[LAKESHOW]

At this point, someone from the Buss family needs to commit the ultimate sacrifice. You know...that thing the Samurai do when they have shamed themselves and the clan.

[Kilroy]

I'm not crazy about some of the decisions made since our last championship, but if you think about it, it's only been 6 years, and the championships since then have mostly been devided between LeBron and Duncan... And outside of LeBron and the Spurs Org, there's a pretty steep drop off in talent throughout the league...
Kobe being in steep decline and with there being no legit title contending talent available since then, along with the CBA changes, and I honestly struggle to come up with a combination of events or an orchestrator of those events, that would have left us in too much better of a situation...

Blame the Buss family if it makes you feel better, but I think it would be naive to think that simply swapping Jim Buss for another Pres of BBall Ops is going to result in an instant turnaround... In fact, I'd say the best bet we have to contend has to do with our most recent draft picks, which you'd have to give some credit to the Buss family for. And if any of those guys bust, it won't matter too much who's captain of the ship, it's still not going to be a victory cruise.

[gts1]

I'm not crazy about some of the decisions made since our last championship, but if you think about it, it's only been 6 years, and the championships since then have mostly been devided between LeBron and Duncan... And outside of LeBron and the Spurs Org, there's a pretty steep drop off in talent throughout the league...
Kobe being in steep decline and with there being no legit title contending talent available since then, along with the CBA changes, and I honestly struggle to come up with a combination of events or an orchestrator of those events, that would have left us in too much better of a situation...

Blame the Buss family if it makes you feel better, but I think it would be naive to think that simply swapping Jim Buss for another Pres of BBall Ops is going to result in an instant turnaround... In fact, I'd say the best bet we have to contend has to do with our most recent draft picks, which you'd have to give some credit to the Buss family for. And if any of those guys bust, it won't matter too much who's captain of the ship, it's still not going to be a victory cruise.

there was a price to be paid for winning 5 championships and another two trips to the finals.... The CBA is a main reason climbing out of this hole has taken longer but there were/are other factors too.

In general sooner or later you can't be that successful over that many years without having to pay up sooner or later. They just kept winning and accumulating role playing talent while rebuilding on the fly year after year and that Purple and Gold train kept running down the tracks...The Pau trade really pissed folks off and then CP3...

Honestly I think the CP3 trade goes through and we have a whole other view of the FO but that wasn't going to happen, it was flat out brilliant but the new CBA was designed to stop the Lakers and their ilk, the league wasn't going to allow the Lakers to shoot the new CBA between the eyes that easily

They made that brilliant move, it got rescinded by the league and since then they've been climbing out from behind that 8 ball but they did try... the Nash move up front was more than solid but lady luck threw a wicked curve ball that Nash was never physically able to come back from but that's not the FO fault, freak injury that ended his career for the most part, then Kobe's achilles.. Howard and his whole thing is the only one I had a problem with but it was a rental and you never know, I'd hope a change of scenery would be good for him but as we all know know with Howard scenery has nothing to do with it...

It really was an accumulation of things, much of it out the FO's hands some of it from decisions that looked good up front but hindsight tells us differently others just bad decisions.. Dr Buss had more than his share of those in his time

As for Spero that ship sailed long ago, he had much bigger plans in life than being the Lakers play by play man.. he's got that big fat CBS contract in his pocket doing the NFL which is something he had always had his sights set on, he never wanted to be a one sport one team announcer.. great talent, really will be considered one of the best when his days are done