Official "Hire Sam Hinkie" Thread

MartinToVaught · Post #1 » by **MartinToVaught** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 12:17 am

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/717865209449218048[/tweet]

Hinkie understands analytics and isn't emotionally attached to bad players like Jamal and Austin Rivers. He walked into a bad situation in Philly and got some bad breaks in the lottery, but they do have some young talent to look forward to because of him. It's time for Doc to be banned from the front office. It's time to hire a legit GM. #HireHinkie

Post #2 » by **og15** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 1:28 am

I don't know, it's hard to really know his true philosophies as a GM and if he also has a good grasp of the chemistry building aspects of developing a team. His stint in Philly was quite a hard one to use to really know where he stands as a GM.

nickhx2 · Post #3 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 1:29 am

i'd say it tells you literally nothing about whether he can build a team beyond optimally acquiring long term assets.

Ranma · Post #4 » by **Ranma** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 2:49 am

Relieve Doc Rivers of GM and/or coach duties: Yes. Hire Sam Hinkie: No. He's been good with asset accumulation in terms of acquiring draft picks, but tanking and drafting misfits doesn't portend to building a winner during his tenure. I'll concede that he left the Sixers in better shape than when he arrived but that's not really saying much.

Ranma · Post #5 » by **Ranma** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 4:24 am

Read on Twitter

nickhx2 · Post #6 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 4:36 am

he most definitely did not want to go quietly

Dynamix · Post #7 » by **Dynamix** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 5:00 am

Pass. I have zero confidence that Hinkie would be the right guy to help us rebuild when that time comes. He just wanted to get out before someone else showed him the door.

Philly is a bad joke that's been going on for way too long. There's tanking and then there's whatever the hell they were doing. Other teams have done a way better job rebuilding in less time, without being the league's laughing stock, and have a much brighter future ahead.

Forte IV · Post #8 » by **Forte IV** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 5:37 am

Oh please no. The man spent 3 years trading players for endless amounts of picks and spent 3 years singing bad d-league talent. He didn't even have good young talent. Just plain bad d-league talent then has the nerve to step down. NO thank you.

Post #9 » by **QRich3** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 10:09 am

lol @ "he knows analytics" :lol:

I don't know what people think analytics are, sometimes I get the feeling most fans think it's some sort of black box that contains some magic stuff with the formula for winning.

Hinkie is just the same type of stubborn, stuck-in-his-ways person that Doc is, just with opposite ideas. We really have no clue how he'd fare in a winning situation, he barely even got to experience that in Houston.

I gotta say I'm disappointed though, I was curious to watch how his process ended in Philly.

madmaxmedia · Post #10 » by **madmaxmedia** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 3:42 pm

No. He would trade Chris Paul for a 10 2nd round picks, cap flexibility, and a bag of magic beans.

madmaxmedia · Post #11 » by **madmaxmedia** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 3:47 pm

QRich3 wrote:lol @ "he knows analytics"
I don't know what people think analytics are, sometimes I get the feeling some fans think it's some sort of black box that contains some magic stuff with the formula for winning.

Hinkie is just the same type of stubborn, stuck-in-his-ways person that Doc is, just with opposite ideas. We really have no clue how he'd fare in a winning situation, he barely even got to experience that in Houston.

I gotta say I'm disappointed though, I was curious to watch how his process ended in Philly.

I feel the same way. But if you think about it, whether it worked out or not doesn't really tell us anything about the viability of the super tank, because it's only a sample size of 1. 5 teams could pursue that strategy, with all different results based on external circumstances. You could pursue that strategy and end up with 2 Lebron's, or 2 Embiid's that barely play.

I do think the rules should be tweaked to disincentive multiyear tanks, because it's sort of an ugly thing to watch play out.

MrHill · Post #12 » by **MrHill** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 4:05 pm

LMAO...I can't take this seriously.

The day Sam Hinkie, Daryl Morey, or any these stat geeks that never picked up a basketball any time in their life come here to run the Los Angeles Clippers is the day I stop being a fan. I don't care for analytics, because I think it's all contrived BS. I don't mind Doc having his decision-making being taken away (or lessened), but I rather have a REAL basketball person running this team than some nerd that can manipulate some numbers to build a team.

nickhx2 · Post #13 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 5:21 pm

i don't know if hinkie is the guy you want for this team but i loved his approach in philly and was hoping to see it come to fruition.

the sad thing is that if they turn it around next season (which will pretty much occur by default because embiid's coming back and they will get 1-2 top picks, some idiots are going to attribute that to bryan colangelo.

you know, i kind of hope that they do turn into that real young up and comer just for JC's kid to sign WAY too many terrible deals and screw it up all over again. just to show the 76er owners what a giant mistake they made.

BlzMwt · Post #14 » by **BlzMwt** » Thu Apr 7, 2016 8:16 pm

would we even be having this conversation if:

1) Embiid was healthy

2) They don't draft Okafor, instead drafting KAT or Porzingis. OR Okafor doesn't have the off-court issues, isn't as much of a black hole on offense or liability on D

Obviously this is the crux of his strategy anyways, taking the chance with the draft. But my point is, how unlucky he was with these two picks and if things had of gone slightly differently, he wouldn't be regarded in the way that he is.

Ish Smith, Covington, Saric, Nerlens Noel, Healthy Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns plus a top 3 pick from this draft is a solid core to build upon. Looks just as good as what people are promising for the t-wolves in the next few years. Plus the 23 + 27th pick in this draft and plenty of cap room for possible free agents when everyone's looking to get paid this summer and next.

You make a few moves and that team makes the playoffs next season and Hinkie is regarded as a successful GM.

But to reiterate what others are saying, we have no idea how he would manage a team that wasn't tanking.

madmaxmedia · Post #15 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:04 pm

Well, he chose Embiid knowing the injury risk, so I would say that is on him. So is getting Okafor. Hinkie will probably be the first to tell you that he is accumulating more 'chances' than everyone else, but that it will all still come down to chance.

That being said, the Sixers could have a big offseason with a haul of picks and a shot at getting both #1 and #4 picks.

I think his strategy is absolutely valid from a game theory perspective, and may still turn out reasonably successful in Philly. But I question whether it's good for the sport, and think the rules should be tinkered to disincentivize multi-year tank strategies.

madmaxmedia · Post #16 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:10 pm

og15 wrote:I don't know, it's hard to really know his true philosophies as a GM and if he also has a good grasp of the chemistry building aspects of developing a team. His stint in Philly was quite a hard one to use to really know where he stands as a GM.

I guess his argument would be that in the first phase, you focus on acquiring/maximizing assets, even if the roster is not ideally composed. Because if you generally just draft best player available, you can always trade good young players later when you are start to have a team that can actually make the playoffs.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have handled the roster like Morey, basically not knowing when to stop tinkering. Chemistry is a lot more important in basketball than baseball, and I think it's no coincidence that analytics really blew up in baseball first.

nickhx2 · Post #17 » by **nickhx2** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 4:49 pm

well from all accounts i know of, hinkie didn't want okafor. he wanted porzingis, so if it's indeed true that part isn't on him. and the embiid thing was really all part of the plan anyway. the guy was clearly one of the best and most talented players of that draft. and him being out for one year was like gravy because they planned on tanking again.

so to me embiid was fine and okafor was not really on hinkie.

Post #18 » by **og15** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:15 pm

Yea, I'm not saying that his plan was necessarily bad in Philly or that he was a bad GM. My only issue is that we can't have the grass is greener mentality. We also have to remember that we are dealing with people here. You have to have a solid plan if you're going to be stripping Doc of his primary role in basketball operations. A guy like Hinkie who no one really knows how well he can build a contending team, I don't think you set up a good situation if you insert someone like him as the GM with decent autonomy where Doc isn't pulling the strings.

He's a guy you could add as an advisor. For example, Boston has Ainge as their GM, but they have 3-4 other analytics guys doing a large amount of work for them. Hinkie could have a role like that.

madmaxmedia · Post #19 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 7:26 pm

nickhx2 wrote:well from all accounts i know of, hinkie didn't want okafor. he wanted porzingis, so if it's indeed true that part isn't on him. and the embiid thing was really all part of the plan anyway. the guy was clearly one of the best and most talented players of that draft. and him being out for one year was like gravy because they planned on tanking again.

so to me embiid was fine and okafor was not really on hinkie.

Was he overruled on last year's pick? I hadn't read that.

Embiid is a classic Hinkie pick whether it turns out great or terrible. Since they were in the middle of the tank, losing Embiid for a year (as with Noel) or so would be totally acceptable to him as long as the long-term prognosis was good. So that remains to be seen.

They also have Dario Saric eventually coming as well. So with just a little fortune, they could conceivably have 4 new top 5 picks on the team next year (their pick, Laker's pick, Embiid, Saric.) Whether it will have all been worth the multi-year tank is another question.

nickhx2 · Post #20 » by **nickhx2** » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:04 pm

well considering that the team was working with with an abysmal level of talent after tony dileo decimated the franchise, i'd say absolutely it was worth the multi year tank.

they started at less than ground zero. now they have unlimited cap space to add decent vets, and tons of youth, talent, and picks. and it's only been 3 years. i'd say their situation is sure a hell of a lot better than, say, the wolves who were blindly awful for basically 10 years until they lucked into wiggins and towns.